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Susan Sarandon's WIP thread: Genjuro Kibagami (Read 4880 times)

Started by Not a Blanka player, April 21, 2019, 02:40:00 am
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DW

Re: Susan Sarandon's WIP thread: Genjuro Kibagami
#21  April 25, 2019, 03:14:15 am
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-You're gonna want to add this parameter to all of you slash FX explods:

Code:
removeongethit=1

You may also have to take some extra precautions in State -2 with said slash FX when you start implementing super cancels and all.
Re: Susan Sarandon's WIP thread: Genjuro Kibagami
#22  April 25, 2019, 02:00:43 pm
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- Against which moves? I can't seem to replicate this.

against every move that makes him bounce up from the ground.

bounce below
Spoiler, click to toggle visibilty

stay on the ground
Spoiler, click to toggle visibilty

comparison
Spoiler, click to toggle visibilty
these were just a couple of frames apart.

you can replicate this with Genjuro vs Genjuro just by Kyoyokujin on each other.
Re: Susan Sarandon's WIP thread: Genjuro Kibagami
#23  April 25, 2019, 03:36:06 pm
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Probably not that interesting but there's a special intro with Haohmaru in NGBC. https://youtu.be/Qe1KiJ13S2o?t=43
- !! This is good enough. Thanks!
You're jumping to assumptions. I never said Haohmaru was a faster combo char in CvS. Though he is a fair bit faster than his SS incarnations. Haohmaru is a slower char in the cast, but I disagree that he feels out of place. It's just a different approach you have to take with him. Your Genjuro speed wise, feels alright. That was never a cause for concern. I'm saying his clsns are odd for the format you adapting to, because the game they're pulled from are from that slower paced style. At any rate, don't worry about it too much, you're good. This is something that can be tweaked over time.
- Ye I jumped into assumptions.
NGBC could be used as a good reference. That game was good, albeit a bit boring.
- I have plans for the NGBC content actually. I'm focusing on regular Genjuro right now but I'm gonna add an alternate Bust Mode in the future (like, if I ever work on another character haha), using SS3 as base for normals, having all the missing specials from Bust, and changing the properties of some moves (DP should work as a traditional DP like in NGBC, with toned down velocities and hitboxes on the ground and invisibility, instead of being based on SSVSP).
I guess? Don't remember what group it is. It sounds different from Haohmaru though.
- Gotcha, you're right. Changed the sounds to the CvS ones.
Relax man. You're on the right track as I've already said. Just keep having fun and learning as you go.
- Thanks man, I'm digging this very much even if I have a fuck ton of noob mistakes.
Red hair thing?(Iori) I got nothing now, though why Iori and Sagat specifically? I get Haohmaru. Meh, reasoning isn't important. I'll ponder on it a bit and see if I can come up with something.
- Ye I liked that kind of interactions from CvS, where characters with design similarities had special intros agaisnt each other (Terry vs Ken or Ryu vs Ryo, or Joe and Sagat for example). Sharing red hair and scar seem like a good enough to justify an intro haha.




- Those are quite good palettes man, thanks a lot. Getting a bust vibe from the last one, it looks really good.
Rivals.
Easy = Issen cross over(ngbc dual assault)
Advanced = Choreograph a fight scene(This is the easiest way to have a special intro with any group of characters)
I would also suggest something to do with rage. Idk if you were going to incorporate as a move.

The coolest thing would be the weapon clash, lack of sprites unfortunately.
- Choreographing a fight scene sounds like an alternative, specially for Sagat and Iori. For Haohmaru I'm not sure, I know NGBC is a dream match so it doesn't matter but it always felt a little bit counterintuitive to have rivals to death working together on a final super. But it could work having a boss character in the center on the screen (in the same fashion as Rugal's Guile Statue), and then both samurais applying issen to it before settling things down. Maybe the boss character could be random with many cameos. Gotta think about it, thanks for the idea.
Looking forward to this.

