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King of Fighters E blog (Read 987562 times)

Started by swipergod, November 14, 2007, 02:53:22 am
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Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition (A Little Mugen Project)
#141  April 19, 2008, 10:45:40 am
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Doesn't seem like theres many people testing this, you should probably use the releases section for feedback on your next release, since it seems like more people check there.

Anyway, I couldn't find any more bugs.  But I do have a definite impression of your characters now.

After playing quite some time I started disliking the Fatal Fury supersparks, just doesn't feel like KoF.

I think the AI on the whole is a little to "perfect", Some characters Roll too much, and it's almost impossible to even hit them once.  I don't know if you like AI that hard, but it can get annoying after playing against them a while.  I'll go over each character individually with what particular things I dislike, and what I feel are problems.



Rugal:  Well, you've emulated SNK Boss mode here quite nicely on both AI and Move fronts.  He's fine I guess, since he is a boss, so you should probably leave him as is.

Geese:  Easier than Rugal, doesn't overuse roll, so thats good.  Spams Repuken's alot at range, and doesn't use Jaeiken very much.  Deadly Rave does too much damage for a level 1 super IMO, halving the last hit would be perfect. 

Kasumi:  Her unblockable auto-combo is pretty cheap, which isn't helped by the fact that the AI spams it on cornered opponents.  Also her DM Unblockable command grab could use some sprite edits as it looks kind of funky.

King:  King has a lot of auto-combos and the AI uses them a lot, also she uses roll way to much.  The projectile use is less a problem then I initially thought as she won't use them up close, instead she'll just spam roll until she can get an auto-combo off.  Smart play from a human opponent, but not well suited to an AI that can do it reliably all day long.

Mr. Karate:  Pretty balanced character here, Only have 2 problems with him.  He uses Zanretsuken to much trying to get falling opponents.  Secondly I'm not liking the Hadouken sprites for the Haohshouken.

Mai:  No problems here, can be quite tough to beat sometimes, but doesn't rely on any one move more than others that I've seen.

Kim: oh boy, this guy abuses his ground stomp, he uses this way to much, followed by his rising attack.  If you can get him to vary his moves a bit more I think he would be great.

Terry:  As I mentioned before he uses Rising Tackle to much.  I think he'd be great other than that.

Whip:  Played fine to me, no suggestions I can think of.

K`:  K` uses his "roll" a little bit to much, no other problems

Iori:  Nothing stood out here, seems okay.

These are my personal opinions of these characters, a lot of it is subjective, so keep that in mind.

Also, I want to add that I like what your doing, and look forward to your next release.

Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition (A Little Mugen Project)
#142  April 19, 2008, 11:16:42 pm
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Hey Shion.  Good to see ya again.  And thank you for taking the time to write such a large response.  Personally, I love the MotW sparks.  I'm not as big a fan of the RB HSDM spark, but I've gotten used to it, and it's the only thing out there that I can think of that is "bigger" than the garou P.Power spark.

I also wasn't big on the Shinkuu Hadouken being Karate's big fireball.  I really do want to keep the fireballs different though.  I'll see if Marco's S.Power Haoh fits better.  I was also thinking about the Kasumi DM grab.  I realized after I coded it that the DM freeze happens at the wrong moment.  I'll fix it for a future release.  As for the Rave damage, all DMs range from the 310-270 damage range (out of 1000) depending on the character and the ability of the DM itself.  I believe Geese's is 305 total for the Rave, so it isn't more overpowered than any other DM in terms of damage.  Maybe it has too many invincibility frames?  Unblockable Autocombos are basically throws with a couple of differences.  The biggest ones are that they can be dodged and the character using them becomes hittable after the first hit of the attack. 

I'll direct the AI stuff to missfairy.  She's actually been working on a new AI system, so some of your concerns might be addressed.  I unfortunately did Kim and Karate.  Karate seems okay, but Kim is crazy.  My lack of experience in this field is most likely to blame for that.  When missfairy has time, she might go back and correct my mistakes.

