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Intresting CvS2 vs. SFA3 Accuracy in Movements (Read 4085 times)

Started by hjk, August 05, 2007, 04:51:14 pm
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Intresting CvS2 vs. SFA3 Accuracy in Movements
#1  August 05, 2007, 04:51:14 pm
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OK well today I went back and compared CvS2 with SFA3 and I noticed some things that didn't seem to translate into mugen creations.


In Mugen a lot of what I've seen in CvS2 and SFA3 chars are SFA3 chars moving faster than the CvS2 ones.




This actually shocked me because I just didn't expect it:

Note this does not apply to Haohmaru


CvS2 chars actually cycle faster through their frames than SFA3 chars, both generally and when attacking, BUT excluding when walking.

I tested this in two ways.
Creators tend to (correct me if I'm wrong), create the characters based on the game they come from's fastest speed. Because of this I tested them at normal, at the speeds where the jump animations seemed closest (from the start of the jump to the finish), and at the game's fastest speeds AND ... Yep, the CvS chars went faster than the SFA3 ones...Shocker, indeed :yes:.

I had formerly thought that the AIR animations were being quickened for some CvS chars to ensure that they would be more likely to win or else have an advantage during fights.
Now I see that maybe in Mugen there seems to be a kind of unwritten code between some creators that CvS2 chars should move a bit too slow to allow for more balance, potentially in conversion battles (I.E. CvS vs. SFA/CvS vs. Garou). That was a joke BTW

But really CvS chars seem to be moving a bit too slow XD. Even Waru's, Rei's, ad Gal129's chars, SHOCKINGLY may be moving a little slower than in CvS.

My opinion on this though, is that to make this change would be to sacrifice balance in Mugen. As it already stands, for an SF3 char with competetive AI to beat a CvS char, that SF3 char would either have to be worked on so much harder, have 'not necessarily fair' states, or become inaccurate moving through or else skipping frames.



Contrary to the accuracy statement, I actually think that the CvS, KOF, SvC, etc. chars should be slowed down to provide more balance for mugen as a whole but not slowed down so much taht the chars just seem 'dead inaccurate' and unappealing. But that's just my opinion :omg:
LOL, Caddie's the man!! ;)

I'm as real as the runnin, I just happen to rap, Nigaas London, Japan, and i'm scared of dat tap.

I suggest extending my banning, cuz when I come back, it's gonna be hell. You think I was annoying before, oh man, it's on now :)
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Last Edit: August 05, 2007, 07:42:24 pm by Tee Hee Hee
Re: Intresting CvS2 vs. SFA3 Accuracy in Movements
#2  August 05, 2007, 05:01:52 pm
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lol @ asking for balance in random collection of chars.

hjk

Re: Intresting CvS2 vs. SFA3 Accuracy in Movements
#3  August 05, 2007, 05:18:54 pm
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LOL, Caddie's the man!! ;)

I'm as real as the runnin, I just happen to rap, Nigaas London, Japan, and i'm scared of dat tap.

I suggest extending my banning, cuz when I come back, it's gonna be hell. You think I was annoying before, oh man, it's on now :)
hjk vs. 99% of MFG. I will win.

RIP Poo Bear Tell my Dead Homie isson, for the year my partner.
Re: Intresting CvS2 vs. SFA3 Accuracy in Movements
#4  August 05, 2007, 07:04:15 pm
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Re: Intresting CvS2 vs. SFA3 Accuracy in Movements
#5  August 05, 2007, 07:15:11 pm
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.... What the hell are you talking about?
Re: Intresting CvS2 vs. SFA3 Accuracy in Movements
#6  August 05, 2007, 07:26:57 pm
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Balance or not, this thread was about "accuracy" in character movements, not overall balance between game characters.
Quote
Imagine a zanguief runing to attack ryu, ryu does a quick+kind of weak fast punch and hit the chest of zanguief, will this punch be enough to zanguief say/think \"oh no, this punch hurted a little, I better stop the attack and put my hand on my chest to help contain the pain while ignoring if ryu is going to make other attacks now"


Cenobite 53 said:
If someone isn't able to get girls laid, why buying this exorcist needing piece of retardet piece of bullshit an not wisiting his local red light district. For that money he could  :hump: tons of hookers.

hjk

Re: Intresting CvS2 vs. SFA3 Accuracy in Movements
#7  August 05, 2007, 07:30:12 pm
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Balance or not, this thread was about "accuracy" in character movements, not overall balance between game characters.

