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Net Neutrality is in danger.... Again. (Read 19558 times)

Started by _Data_Drain_, November 19, 2017, 01:57:06 pm
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Net Neutrality is in danger.... Again.
#1  November 19, 2017, 01:57:06 pm
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I feel like this is something not nearly enough people are talking about...

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-internet/fcc-plans-to-vote-to-overturn-u-s-net-neutrality-rules-in-december-sources-idUSKBN1DG00H?utm_campaign

If Net Neutrality is killed. Then the internet is gonna be a LOT worse.... Oh, and to those in other countries saying "Oh well, it's only in the US. So this doesn't affect me". That's where you're VERY wrong. A lot of websites are on US servers. And, who's to say this won't spread to other countries?

I don't know how much this right here will help.... But, something needs to be done, and done fast.

https://www.battleforthenet.com/

https://www.change.org/p/save-net-neutrality-netneutrality
Re: Net Neutrality is in danger.... Again.
#2  November 21, 2017, 11:01:59 pm
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this is actually a very serious issue, if you live in the u.s please visit that battle for the net website and register your number.
please don't take this lightly, if net neutrality is gone then your isp will force you to pay extra for "website packages" just like premium cable. if for example your internet subscription doesn't include youtube or netflix, they can and they will slow it down on you to the point its unwatchable.
spread the message around.
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Re: Net Neutrality is in danger.... Again.
#3  November 22, 2017, 07:00:30 pm
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Still relevant, even months later
Re: Net Neutrality is in danger.... Again.
#4  November 22, 2017, 07:51:50 pm
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Hey.

Current W.I.P: Human RM
Re: Net Neutrality is in danger.... Again.
#5  November 22, 2017, 07:52:24 pm
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I must be one of the few who isn't feeling the frenzy of it all.

I don't mean this to sound edgy or pessimistic, but the reality is we either allow large, unlikable telecoms to rule the internet (fuck Comcast). Or we allow the government, who writes things in the interest of these large telecoms, to keep control (old but good article against net-neutrality).

Great choices, prefer the former btw. On a more humorous note.

https://www.battleforthenet.com/

Reddit learned that this website is backed by an outfit of Open Society Foundations, headed by the one and only George Soros. I laughed. :)
Re: Net Neutrality is in danger.... Again.
#6  November 22, 2017, 09:48:48 pm
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Net neutrality can't be taken down without a plan to put in it's place.  Giving more power to other companies over the throttle of the Internet isn't a very comforting thought.  It isn't to say that government having control over the net is a good idea either.

Edit: not erasing what I said before.

How about this: we currently pay about 50$ for complete use over the internet.  That includes access to any and all sites.  Say if NN gets pulled, now not only do we have to pay for internet, we also have to pay for use of certain sites as well, and not just optional things like access to YouTube shows through YTRed or express shipping through Amazon Prime.  Now if we want quality video playback we have to pay for it (oh, you want to view a video above 360i?  Well, you gotta get YTHD View which is 5$ a month) and if we want to buy more items we have to pay if an item limit is reached (oh, you can only buy five things a month, but if you get Amazon Unlimited Cart, you can have more items delivered for 10 bucks a month).

The idea of this scares people.  I wanna know if that could happen or not if NN gets canned.  I'm not saying it will, but companies having more power than what they have now isn't comforting.
Last Edit: November 22, 2017, 11:28:39 pm by The Sudden Rarity
Re: Net Neutrality is in danger.... Again.
#7  November 23, 2017, 05:19:02 am
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Anyone who's outed as excessively harming the customer experience would face backlash from consumers, lose out on money (something they don't wanna do), and/or open themselves to legal action. Too bad the Republicans would just give handouts to the giant telecoms if it were to ever get to that point.

I know Vgames made himself out as a moron here, but he was right (by accident is arguable) about the importance of a free market that isn't stifled by regulations. Additional regulations means new players need to hire lawyers to help them comply with the regs, which means less money for actual innovations and other expenses. Assuming they bother to enter in the first place. These smaller ISP's would at least be closer to the illusion of hope without Title II.

