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Marvel Cinematic Universe: Straight Outta Wakanda (Read 1941732 times)

Started by Iced, July 15, 2012, 03:54:44 am
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Re: Marvel Cinematic Universe: Straight Outta Wakanda
#3621  March 19, 2018, 05:39:38 am
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They're called Infinity Gems/Stones because they contain the infinite power: each wields an infinite amount of power over one particular aspect (e.g., time, space, etc.). With all six, one would gain complete omnipotence, omniscience, omnipresence, and so on.

Thanos indeed wants to kill half of the universe, but that doesn't mean that's the only thing the Infinity gems can do. They could just as easily wipe out the entire universe, or fill it with double the amount of life, or turn everyone into popcorn, or make it so that everyone has an Australian accent, or whatever! They are, by definition, infinite!

Yeah, but they are called 'Infinity Stones' not 'Infinite Stones' meaning they control aspects of an 'infinite' universe IE Infinity. You just can't have half of something that is infinite. There is no logic in that. But, like I made it clear in my message, they are using movie logic so there is no point really arguing over it or anything. I'm just going to let my brain go on holiday and have fun with it.

I can't fathom the nightmare that would be a universe where everyone spoke with an Australian accent.

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Re: Marvel Cinematic Universe: Straight Outta Wakanda
#3622  March 19, 2018, 06:08:22 am
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He didn't kill half of infinity, he killed half of all living things in the universe as an offering to Death

That is a finite number of things

He could have killed 2/3 of them or 1/5 of them or 2 of them
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Re: Marvel Cinematic Universe: Straight Outta Wakanda
#3623  March 19, 2018, 12:31:43 pm
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The term infinite doesn't necessarily mean limitless, something humans can't measure in quantity or size can also be called infinite.
When you have such a large amount of money we would deem inexhaustible or just too much to count,
it would also be called infinite, although there must be an definite amount somehow.
It's a human standard.
Saying the universe if infinite is because we can't measure it (or just won't), not because we know for sure it's limitless.

BTW, I love the idea of turning everyone into popcorn.
Re: Marvel Cinematic Universe: Straight Outta Wakanda
#3624  March 19, 2018, 02:40:27 pm
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Humanity isn't infinite. Infinity stones killing half of humanity is nothing strange or weird. It's perfectly logical. Revanto just can't tell the difference between humanity and the universe. Or somehow he made up in his head the idea that Thanos tries to kill everyone but fails.
And even putting that aside, this isn't made up by the movie, it's something that happened years ago in the comics. Obviously people would have pointed it out by now on the Internet if the logic was wrong.

(Also we're fairly sure, not completely sure but fairly sure, that the universe we see in 3D is finite)
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Last Edit: March 19, 2018, 02:43:44 pm by Byakko
Re: Marvel Cinematic Universe: Straight Outta Wakanda
#3625  March 20, 2018, 04:28:32 am
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Wow! I don't really know how to approach this because, again, I mentioned that this was movie (OK, and comic book) logic. It's like arguing over fiction as it were fact.

"The term infinite doesn't necessarily mean limitless,"
Yes, it does. That is the actual meaning of the word.

"something humans can't measure in quantity or size can also be called infinite."
Yes, but then they are not using the term correctly or they are exaggerating. People have the tendency to do that.

"Saying the universe if infinite is because we can't measure it (or just won't), not because we know for sure it's limitless."
Actually, the universe (our real universe) IS by it's own very nature infinite. Things like the law of conservation of energy illustrates this. But you can also figure this out using basic logic. You don't need to understand complex science or math. It's just a matter of common sense.

"BTW, I love the idea of turning everyone into popcorn."
Yeah, but salted or unsalted?

"He didn't kill half of infinity, he killed half of all living things in the universe as an offering to Death
That is a finite number of things
He could have killed 2/3 of them or 1/5 of them or 2 of them"
I can't argue with you here because this is using comic book logic so you are probably right. Thanos wants to "destroy half the universe" which I assume he is referring to 'all living things' as he is trying appease Death. The amount of life in Marvel's universe probably is limited.