As for intros, I would just add an intro with a Jman char as a little nod, let's say an intro with Jman's chun ?
https://youtu.be/n07MHnzAqg0?t=72
Genjuro is a killer after all so that Chun intro won't be out of place.( I have no idea what chun is saying)

Or maybe an intro with Yamazaki/Geese/Rugal/Akuma/Bison/ something among those lines.
- Ye I definitely want an intro agaisnt Sagat because of them sharing a scar as a core part of their design. Not sure about Chuns but his should be triggering when facing Genjuro maybe? I think that it was coded to trigger agaisnt many evil characters, don't know if Kibagami was one of them.
-You're gonna want to add this parameter to all of you slash FX explods:

Code:
removeongethit=1

You may also have to take some extra precautions in State -2 with said slash FX when you start implementing super cancels and all.
- Yes! Actually when fixing the jumping slashes bug reported by Henry Hero I noticed I didn't add the removexplod states in the -2. I added all of them like this:

Code:
[State -2, Remove s.LP Explod]
type = RemoveExplod
trigger1 = NumExplod(10200) && StateNo != 200
ID = 10200
- Of course changing accordingly to the respective explods. I think that should be enough for them to dissapear when hit, but gotta add later the removeongethit just in case.
- Against which moves? I can't seem to replicate this.

against every move that makes him bounce up from the ground.

bounce below
Spoiler, click to toggle visibilty

stay on the ground
Spoiler, click to toggle visibilty

comparison
Spoiler, click to toggle visibilty
these were just a couple of frames apart.

you can replicate this with Genjuro vs Genjuro just by Kyoyokujin on each other.
- I think I fixed this, I was using the wrong anim. It still seems a little bit weird but should be fixed. Thanks for reporting.


If you guys want to download a more updated version here's the link
https://www.mediafire.com/file/pmi5jjie07dcsn0/Genjuro.rar/file
Still no supers/ex moves, I'm gonna start working on them today. I want to add Issen as a lvl 1 super, I think Chazzanova handled it like Sakazaki's Ryuuko Ranbu, seems like an okay direction to take.

Bust Genjuro's level 3 should be Issen too, but then I might add some properties from SamSho to the Super (like doing damage proportional to the health missing).

Also, I'm tempted on adding suicide as a command. Phantom of the Server had it in his Nakoruru to start the next match with full bar (replicating suicide giving full rage when used).

Thank you all for helping me out.

DW

Re: Susan Sarandon's WIP thread: Genjuro Kibagami
#24  April 25, 2019, 05:08:41 pm
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-I think it'd be OK to make his far cr.MP hit low like Haohmaru's.

-You might as well make s.MK able to cancel into special/supers as well. Since you're using it for his dodge kick variant and it looks like it would allow it regardless. One dodge attack is suppose to knock p2 away. The other is suppose to allow cancelling from. It's too bad he doesn't have any other kicks, because it would have been a lot better to keep that as a command normal.

-Projectiles are still not restricted properly. During the disperse state of the projectile, basically when your var allows you to throw another one, you can constantly keep throwing them during that time(and beyond as long as you keep chucking em out), ignoring the var restrictions entirely.



The idea of a suicide move doesn't sound too appealing imo. I hardly ever find this useful for PotS Nakoruru. Since you build meter from attacking, getting hit, and can even power charge and parry, it's kinda superfluous. Though if you want to, it honestly neither helps nor hinders him, so have at it. Feeling a lot better. Good job.
Last Edit: April 25, 2019, 05:22:16 pm by DW
Re: Susan Sarandon's WIP thread: Genjuro Kibagami
#25  April 25, 2019, 05:19:53 pm
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The idea of a suicide move doesn't sound too appealing imo. I hardly ever find this useful for PotS Nakoruru. Since you build meter from attacking, getting hit, and can even power charge and parry, it kinda superfluous. Though if you want to, it honestly neither helps nor hinders him, so have at it. Feeling a lot better. Good job.
I feel the Suicide has use when you have like 0 power and have no chance of a comeback so you give in at that point for an extra boost next round.
Re: Susan Sarandon's WIP thread: Genjuro Kibagami
#26  April 25, 2019, 07:10:07 pm
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The idea of a suicide move doesn't sound too appealing imo. I hardly ever find this useful for PotS Nakoruru. Since you build meter from attacking, getting hit, and can even power charge and parry, it kinda superfluous. Though if you want to, it honestly neither helps nor hinders him, so have at it. Feeling a lot better. Good job.
I feel the Suicide has use when you have like 0 power and have no chance of a comeback so you give in at that point for an extra boost next round.
The Suicide move in III and IV is used as that, but also you start the next round with your powerbar at full (all the 3 bars in the case of MUGEN). Too bad in V and V Special that doesn't apply anymore (you only start the next round as normal, no full powerbar anymore and in the next games the move was deleted)