Yeah it opens the door for Comcast and Verizon to buttfuck consumers. But they can't stop consumers from finding another ISP if shit hits the fan. The internet never had or needed Title II throughout it's history and has grown just fine. I'm not a genius by any stretch, but I doubt that ending Title II would equal the end of the internet as we know it.
Re: Net Neutrality is in danger.... Again.
#8  November 23, 2017, 05:56:39 am
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You can't really find other cable options in your area as is. And the number of net providers isn't much higher. Or at least I've never seen a cable company that had a rival. It's like electric or water. You get 1 option so you have to pay whatever they want.
Re: Net Neutrality is in danger.... Again.
#9  November 23, 2017, 07:05:45 am
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they won't start their bullshit right away, they'll gradually start charging extra until it becomes a normal thing.
Yeah it opens the door for Comcast and Verizon to buttfuck consumers. But they can't stop consumers from finding another ISP if shit hits the fan. The internet never had or needed Title II throughout it's history and has grown just fine. I'm not a genius by any stretch, but I doubt that ending Title II would equal the end of the internet as we know it.
why put yourself at the mercy of a big isp company? you know whats the most important thing to companies is? profits, and if there are ways to make more of them then you can bet your ass that they will exploit them.
they might not charge as bad as comcast and verizon but they will charge nonetheless, because there is no one who can stop them.
how can you be so apathetic about this?
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Re: Net Neutrality is in danger.... Again.
#10  November 23, 2017, 07:39:42 am
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it's presented as an instant doomsday scenario when it's really not. with net neutrality gone, the worst case scenario is that ISP A will start to be very shitty, so people will flock to ISP B because they don't put website specific data behind packages, because they're competing with ISP A and want to make money. isp b will eventually start to be shitty so people will move on to isp c.  repeat this until the most generous looking isp is a far cry from what we have now. it'll take years, but they'll get there.

i live in a country where net neutrality never existed and ISPs haven't done any of this shit yet, at least not for home internet. maybe they will if they see the business model in america catches on. mobile providers have plans where you get unlimited access to specific social networks. using those apps will not take away from your data plan. if you start an app like the ones includes in these packages you'll be at an instant disadvantage, why use LINE when i can use unlimited WhatsApp? it's not neutral or fair, but nobody here really gives a shit



Oh, and to those in other countries saying "Oh well, it's only in the US. So this doesn't affect me". That's where you're VERY wrong. A lot of websites are on US servers. And, who's to say this won't spread to other countries?
cool, what the fuck am i supposed to do then. american congress won't listen to me (and they absolutely shouldn't) and change.org petitions are laughable. don't involve the rest of the world in this because we can't do shit
Last Edit: November 23, 2017, 07:46:46 am by Titiln
Re: Net Neutrality is in danger.... Again.
#11  November 23, 2017, 08:41:52 am
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how can you be so apathetic about this?

We already have provisions in place to stop people from being abused by anti-consumer policies. Verizon can't just wake up one day and say "we're gonna ban all our users from accessing Netflix today," not without consequence anyway. They can do little inconspicuous things, but that's not stuff Google isn't already doing by manipulating search results in their favor. And Title II didn't stop Verizon from throttling speeds on Netflix anyway, lol. Netflix was doing the same by the way, but they're not bound to Title II rules so they were fine.

Big corporations are going to play dirty, that's just how it is. You don't fix that by making it harder for potential entrepreneurs to enter their ideas into the industry. I'm not saying Net Neutrality isn't important, but Title II isn't the protective shield people think it is.

It's worth reading on when the US government had strict regulations on the phone business back in the 20th century. The appearance of the household phone changed minimally in a span of 30 years, you could probably guess that they weren't turning heads with innovative ideas.

You can't really find other cable options in your area as is. And the number of net providers isn't much higher. Or at least I've never seen a cable company that had a rival. It's like electric or water. You get 1 option so you have to pay whatever they want.

Yeah that's the tough part, there are options but not great ones. There's satellite but that takes forever, and I don't think anyone wants to go back to the dialup days. :0

I think it's a necessary evil to let them have more control, if it means more people can play and get US internet speed up to par.
Last Edit: November 23, 2017, 08:57:55 am by Niitris
Re: Net Neutrality is in danger.... Again.
#12  November 23, 2017, 08:47:27 am
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If you ask me, I'm more focused on the Antitrust lawsuit between the Trump Administration and AT&T, who are currently attempting a mega merger with Time Warner (who owns CNN) and have been anticipating legal troubles for quite a long time now, and it's not AT&T's first time either. Of course, Net Neutrality is just as significant and more. AT&T also has assets belonging to Turner Broadcasting and DirecTV. Also, last time, Comcast also managed to purchase much of NBC back in 2011.