"Revanto just can't tell the difference between humanity and the universe."
There is no need to be insulting. Just to be clear, though, Thanos is trying to destroy all life in the universe not just Humanity. Yes, I know it was mentioned in the trailer about half of Humanity....

"Obviously people would have pointed it out by now on the Internet if the logic was wrong."
Maybe it already has been pointed out and the people who mentioned it got shot down by those who couldn't get the concept. I mean, you'd be surprised by how many people on the internet can't understand or won't accept simple ideas or logic.

OK, I just want to make it clear that I'm not trying to insult any of you or say that I'm better than anyone. I don't think I'll bother continuing with this subject because, like I said at the start of this post "It's like arguing over fiction as it were fact. "

Revanto
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Re: Marvel Cinematic Universe: Straight Outta Wakanda
#3626  March 20, 2018, 06:11:19 am
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I feel like there's a lot of crucial miscommunication going on here; I don't think you entirely understand both the nature of the Infinity Gems and what Thanos wants to do/ends up doing with them.

I can't argue with you here because this is using comic book logic so you are probably right. Thanos wants to "destroy half the universe" which I assume he is referring to 'all living things' as he is trying appease Death. The amount of life in Marvel's universe probably is limited.
Thanos doesn't, in fact, want to destroy half the universe. He wants very specifically to kill half of all living beings in the universe: when he actually succeeds at doing this in the comics, he leaves all the planets, stars, and other matter making up the universe completely the same.

Of course, if he chose to, he could've just as easily destroyed half the universe. That's the definition of omnipotence, after all!
Re: Marvel Cinematic Universe: Straight Outta Wakanda
#3627  March 20, 2018, 09:15:39 am
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Just to be clear, though, Thanos is trying to destroy all life in the universeuniverse
No, he wants to destroy half of all living things. And that works out, there's no logic error there. What exactly do you think doesn't work with the concept of living things in the universe being a finite number that can be cut in half

Thanos wants to "destroy half the universe" which I assume he is referring to 'all living things' as he is trying appease Death. The amount of life in Marvel's universe probably is limited.
You say that like you think it's different in the real world.

Maybe it already has been pointed out and the people who mentioned it got shot down by those who couldn't get the concept. I mean, you'd be surprised by how many people on the internet can't understand or won't accept simple ideas or logic.
no, it really is because you're actually wrong.

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Last Edit: March 20, 2018, 09:18:41 am by Byakko
Re: Marvel Cinematic Universe: Straight Outta Wakanda
#3628  March 20, 2018, 11:58:06 am
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Just to be clear, though, Thanos is trying to destroy all life in the universeuniverse
No, he wants to destroy half of all living things. And that works out, there's no logic error there. What exactly do you think doesn't work with the concept of living things in the universe being a finite number that can be cut in half

Oh, I missed that. I meant to say "half" of all life in the universe. My mistake.

Thanos wants to "destroy half the universe" which I assume he is referring to 'all living things' as he is trying appease Death. The amount of life in Marvel's universe probably is limited.
You say that like you think it's different in the real world.

Well, it is. Unless you have evidence that proves otherwise.

Maybe it already has been pointed out and the people who mentioned it got shot down by those who couldn't get the concept. I mean, you'd be surprised by how many people on the internet can't understand or won't accept simple ideas or logic.
no, it really is because you're actually wrong.

Based on what exactly?

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Re: Marvel Cinematic Universe: Straight Outta Wakanda
#3629  March 20, 2018, 12:11:56 pm
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I feel like there's a lot of crucial miscommunication going on here; I don't think you entirely understand both the nature of the Infinity Gems and what Thanos wants to do/ends up doing with them.

I can't argue with you here because this is using comic book logic so you are probably right. Thanos wants to "destroy half the universe" which I assume he is referring to 'all living things' as he is trying appease Death. The amount of life in Marvel's universe probably is limited.
Thanos doesn't, in fact, want to destroy half the universe. He wants very specifically to kill half of all living beings in the universe: when he actually succeeds at doing this in the comics, he leaves all the planets, stars, and other matter making up the universe completely the same.

