01/01/11 - Flandre updatedLink: http://ricepigeon.webs.comFlandre Version History:Spoiler, click to toggle visibiltyQuote============================01/01/11 - Version 1.0============================Changes from Version BETA 1:- AI Adjusted- Life increased to 666 (from 500)- Several Basic attack startup times reduced- Destruction Arrow now requires Back to be held for 15 ticks instead of 25- Counter Clock's damage increased- Ground Dashes now grant Flandre immunity to non-throw attacks- Charged Standing Strong's projectile now moves twice as fast when controlled- New intro & win poses addedSYSTEM CHANGES:- Spellcard selection now displays the name of the highlighted spellcard.- SCGFlan.exe no longer requires .NET Framework to run.BUGFIXES:- Destruction Arrow's custom state bug fixed.- Destruction Arrow (Z version) can no longer be blocked.- Lavatein (Z Version) no longer triggers custom states on block.- Lavatein (all versions) can no longer chain into themselves.- Using the command for Counter Clock will no longer accidentally activate Cranberry TrapNEW SPELLCARDS:- Lv 1: Taboo "Hellcutter's Trophy"- Lv 3: Taboo "Royal Flush"SPELLCARD CHANGES:- Lv 1: Taboo "Lavatein" - Damage decreased - Can now be guarded in the air - Can no longer be guarded by crouching- Lv 1: Taboo "Cranberry Trap" - Damage increased - Command changed to D,DB,B,D,DB,B+x- Lv 2: Forbidden Barrage "Starbow Break" - Damage Reduced- Lv 2: Taboo "Kagome Kagome" - Command changed to D,DF,F,D,DF,F+y- Lv 3: Q.E.D. "Ripples of 495 years" - Damage increased - Debug issue fixed============================12/24/10 - Version BETA 1============================- Throw Added- Partial AI added- Portrait Added- Getup stances implemented/fixed.- Temporary Intro stance fixed.- Voice Added.- Juggle points on Lavatein and Shockwave increased.- Counter Clock's velocity increased, overall effect time decreased.- EX Lavatein added.- EX Specials can no longer be performed during Four of a Kind's effect- Out-of-battle spellcard selector added. Run SCGFlan.exe and follow the directions.BUGFIXES:- Flandre can no longer use Counter Clock if one is already on screen.New Spellcards:- Lvl 1: Taboo "Lavatein"- Lvl 1: Taboo "Cranberry Trap"- Lvl 2: Forbidden Barrage "Starbow Break"- Lvl 2: Taboo "Kagome Kagome"- Lvl 3: Q.E.D. "Ripples of 495 years"- Lvl 3: Secret Barrage "And Then Will There Be None?"============================12/02/10 - Version ALPHA 1============================First release.
Nuuuuuuuuuuu!!!! Why does it have to be 1.0 exclusive!? Wait....I haven't updated my MUGEN from any versions in 4 years or so now...huh...Really wish I could give feedback, but I can't so sadly...this post is pointless I guess. Though I do have to say....wasn't expecting this at all
Oh yeah! Finally! But what about Yuuka, when will you release her?---Feedback:- Well, the "And Then Will There Be None?" command is "y,y,B,x,x", not "y,y,F,x,x", as your readme says. Just a minor thing.- Wow, she has a lot of juggle tactics here. Was that intentional?- The "Hold B, F + Y/Z". for some reason, throws you to the ground when you block, and there's nothing in your readme commenting about that. I block the attack (and even receive chip damage and the block sound to confirm it), and for some reason the attack makes my character fall. Also, the "z" version is not unblockable. Even though it throws me to the ground, I can block the attack and only receive chip damage. And last about this attack (y/z versions only), if I use it again when my opponent is on the air spinning after the wallslam, for some reason it does like a jump and continue spinning a little more higher in the air. And IMO, the time you need to keep holding "b" is too much, but I suck with these commands, so maybe that's my problem.It's an awesome character. I hope you complete it soon.
