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Lelouch Lamperouge (Updated 2010-07-10) (Read 43477 times)

Started by Seravy, July 03, 2010, 09:48:27 am
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Lelouch Lamperouge (Updated 2010-07-10)
#1  July 03, 2010, 09:48:27 am
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Last Edit: July 10, 2010, 09:06:00 pm by Seravy
Re: Lelouch Lamperouge
#2  July 03, 2010, 12:45:51 pm
Lelouch Lamperouge! i been waiting for it :D *downloading*
Re: Lelouch Lamperouge
#3  July 04, 2010, 07:19:18 am
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inb4 mind control instant kill jokes
Re: Lelouch Lamperouge
#4  July 06, 2010, 06:18:09 am
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WHERE DO YOU EVEN DL HIM I CLICKED EVERYWHERE AND IT KEPT TAKING ME TO THE HOME PAGE

its really ticking me off  >:(
Re: Lelouch Lamperouge
#5  July 06, 2010, 10:02:20 am
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[joke]
....my website requires an INT stat of 90 to use to avoid downloads from non-spellcaster class people. Any less and the link remains invisible :P
[/joke]

Seriously, What do you mean it takes you back to the home page...it takes you to the FAQ page, where the first question is "where did the download page go"...
Why? Because the FAQ must be read for the characters to work. You need to use 1.0 mugen, and set up stuff in mugen.cfg. People who don't read the FAQ complain about problems because they try to play in the wrong mugen version or with wrong settings.

Since "READ THIS FIRST" doesn't seem to be obvious enough, I'll change it to "READ THIS FIRST BEFORE DOWNLOADING", maybe that'll work better.
Re: Lelouch Lamperouge
#6  July 06, 2010, 05:17:59 pm
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Feedback:

- You need to do a better job with the CLSN for the D,D,b. It has a little infinite priority here.

- My infinite detector is screaming a lot. Careful! It says that a combo using D+z,a,a and repeating this all the time can reach such thing. It requires you to move a little so you don't miss, but the stun that D+z gives is enough to reach it. Even that limit you put of attacks (that bar) doesn't work, since it replenishes fully if you do that.

- The mines (D+x) and the sticky bombs (J+x) should disappear after some time. Unfortunately, they stay forever, unless you're hit. Also, these two attacks and including the D,B,c should show an explosion even if the opponent blocks. But it doesn't do that, which is quite strange.

- $B,$D,$F,z is worthless. Impossible that this manages to hit something. Easy to block and this attack misses a lot. Seriously, remove it.

- 1 Hit-KO attack that is unblockable and fullscreen. DO NOT WANT.

- D,D,z is also bad. I mean, it's a stream of helicopters shooting at the ground that lasts too long. You really can't do a lot but to block and try to survive against your opponent, who's immune to that.

- There's a command that says D,F,c but it does nothing. Could you create a readme so we know what commands can be used, please?

- You need to learn how to do an AI. Always the same pattern. Uses the pistol few times, that machine punch, and then uses the grenade launcher and goes closer to you to try to hit you. When he does that, you can strike him easily for a lot of damage. Then he retreats, uses the super that makes a robot appear and use a laser, that can easily be evaded by crouching, and repeat. This is the pattern of the AI, that only requires you to block all the time. And used level 5 AI for that, so that means Normal level. Spammy but totally predictable.

I don't like that this character has that IaMP bar. It's annoying. And it doesn't make sense, since his gameplay is not Touhou style. Well, here you have everything I found. And IMO, I don't understand why it's necessary to make it more difficult for people to find the download link.
Last Edit: July 06, 2010, 05:21:34 pm by Nanashi_1337
Re: Lelouch Lamperouge
#7  July 06, 2010, 09:42:52 pm
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Re: Lelouch Lamperouge
#8  July 07, 2010, 04:46:14 am
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Re: Lelouch Lamperouge
#9  July 07, 2010, 11:36:39 am
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It's been a while since someone actually posted serious feedback. Thanks.

