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Lelouch Lamperouge (Updated 2010-07-10) (Read 42675 times)

Started by Seravy, July 03, 2010, 09:48:27 am
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Lelouch Lamperouge (Updated 2010-07-10)
#1  July 03, 2010, 09:48:27 am
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Last Edit: July 10, 2010, 09:06:00 pm by Seravy
Re: Lelouch Lamperouge
#2  July 03, 2010, 12:45:51 pm
Lelouch Lamperouge! i been waiting for it :D *downloading*
Re: Lelouch Lamperouge
#3  July 04, 2010, 07:19:18 am
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inb4 mind control instant kill jokes
Re: Lelouch Lamperouge
#4  July 06, 2010, 06:18:09 am
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WHERE DO YOU EVEN DL HIM I CLICKED EVERYWHERE AND IT KEPT TAKING ME TO THE HOME PAGE

its really ticking me off  >:(
Re: Lelouch Lamperouge
#5  July 06, 2010, 10:02:20 am
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[joke]
....my website requires an INT stat of 90 to use to avoid downloads from non-spellcaster class people. Any less and the link remains invisible :P
[/joke]

Seriously, What do you mean it takes you back to the home page...it takes you to the FAQ page, where the first question is "where did the download page go"...
Why? Because the FAQ must be read for the characters to work. You need to use 1.0 mugen, and set up stuff in mugen.cfg. People who don't read the FAQ complain about problems because they try to play in the wrong mugen version or with wrong settings.

Since "READ THIS FIRST" doesn't seem to be obvious enough, I'll change it to "READ THIS FIRST BEFORE DOWNLOADING", maybe that'll work better.
Re: Lelouch Lamperouge
#6  July 06, 2010, 05:17:59 pm
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Feedback:

- You need to do a better job with the CLSN for the D,D,b. It has a little infinite priority here.

- My infinite detector is screaming a lot. Careful! It says that a combo using D+z,a,a and repeating this all the time can reach such thing. It requires you to move a little so you don't miss, but the stun that D+z gives is enough to reach it. Even that limit you put of attacks (that bar) doesn't work, since it replenishes fully if you do that.

- The mines (D+x) and the sticky bombs (J+x) should disappear after some time. Unfortunately, they stay forever, unless you're hit. Also, these two attacks and including the D,B,c should show an explosion even if the opponent blocks. But it doesn't do that, which is quite strange.

- $B,$D,$F,z is worthless. Impossible that this manages to hit something. Easy to block and this attack misses a lot. Seriously, remove it.

- 1 Hit-KO attack that is unblockable and fullscreen. DO NOT WANT.

- D,D,z is also bad. I mean, it's a stream of helicopters shooting at the ground that lasts too long. You really can't do a lot but to block and try to survive against your opponent, who's immune to that.

- There's a command that says D,F,c but it does nothing. Could you create a readme so we know what commands can be used, please?

- You need to learn how to do an AI. Always the same pattern. Uses the pistol few times, that machine punch, and then uses the grenade launcher and goes closer to you to try to hit you. When he does that, you can strike him easily for a lot of damage. Then he retreats, uses the super that makes a robot appear and use a laser, that can easily be evaded by crouching, and repeat. This is the pattern of the AI, that only requires you to block all the time. And used level 5 AI for that, so that means Normal level. Spammy but totally predictable.

I don't like that this character has that IaMP bar. It's annoying. And it doesn't make sense, since his gameplay is not Touhou style. Well, here you have everything I found. And IMO, I don't understand why it's necessary to make it more difficult for people to find the download link.
Last Edit: July 06, 2010, 05:21:34 pm by Nanashi_1337
Re: Lelouch Lamperouge
#7  July 06, 2010, 09:42:52 pm
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Re: Lelouch Lamperouge
#8  July 07, 2010, 04:46:14 am
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Re: Lelouch Lamperouge
#9  July 07, 2010, 11:36:39 am
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It's been a while since someone actually posted serious feedback. Thanks.