Nanashi_1337 said, December 24, 2010, 10:26:15 am And last about this attack (y/z versions only), if I use it again when my opponent is on the air spinning after the wallslam, for some reason it does like a jump and continue spinning a little more higher in the air. And IMO, the time you need to keep holding "b" is too much, but I suck with these commands, so maybe that's my problem.Visual PresentationOn another note, I feel you went too extreme on the Glass Cannon thing.Oh and her level 2s do as much damage as 495 years which defeats the purpose of using an extra stock for it other than it's lol fullscreen.....and her IK should really be blockable.
Nanashi_1337 said, December 24, 2010, 10:26:15 am- Well, the "And Then Will There Be None?" command is "y,y,B,x,x", not "y,y,F,x,x", as your readme says. Just a minor thing.CorrectedQuote- Wow, she has a lot of juggle tactics here. Was that intentional?Partly, given her statusQuote- The "Hold B, F + Y/Z". for some reason, throws you to the ground when you block, and there's nothing in your readme commenting about that. I block the attack (and even receive chip damage and the block sound to confirm it), and for some reason the attack makes my character fall. Also, the "z" version is not unblockable. Even though it throws me to the ground, I can block the attack and only receive chip damage. And last about this attack (y/z versions only), if I use it again when my opponent is on the air spinning after the wallslam, for some reason it does like a jump and continue spinning a little more higher in the air. And IMO, the time you need to keep holding "b" is too much, but I suck with these commands, so maybe that's my problem.The custom state thing was an oversight, as I forgot to add a movehit trigger. Thats been fixed. same goes for the ability to block the Z version.QuoteOh yeah! Finally! But what about Yuuka, when will you release her?I was never working on Yuka
DF, the fact that 495 years is fullscreen is why it costs more...you do know that if it has both RANGE and DAMAGE it's more useful then a version that doesn't have one or the other. I expected more from you then that.
Darkflare said, December 25, 2010, 12:18:19 amNanashi_1337 said, December 24, 2010, 10:26:15 am And last about this attack (y/z versions only), if I use it again when my opponent is on the air spinning after the wallslam, for some reason it does like a jump and continue spinning a little more higher in the air. And IMO, the time you need to keep holding "b" is too much, but I suck with these commands, so maybe that's my problem.Visual PresentationOn another note, I feel you went too extreme on the Glass Cannon thing.Oh and her level 2s do as much damage as 495 years which defeats the purpose of using an extra stock for it other than it's lol fullscreen.....and her IK should really be blockable.I'll agree here. I have attacks doing over half her life. On 150% life settings. WHAT.
The Holy Emperor said, December 25, 2010, 02:20:14 amDF, the fact that 495 years is fullscreen is why it costs more...you do know that if it has both RANGE and DAMAGE it's more useful then a version that doesn't have one or the other. I expected more from you then that.Yea...except for the part where you completely forget that she has a level 2 THAT HAS JUST AS MUCH RANGE AND IS AS DAMAGING.Really, I expected more from someone that wanted to prove me wrong.
Oh and the fact that she gains more immunity in that move and it's not punishable on whiff like the level 2. Take into account the recovery times, invulerabilities, etc. rather then just the attack and range. Also her other level 2 isn't fullscreen, it's a cloning move, derp. Also tested on ironmugen's mr. big, 495 years does 606 damage, : /. Also only her Taboo Kagome Kagome does the relative same damage as 495 years, but that's A UP CLOSE COMMAND GRAB.(since it's technically a level 2 I guess the cloning part is null, but in the readme it's apparently level 1.5 I dunno) Same damage indeed, huh?
Immunity? Just from projectiles and low attacks. It's like Clone Zero's Fullscreen, only it's 3 stocks, more damaging and it can be done in the air. It's still a punishable move when blocked.And I'm referring to the lvl 2 where she rushes across the screen while leaving behind lasers. She goes way too fast to stop her while she's in the middle of it and if you get caught your lifebar gets raped with the same damage as her actual level 3. Simply put, the additional benefits aren't worth the extra stock needed and that near full screen lvl 2 is simply a much better option than the level 3.
but if you turn on the debug, you will see there IS a damage difference, so the problem lies not in the damage but in the move itself, so you sort of contradicted yourself : P. But whatever, enough of this.