Of course, if he chose to, he could've just as easily destroyed half the universe. That's the definition of omnipotence, after all!

The funny thing is that there is a mixed message from different sources because, yes, in the comic, he wants to wipe out half of all living things to impress Death and yet in the trailer Gamora says that he wants to wipe out 'half of the universe'. The universe refers to all things, both living and not living.

The main reason I posted my original message was because of the glaring contradiction in terms used in the trailer. I thought someone would have picked it up.

Revanto ;P
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Re: Marvel Cinematic Universe: Straight Outta Wakanda
#3630  March 20, 2018, 12:39:51 pm
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Well, it is. Unless you have evidence that proves otherwise.
You're the one dismissing it as comic book logic, Where's the Nobel prize that proved that ? Because every single theory say the universe is finite. There is a finite number of atoms in the universe that hasn't changed since the big bang / big expansion.
If I struggled to the end of my determination, to the end of my way of life with my followers, if the result is ruin, then this ruin is inevitable. Grieve. Shed tears. But you cannot regret.
Re: Marvel Cinematic Universe: Straight Outta Wakanda
#3631  March 20, 2018, 03:29:26 pm
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Wow! I don't really know how to approach this because, again, I mentioned that this was movie (OK, and comic book) logic. It's like arguing over fiction as it were fact.

"The term infinite doesn't necessarily mean limitless,"
Yes, it does. That is the actual meaning of the word.

"something humans can't measure in quantity or size can also be called infinite."
Yes, but then they are not using the term correctly or they are exaggerating. People have the tendency to do that.

Yes, people tend to do that.
Words and meaning are also defined by people.


"Saying the universe if infinite is because we can't measure it (or just won't), not because we know for sure it's limitless."
Actually, the universe (our real universe) IS by it's own very nature infinite. Things like the law of conservation of energy illustrates this. But you can also figure this out using basic logic. You don't need to understand complex science or math. It's just a matter of common sense.

It's most probably quantifiable, maybe just not by humans.
You might have gotten things mixed up, like "the quantity of energy in our universe" and that "energy can't be destroyed".
Energy/atoms will be converted into another form, so the quantity will be the same as is, but there is still a quantity.
Again, we humans apply the term infinite because we don't know the limit or in this case the quantity of the universe.
Then again, maybe you are right and our universe is limitless, we might never know.

Also, this discussion, although interesting, might start to derail too much into quantum physics.
So if anything, I'll agree to disagree.

"BTW, I love the idea of turning everyone into popcorn."
Yeah, but salted or unsalted?

I like 'em sweet.
Re: Marvel Cinematic Universe: Straight Outta Wakanda
#3632  March 20, 2018, 06:30:19 pm
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I mean beyond any deeper explanation about the exact nature of the term, why did Revanto figure that the name of the infinity gems and/or what one can potentially do with them had anything to do with Thanos' personal motivation in the first place?
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Re: Marvel Cinematic Universe: Straight Outta Wakanda
#3633  March 21, 2018, 02:11:51 am
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Well, it is. Unless you have evidence that proves otherwise.
You're the one dismissing it as comic book logic, Where's the Nobel prize that proved that ? Because every single theory say the universe is finite. There is a finite number of atoms in the universe that hasn't changed since the big bang / big expansion.

Well, in comic books and other fiction, yeah, you can have anything happen. A magic unicorn could have farted glittery fairy dust which formed the universe. I don't need a Nobel Prize to prove that.

No science can actually prove whether the universe is finite or infinite because of the size of the task and the limited lifespans we have individually and as a race as a whole. The only thing that we can do is to use deductive reasoning or logic the same way that detectives would.

You say that "every single theory say the universe is finite." You're making a blanket assumption, though, and that's not how proper science works. Science needs to be impartial and unbiased otherwise the science is skewed and cannot be relied upon. Every piece of evidence cannot be ignored even if the scientist has some sort of issue or disagreement with some of the pieces of evidence. If a scientist discards a piece of evidence because they disagree with it then they are not doing their jobs.