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- You need to do a better job with the CLSN for the D,D,b. It has a little infinite priority here.
You're right...he is using his feet so it makes sense to have a clsn2 on it.
Generally, as I start working with an existing SFF and AIR file (saves a lot of time), unless the clsns look generally badly placed, I usually just keep them the way they are. In Lelocuh's case the clsns on the required anims looked ok, so I probably forgot to check them on a some of his attacks.

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- My infinite detector is screaming a lot. Careful! It says that a combo using D+z,a,a and repeating this all the time can reach such thing. It requires you to move a little so you don't miss, but the stun that D+z gives is enough to reach it. Even that limit you put of attacks (that bar) doesn't work, since it replenishes fully if you do that.

There is no D+z attack, I think you meant D+c actually.
Although the bar doesn't seem to run out, and the infinite is possible to do, damage dampening prevents it from doing over ~400-500 damage...by then, your damage will be dampened to 0 per hit, and to reach that, you'd need to repeat the whole thing like 50+ times successfully. I don't think this is too much of a problem, if you manage to pull it off 50 times, you deserve the 400 damage, but the opponent will be annoyed to hell or even the timer can run out, so I'll fix it by increasing the bar cost of the flash grenade, that way the bar will run out and prevent this.
I'll also add an additional 10% damage dampening to the flash grenade for safety.

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- The mines (D+x) and the sticky bombs (J+x) should disappear after some time. Unfortunately, they stay forever, unless you're hit. Also, these two attacks and including the D,B,c should show an explosion even if the opponent blocks. But it doesn't do that, which is quite strange.
I wanted to add a time limit at first but my friend said not to..guess I shouldn't have listened to him.
Time limit of 15 seconds are added, and guardsparks changed to explosions. You can remove them by firing projectiles that have a clsn2 on them as those would make them detonate.

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- $B,$D,$F,z is worthless. Impossible that this manages to hit something. Easy to block and this attack misses a lot. Seriously, remove it.
It goes on for a long time. If the opponent is guarding for the whole thing, you can try to hit him with attacks with guarding restrictions (unguardable while standing or crouching), without risking him to attack back, so it gives you a great advantage. If the opponent isn't guarding, then he'll get hit quite a few times most likely. Just consider this a move for gaining long term strategic advantage, instead of damaging purposes.

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- 1 Hit-KO attack that is unblockable and fullscreen. DO NOT WANT.
Unfortunately, we are talking about Lelouch here, so he must have one. (even though I don't like these kinds of attacks all that much either)
More importantly, it's not 100% fullscreen : if you are above eye-contact level, it misses. Also it costs a ton of power, and is limited to one use per match...you can't win both rounds with this. Anti-Magic effects or anything capable of preventing a HT type attack can also help, and it can be interrupted as well.
The timeframe for interruption does seem way too small though, I'll try increasing it.


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- D,D,z is also bad. I mean, it's a stream of helicopters shooting at the ground that lasts too long. You really can't do a lot but to block and try to survive against your opponent, who's immune to that.
The concept is similar to B,D,F,z here, except this costs more and is harder to avoid (it needs to be guarded standing). Both of these moves are there mainly for character concept : Lelouch has a huge army at his disposal and can command a whole stream of helicopters at you if he needs to. These kinds of supers match him well.

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- There's a command that says D,F,c but it does nothing. Could you create a readme so we know what commands can be used, please?
There is one. readme.html, did you miss it? It's also available in the info link near the download link.
There is no D,F,c command, one command started out as D,F,c but when I realized the c button is not used for anything, it was simplified to c.

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- You need to learn how to do an AI. Always the same pattern. Uses the pistol few times, that machine punch, and then uses the grenade launcher and goes closer to you to try to hit you. When he does that, you can strike him easily for a lot of damage. Then he retreats, uses the super that makes a robot appear and use a laser, that can easily be evaded by crouching, and repeat. This is the pattern of the AI, that only requires you to block all the time. And used level 5 AI for that, so that means Normal level. Spammy but totally predictable.
Yeah, it's predictable. Lelocuh has a fewer amount of attacks than my usual characters, so he doesn't have all that many for each situation.
For long range, he can only use the pistol (if he has bar), or dash forward (if he hasn't), or use the anchor if you are the the right position.