As far as damage goes on a character with normal stats:Starbow Break - 486Kagome Kagome - 522Ripples of 495 Years - 606Darkflare said, December 25, 2010, 03:54:42 amAnd I'm referring to the lvl 2 where she rushes across the screen while leaving behind lasers. She goes way too fast to stop her while she's in the middle of it and if you get caught your lifebar gets raped with the same damage as her actual level 3. Simply put, the additional benefits aren't worth the extra stock needed and that near full screen lvl 2 is simply a much better option than the level 3.After she passes above you, you can still hit her out of it while shes's doing it. Her level 3 doesnt give you that luxury until the attack is over with.
Contradicted myself? Where? At any rate, the lvl 2 is much safer than the level 3 and given Flandre's ridiculous attack, you can easily make up for it with the extra saved stock.On another note, 485 years is giving me debug flood.
My god, And then There were None is insanely satisfying to pull off when you set it up properly.Darkflare said, December 25, 2010, 04:03:40 amContradicted myself? Where? At any rate, the lvl 2 is much safer than the level 3 and given Flandre's ridiculous attack, you can easily make up for it with the extra saved stock.On another note, 485 years is giving me debug flood.Odd. I got zero debug flood from this character at all when I beta tested it. RP, what did you do? .V.
-Greed- said, December 25, 2010, 04:04:35 amMy god, And then There were None is insanely satisfying to pull off when you set it up properly.Darkflare said, December 25, 2010, 04:03:40 amContradicted myself? Where? At any rate, the lvl 2 is much safer than the level 3 and given Flandre's ridiculous attack, you can easily make up for it with the extra saved stock.On another note, 485 years is giving me debug flood.Odd. I got zero debug flood from this character at all when I beta tested it. RP, what did you do? .V.An oversight on my part. It has to do with the hitspark positioning and whether or not you have a target. Its been fixed.
These hitsounds... I can't place where they're from but they sound great! The only thing I could point out that may fall under the bug category is something I found when wall clinging. If you backdash into wall cling you can press the backdash command again and it'll produce the backdash fx but you won't notice a change in Flandre's stance.Fun char RP.
Feedback :-SCGFlan.exe says it requires .NET framework 4.0somenumber version. I don't think anyone will install new software just to make a card selector work, you should consider compiling it in a way that it doesn't require anything else to be installed if that's possible.(By the way, I have .NET framework installed, but not that version.)-She can only graze by FF or BB. Graze button+direction is much easier to use, and there are three unused buttons, you should make one of these a graze button.-No jump grazing either, that's pretty important to have, especially when in the corner near the opponent where forward/back graze is suicide.-There are a ton of gaps on the clsn1 of Counter Clock. It probably won't matter, though.-The counter clock helpers are not destroyed when they disappear, making you unable to fire another one for about 2-3 seconds after the previous disappeared. While this is good because it prevents spamming it, you have no way of knowing when you can fire the next one.-Why F,D,DF? D,DB,B is unused and much easier to use on a keyboard. Actually, never mind, I found that DF,DF also works from the cmd. This should be mentioned in the readme.-The fast version of Laevatein completely misses when it looks like it's cutting the opponent in half. If you want it to be shorter range, you should reduce the length of the sword. (xscale=0.5 or something like that)As it is now, it looks like twice as long as the actual hitting distance.-Cranberry Trap has too much damage dampening. I couldn't get more than (or equal to) Laevateins's damage even if I kept attacking the opponent for the whole duration. As both are Lv1, and Laevatain even has a blocking restriction without requiring you to combo additional attacks, I think it should be possible to do more with Cranberry Trap if you keep attacking and use the right attacks. Otherwise there is no point in selecting it instead of Laevatain.