Good to see more SS characters are made in 2019, even with it's in CVS-like style (nothing personal, I'm just tired of this "style"), good luck with it, genjuro is a great character and is great to see he receives more love in these days. I hope to make some palettes in these days
Re: Susan Sarandon's WIP thread: Genjuro Kibagami
#27  April 25, 2019, 07:46:37 pm
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Just tested Genjuro he feels nice, I did notice some stuff.

When he uses the DF any punch special the only first hit that chains with the rest of the combo is the light version,
When u use the DF with the mp and hp the first hit does not chain with the 2nd and 3d one.

Dunno if this was by design but I believe its worth reporting.
Also some of the hitboxes that I assume you're gonna tweak when the char is finished are a bit iffy.


Also do you plan to give him a buffer system ?

Again he feels really nice.
Re: Susan Sarandon's WIP thread: Genjuro Kibagami
#28  April 25, 2019, 08:32:23 pm
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Sorry for spaming your thread with palettes.
Just one more. Genjuro cosplaying Geese Howard.

DW

Re: Susan Sarandon's WIP thread: Genjuro Kibagami
#29  April 25, 2019, 09:18:22 pm
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Also do you plan to give him a buffer system ?

He is using it.



-For the slowdown when hitting p2 with heavy slashes; This occurs even if p2 parries it. So, you're gonna want to add a NumTarget stipulation to the slowdown as well.

-For Hyakki Satsu, is it not supposed to cause chip damage? Seems odd, cause it gives p2 meter on block but doesn't cause chip damage.

-This isn't a bug I don't think, but I'm curious: What's the conditions of his projectile sometimes bouncing up from hitting p2, then coming back down to hit them again? I know this is how it worked in one(or multiples) of those SS games, though can't remember them either. Currently, it seems random.

There was something else...but, I can't remember... I'll report back when(if) I remember.
Re: Susan Sarandon's WIP thread: Genjuro Kibagami
#30  April 25, 2019, 11:59:04 pm
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-I think it'd be OK to make his far cr.MP hit low like Haohmaru's.
- Yeah I agree, actually it hits low in source, no way it shoudnt in this conversion.

-You might as well make s.MK able to cancel into special/supers as well. Since you're using it for his dodge kick variant and it looks like it would allow it regardless. One dodge attack is suppose to knock p2 away. The other is suppose to allow cancelling from. It's too bad he doesn't have any other kicks, because it would have been a lot better to keep that as a command normal.
- Done, good to know that. I agree it's a shame that I don't have other kicks for Genjuro :/ he doesn't really have command now besides throws but oh well.

-Projectiles are still not restricted properly. During the disperse state of the projectile, basically when your var allows you to throw another one, you can constantly keep throwing them during that time(and beyond as long as you keep chucking em out), ignoring the var restrictions entirely.
- Now it's 100% fixed, moved the negative ParentVarAdd to Statedef 1008 where the fade anim is already done.
The idea of a suicide move doesn't sound too appealing imo. I hardly ever find this useful for PotS Nakoruru. Since you build meter from attacking, getting hit, and can even power charge and parry, it's kinda superfluous. Though if you want to, it honestly neither helps nor hinders him, so have at it. Feeling a lot better. Good job.
- It's true that with power charge is really redundant to have suicide. I mean of course it could have situational uses but you got me with that argument. I don't think I'm gonna add it.