The dash forward is intentional, and most of my characters do it:
-Physical attacks are the only way if the bar is empty, you need to get close for that.
-It allows a chance of attacking for characters that can't graze and need to use physical combat to win

Generally, AI is more predictable, but has superior reaction time, while human players are less predictable, but have slower reactions.
The only really unpredictable stuff I can think about adding would be making the character dash forward even if there is no need to, or not dashing forward when he could (but then he'd do nothing until the bar fills a bit).
(Btw, try higher levels : he'll save power for using the KO move instead of spending it early, so it's not that simple)
At any difficulty level below 8, the attacks are selected at random from the ones capable of hitting the opponent in that situation...if there is only one of those, then the chance of that one being selected is higher.
Also, as difficulty increases, the chance of attacking also increases (thus reducing the AI's reaction time), so higher levels are more predictable. On lower levels, you won't know when the AI will attack, but it will not happen frequently enough to be of a challenge.

I'll consider changing the triggers on the dash forward for the AI, but that'll affect a large number of characters as they all use the same code.

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I don't like that this character has that IaMP bar. It's annoying. And it doesn't make sense, since his gameplay is not Touhou style. Well, here you have everything I found.
He uses projectile attacks, and the IAMP bar is a proven, working way to limit them from excessively dominating the game.

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And IMO, I don't understand why it's necessary to make it more difficult for people to find the download link.
I don't like receiving questions like

"-Why are the characters crashing?
-What mugenversion do you use?
-Ummm I don't know, it is called winmugen.exe"

or

"-Why are the cards not visible?
-Did you set up the mugen.cfg?
-What's mugen.cfg?"

I was getting these daily before I placed the download link into the FAQ page. No one was reading it.
If players don't read the instructions, the characters won't work for them, and they'll say I'm doing it wrong, when in reality, they didn't use them properly, so I decided to force them into reading it.

Edit : Updated is uploaded.
Last Edit: July 07, 2010, 11:53:27 am by Seravy
Re: Lelouch Lamperouge
#10  July 07, 2010, 12:03:44 pm
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Quote
- 1 Hit-KO attack that is unblockable and fullscreen. DO NOT WANT.
Unfortunately, we are talking about Lelouch here, so he must have one. (even though I don't like these kinds of attacks all that much either)

No, he doesn't.  There is easily a not-broken way to portray his Geass.

Do you know about this?  Some fighting game characters have super moves that have different outcomes depending on whether or not it KO'd the opponent.  The easiest example is Akuma: At the end of his SGS, his back is to the camera.  If the opponent was still alive, he'd return to his fighting stance; if the opponent was KO'd, he'd stay in that pose.

You can apply a similar thing to Lelouch.  For example: A level 3 super, he hits with it.  If it wouldn't KO the victim, the super proceeds at normal; if it would, *then* Lelouch Geasses them at the end of the super as a dramatic finisher.  It'd look awesome without being overpowered.
Re: Lelouch Lamperouge
#11  July 07, 2010, 01:14:42 pm
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The idea is interseting, but then it'd only look awesome. I wouldn't give you the feeling of "Yeah, I'm playing Lelouch, so I can use the Geass, cool!". It would just be an added graphical effect on an otherwise less interesting super move.
I'd give a lame feeling of "the opponent would have been dead from the super anyway, why am I wasting my Geass on it now?"
Besides Lelouch doesn't have a suitable lv3 super for that at the moment.
I think the increased animation time suffices as a nerf ...as long as you keep attacking, using the Geass against you is very risky : If it gets interrupted you lose 5000 power, and probably your chance to win together with it.
If it still proves too powerful, I'll further increase the time.