Thanks for all the comment/opinions Shion.  Just to let you know, I welcome opinions, so long as they aren't intentionally meant to be demeaning/insulting.  I can't expect everyone to think like I do after all.  Makes for a good window into the preferences of others.  I am also glad you enjoyed the releases.  Thanks again.  More to come soon. :)
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Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition (A Little Mugen Project)
#143  April 20, 2008, 12:40:42 am
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Thank you so much for leaving Feedback, Shion! (I really wish more people did)

The evasion/throw/move spam issues are (hopefully) going to be corrected in the next version of my AI. I've been trying to find ways to make AI function more intelligently without having to depend on move spam and stuff like that. - We'll see how things go^^
Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition (A Little Mugen Project)
#144  April 20, 2008, 01:01:51 am
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swipergod. its niwaniwa the sexy ko advocate champion. my input is this.

the game is great. i don't have aproblem with the ai because i read that you're tweaking it.

maybe roll could be toned down a little?

and be sure to make chizurus sexy ko especially sexy!
Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition (A Little Mugen Project)
#145  April 20, 2008, 03:04:37 am
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No problem Swiper and Missfairy, I think your both doing a great job so far.  After all I couldn't find any bugs besides the K` thing.  And the AI is pretty good, for a first draft, I'm sure you'll Iron all the bugs out ;)

Keep up the good work.
Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition (A Little Mugen Project)
#146  April 20, 2008, 04:34:35 am
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lol.  Chizuru's sexy KO will be Anonymous' and [E]'s.  It's very well done and fits the game well so I didn't even have to mod it. :)  Thanks again Shion.  I'm just glad to hear some input. 

I've finished Chizuru, although I'm not as happy as I could be with her.  I can't figure out how to "powerseal" Specials and DMs.  Sander's version would have the opponent get hit every time they tried to attack with one.  The problem there is if an opponent is invincible they won't get hit and their move won't get "sealed".  I've tried a couple things, like a bind state and targetstate changes when specials are activated, but with no success.  So the alternative I've come up with is that Chizuru's powerseals (Level 1 and 3) merely drain 1 or 3 Levels (getpower = -1000 or -3000 respectively) if they connect.  Like I said, I'm not big on that as I'd prefer the actual powerseal, but it's a decent replacement I think.  If anyone has power seal suggestions, please post 'em, cause I'm stuck.

I'll post a video some time tomorrow.
Official KOFE website is up.  Go visit it for all your KOFE needs:

http://mugekofe.web44.net/
Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition (A Little Mugen Project)
#147  April 20, 2008, 10:41:22 am
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there are plenty ways to seal special moves! but you would have to code them in all of your characters seperate.

 maybe you can have something  from a -3 state trigger a target change state whenever an opponent enters a special move state number after getting hit by the super. like if you hit with the super then for the next 10 seconds if the opponent tries a special move it pops them into a state to nullify it

otherwise you would need to go to each character and put something in the trigger to make it to where in order to do the move at all they can not have been hit with chizurus move.
Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition (A Little Mugen Project)
#148  April 20, 2008, 10:18:45 pm
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another way i think of is also requiring you to program it into each charater seperately. so when chizuru hits them with the move, they enter a state which can be set to trigger a var. then you can have one of the triggers for each special move be "var(xx) != (whatever  you assigned)"
Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition (A Little Mugen Project)
#149  April 21, 2008, 02:09:31 am
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I agree with you niwaniwa.  I figured a -3 would cover it (kinda like the way sexykos are programmed).  I was hoping to avoid that because I've already released 12 characters and they wouldn't be compatible with the move.  I'll probably add the code in after I test it a bit for a future release (final release?), but unless there's a way of programming it specifically into Chizuru only, I'll have to use the level drain for now instead.  Actually, the reason I'll be doing Blue Mary as one of the least characters is because of that same reason.  I'll have to go into every character and give them arm and leg snap animations.  It'll be fun!  ......

Here's the Chizuru vid: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8qvzgT0Ac6c

You'll notice a couple of changes.  I tried to blend her with Maki a bit to make her boss worthy.  The teleport and the SDM are Maki style moves.  I've made her drill leap a "seaking" move to save from having 4 separate commands for one attack.  She returns to her '96 style roots, but her illusions DM is 2K3 style (no following up).  It's actually a lot scarier than you think, because none of Chizuru's illusions count as projectiles and her DM illusion can't be hit.  So, for example, Geese could do a Rising Storm, Chizuru could do her illusion dance and if Chizuru's main body is out of range, the illusion will go through the storm and hit Geese.  All for the sake of making her a boss.  Rugal had his cheap grab you out of a roll throws and barrier DM, so this should match hopefully.

