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Haruhi (from Choiyer's Haruhi) (Read 50059 times)

Started by Zero-Sennin, July 26, 2010, 12:15:24 am
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Re: Haruhi (from Choiyer's Haruhi)
#21  July 26, 2010, 06:33:36 pm
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Ohhhh, wow. Leave for a few hours and everyone explodes all over the thread in a nice, awesome way.

OK, first things first. Prepare for quotes.

STUFF

I appreciate the effort, Seravy, I really do. So, here's what I've decided to do.

The helper alterations and damage reductions, I'll add into the character myself based on the corrections you made, because I've been doing fixes since release and it'll help me remember what to do next time. You get credit for all of the bugfixes, no doubt.

I've tried out the AI that you've written, and it's pretty good. I'll take a close look at it and figure out what I want to do, but ultimately, my goal is to try and write it myself. Understand that I am not begrudging your work--your notations make sense and I can put them to good use.

Thanks a lot, really.

^ this

and what happened to the SOS crash?

no evasion roll?
no you know what move when you press z to cancel shoulder throw?
I can do 3 mikuru beams is that normal?
IMO maybe it's better if mikuru and yuki supers are combined with the old sos crash.like kyosuke's in cvs

this haruhi has potential and If done right it might be better than choiyer's....


SOS DAN Attack was listed as a to-do item. I've done it more or less the way Choiyer did (debating about the fancy sparkles and stuff, but they'll get in there once I get the rips out of Choiyer's SFF).

No, no power charge or evasion roll. The former is not something I like to put in my characters anymore, though I have done it on occasion. Same sort of goes for evasion roll, but I'm normally more flexible with that particular feature.

Molester grab is out. Konata's team up is more than enough compensation for that.

The Mikuru Beam spams were an error on my part. Don't worry, I've got that sorted out.

Anyway, very short feedback :
- Batter Up! projectile could rebound on the ground instead of going through it.
- Dynamic Entry! in the air doesn't feel natural in terms of change of vels, but hey, that's for gameplay.
- Air S.O.S. JOUST's FX has shadow when hitting the opponent (ignorehitpause missing).

-Will be done.
-:wacko: Glad to see we're in agreement.
-I'm on it.

*phew*

Didn't forget anything, I trust?
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Re: Haruhi (from Choiyer's Haruhi)
#22  July 26, 2010, 06:50:05 pm
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Didn't forget anything, I trust?
Backdash also counts as a jump, allowing you to do short hopping aerial attacks.
That does include DYNAMIKO ENTERY.
Allowing for easy surprise DYNAMIC ENTRIES when enemies least expect it.

And it could use a bit more combo ability.
What about the specials to supers canceling?

And SOS Joust has fast startup after the superpause, and goes across the screen pretty fast.
Any enemy that isn't blocking during the superpause is basically screwed.

And to be honest, I don't get why enemies fly really high when they get jousted.
Re: Haruhi (from Choiyer's Haruhi)
#23  July 26, 2010, 06:58:54 pm
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And to be honest, I don't get why enemies fly really high when they get jousted.

I've got a thing for dramatic flair, truthfully. If you play Project Lensman, Kaneda's superpunch super does the same thing, heh heh.

I just tried out a horizontal equivalent though. Just as satisfying, so I'll keep it, slow down the startup, and add special->super canceling as well as fix the back dash. :)

Considering what I've been hearing about my chip damage values lately, I might as well ask. What do most people use for theirs? At this point, I'm considering ~1/3rd damage as my new standard as opposed to 1/2, but if smaller is better, I don't mind going down further.
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Re: Haruhi (from Choiyer's Haruhi)
#24  July 26, 2010, 07:01:36 pm
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And to be honest, I don't get why enemies fly really high when they get jousted.

I've got a thing for dramatic flair, truthfully. If you play Project Lensman, Kaneda's superpunch super does the same thing, heh heh.

I just tried out a horizontal equivalent though. Just as satisfying, so I'll keep it, slow down the startup, and add special->super canceling as well as fix the back dash. :)

Considering what I've been hearing about my chip damage values lately, I might as well ask. What do most people use for theirs? At this point, I'm considering ~1/3rd damage as my new standard as opposed to 1/2, but if smaller is better, I don't mind going down further.
Well, you gotta show us screenshots of the amount of chip damage compared to the amount of real damage.
Last Edit: July 26, 2010, 07:05:57 pm by Kawaii-Desu♥
Re: Haruhi (from Choiyer's Haruhi)
#25  July 26, 2010, 07:11:00 pm
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I can list the values straight out as they are now. I started lowering from 1/2 to 1/3rd (a little bit) with this release, but it's not supposed to be precisely 1/3rd or anything like that.