There's something called a sidenote. XD

That was my opinion on if CvS chars in Mugen were to be made more accurate... more accurate based on my tests.
LOL, Caddie's the man!! ;)

I'm as real as the runnin, I just happen to rap, Nigaas London, Japan, and i'm scared of dat tap.

I suggest extending my banning, cuz when I come back, it's gonna be hell. You think I was annoying before, oh man, it's on now :)
hjk vs. 99% of MFG. I will win.

RIP Poo Bear Tell my Dead Homie isson, for the year my partner.
Re: Intresting CvS2 vs. SFA3 Accuracy in Movements
#8  August 05, 2007, 07:31:44 pm
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Re: Intresting CvS2 vs. SFA3 Accuracy in Movements
#9  August 05, 2007, 07:33:41 pm
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Balance or not, this thread was about "accuracy" in character movements, not overall balance between game characters.

There's something called a sidenote. XD

That was my opinion on if CvS chars in Mugen were to be made more accurate... more accurate based on my tests.

I worded the second half of my sentence wrong. I meant that it wasn't completely about "balance"... unless I jumped to conclusions again.
Quote
Imagine a zanguief runing to attack ryu, ryu does a quick+kind of weak fast punch and hit the chest of zanguief, will this punch be enough to zanguief say/think \"oh no, this punch hurted a little, I better stop the attack and put my hand on my chest to help contain the pain while ignoring if ryu is going to make other attacks now"


Cenobite 53 said:
If someone isn't able to get girls laid, why buying this exorcist needing piece of retardet piece of bullshit an not wisiting his local red light district. For that money he could  :hump: tons of hookers.

hjk

Re: Intresting CvS2 vs. SFA3 Accuracy in Movements
#10  August 05, 2007, 07:37:46 pm
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No worries.

Yes you were right. The side-note did make me seem to get a little off track; sorry about that.

The thread is about accuracy and should have stuck to that.

I'm going to keep the part about my opinion on whether this change (making CvS2 chars faster) should be made or not there, because I really don't feel like creating a whole new post and because I want that to be discussed here. ^_^
LOL, Caddie's the man!! ;)

I'm as real as the runnin, I just happen to rap, Nigaas London, Japan, and i'm scared of dat tap.

I suggest extending my banning, cuz when I come back, it's gonna be hell. You think I was annoying before, oh man, it's on now :)
hjk vs. 99% of MFG. I will win.

RIP Poo Bear Tell my Dead Homie isson, for the year my partner.
Re: Intresting CvS2 vs. SFA3 Accuracy in Movements
#11  August 05, 2007, 07:52:48 pm
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there are other means of balancing, besides animation timing. stuff like damage, guard crushing and dizyness can be used for that.

hjk

Re: Intresting CvS2 vs. SFA3 Accuracy in Movements
#12  August 05, 2007, 08:22:44 pm
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there are other means of balancing, besides animation timing. stuff like damage, guard crushing and dizyness can be used for that.

Yep that's very true.

But really, I think it all starts with teh AIR.

I put warusaki3's Ken and Rock against a way overpowered (I edited the CNS power rating) SF3 Alex and they both took the Alex out no sweat. they both had around 75-80% health left before and Alex could only score one one, the invulnerable Hyper that is used while p2 is attacking.

Had I edited the speed on Alex (quickened the AIR), I believe the matches would have been closer.


I had also put waru's ken and rock against a highly quickened PotS's Master Ryu (OLD) and Master Ryu, who formerly could not beat them at all, murdered them in this instance.
LOL, Caddie's the man!! ;)

I'm as real as the runnin, I just happen to rap, Nigaas London, Japan, and i'm scared of dat tap.

I suggest extending my banning, cuz when I come back, it's gonna be hell. You think I was annoying before, oh man, it's on now :)
hjk vs. 99% of MFG. I will win.

RIP Poo Bear Tell my Dead Homie isson, for the year my partner.
Re: Intresting CvS2 vs. SFA3 Accuracy in Movements
#13  August 05, 2007, 08:33:26 pm
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... What does that have to do with anything?

hjk

Re: Intresting CvS2 vs. SFA3 Accuracy in Movements
#14  August 05, 2007, 08:37:49 pm
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... What does that have to do with anything?