Thanks a lot for the
-For the slowdown when hitting p2 with heavy slashes; This occurs even if p2 parries it. So, you're gonna want to add a NumTarget stipulation to the slowdown as well.
- Added.
-For Hyakki Satsu, is it not supposed to cause chip damage? Seems odd, cause it gives p2 meter on block but doesn't cause chip damage.
- You're right, added.
-This isn't a bug I don't think, but I'm curious: What's the conditions of his projectile sometimes bouncing up from hitting p2, then coming back down to hit them again? I know this is how it worked in one(or multiples) of those SS games, though can't remember them either. Currently, it seems random.
- The projectile bounces when you hold the attack buton while your opponent is blocking the projectile. About that, it was kinda hard to get the veloticies of the bouncing, and I'm 100% sure that I'm gonna change them because they need a lot of work.

Overall thanks a lot for your feedback, it's been really helpful for developing this character. It shows that you know the system well.

When he uses the DF any punch special the only first hit that chains with the rest of the combo is the light version,
When u use the DF with the mp and hp the first hit does not chain with the 2nd and 3d one.

Dunno if this was by design but I believe its worth reporting.
- That's actually intended, in source you can combo off the light rekkas but not with medium and hard. This is something that carries into SvC if I'm not mistaken. The medium/hard rekkas also crossup when close making a bit of a mindgame about which way you wanna block them (you can go from light Sanrensatsu into light, medium or hard Sanrensatsu2). Thing is, in SamSho the second rekkas make up for the non-chain shit with huuuuge damage buff. Sanrensatsu: Tsuno goes from doing tiny damage to do literally more than Sanrensatsu: Rin. I think I should make changes in order to mimic that, because right now there's not that much incentive for the player to use medium/hard over light rekkas.

Also some of the hitboxes that I assume you're gonna tweak when the char is finished are a bit iffy.
- Actually the hitboxes are partially done. Ye I might make tweaks to make them more cvsish but they're pretty much functional. If you see something weird please report it because I might have ripped some hitboxes wrong.

Also do you plan to give him a buffer system ?
- As said by DW, ye! It uses Jmorphman buffering system (it came form Benimaru, the character that I used as a template.
Again he feels really nice.
- Good to know!

Sorry for spaming your thread with palettes.
Just one more. Genjuro cosplaying Geese Howard.
Dude be my guest. Your pals are fire, would love to see more. If it's not too much to ask maybe one inspired on his 2019 design?

Thank yall for checking this out.
Re: Susan Sarandon's WIP thread: Genjuro Kibagami
#31  April 26, 2019, 10:28:14 am
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Conveying his 2019 attire to this template was kinda tricky. Hopefully you like the result . I tried my best. I've made few more as well.






Last Edit: April 26, 2019, 10:52:39 am by sabockee
Re: Susan Sarandon's WIP thread: Genjuro Kibagami
#32  April 26, 2019, 06:32:07 pm
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Yo Susan here's a small portrait:

HadeS made it,just adapted it to work on your CS
Re: Susan Sarandon's WIP thread: Genjuro Kibagami
#33  April 26, 2019, 08:36:08 pm
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Actually, in Samurai Shodown 5-5 Special the Suicide move resets the timer for rage mode if you are in it. Yeah, being able to throw a round to just have a free touch of death loaded was one of many ideas in Samurai Shodown 4 that wasn't very good so they had to nerf it into that.

In a character that's using meter charge it's redundant but hey it doesn't hurt as an easter egg. I mean, like why use taunts in most fighting games. Not absolutely everything has to have a point.

Also I would at least use SS5sp's hitboxes as the foundation for what you're going with. There are nuances and things people miss when they just make up their hitboxes and it contributes to the overall horrible feeling a lot of customized characters have.