These are coming from the copy of the character I have, so if it's different from the release's values, don't be surprised.

SOS Joust (ground) = 200 unblocked, 80 blocked
SOS Joust (air) = 200 total, 80 when blocked
Molester Team Up Special = 200 when it connects (the first hit does no damage on block)
Yuki Striker = 210 unblocked total, 65 when blocked
Mikuru Striker = 200 unblocked total, 90 when blocked.

SOS DAN Attack does 300 damage-- it is unblockable if the first hit connects, but the first hit does no damage to begin with and is blockable to boot.
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I don't provide old versions of my characters once they're updated. Please don't ask me for them.
Last Edit: July 26, 2010, 07:14:22 pm by Zero-Sennin
Re: Haruhi (from Choiyer's Haruhi)
#26  July 26, 2010, 07:29:02 pm
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Considering what I've been hearing about my chip damage values lately, I might as well ask. What do most people use for theirs? At this point, I'm considering ~1/3rd damage as my new standard as opposed to 1/2, but if smaller is better, I don't mind going down further.

1/2 for chip damage in the current days is absurd, there isn't any game that uses these value, try something between 15-20%.

And...

Quote
Quote
Do you mean...

... this?
Hmm...might as well add that, yeah. For a super, obviously.

It was actually a joke  --; Actually I regreted after posting it.
Last Edit: July 26, 2010, 07:47:18 pm by Zzyzzyxx
Re: Haruhi (from Choiyer's Haruhi)
#27  July 26, 2010, 07:46:44 pm
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For cheap damage, I usually go around 10% for normals, and up to 15% for supers. I can, in rare cases, go even higher up to 30 or 40%, but only if it's for a Lv2/Lv3 super which main purpose is to have high block damage.
Re: Haruhi (from Choiyer's Haruhi)
#28  July 26, 2010, 07:54:16 pm
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For cheap damage, I usually go around 10% for normals, and up to 15% for supers. I can, in rare cases, go even higher up to 30 or 40%, but only if it's for a Lv2/Lv3 super which main purpose is to have high block damage.
You mind as well make it unblockable if it's supposed to have like 30/40/50% block damage.
Re: Haruhi (from Choiyer's Haruhi)
#29  July 26, 2010, 07:58:53 pm
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What do most people use for theirs?
Depends on the move.

Most normal and special attacks and projectiles : 0 (zero)
Some normal or special attacks and projectiles : 1-10 (only where it does make sense, like a hit with a baseball bat/hammer, or a sharp projectile like a knife, and only if the move cannot be used in a spamming fashion).

Some slow special moves where the only reason for using the move is the high guarded damage can have much more, but those must be slow enough to get interrupted easily (as you can't guard well against them)...however, making unguardable attacks from these is a better solution.

Generally, no chip damage or very minimal (5-10% or less) is best on non-supers.

Supers are a completely different thing altogether.
They can have any amount, IF that is reflected in the other parameters of the attack.
For example
Expensive, medium damage, slow, interruptable : any amount is probably ok, even completely unguardable would probably work if it's slow enough.
Expensive, but high damage and fast or uninterruptable : no place for guarded damage here. It's powerful enough without it.
etc...
costs, restrictions, damage, speed, interruptability, invincibility frames (f there are any), area of attack (from punch up to a fullscreen explosion) and chip damage together needs to result in a balanced attack.
If you want high chip damage on your super, increase the power cost, or nerf some other parameters (make it slower for example).

Think about it this way :
If you are guarding and still take some damage, then guarding is an inferior strategy to attacking back (and hoping you'll hit first), or dodging. In normal mugen, guarding or attacking should be equally desirable because there are all kinds of characters, and it isn't guaranteed that all opponents do have a fast enough attack to interrupt yours instead of guarding and taking damage.
High chip damage promotes more aggressive gameplay (attacking is better than guarding), which works out in a full game where every character is coded to work in that environment, but not in normal mugen where some (probably many) characters will have trouble handling it.

Overall, chip damage is an extra you are supposed to pay for (in the slowness or higher power cost for example), not something added to every attack for free.

Quote
It was actually a joke  --; Actually I regreted after posting it.
Don't worry, I'll keep the original Mikuru beam. Those huge laser beams are getting boring, too many characters have them.
Although, seeing how there are 2 No and 0 Yes votes so far, there is a good chance I won't even make a Haruhi.
Re: Haruhi (from Choiyer's Haruhi)
#30  July 26, 2010, 08:00:57 pm
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Although, seeing how there are 2 No and 0 Yes votes so far, there is a good chance I won't even make a Haruhi.
Don't let 2 no's and a yes stop you from making a Haruhi if you want to.
Re: Haruhi (from Choiyer's Haruhi)
#31  July 26, 2010, 08:14:08 pm
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So the general consensus is that chip damage should rarely exceed 20 or so percent, if at all.