Oh no ... It's just a general topic. You don't have to read it if you don't want.


I just thought it was an interesting thing to consider and wanted to see if this effected any creations because cvS chars are pretty popular in our community. ^_^



Unless what you were commenting on was the post just above yours.

Then to that I would reply; there have been many comments about balancing in mugen throughout this post. I mentioned an opinion about making this change in the post I started this thread with, and a discussion has built off of both the matter itself (CvS2 being faster than SFA3) and whether creators should make this change or not concerning balance in mugen (if that can actually exist LOL).
LOL, Caddie's the man!! ;)

I'm as real as the runnin, I just happen to rap, Nigaas London, Japan, and i'm scared of dat tap.

I suggest extending my banning, cuz when I come back, it's gonna be hell. You think I was annoying before, oh man, it's on now :)
hjk vs. 99% of MFG. I will win.

RIP Poo Bear Tell my Dead Homie isson, for the year my partner.
Last Edit: August 05, 2007, 08:43:26 pm by Tee Hee Hee
Re: Intresting CvS2 vs. SFA3 Accuracy in Movements
#15  August 05, 2007, 09:10:36 pm
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Balance can be made, but as with nearly all creators, Dream Bout > Balance.
Quote
Imagine a zanguief runing to attack ryu, ryu does a quick+kind of weak fast punch and hit the chest of zanguief, will this punch be enough to zanguief say/think \"oh no, this punch hurted a little, I better stop the attack and put my hand on my chest to help contain the pain while ignoring if ryu is going to make other attacks now"


Cenobite 53 said:
If someone isn't able to get girls laid, why buying this exorcist needing piece of retardet piece of bullshit an not wisiting his local red light district. For that money he could  :hump: tons of hookers.
Re: Intresting CvS2 vs. SFA3 Accuracy in Movements
#16  August 05, 2007, 10:58:56 pm
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... What does that have to do with anything?

Oh no ... It's just a general topic. You don't have to read it if you don't want.


I just thought it was an interesting thing to consider and wanted to see if this effected any creations because cvS chars are pretty popular in our community. ^_^



Unless what you were commenting on was the post just above yours.

Then to that I would reply; there have been many comments about balancing in mugen throughout this post. I mentioned an opinion about making this change in the post I started this thread with, and a discussion has built off of both the matter itself (CvS2 being faster than SFA3) and whether creators should make this change or not concerning balance in mugen (if that can actually exist LOL).

I honestly don't know what the hell you're talking about seeing as CvS2's default (read: CORRECT) speed is 3-4 stars, which all ACCURATE CvS2 characters I can think of have. Only exceptions are the walk and stance animations in Warusaki's characters since he's clearly stated he uses 1 star for those.

hjk

Re: Intresting CvS2 vs. SFA3 Accuracy in Movements
#17  August 05, 2007, 11:26:51 pm
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Well what I'm saying is that I don't believe that, that is correct.

Play CvS2 really, there is definitely a difference.


Question??

What are stars... ticks?
LOL, Caddie's the man!! ;)

I'm as real as the runnin, I just happen to rap, Nigaas London, Japan, and i'm scared of dat tap.

I suggest extending my banning, cuz when I come back, it's gonna be hell. You think I was annoying before, oh man, it's on now :)
hjk vs. 99% of MFG. I will win.

RIP Poo Bear Tell my Dead Homie isson, for the year my partner.
Re: Intresting CvS2 vs. SFA3 Accuracy in Movements
#18  August 05, 2007, 11:44:22 pm
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Creators tend to (correct me if I'm wrong), create the characters based on the game they come from's fastest speed.
Speaking for myself and most people, the default arcade speed is the usual reference. That means Turbo 2 for SFA3 and 3 stars for CvS2 (which are equivalent IIRC).

Quote
seeing as CvS2's default (read: CORRECT) speed is 3-4 stars
How can you have two "CORRECT" speed settings? :P
Warusaki stated he liked to used speed 4 as reference for most stuff but that's all, a personal preference, doesn't make it correct. H" on the other hand (and according to Warusaki) used speed 3, same as I (except older chars).
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Re: Intresting CvS2 vs. SFA3 Accuracy in Movements
#19  August 06, 2007, 02:16:14 am
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Mainly because I forgot which one. One time I set it to default and it was 4, another time it was 3. :S