I'll get the next character done this week.  Ryo or Angel.  Not sure yet.
Official KOFE website is up.  Go visit it for all your KOFE needs:

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Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition (A Little Mugen Project)
#150  April 22, 2008, 07:36:55 am
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Jin's Ash Crimson has a seal move, perhaps check his code.  His characters are open source too, so If it works there should be no problems using it.
Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition (A Little Mugen Project)
#151  April 22, 2008, 08:00:39 am
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Thanks Shion.  Was trying to figure out what other characters had seals.  I'll check it out.
Official KOFE website is up.  Go visit it for all your KOFE needs:

http://mugekofe.web44.net/
Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition (A Little Mugen Project)
#152  April 22, 2008, 08:03:29 am
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Who's Joe are you planning on using later on?
Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition (A Little Mugen Project)
#153  April 23, 2008, 01:05:03 am
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I have H's Joe.  I think it had a good alternate RB style version in addition to the KOF style.  And I really like his work (although I'm personally not big on the "chose your mode" thing).  I like the explode he has on the tiger kick.  I'll have to add a couple sprites from what I remember, including the RB style tornado for his HSDM (I love it.  It just looks so massive).  I've been reading up on the post you made for your Joe.  I haven't tried your characters yet (I'm over 6 months behind on my mugen creations).  Once I do, I have no doubt that I'll probably learn something from them though.  My Joe will play differently, but I'll probably be able to pick up some of the more technical aspects you mentioned in the character release post.
Official KOFE website is up.  Go visit it for all your KOFE needs:

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Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition (A Little Mugen Project)
#154  April 23, 2008, 04:13:53 am
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lol.  Chizuru's sexy KO will be Anonymous' and [E]'s.  It's very well done and fits the game well so I didn't even have to mod it. :)  Thanks again Shion.  I'm just glad to hear some input. 

I've finished Chizuru, although I'm not as happy as I could be with her.  I can't figure out how to "powerseal" Specials and DMs.  Sander's version would have the opponent get hit every time they tried to attack with one.  The problem there is if an opponent is invincible they won't get hit and their move won't get "sealed".  I've tried a couple things, like a bind state and targetstate changes when specials are activated, but with no success.  So the alternative I've come up with is that Chizuru's powerseals (Level 1 and 3) merely drain 1 or 3 Levels (getpower = -1000 or -3000 respectively) if they connect.  Like I said, I'm not big on that as I'd prefer the actual powerseal, but it's a decent replacement I think.  If anyone has power seal suggestions, please post 'em, cause I'm stuck.

I'll post a video some time tomorrow.


her sexy ko needs to be sexier (i saw their edit)she should loose the belt too


thanks for your comments on my ideas. hopefully you find a good way to make it work!
Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition (A Little Mugen Project)
#155  April 24, 2008, 07:14:32 pm
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For your characters (I didn't look when I tested them), did you standardize all the state numbers?

If so, then abolishing special moves with Chizuru might be far easier than it seems.

It looks like, from the video, you're using the Maki 2K3 style "quick" special move seal?

In my opinion, that should only be a lvl 1 super. Make it something that Chizuru would be looking to spam to keep her opponent on lockdown. Maybe giver her other ones that abolish different abilities?

All I know is draining 3 lvls of super from someone could be deemed rather harsh. I could almost say the same thing for lvl 1's.

Does she actually drain and keep the super or do both characters lose the meter?

I also saw a new super you gave Chizuru. It looks pretty flashy but I think it makes some of her other ones obsolete at that level.

I like the idea of a homing image attack but maybe you can give her also ones that can be sent to specific areas as when I play Chizuru I often use that move to create fear and control space on top of just trying to hit the opponent.
Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition (A Little Mugen Project)
#156  April 24, 2008, 07:59:55 pm
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I think you should just use a var-counter for that. and check for it in the cmd.
Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition (A Little Mugen Project)
#157  April 25, 2008, 02:39:55 am
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All states are standardized for the most part.  Ie) Projectiles are [1000,1099] and specials are [1000,1999] and so on and so on...

[E]. I'd tried using the var counter included in Sander's code already, but just tried to change the effect in the helper.  For some reason, I could only get the hitdef method to work and that method isn't very reliable.  Not sure if you have any suggestions as to what the var should trigger.  targetstate didn't work, I can't bind the character.  I'm thinking I'll have no choice but to add a seal code to every single character.