I'll get to dropping damages now.

Also, after looking over Seravy's code, I've decided that as it stands now, I might as well work it, almost wholesale, into the release. I'm making my own changes to how certain things function, but it will look very similar to what he originally wrote. Now, I know he catches a bad rap around here for his character making style (and I'm NOT going into that, nor do I want to start a debate about it here), but I like what he's done, he's made a clear effort to explain what he's done, and I can work with it.

...I think I had something else to say, but I forgot....
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Re: Haruhi (from Choiyer's Haruhi)
#32  July 26, 2010, 08:16:32 pm
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You love me, that's what you wanted to say. :gaykiss:
Re: Haruhi (from Choiyer's Haruhi)
#33  July 26, 2010, 08:24:04 pm
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Don't let 2 no's and a yes stop you from making a Haruhi if you want to.
They won't but there are like 30 other characters I want to make just as much or some even more...so unless there are at least 50% on the yes, I'll do those 30 characters first and Haruhi will have to wait for half an eternity. That is, if there are enough votes to even consider the result...if there aren't, then I'll probably not make it now, and keep focusing on Touhous.
(I've already did most of the characters that were really important for me...the ones I didn't, I have a reason not to do yet. So I can afford to make what people ask for first.)

Quote
Now, I know he catches a bad rap around here for his character making style (and I'm NOT going into that, nor do I want to start a debate about it here), but I like what he's done, he's made a clear effort to explain what he's done, and I can work with it.
One thing you might want to consider is that the AI I made is a "strict" AI. It will always do what's good, or there is a chance for doing nothing for a bit of time on lower levels. If you want it to be less predictable or want it to make mistakes on low levels, you'll need to add some stuff, but that part is the "extra", it's not really necessary in an AI, but will make the character more interesting to fight against.
Re: Haruhi (from Choiyer's Haruhi)
#34  July 27, 2010, 04:15:17 pm
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Choiyer is a butthurt faggot.

KEEP IT UP ZERO-SENNIN! Also, are you ever gonna update your Izuna? ;_;


Also, Seravy, with my history of fighting your crap, I can safely say, DON'T MAKE YOUR OWN HARUHI. Unless of course you WANT another R-Team Massacre.
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Re: Haruhi (from Choiyer's Haruhi)
#35  July 27, 2010, 04:25:50 pm
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Choiyer is a butthurt faggot.

KEEP IT UP ZERO-SENNIN! Also, are you ever gonna update your Izuna? ;_;


Also, Seravy, with my history of fighting your crap, I can safely say, DON'T MAKE YOUR OWN HARUHI. Unless of course you WANT another R-Team Massacre.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!  ;D :D

Choiyer's response is hilarious! Besides we are fixing Haruhi to more tolerable levels.

Guess he would like us to bash Haruhi around until the end of time!

Another thing, get rid of the perverted moves that we hate! (i.e. the molester grab and the "fingering")

And one more thing, glad to see GF202020 around here.

Hug the Pikachus!

Hug A Pikachu Today!
Re: Haruhi (from Choiyer's Haruhi)
#36  July 27, 2010, 04:34:54 pm
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LOL Choiyer, aka the guy who butchered several of IronMugen's characters.
Re: Haruhi (from Choiyer's Haruhi)
#37  July 27, 2010, 05:15:59 pm
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Choiyer is a butthurt faggot.

LOL Choiyer, aka the guy who butchered several of IronMugen's characters.

Nice double standard there Choiyer. Too bad you dont own any copyrights to the Haruhi franchise so you can't do shit without putting yourself in legal jeopardy, at least under US law, but I'm assuming JPN law isnt much different. Still doesn't change the fact you've joined the ranks of Shinra358, Anamochi, and Omegabros.
Re: Haruhi (from Choiyer's Haruhi)
#38  July 27, 2010, 05:19:19 pm
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LOL

LOL

LOL

LOL


LOL!!!!!!
Last Edit: July 27, 2010, 05:26:19 pm by Jesuszilla
Re: Haruhi (from Choiyer's Haruhi)
#39  July 27, 2010, 05:21:47 pm
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The molester moves I don't really mind since they are in character for Haruhi, but still they are not done very tastefully from a gameplay standpoint since they take like forever.

Also lol Choiyer doesn't know about MFG rules.
Re: Haruhi (from Choiyer's Haruhi)
#40  July 27, 2010, 05:22:21 pm
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He also doesn't know that you either make it fight or you make it fuck. You can't do both.