Also DW please play Samurai Shodown. No I'm actually not insulting your feedback at all. It's pretty good really. I just really want you and the entire world to play more of that series :3

Edit: One more thing, since you're using hitbox data I assume you also have that Genjuro aligned to an accurate axis. If you are using accurate axis, make sure the down.bounce offset is set to 0 as it's 20 by default. That usually solves underground floor bounces.

it's because they are already content with what they have done, mugen is not a paying job so as long as the charcter works for a creator that's enough; one's persons crouching while running is another person's change it to pots style.
Last Edit: April 26, 2019, 08:49:52 pm by Alpaca-San

DW

Re: Susan Sarandon's WIP thread: Genjuro Kibagami
#34  April 26, 2019, 08:55:36 pm
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Let me quote myself, because it seems some people are under the assumption I'm telling him to make up all the clsns:

-While using something like SSV as a guideline for range and priority of attacks and his overall clsns is cool, I advise against using them exactly from said game. None of the chars use their hitboxes from another specific/respective game in CvS.

I have played SS. One more than any others, due to owning it on Genesis. Played 2 a good amount as well on arcade. While only playing 3 a handful of times on arcade. That's where it ended for me. I'll probably pick up the new one when it comes out. It's been years since I've played any of them, but that doesn't mean I've never played any of them. Back then though, I wasn't about to pay like $700+ for a Neo Geo console, and I never saw the others on arcade anymore around my living area.

I'll admit I'm not the biggest fan, but it's alright overall. Genjuro was one of my fave chars when he was introduced. As for the suicide, I said there too that if you want to add it, go for it. It really doesn't matter whether you do or don't. That aside, I may provide a pal or 2 later. Along with seeing if I can find his SvC big port. I used to have it, maybe I just can't remember where I put it.
Last Edit: April 26, 2019, 08:59:18 pm by DW
Re: Susan Sarandon's WIP thread: Genjuro Kibagami
#35  April 26, 2019, 09:31:27 pm
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Sounds great !

As for the hitboxes. I understand but the HK ones are a bit iffy, they maybe source accurate but for mugen I would cover my basis.
I suggest taking a Look at a Jman/DW char for similar moves  and adjust if you would like.

I was crap at SS from day one but I really liked the games, KOF ,SF and MVC were the three big things where I lived games like SS were chilling in the BG but were still really loved.

DW

Re: Susan Sarandon's WIP thread: Genjuro Kibagami
#36  April 27, 2019, 05:43:01 pm
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If you go to Cybaster's domain here and go to the hosted section; there you will find a bunch of ports converted by Saikoro. He did all the ports from SvC. You can get Genjuro's port there.

EDIT:

-In regards to the projectile bounce; It should destroy itself when coming into contact with the ground, or something along those lines. As it is now, he's stuck not being able to throw it again for a long time because it just goes underground, but it's technically still there, restricting him from doing it again.

-His special command grab has horrible range. Can't it at least have the range of his basic grabs?
Last Edit: April 29, 2019, 05:30:05 pm by DW
Re: Susan Sarandon's WIP thread: Genjuro Kibagami
#37  April 29, 2019, 12:21:06 am
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@sabockee those are some pretty sick pals. Thanks a lot.
@KOF_HERO_77 That portrait is good enough, thanks. Is too bright atm so I think I'll change the tone.
@Alpaca-San Thanks for the heads up about down.bounce offset. I honestly didn't know that at all.
@PeXXeR I'll look into it. I think that there's even a hitbox that is not used in source because is tiny (thigs might be the one that seems odd).
@DW
- I wanted to ask you about this actually. You see, the trigger
Code:
FrontEdgeDist < -100 || BackEdgeDist < -100
Seems to work just fine for horizontal helpers. I tried changing these for something like TopEdgeDist/DownEdgeDist/UpEdgeDist/BottomEdgeDist. None of these seem to works. I tried googling for the equivalent but didn't had any luck. Do you know what's the correct line? Thanks a lot in advance.
- I'll buff it at least to Benimaru's throw range. I feel you on this one.
Also thanks for the palette, looks nice.
Btw downloaded Saikoro's port, not my cup of tea. Anyway I'm fine with the big portrait that I'm using, I like SSV's art very much. But thanks anyway.