And since AT&T is also indirectly involved with Net Neutrality in a way...I can see this mega merger overshadowing Net Neutrality as well as adding to the fire of the circumstances surrounding Net Neutrality. Overall, people are vying to charge for information, buy information, manipulate information, not to control thought and human behavior, but to grow monopolies, employ proxies and create context.
Re: Net Neutrality is in danger.... Again.
#13  November 23, 2017, 09:02:12 am
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*Deep sigh*
You know I don't know what's worse: the fact that Net Neutrality is on it's last legs here, or that the proposal vote to end it is on my birthday.
All I know is this. The GOP as it stands is obsolete. it has been overrun by greedy idiots that want the country to fall so they can either make a fortune of it or flip it until it becomes a totalitarian nation for the rich.
If net neutrality falls, the overall groundbreaking unconstitutional set of events of big corporate rule will pretty much spread like wildfire, and our net will be downgraded into nothing more than a data plan on a cellphone. Remember AOL Discs? If you want Net Neutrality to fail, do the world a favor and look at Portugal. Ajit Pai is a moron and needs to be removed from the FCC.
Re: Net Neutrality is in danger.... Again.
#14  November 23, 2017, 12:05:33 pm
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I did NOT like what I saw from Portugal. That has got to be the dumbest internet plans I've ever seen. It literally split Google's products and put them into different packages.

The government is going to see the mistake they made in putting Ajit Pai in the seat of FCC chairman. And they're also going to see why it's a terrible idea to put a businessman into the White House as president once they find out how bad the loss of net neutrality affects them, all for the sake of spreading their alternative facts and maintaining their agenda. There will be sacrifices, there will be costs, and they already can't afford to settle an entire country's billions of dollars in debt. I'm going on a tangent, but It'll be a matter of time before the 1.7 trillion dollars accumulated from the Student Loan Crisis causes another economic crash and the debt ceiling is broken.
Re: Net Neutrality is in danger.... Again.
#15  November 23, 2017, 12:31:59 pm
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Net neutrality is essential and there's no way to defend Trump on this one.

Just in case anyone was waiting for my take.
Re: Net Neutrality is in danger.... Again.
#16  November 23, 2017, 01:04:51 pm
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You can't really find other cable options in your area as is. And the number of net providers isn't much higher. Or at least I've never seen a cable company that had a rival. It's like electric or water. You get 1 option so you have to pay whatever they want.

Yeah that's the tough part, there are options but not great ones. There's satellite but that takes forever, and I don't think anyone wants to go back to the dialup days. :0

I think it's a necessary evil to let them have more control, if it means more people can play and get US internet speed up to par.
I don't see how allowing the fall of NN will do this. If anything it'll make larger companies buy out or crush smaller ones before they become a threat. Again, I used cable as an example. I don't want the government to have control either. But the government won't lose any control if they remove NN. Allowing ISPs to throttle and control content will do nothing to advance anything. Heck, even if you can find a small up n coming business there's no guarantee you could get to their website or find them on your net. The potential cons are so much greater than the potential pros.
Re: Net Neutrality is in danger.... Again.
#17  November 23, 2017, 04:31:26 pm
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every part of your comment pissed me off... i swear to god, you are just like that bicycle kid meme.
We already have provisions in place to stop people from being abused by anti-consumer policies.
where are those provisions? the only regulations on the internet are from the fcc and now they're being gutted by ajit.
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Verizon can't just wake up one day and say "we're gonna ban all our users from accessing Netflix today," not without consequence anyway. They can do little inconspicuous things, but that's not stuff Google isn't already doing by manipulating search results in their favor.
off course they're not gonna do that. as i said before, they'll gradually start charging extra until it becomes normal. they'll sugercoat it at first as "ultra fast" internet packages for websites and eventually phase out their old internet plans.
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And Title II didn't stop Verizon from throttling speeds on Netflix anyway, lol. Netflix was doing the same by the way, but they're not bound to Title II rules so they were fine.
the verizon you're talking about is the regulated one, imagine what would an unregulated verizon do.