-Laevatein does a lot of damage though, perhaps 250-260 would be better than 278.-In state 3101, on the Nothitby, the ignorehitpause line is missing the =1 part.-I had to keep holding back and forward at the same time to block Starbow Breaker because the "back" direction changes too quickly to follow. Perhaps a higher guard.hittime would be better so that it's impossible to stop guarding halfway during the move?-The spellcard selection shouldn't appear when the AI is on.-Laevatain (the z version I think) made me fall when I guarded it.-I was able to get 418 damage out of spamming Laevatains on the falling and/or OTG opponent, isn't that a bit too much?-I think the power charge shouldn't be allowed for the AI. That makes her far too vulnerable to long range attackers while being way too powerful against short range attackers.-D,F,x fires the Clockwork projectile. However, if I try to use that after guarding, I will get Cranberry Trap, or sometimes Destruction Arrow. The commands are way too similar, that's annoying.-A single DFx projectile hit equals nearly 1000 power with power charge. Do that 3 times and you can use the instant KO attack. Same applies to Laevatain while the opponent is falling, but the projectile is worse as it buys you time even if it's guarded. If the opponent can't graze, you'll gain power and lots of it.-In general, power charge+instant KO attack for power = bad idea. Especially if the power charge is linear. Perhaps if it would start charging much slower and speed up if its not interrupted for some time it would be better, but I'm not sure if Flandre should have a power charge at all, with her damage output.-The instant kill command is very hard to enter, can be interrupted by the opponent easily and misses when the opponent jumps. While getting enough power to use it is too easy, making it work is definitely not, so spending the power on the other attacks is probably a better idea, unless you are in a desperate situation and want to take the risk. This balances the attack itself out, but the power charge is an issue regardless.-While power charge can give me 700+ power every time I hit with something before the opponent stands up, without power charge, I was able to get 1000 power from an entire round of fight only. It think she should gain more power from attacks, and less from the charge.-Due to her extreme vulnerability, on normal or higher difficulty where you can't avoid taking hits all the time, winning is pretty hard. Of course, if I start charging power, and use cards, I can win, but without that...it would take a lot of practice. I think while she is a powerful character, the amount of skill required to use her well is much higher than usual characters. It might be the difference in control though I'm too used to be able to graze by holding a button+direction.Overall, I think a bit more life (700 for example), no, or at least much slower power charging, and faster power gain from attacking would improve her a lot.She is a great character, hope she'll be complete soon. Especially because she it the first Touhou with 1.0 scaled AI other than my own.
Quote-While power charge can give me 700+ power every time I hit with something before the opponent stands up, without power charge, I was able to get 1000 power from an entire round of fight only. It think she should gain more power from attacks, and less from the charge.-Due to her extreme vulnerability, on normal or higher difficulty where you can't avoid taking hits all the time, winning is pretty hard. Of course, if I start charging power, and use cards, I can win, but without that...it would take a lot of practice. I think while she is a powerful character, the amount of skill required to use her well is much higher than usual characters. It might be the difference in control though I'm too used to be able to graze by holding a button+direction.I noticed that, and looking at her life and attack500 life and 170 attack.If you want a bit more survivability for less damage, I'd suggest.... 800-900 life and 120-140 attack, given what her default is. Of course, 1000, 100 is an option RP gave himself, so.... yeah.