But you are mentioning theories. Theories are not fact. They have not been proven and can actually be disproven if the logical underpinnings don't pan out. The big bang theory is just a theory that has a massive fundamental flaw. But I'm not here to discuss that subject. If any of these theories were fact than they would have absolute undeniable proof but they have none of that and neither will they be able to prove the theories because, like I mentioned, the size of the task.

I can understand why most people can believe in a limited universe and the big bang theory (not the TV show, although, it is fun) as it was something I believed in when I was a kid. It sounds all easy and simple. I mean human beings live and die, so why can't a universe, right? I can also understand why for many people it is difficult or even trippy to believe in the concept of an infinite universe of infinite life because of the same reason but there are two things you can ask yourself that might put things into perspective:
1) How do you get something from nothing?
2) If there was a beginning, then what was before that? ...and what was before that? ...and what was before that? (repeat Ad Infinitum)

Look, I don't really want to continue this discussion here any more because it would be going too far off thread topic. If none of you agree with what I say then that's fine. It's your choice.

Anyway, I've said my piece.

....Yay, Infinity War. This movie is going to be awesome!
(I thought I'd say that just to stay on topic)

Revanto

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Re: Marvel Cinematic Universe: Straight Outta Wakanda
#3634  March 21, 2018, 02:20:59 am
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I don't understand what anything you say has to do with using an infinity stone to destroy half of all living things or half of the universe. What you're saying is very random.
Re: Marvel Cinematic Universe: Straight Outta Wakanda
#3635  March 21, 2018, 02:48:51 am
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You say that "every single theory say the universe is finite." You're making a blanket assumption, though, and that's not how proper science works
No I'm not. This is a real world thing : the current consensus in science is that the universe we know is finite in size, and there are a few theories about it. Hell, Stephen Hawking published another one literally days before he died.
This isn't comic book / movie logic. This is real world logic because this is what the scientific community currently thinks, even if you disagree with it because I guess you're smarter than the Internet and every scientist in the world. You have no idea what the fuck you're talking about.
Quote
If any of these theories were fact than they would have absolute undeniable proof
lol no. THAT is absolutely not how science works.

Also you still don't give any proof that the universe is infinite.
If I struggled to the end of my determination, to the end of my way of life with my followers, if the result is ruin, then this ruin is inevitable. Grieve. Shed tears. But you cannot regret.
Last Edit: March 21, 2018, 03:05:06 am by Byakko
Re: Marvel Cinematic Universe: Straight Outta Wakanda
#3636  April 25, 2018, 11:39:03 pm
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Spoilers. Yep.
Spoiler, click to toggle visibilty
If I struggled to the end of my determination, to the end of my way of life with my followers, if the result is ruin, then this ruin is inevitable. Grieve. Shed tears. But you cannot regret.
Last Edit: April 26, 2018, 01:24:31 am by Byakko
Re: Marvel Cinematic Universe: Straight Outta Wakanda
#3637  April 25, 2018, 11:54:05 pm
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Man, I watching IW on saturday, it feels so far away, lol
I heard Forbes, yes Forbes from all possible sites, wrote an article with all the spoilers the movie has, so better be cautious to not be spoiled by everything that came out from said article.
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Re: Marvel Cinematic Universe: Straight Outta Wakanda
#3638  April 26, 2018, 12:20:46 pm
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HOLY SHIT THIS MOVIE WAS AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
Re: Marvel Cinematic Universe: Spider-man , spider-man does whatever Stark lets him
#3639  April 29, 2018, 09:31:33 pm
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Re: Marvel Cinematic Universe: Straight Outta Wakanda
#3640  May 01, 2018, 05:11:01 pm
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It's been forever since I've posted here, but man do I need a place to gush:

Spoiler, click to toggle visibilty

Very worthwhile pay-off to a decade-long franchise. Likely seeing this again.
Suddenly, bow-wow-wow~. :3