Of course, nothing can be perfect, especially things based on personal preference. Some people like the coolness of being able to use Geass at will (including myself), while others might prefer a different gameplay where it is just an extra effect when finishing the opponent.
I think people downloading my characters generally fall into the first category though.
Re: Lelouch Lamperouge
#12  July 07, 2010, 01:35:08 pm
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anime accuracy is not a good thing. get it to your head
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Re: Lelouch Lamperouge
#13  July 07, 2010, 01:36:12 pm
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Some people like the coolness of being able to use Geass at will (including myself), while others might prefer a different gameplay where it is just an extra effect when finishing the opponent.
I think people downloading my characters generally fall into the first category though.

Hrm, but you just said that you dont like one hit kos.

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- 1 Hit-KO attack that is unblockable and fullscreen. DO NOT WANT.
Unfortunately, we are talking about Lelouch here, so he must have one. (even though I don't like these kinds of attacks all that much either)

So do you like them or not? BBhood suggestion is good, having the move detect the opponent life and change the anim between one or the other would make it much more likely to be used and seen in an actual fight.
Re: Lelouch Lamperouge
#14  July 07, 2010, 02:05:13 pm
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Quote
Hrm, but you just said that you dont like one hit kos.

I don't like them as a general concept, but I consider anime story accuracy much more important, so I prefer a Lelouch with one than one without.
If it is reasonable expensive, and can be avoided by guarding, jumping, interruption, or some other way that's easy to do, I like them.
If they cannot be guarded, interrupted, avoided, or are undercosted, then I don't.
If they are present on characters where it fits with the character/story/move, then I do, if it doesn't, then I don't.
It's ok to have one on Sailor Saturn (she has power to destroy the world and is the strongest), but not on Sailor Moon. It's ok for Yuyuko, but not for Patchouli. It's ok for Sakura's "The Void" spellcard, but it's not ok for a regular common beam attack, etc...

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So do you like them or not? BBhood suggestion is good, having the move detect the opponent life and change the anim between one or the other would make it much more likely to be used and seen in an actual fight.
Unfortunately Lelouch doesn't have a SGS like move, nor do I have any idea for one at the moment. I can't add this to the helicopter super...
Also, I don't really like this, because that way, it's no longer an ability of the character that can be used, but an additional visual effect instead for a specific situation.
You know, it's like attaching wings to a car and saying "My car is as fast as an airplane, I just don't want to go over the speed limit", when in reality, you couldn't go over 200km/h even if you wanted.
Last Edit: July 07, 2010, 02:09:34 pm by Seravy
Re: Lelouch Lamperouge
#15  July 07, 2010, 02:13:29 pm
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If you really want to give that "I'm playing with Lulu" feeling then he should faint from exhaustion after 30 seconds or maybe less (and being unable to get up on the second round) considering what a wimp he is. The real challenge would be to use his arsenal to win before he faints or whatever.

And if we want to get anal in order for Geass to work it should make direct eye contact so it would be less stupid if it was a thin beam of light and if you're caught in it then Lelouch Vi Brittania commands you... TO DIE!!
Re: Lelouch Lamperouge
#16  July 08, 2010, 04:33:15 am
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I consider anime story accuracy much more important

Seravy makes Broly, he takes a step, the entire planet explodes, instant win!

Of course, I might be exaggerating.....
Re: Lelouch Lamperouge
#17  July 08, 2010, 09:03:45 am
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actually thats pretty much right

anime accurarcy is a stupid and should not be in mugen
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Re: Lelouch Lamperouge
#18  July 08, 2010, 11:25:25 am
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Luckily, I'm not interested in making DBZ characters :D

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Seravy makes Broly, he takes a step, the entire planet explodes, instant win!
That's what power costs are invented for, to avoid this kind of stuff :P
You have to have enough power stock to take that step, lol
Anything can be balanced if it's expensive enough or has a proper drawback...well, almost anything...
Re: Lelouch Lamperouge
#19  July 08, 2010, 12:41:29 pm
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that would only be fair if he needed 99 bars for it and has kol speed power gain
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Re: Lelouch Lamperouge
#20  July 08, 2010, 12:45:51 pm
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