I was unable to code that much these days because of work. Between yesterday's evening and today's afternoon I coded Gokou Zan. It was honestly quite hard, p2 states are a bitch to program but I've done it. It might seem as not a lot of work had been made but to me it was quite a lot. I'm thinking about how to do lvl 2 version, maybe less startup frames and 4 more hits? It would be nice to know how to play fucking hanafuda in order to know if there's any symbolism behind the cards that pop up during moves and make it more coherent in terms of aesthetics. I was also thinking about buffing the move a lot for lvl 2. Gokou Zan is an okayish an move in SSVSP, you can cancel into it from a couple moves for extra damage but is not really good as an anti-air despite how it looks. Maybe giving the move bigger hitboxes and a little bit of range could do the trick.

I'm still not sure about what the lvl 3 should be. There's his Fudajimai fatality from SSV that is quite generic to be honest. SSIV's is an even less interesting autocombo. In SSVI he has this stupid shoryureppa like move that I guess is based on his rekkas from bust genjuro, and is as generic. btw fuck SSVI.

Iseen is an option too, having the move doing more damage the less remaining health Genjuro has. If I don't go with Issen as his lvl 3 move, it will definitely be his lvl 3 on bust mode.

In terms of functionality I think that they're all suited to be Ryoku Ranbu like moves, which is something that I don't enjoy that much because if I keep Issen as a lvl 1 it would mean that there's two of the same kind of moves on the moveset (not something unheard of on fightning games but there's generally something to balance them out in terms of usefulness besides the obvious +meter/+damage vs -meter/-damage).

Just sharing my thoughts, any suggestions would be appreciated. I did not play the 3D games (I played Sen for a couple days but I do not have memories of the game feeling any good).

DW

Re: Susan Sarandon's WIP thread: Genjuro Kibagami
#38  April 29, 2019, 03:49:38 am
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You can use Pos Y to detect when it hits the ground:

Code:
[State #, End]
type = ChangeState
trigger1 = Pos y >=0
value =  ;<--- Your disperse state here

Or just add another trigger to the DestroySelf with the above trigger. If you really want it to go underground, I suppose something like:

Code:
trigger1 = Pos y >= 20

Just increase the Y position to where it'll destroy itself as soon as it reaches the desired position.



As for his supers, buffing Gokou Zan with a bit more range is cool. Though you could actually make it a legit anti air by just making him invulnerable during the active frames, and making it unblockable for p2 in the air. Range wouldn't be that big of a deal, with the aforementioned buffs. Two-four extra hits for the MAX version sounds good enough. It's really the damage that's the most important aspect.

That fatality move looks good enough as is to me for a lv 3. Up to you though. What's that super where he slashes them on the ground multiple times, while those cards show up in a row as p2 goes back from each slash, then he ends it with the straight stab? I'm guessing that his alternate mode or something? I always liked the aesthetics of that move.

Issen could be his Lv3 as well if you wanted to go a simpler route. You could add like a cherry blossom FX to it or something of the like, when connecting with p2 to look cooler. Someone made an edit of Genjuro LONG ago that had an FX like that for Issen. The overall char wasn't very good, though them FX were pretty nice, especially the cherry blossom FX they had on Issen.



Re: Susan Sarandon's WIP thread: Genjuro Kibagami
#39  April 29, 2019, 05:20:06 am
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OK, finally tested Genjuro and this is my feedback, maybe it's not SS-accurate as Arpa or CVS-like accurate that some of the feedback here, but anyway this is what I found:
  • In general he feels heavy and slow, not sure if it's about the JM's standards or the data you put on the char, but it feels heavy on the jump, like he got problems to jump, and he runs very slow. As I played with, Genjuro is a bit faster than that
  • Strong Touha Houyoku Jin doesn't hit the opponent and even passes over him/her. As I remember, every version of this Shoryuken-like move hits the enemy on the ground, not sure if this is the case, but it feels weird
  • For a moment I thought you made at least one move for the Bust move, but I was foolish and nothing happens but a nice palette u_u
  • If this char has a CVS-like system, shouldn't he combine the weak-medium-strong attacks? I barely can combine air attacks with ground ones
  • I was reading about getting the dampering system, but I found this Genjuro makes very few damage in general... or at last I felt that here, since SS chars makes good portion of damages just with normal slashes (just comparing him with CVS2 Haohmaru, for example). Maybe it is balanced for a normal MUGEN character, but for a SS char, it feels like he makes no damage at all IMO
  • I like some combos I could make like air attack -> stand attack -> Sanren Satsu x3 or Touha Houyoku Jin (not the strong one as said above), it works better with weak slash, I could make like 200 in 3-5 hits
That's all I found. In general it's a solid character and I enjoyed playing with him. As a suggestion, you can make the 15-hit manual combo from SSIV as an auto-combo super in some of the modes, would get very cool on him ;)