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- You need to do a better job with the CLSN for the D,D,b. It has a little infinite priority here.
You're right...he is using his feet so it makes sense to have a clsn2 on it.
Generally, as I start working with an existing SFF and AIR file (saves a lot of time), unless the clsns look generally badly placed, I usually just keep them the way they are. In Lelocuh's case the clsns on the required anims looked ok, so I probably forgot to check them on a some of his attacks.

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- My infinite detector is screaming a lot. Careful! It says that a combo using D+z,a,a and repeating this all the time can reach such thing. It requires you to move a little so you don't miss, but the stun that D+z gives is enough to reach it. Even that limit you put of attacks (that bar) doesn't work, since it replenishes fully if you do that.

There is no D+z attack, I think you meant D+c actually.
Although the bar doesn't seem to run out, and the infinite is possible to do, damage dampening prevents it from doing over ~400-500 damage...by then, your damage will be dampened to 0 per hit, and to reach that, you'd need to repeat the whole thing like 50+ times successfully. I don't think this is too much of a problem, if you manage to pull it off 50 times, you deserve the 400 damage, but the opponent will be annoyed to hell or even the timer can run out, so I'll fix it by increasing the bar cost of the flash grenade, that way the bar will run out and prevent this.
I'll also add an additional 10% damage dampening to the flash grenade for safety.

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- The mines (D+x) and the sticky bombs (J+x) should disappear after some time. Unfortunately, they stay forever, unless you're hit. Also, these two attacks and including the D,B,c should show an explosion even if the opponent blocks. But it doesn't do that, which is quite strange.
I wanted to add a time limit at first but my friend said not to..guess I shouldn't have listened to him.
Time limit of 15 seconds are added, and guardsparks changed to explosions. You can remove them by firing projectiles that have a clsn2 on them as those would make them detonate.

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- $B,$D,$F,z is worthless. Impossible that this manages to hit something. Easy to block and this attack misses a lot. Seriously, remove it.
It goes on for a long time. If the opponent is guarding for the whole thing, you can try to hit him with attacks with guarding restrictions (unguardable while standing or crouching), without risking him to attack back, so it gives you a great advantage. If the opponent isn't guarding, then he'll get hit quite a few times most likely. Just consider this a move for gaining long term strategic advantage, instead of damaging purposes.

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- 1 Hit-KO attack that is unblockable and fullscreen. DO NOT WANT.
Unfortunately, we are talking about Lelouch here, so he must have one. (even though I don't like these kinds of attacks all that much either)
More importantly, it's not 100% fullscreen : if you are above eye-contact level, it misses. Also it costs a ton of power, and is limited to one use per match...you can't win both rounds with this. Anti-Magic effects or anything capable of preventing a HT type attack can also help, and it can be interrupted as well.
The timeframe for interruption does seem way too small though, I'll try increasing it.


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- D,D,z is also bad. I mean, it's a stream of helicopters shooting at the ground that lasts too long. You really can't do a lot but to block and try to survive against your opponent, who's immune to that.
The concept is similar to B,D,F,z here, except this costs more and is harder to avoid (it needs to be guarded standing). Both of these moves are there mainly for character concept : Lelouch has a huge army at his disposal and can command a whole stream of helicopters at you if he needs to. These kinds of supers match him well.

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- There's a command that says D,F,c but it does nothing. Could you create a readme so we know what commands can be used, please?
There is one. readme.html, did you miss it? It's also available in the info link near the download link.
There is no D,F,c command, one command started out as D,F,c but when I realized the c button is not used for anything, it was simplified to c.

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- You need to learn how to do an AI. Always the same pattern. Uses the pistol few times, that machine punch, and then uses the grenade launcher and goes closer to you to try to hit you. When he does that, you can strike him easily for a lot of damage. Then he retreats, uses the super that makes a robot appear and use a laser, that can easily be evaded by crouching, and repeat. This is the pattern of the AI, that only requires you to block all the time. And used level 5 AI for that, so that means Normal level. Spammy but totally predictable.
Yeah, it's predictable. Lelocuh has a fewer amount of attacks than my usual characters, so he doesn't have all that many for each situation.
For long range, he can only use the pistol (if he has bar), or dash forward (if he hasn't), or use the anchor if you are the the right position.