Seravy said, December 25, 2010, 03:03:20 pmFeedback :-SCGFlan.exe says it requires .NET framework 4.0somenumber version. I don't think anyone will install new software just to make a card selector work, you should consider compiling it in a way that it doesn't require anything else to be installed if that's possible.(By the way, I have .NET framework installed, but not that version.)My bad. Forgot to make a notice about that. I may rewrite the program into C or Java when I have the time, for compatability sake.Quote-She can only graze by FF or BB. Graze button+direction is much easier to use, and there are three unused buttons, you should make one of these a graze button.Graze was never intended to be on any of my characters. Flandre's dashes are supposed to give her immunity to everything except throws, like a roll.Quote-No jump grazing either, that's pretty important to have, especially when in the corner near the opponent where forward/back graze is suicide.See previous commentQuote-There are a ton of gaps on the clsn1 of Counter Clock. It probably won't matter, though.I know its a cardinal rule to keep CLSNs simplistic but... Given how the attack was, doing that made it look odd when Counter Clock would hit without any of the spokes making any physical contact.Quote-The counter clock helpers are not destroyed when they disappear, making you unable to fire another one for about 2-3 seconds after the previous disappeared. While this is good because it prevents spamming it, you have no way of knowing when you can fire the next one.Intentional on my part, but I'll see what I can do as far as indication goes.Quote-Why F,D,DF? D,DB,B is unused and much easier to use on a keyboard. Actually, never mind, I found that DF,DF also works from the cmd. This should be mentioned in the readme.I'll make a note of that.Quote-The fast version of Laevatein completely misses when it looks like it's cutting the opponent in half. If you want it to be shorter range, you should reduce the length of the sword. (xscale=0.5 or something like that) As it is now, it looks like twice as long as the actual hitting distance.The readme does say the the fast version has shorter range, but as far as visuals I'll see what I can do.Quote-Cranberry Trap has too much damage dampening. I couldn't get more than (or equal to) Laevateins's damage even if I kept attacking the opponent for the whole duration. As both are Lv1, and Laevatain even has a blocking restriction without requiring you to combo additional attacks, I think it should be possible to do more with Cranberry Trap if you keep attacking and use the right attacks. Otherwise there is no point in selecting it instead of Laevatain.Issue addressed.Quote-Laevatein does a lot of damage though, perhaps 250-260 would be better than 278.You might be right. Then again, it is highly punishable on block.Quote-In state 3101, on the Nothitby, the ignorehitpause line is missing the =1 part.I'm still thinking of the WinMUGEN days when this wasnt required. Fixed.Quote-I had to keep holding back and forward at the same time to block Starbow Breaker because the "back" direction changes too quickly to follow. Perhaps a higher guard.hittime would be better so that it's impossible to stop guarding halfway during the move?Will look into it.Quote-The spellcard selection shouldn't appear when the AI is on.I left it that way for two reasons:1.) So you know what the AI has ahead of time2.) In cases where you want to activate the AI yourself, as it would not start off with it, or in watch mode where you have to deactivate the AI yourself. As far as I know, there's no way to determine such an instant changeQuote-Laevatain (the z version I think) made me fall when I guarded it.Will look into it. My gut feeling is its the same as the issue with Destruction Arrow.Quote-I was able to get 418 damage out of spamming Laevatains on the falling and/or OTG opponent, isn't that a bit too much?I may increase the juggle points that move takes to compensate.Quote-I think the power charge shouldn't be allowed for the AI. That makes her far too vulnerable to long range attackers while being way too powerful against short range attackers.The AI is still incomplete, and she is supposed to be more vulnerable than others.Quote-D,F,x fires the Clockwork projectile. However, if I try to use that after guarding, I will get Cranberry Trap, or sometimes Destruction Arrow. The commands are way too similar, that's annoying.Wll look into it.Quote-A single DFx projectile hit equals nearly 1000 power with power charge. Do that 3 times and you can use the instant KO attack. Same applies to Laevatain while the opponent is falling, but the projectile is worse as it buys you time even if it's guarded. If the opponent can't graze, you'll gain power and lots of it.I'll adjust it.Quote-In general, power charge+instant KO attack for power = bad idea. Especially if the power charge is linear. Perhaps if it would start charging much slower and speed up if its not interrupted for some time it would be better, but I'm not sure if Flandre should have a power charge at all, with her damage output.The power charge does slow down as it reaches higher levels, and Flandre is pretty fragile.Quote-Due to her extreme vulnerability, on normal or higher difficulty where you can't avoid taking hits all the time, winning is pretty hard. Of course, if I start charging power, and use cards, I can win, but without that...it would take a lot of practice. I think while she is a powerful character, the amount of skill required to use her well is much higher than usual characters. It might be the difference in control though I'm too used to be able to graze by holding a button+direction.Overall, I think a bit more life (700 for example), no, or at least much slower power charging, and faster power gain from attacking would improve her a lot.She is a great character, hope she'll be complete soon. Especially because she it the first Touhou with 1.0 scaled AI other than my own.I already plan to give her a life increase.