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Big corporations are going to play dirty, that's just how it is. You don't fix that by making it harder for potential entrepreneurs to enter their ideas into the industry. I'm not saying Net Neutrality isn't important, but Title II isn't the protective shield people think it is.
it isn't? did you know in portugal you have to pay isps just to access whatsapp and facebook? in saudi arabia skype is banned by the saudi telecommunications company because its a free alternative to international calls and in some third world countries news websites are blocked if they cover something that hurts whoever is in charge.
net neutrality shielded you from those shitty practices. 
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I think it's a necessary evil to let them have more control, if it means more people can play and get US internet speed up to par.
it isn't. if you think that NN stifled companies from giving you good internet connection then you're very delusional and naive.
enjoy being your isp's milking cow, if i was a u.s resident i would've done something about this. hopefully this doesn't trickle down on other countries.
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Re: Net Neutrality is in danger.... Again.
#18  November 23, 2017, 04:50:03 pm
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where are those provisions? the only regulations on the internet are from the fcc and now they're being gutted by ajit.

The FTC, contractual agreements? That's just for starters, there were a code of ethics before Title II you know, lol.

And for the record, I'm a real stubborn person. If I don't like a business is doing (I mean we do talk video games here too), I'm more than happy to find an alternative, or adjust to life without it. Enjoy being mad about people who disagree with you though, there's a lot of them out there. :(

I don't see how allowing the fall of NN will do this. If anything it'll make larger companies buy out or crush smaller ones before they become a threat.

The big telecoms buying out smaller ones are independent of whatever happens with Title II or Net Neutrality. I'm talking more about job growth and freed money to invest in technologies.

And that's the other problem, there's this narrative going around (of course) that ending Title II = ending Net Neutrality, which is horribly dishonest because they're not the same thing. Opponents of Title II do believe in Net Neutrality. They don't believe that the government should treat the Internet and Internet packets as a public utility.

The government and FCC also used to regulate radio (and eventually TV) with the Fairness Doctrine in 1949. It was designed to apply "content neutrality" because of limited amounts of frequencies. And the argument among it's supporters is that only they could get people to "fairly" talk about the issues. Problem was they were the ones who decided what "content neutral" meant, discouraging radio outlets to enter politics and the fines they could face from the FCC for having the wrong opinion. It was ultimately decided that it's existence it was a way to skirt around the First Amendment, there's no coincidence that conservative outlets (Fox News included in 1996) couldn't break out until after it was repealed in 1987.

It's easy to feel that it's bad this is being removed because Title II's only been around for two years and hadn't done any notable damage. As much I don't like the big telecoms, I'm even less for the government being in control while still being influenced by large corporate entities, best believe Google and Amazon exploit the existence of Title II to their benefit. Worse case scenario is what Titiln said earlier about shitty business models and 'micro-selling' apps (yeah I've heard about that happening in Portugal too), I'm more concerned about that than blocking websites.
Re: Net Neutrality is in danger.... Again.
#19  November 23, 2017, 05:05:48 pm
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I'm not seeing the correlation between the radio and internet example though. The government nor FCC are fining ppl for what they say on the net. I don't see what you mean about their influence on the internet at all. And to be clear I'm not against whatever Title II is. I haven't even researched it to know. I'm merely discussing the NN thing. If it's not in jeapordy then I don't care as much (due to ignorance of the other things in the package)
Re: Net Neutrality is in danger.... Again.
#20  November 23, 2017, 05:17:19 pm
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Net Neutrality is simply fair and equal treatment across the internet, I don't think anyone here is against that. Title II is the regulation that forces ISPs to treat internet traffic the same. It's a way to enforce net neutrality, but they're not one and the same. One could make the argument that traffic shouldn't be obligated to be equal, allowing businesses to allocate where they want to spend their resources, but my position isn't nuanced enough to elaborate on that.

I brought up the radio/television scenario because it's an example of how well-intended regulations can hamper creativity, innovation, and/or competition.