The dash forward is intentional, and most of my characters do it:
-Physical attacks are the only way if the bar is empty, you need to get close for that.
-It allows a chance of attacking for characters that can't graze and need to use physical combat to win

Generally, AI is more predictable, but has superior reaction time, while human players are less predictable, but have slower reactions.
The only really unpredictable stuff I can think about adding would be making the character dash forward even if there is no need to, or not dashing forward when he could (but then he'd do nothing until the bar fills a bit).
(Btw, try higher levels : he'll save power for using the KO move instead of spending it early, so it's not that simple)
At any difficulty level below 8, the attacks are selected at random from the ones capable of hitting the opponent in that situation...if there is only one of those, then the chance of that one being selected is higher.
Also, as difficulty increases, the chance of attacking also increases (thus reducing the AI's reaction time), so higher levels are more predictable. On lower levels, you won't know when the AI will attack, but it will not happen frequently enough to be of a challenge.

I'll consider changing the triggers on the dash forward for the AI, but that'll affect a large number of characters as they all use the same code.

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I don't like that this character has that IaMP bar. It's annoying. And it doesn't make sense, since his gameplay is not Touhou style. Well, here you have everything I found.
He uses projectile attacks, and the IAMP bar is a proven, working way to limit them from excessively dominating the game.

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And IMO, I don't understand why it's necessary to make it more difficult for people to find the download link.
I don't like receiving questions like

"-Why are the characters crashing?
-What mugenversion do you use?
-Ummm I don't know, it is called winmugen.exe"

or

"-Why are the cards not visible?
-Did you set up the mugen.cfg?
-What's mugen.cfg?"

I was getting these daily before I placed the download link into the FAQ page. No one was reading it.
If players don't read the instructions, the characters won't work for them, and they'll say I'm doing it wrong, when in reality, they didn't use them properly, so I decided to force them into reading it.

Edit : Updated is uploaded.
Last Edit: July 07, 2010, 11:53:27 am by Seravy
Re: Lelouch Lamperouge
#10  July 07, 2010, 12:03:44 pm
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Quote
- 1 Hit-KO attack that is unblockable and fullscreen. DO NOT WANT.
Unfortunately, we are talking about Lelouch here, so he must have one. (even though I don't like these kinds of attacks all that much either)

No, he doesn't.  There is easily a not-broken way to portray his Geass.

Do you know about this?  Some fighting game characters have super moves that have different outcomes depending on whether or not it KO'd the opponent.  The easiest example is Akuma: At the end of his SGS, his back is to the camera.  If the opponent was still alive, he'd return to his fighting stance; if the opponent was KO'd, he'd stay in that pose.

You can apply a similar thing to Lelouch.  For example: A level 3 super, he hits with it.  If it wouldn't KO the victim, the super proceeds at normal; if it would, *then* Lelouch Geasses them at the end of the super as a dramatic finisher.  It'd look awesome without being overpowered.
Re: Lelouch Lamperouge
#11  July 07, 2010, 01:14:42 pm
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The idea is interseting, but then it'd only look awesome. I wouldn't give you the feeling of "Yeah, I'm playing Lelouch, so I can use the Geass, cool!". It would just be an added graphical effect on an otherwise less interesting super move.
I'd give a lame feeling of "the opponent would have been dead from the super anyway, why am I wasting my Geass on it now?"
Besides Lelouch doesn't have a suitable lv3 super for that at the moment.
I think the increased animation time suffices as a nerf ...as long as you keep attacking, using the Geass against you is very risky : If it gets interrupted you lose 5000 power, and probably your chance to win together with it.
If it still proves too powerful, I'll further increase the time.