QuoteI know its a cardinal rule to keep CLSNs simplistic but... Given how the attack was, doing that made it look odd when Counter Clock would hit without any of the spokes making any physical contact.I'm usually rotating stuff like that with Angledraw and use small like 5x5 clsn1 projectiles created in a loop to cover only the blades. Thanks to the fact that only one projectile can hit a player per tick, it's possible to make it hit once even if many are in contact with the opponent. It's a bit too complicated to do to be worth on this one, but it's useful for longer rotating beams.QuoteGraze was never intended to be on any of my characters. Flandre's dashes are supposed to give her immunity to everything except throws, like a roll.It's a Touhou character, that displays Touhou graze effects for the graze command, so it's misleading. If it's not intended to be a graze, mention that in the readme, including the fact that it can avoid AA and AP not just AP. It'll prevent a lot of misunderstandings.
QuoteNot every Touhou char needs to be danmaku hell w/ graze mechanics all day every dayI didn't say it needs it, I said that if it looks like it but isn't, that should be mentioned. Besides, it's stronger than grazing, anyway, it evades more types of attacks, not less.
It's a Touhou character that DOESN'T use Touhou mechanics.That should have tipped you off in the no grazing department.
QuoteIt's a Touhou character that DOESN'T use Touhou mechanics.That should have tipped you off in the no grazing department.Yeah, right.It uses the command for grazing, plays the grazing sound effect, has the grazing explod displayed, and evades projectiles. It's on a character that comes from Touhou. It's obviously not grazing, why did I even consider that possibility. It's definitely my fault for thinking that.Besides, I don't care what it is called, dodge, graze, evasion, dash or whatever, as long as "Evade non-throw attacks" is mentioned in the readme. Because it isn't at the moment, that's the problem.QuoteIt still doesn't need it.I still haven't said it needs it. Heck, it does what grazing can (avoids projectiles during a dash) already. What's the point in adding grazing?Or do you mean it doesn't need the dash? Or that it shouldn't evade projectiles? Or what do you want? (Other than attacking me as usual)Or do you perhaps mean the suggestion to add an upwards direction? That assumed the others are grazing. If they are not, it's obviously void. Besides RP already explained it well enough.
Also turns out there was an oversight on my part. As of this release, Flandre's dashes only give her invulnerability to crouching attacks, not projectiles. So I have no idea where the graze stuff is coming from since she shouldnt even have that.
No idea either.I've noticed one more thing :Quote[State 1000, NHB]type = nothitbytrigger1 = var(10)!=2trigger1 = time = 0time = 13value = AThis is in Laevateinn's code. Is it intended to avoid air physical attack to counter them? Because as it is now, it'll also block almost all projectiles (those are usually air type), and even fullscreen supers, or targeted spells like Nitori's Linear Gun card, that are also usually air type.Unfortunately there is no way to block air physical attacks with a nothitby directly, but you could try something like this instead :Type=NothitbyTriggerall=P2statetype=ATriggerall=P2movetype=Avaue=,AA
Flandre updated, first post updated with changes.Also SCGFlan.exe should longer require the .NET framework in order to run.
Bastard Wolf said, January 01, 2011, 02:52:26 amOMG IT'S AN UPDATED FLANDRE FROM THE FUTURE!!! (is 7:50pm 31/12/2010 over here)The Starbow effect is supposed to occur when traveling at sub-light speed. In Flandre's case, her Starbow Break made her go in excess of 88 mph.