Dark Symphony.  I also assumed that it would be a simple fix specifically because I coded for simplicity, but I'm still out of my league in terms of getting the code to seal moves properly.  I am in the middle of coding Angel at the moment.  Once she's done, I will return to Chizuru and see if I can figure out a way of making some type of persistent interruption, but unless there's some code out there that can give me an idea of how to proceed, I may be stuck.  I'll have to check Jin's Ash and a few others though.

I reanimated Chizuru's seal to cut out useless frames (make the animation smoother), but keep the pose I preferred ('96-'97 as opposed to '98).  The attack and movement are the same, the animation is just different.  And it is a level 1.  To be honest, Chizuru's already pretty cheap as it is without super pumping her even more.  The new teleport I added, really tips strategy in her favor.  Missfairy initially thought herself that Chizuru might be a bit too weak to be a boss, but after getting used to her control, she agreed that Chizuru may already be cheaper than Rugal as is, which is pretty damn cheap.

The powerseal move as it is right now is intended to be balanced regardless that she's a boss.  At level 1, she does less damage than regular level 1s and it only seals 1 level.  At level 3, it deals less damage than other HSDM and can be airblocked (rare for a fullscreen DM), and removes all 3 levels.  I feel that it makes it somewhat of a gamble to use, but the payoff is huge.  Both only drain the level, they do not absorb them.  Still pretty scary in my book.  I don't feel her SDM makes other DMs obsolete.  It's fast, but rather easy to dodge from a distance and leaves her wide open for quite a few ticks.  It also doesn't control position the same way the illusion dance does with all the multi-hits pushing power.  That move is far better for getting out of a corner situation for example.  And it doesn't drain any levels from the opponent. 

I personally also like the position control aspect they introduced in 2k3, but giving a player 4 choices for 3 of her moves makes her overtly complex in my opinion and the idea of this project is to simplify gameplay a little.  Before making Chizuru, I played through '96 quite a few times as her to get a feel for the cheaper boss version of her and she didn't require positioning.  Chizuru has 6 moves and each one of those moves goes beyond the simple slow/fast or short/far mechanics, with one technically being a projectile, while the other is technically a rush.  In the end, I may even need to tone her down a bit.
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Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition (A Little Mugen Project)
#158  April 29, 2008, 10:50:59 pm
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Quick FYI update.  Angel's at 85%.  I'll probably have a vid up by the weekend.  Would've finished her sooner, but Naruto is such an addictive series.  She's pretty complex.  Even with the revamped move list.  When I throw up the video, I'll appreciate any first impressions people can give me as she's the first radically different character.  After she's done, I'll recheck Chizuru and see what I can do with her and then move on to Ryo.  Ryo should be a breeze because I've already did most of the changes I wanted to do with the alpha version.  He won't have his Mr.Karate sprites because after a thorough inspection, I noticed he uses way to may that are just Takuma with a Ryo head.  Joe will be last.  Chizuru's AI is not yet complete, so I think, realistically, the next 4 won't be released until the end of May.  I'll work on trying to get it done sooner though.  Cheers.
Official KOFE website is up.  Go visit it for all your KOFE needs:

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Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition (A Little Mugen Project)
#159  May 01, 2008, 02:38:07 am
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Angel: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BJ8bdgEN78E

She's the most different from her original counterpart than any other character I've made so far.  I've made her circlet commands and branches follow Kyo's Firepunch style.  However in keeping with the circlet original ability, portions of the weak chain can be comboed from other moves, and her DM will also chain.  You'll see in the video a few combos.  I'm not very good at this style of play, so I botched a couple combos, but you'll get the idea.  Even though it doesn't look it, her HSDM is actually a throw, not a rush.  Anyway, Ryo on the way.  Let me know what you think.
Official KOFE website is up.  Go visit it for all your KOFE needs:

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Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition (A Little Mugen Project)
#160  May 01, 2008, 04:36:43 am
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well....I like the HSDM, it's creative...but I'm probably not best person to comment about this because Angel is one of my favorite characters, And I've mastered her style of game play and like it a lot...So I'm quite biased. 

So my honest first impression:  I'm very dubious about changing her unique moveset,  She's one of the most unique and fun characters I've ever played in Fighting games.  BUT, I'll wait until I get hands on with the character to make any real statements about her game play.