Of course, nothing can be perfect, especially things based on personal preference. Some people like the coolness of being able to use Geass at will (including myself), while others might prefer a different gameplay where it is just an extra effect when finishing the opponent.
I think people downloading my characters generally fall into the first category though.
Re: Lelouch Lamperouge
#12  July 07, 2010, 01:35:08 pm
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anime accuracy is not a good thing. get it to your head
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Re: Lelouch Lamperouge
#13  July 07, 2010, 01:36:12 pm
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Some people like the coolness of being able to use Geass at will (including myself), while others might prefer a different gameplay where it is just an extra effect when finishing the opponent.
I think people downloading my characters generally fall into the first category though.

Hrm, but you just said that you dont like one hit kos.

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- 1 Hit-KO attack that is unblockable and fullscreen. DO NOT WANT.
Unfortunately, we are talking about Lelouch here, so he must have one. (even though I don't like these kinds of attacks all that much either)

So do you like them or not? BBhood suggestion is good, having the move detect the opponent life and change the anim between one or the other would make it much more likely to be used and seen in an actual fight.
Re: Lelouch Lamperouge
#14  July 07, 2010, 02:05:13 pm
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Hrm, but you just said that you dont like one hit kos.

I don't like them as a general concept, but I consider anime story accuracy much more important, so I prefer a Lelouch with one than one without.
If it is reasonable expensive, and can be avoided by guarding, jumping, interruption, or some other way that's easy to do, I like them.
If they cannot be guarded, interrupted, avoided, or are undercosted, then I don't.
If they are present on characters where it fits with the character/story/move, then I do, if it doesn't, then I don't.
It's ok to have one on Sailor Saturn (she has power to destroy the world and is the strongest), but not on Sailor Moon. It's ok for Yuyuko, but not for Patchouli. It's ok for Sakura's "The Void" spellcard, but it's not ok for a regular common beam attack, etc...

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So do you like them or not? BBhood suggestion is good, having the move detect the opponent life and change the anim between one or the other would make it much more likely to be used and seen in an actual fight.
Unfortunately Lelouch doesn't have a SGS like move, nor do I have any idea for one at the moment. I can't add this to the helicopter super...
Also, I don't really like this, because that way, it's no longer an ability of the character that can be used, but an additional visual effect instead for a specific situation.
You know, it's like attaching wings to a car and saying "My car is as fast as an airplane, I just don't want to go over the speed limit", when in reality, you couldn't go over 200km/h even if you wanted.
Last Edit: July 07, 2010, 02:09:34 pm by Seravy
Re: Lelouch Lamperouge
#15  July 07, 2010, 02:13:29 pm
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If you really want to give that "I'm playing with Lulu" feeling then he should faint from exhaustion after 30 seconds or maybe less (and being unable to get up on the second round) considering what a wimp he is. The real challenge would be to use his arsenal to win before he faints or whatever.

And if we want to get anal in order for Geass to work it should make direct eye contact so it would be less stupid if it was a thin beam of light and if you're caught in it then Lelouch Vi Brittania commands you... TO DIE!!
Re: Lelouch Lamperouge
#16  July 08, 2010, 04:33:15 am
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I consider anime story accuracy much more important

Seravy makes Broly, he takes a step, the entire planet explodes, instant win!

Of course, I might be exaggerating.....
Re: Lelouch Lamperouge
#17  July 08, 2010, 09:03:45 am
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actually thats pretty much right

anime accurarcy is a stupid and should not be in mugen
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Re: Lelouch Lamperouge
#18  July 08, 2010, 11:25:25 am
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Luckily, I'm not interested in making DBZ characters :D

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Seravy makes Broly, he takes a step, the entire planet explodes, instant win!
That's what power costs are invented for, to avoid this kind of stuff :P
You have to have enough power stock to take that step, lol
Anything can be balanced if it's expensive enough or has a proper drawback...well, almost anything...
Re: Lelouch Lamperouge
#19  July 08, 2010, 12:41:29 pm
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that would only be fair if he needed 99 bars for it and has kol speed power gain
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Re: Lelouch Lamperouge
#20  July 08, 2010, 12:45:51 pm
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Re: Lelouch Lamperouge
#21  July 08, 2010, 01:25:09 pm
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The CLSN for the 1 Hit KO are retarded. They're too big. You think it's easy for any character to evade this? Also, the attack doesn't give you time to evade it, so it's even worse. The moment it's activated you're screwed. Doesn't matter that it requires a lot of power. Make more restrictions or just stop making it a 1 Hit KO.
Re: Lelouch Lamperouge
#22  July 08, 2010, 08:09:15 pm
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The timeframe for interruption does seem way too small though, I'll try increasing it.
As I said, I did increase it. Should be enough to jump.
As for the clsn...that much is necessary, small characters are still within range at that height because their head is much closer to their feet.