Also, I made you a palette:

Kuki Tohma from SS Warriors Rage (old Haohmaru in that said said Tohma reminds him to Genjuro, so I use that as reference)
Aaaand... I wanted to make more, but I found bugs in your template:
  • There're dark points in the hair that shared colors with other parts. There's no problem with dark/black colors, but in my case (and also seen in Sabockee's Geese palette), it notices too much. Same thing on the umbrella
  • The white in the headband shares colors with eyes and other parts, I wanted to make totally black (sharing colors with pants), but took me the eyes and other parts. Also in the chibi-Genjuro, the headbans shares with other colors (it is orange in my palette LOL)
  • The white part of the sword has like 3-4 types of white and can't be painted of other colors. Tohma's sword is colored red-to-orange, effect I couldn't make on Genjuro since the template uses other whites on the palette
As I said, I wanted to make more, but those bugs on the palette didn't inspired me much to make more, maybe I'll make more later :P
Last Edit: April 29, 2019, 05:29:04 am by Peter B. Parker
Re: Susan Sarandon's WIP thread: Genjuro Kibagami
#40  April 29, 2019, 01:37:35 pm
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You can use Pos Y to detect when it hits the ground:

Code:
[State #, End]
type = ChangeState
trigger1 = Pos y >=0
value =  ;<--- Your disperse state here

Or just add another trigger to the DestroySelf with the above trigger. If you really want it to go underground, I suppose something like:

Code:
trigger1 = Pos y >= 20

Just increase the Y position to where it'll destroy itself as soon as it reaches the desired position.
Works like a charm, thanks.

As for his supers, buffing Gokou Zan with a bit more range is cool. Though you could actually make it a legit anti air by just making him invulnerable during the active frames, and making it unblockable for p2 in the air. Range wouldn't be that big of a deal, with the aforementioned buffs. Two-four extra hits for the MAX version sounds good enough. It's really the damage that's the most important aspect.
Giving him invulnerability during active frames and unblockable properties agaisnt air p2 sounds good, but here's the hitboxes for lvl 1 (taken from source of course):


This plus the fact that it barely moves (in source it moves about about 24 pixels during startup frames) makes me think that a buff on the hitboxes is needed in order to fill the anti-air duty.

As for the active, I've been playing koi koi last night in order to get an idea of how many hits Genjuro should do. Since Goko is literally the best combination, I will probably need to do either 3 hits with 3 light cards that can make Sanko or 4 hits with the four needed cards to make Shiko.

That fatality move looks good enough as is to me for a lv 3. Up to you though. What's that super where he slashes them on the ground multiple times, while those cards show up in a row as p2 goes back from each slash, then he ends it with the straight stab? I'm guessing that his alternate mode or something? I always liked the aesthetics of that move.
I'm not really sure about the move you're talking about. It sounds like bust version of Goko (present in NGBC) but I'm not sure if you're referring to this super. It might be because I didn't play every single SamSho game. Honestly my forte is on SSVSP and SSII (the very best games of the series IMO, and some of the best fightning games of all times), I also played a lot of SSIV growing up, but not as much as the first two. My desire of making Bust Genjuro more accurate to SSIII comes actually from wanting to learn that game.

Not realted but I love this winpose from SSII haha.