However, it certainly needs a fix as slower and smaller jumps are still in hit range.
Adding a trigger of enemynear,pos Y+ enemynear,const(size.head.pos.y) >=-120 or something around that sounds like a better solution instead of changing the clsn1 box. It would make the move have no effect on helpers if the opponent is jumping unfortunately, but that isn't much of a problem.
With it being said, I'll do that, then.

(PS : sorry for not noticing it still hitting characters jumping slowly, and thanks for pointing it out)

(PS2 : Fixed version uploaded. Geass Hitdef will not be activated if opponent's head is above -130 position. It was perfectly avoidable with every character I tried including the one with the slowest and smallest jump. Very undersized characters (the kind that's from 8bit games and is like 30 pixels tall) might get still hit if their jump isn't high enough, but I can't do much against that.)

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I am now going to code an attack that goes EXACTLY through that space in your CLSNs just to prove how fucking stupid they are.
Blame Minoo if that 3 pixel wide gap is your problem, he did it that way. Yeah, sure I could fix it (and probably will), but that isn't exactly a high priority issue. I've seen a lot worse clsn2s on many characters I've worked on already.
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Generally, as I start working with an existing SFF and AIR file (saves a lot of time), unless the clsns look generally badly placed, I usually just keep them the way they are.

(note for everyone: I'm bad at paying attention to details (I'm the type who doesn't even notice being talked to if I'm thinking about something else), and I'm also tired when I get to finishing a character and usually don't notice problems if they are not too obvious. Keep the feedback coming for future characters as well, because otherwise I might not notice myself.
As long as you do not ask for attacks to be removed or whole characters to be rewritten, I'll most likely listen. I do want my characters to be balanced, although I want them to be balanced to my own standards.)
Last Edit: July 08, 2010, 08:41:30 pm by Seravy
Re: Lelouch Lamperouge
#23  July 08, 2010, 08:54:05 pm
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I do want my characters to be balanced, although I want them to be balanced to my own standards.
After testing various of your previous works, I could say that is a contradiction, IMO...

I saw Code Geass and I know very well what Lelouch could do with his Geass. And I say that red clsn is very wrong, since the "attack" is with his eyes only, the clsn is more for the entire body instead eyes only, like a psychic attack (like Tetsuo Shima from AKIRA). Also his Geass don't make damage, just controls the subject for a few time, so I don't see the point of make it an instant kill power, that isn't anime accurance.

For me, a real "attack" with his Geass (and accurate to the anime) is to paralyze the enemy (like Lelouch saying "don't move at all, allow me to attack/kill you", and the clsn should be just to the size of his head, even maybe with the same distance you made in weight... and also could be blockable, since the hands in many cases avoids to look the enemy, that makes Geass useless with an enemy who don't look Lelouch
Re: Lelouch Lamperouge
#24  July 08, 2010, 09:32:03 pm
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Quote
I am now going to code an attack that goes EXACTLY through that space in your CLSNs just to prove how fucking stupid they are.
Blame Minoo i
NO.

YOU edited this character. YOU released this character. YOU hosted it on YOUR site. It is now YOUR responsibility.
Re: Lelouch Lamperouge
#25  July 08, 2010, 09:51:05 pm
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"Multiple exclamation marks are a sure sign of a diseased mind."

"Okay, okay. So you put a Nazi on the Moon. Fuck you, Moon."
Re: Lelouch Lamperouge
#26  July 08, 2010, 10:57:32 pm
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wait, the power is just a hypnotism thing?