OK, finally tested Genjuro and this is my feedback, maybe it's not SS-accurate as Arpa or CVS-like accurate that some of the feedback here, but anyway this is what I found:
- Who is Arpa? When dming Jmorphman on discord he also mentioned him/her but I didn't have any luck founding the user on the forum.
  • In general he feels heavy and slow, not sure if it's about the JM's standards or the data you put on the char, but it feels heavy on the jump, like he got problems to jump, and he runs very slow. As I played with, Genjuro is a bit faster than that
- He feels as heavy and slow as Haohmaru in CvS2. In source Genjuro has the exact same mobility as Haohmaru (jump frames, both walk speeds) minus the dash speed, where Genjuro is a tiny bit faster, which is way Genjuro has the same basic mobility values as CvS2 Haohmaru.
  • Strong Touha Houyoku Jin doesn't hit the opponent and even passes over him/her. As I remember, every version of this Shoryuken-like move hits the enemy on the ground, not sure if this is the case, but it feels weird
- You're remembering wrong, his strong dp on source goes over most of his oponents (regular size and stupid girl size) on the ground.
  • For a moment I thought you made at least one move for the Bust move, but I was foolish and nothing happens but a nice palette u_u
- I do not have intentions of starting Bust Genjuro right now, I will in the future if I decide to keep coding characters.
  • If this char has a CVS-like system, shouldn't he combine the weak-medium-strong attacks? I barely can combine air attacks with ground ones
- Are you talking about chain combos? If you are, that's MvC, not CvS. Genjuro is by no means supposed to combo weak into medium into strong, that would mean that a confirm from his LP would secure his HP, which either does dino damage of is slandered by a damage dampener. He has Custom Combo anyway.

  • I was reading about getting the dampering system, but I found this Genjuro makes very few damage in general... or at last I felt that here, since SS chars makes good portion of damages just with normal slashes (just comparing him with CVS2 Haohmaru, for example). Maybe it is balanced for a normal MUGEN character, but for a SS char, it feels like he makes no damage at all IMO
- Most of his damage values came from comparing him to Haohmaru from CvS2. Jmorphman divides original CvS2 values by 14.1975308642 if I'm not mistaken. As such, a lot of his power cames from normals, his hp does more damage than most of his specials for example. You might be thinking about his dp doing tiny damage, and while that's true, that's how it is on source (it's actually buffed). The character is consistent in terms of adapting values, and still does a good portion of damage by poking. If you're expecting damage values from SamSho, that would make no sense because I'm not trying to replicate the system (I might in the future).

That's all I found. In general it's a solid character and I enjoyed playing with him. As a suggestion, you can make the 15-hit manual combo from SSIV as an auto-combo super in some of the modes, would get very cool on him ;)
- I'll think about it, but I'm not very fond on auto combos as supers and already have two possible ranbu moves on the works.

Also, I made you a palette:

Kuki Tohma from SS Warriors Rage (old Haohmaru in that said said Tohma reminds him to Genjuro, so I use that as reference)
Aaaand... I wanted to make more, but I found bugs in your template:
  • There're dark points in the hair that shared colors with other parts. There's no problem with dark/black colors, but in my case (and also seen in Sabockee's Geese palette), it notices too much. Same thing on the umbrella
  • The white in the headband shares colors with eyes and other parts, I wanted to make totally black (sharing colors with pants), but took me the eyes and other parts. Also in the chibi-Genjuro, the headbans shares with other colors (it is orange in my palette LOL)
  • The white part of the sword has like 3-4 types of white and can't be painted of other colors. Tohma's sword is colored red-to-orange, effect I couldn't make on Genjuro since the template uses other whites on the palette
As I said, I wanted to make more, but those bugs on the palette didn't inspired me much to make more, maybe I'll make more later :P
Thanks for the palette and thanks for pointing out the mistakes on the template, I'm not experienced doing a palette template to be honest. Doll Genjuro's headband was a mistake on color separation so thanks for pointing it out. Good thing is that the indexes are fine so all the palettes are usable. But about the sword, he is supposed to share the white with eyes and headband.

If someone wants to make a new template using the sff be my guest. If not, using the current one does the job just fine since the indexes are not wrong.