That could work even as a throw. , throw a stare towards ( not fullscreen, no one can hit someone with a stare fullscreen unless they are shooting beams) and then have the opponent walk around by itself and throwing itself down repeatedly.
Re: Lelouch Lamperouge
#27  July 08, 2010, 11:17:42 pm
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Exactly, the power to control minds and make with the hypnotized subject what he wanted. In the first chapter, when Leluoch is in a dead end by soldiers who wanted to kill him, C.C. gave her the Geass. And then Lelouch uses the new power to order soldiers shoot themselves in the head, and them makes the order even happily and without any objection.

In certain way, Lelouch is way similar to Light Yagami. When friends recommended me the anime, they told me Code Geass is a mixture between Gundam (or any other mecha series) with Death Note. And when I saw for first time, I confirmed this...
Re: Lelouch Lamperouge
#28  July 08, 2010, 11:32:25 pm
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Re: Lelouch Lamperouge
#29  July 08, 2010, 11:44:55 pm
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Right, or like SSIV's (and above) Honourable Death. But in this case, it should be better to keep stay to be ready to get hit. What Seravy did is more like Tetsuo does in AKIRA manga (and in some parts of the anime), where with his power makes to explode the head or the body of the enemy, that should be an instant kill... or a fatality/fatal move...
Re: Lelouch Lamperouge
#30  July 08, 2010, 11:48:16 pm
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that wouldnt happen even if those chars got adapted, tetsuo gameplay would be more akin to a telekinetic wave that lifted the ground or slammed the opponent against the wall, gameplay reworks what the characters are to work cinematically with their effects.
( I actually had idea enginereed how i would adapt a tetsuo from K9999 )
Re: Lelouch Lamperouge
#31  July 09, 2010, 12:18:26 am
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( I actually had idea enginereed how i would adapt a tetsuo from K9999 )
Indeed, one of my projects, Another k9999, is more a Tetsuo adaptation than his k9999 counterpart... i think I should make again one of my WIP topics apart of Jim's one :P
Re: Lelouch Lamperouge
#32  July 09, 2010, 12:29:31 am
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you'll fuck it up you'll fuck it up you'll fuck it up you'll fuck it up you'll fuck it up you'll fuck it up you'll fuck it up you'll fuck it up you'll fuck it up
Re: Lelouch Lamperouge
#33  July 09, 2010, 02:55:09 am
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why doesnt seravy just make lelouch's hypnotism move as if he were using a flash granade to stun the oppenent; it would be more fitting :thinking:
At the bottom the picture says "Do not touch the edges of the sign; also the bridge is out ahead"
Re: Lelouch Lamperouge
#34  July 09, 2010, 04:22:28 am
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Since people are complaining i suggest make it avoidable by crouching, make the command for it ridiculous, and or make it so you can only do the attack when you have less than 30% hp left.
Re: Lelouch Lamperouge
#35  July 09, 2010, 08:43:14 am
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Whatever. The command is already one of the hardest my characters will ever have, avoidable by jumping is just the same as crouching except you need the up button instead of the down one. Making it work below 30% life is...well..I never liked that restriction, so no.
Clsn1 doesn't matter anymore as the hitdef triggers based on opponent's head position.
Making it guardable is also unnecessary. That'd basically mean you can avoid it by pressing back instead of up. I prefer up, it makes the attack more unique and interesting.
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YOU edited this character. YOU released this character. YOU hosted it on YOUR site. It is now YOUR responsibility.
That's why I WILL do it. I can't spend 24 hours a day on mugen you know? Sometimes you have to wait for things, and this is one of those.
While FIXING IT is my responsibility, messing it up in the first place IS MINOOS. Complain after I said "I'm done with fixing the clsns", until then it's pointless.

Just because I'm responsible for the 25 characters I have released doesn't mean I have to spend the rest of my life playing them and looking for bugs to fix. It also doesn't mean whenever a problem is reported I have to fix it in 10 minutes from the report. While I usually do it very fast, you have no right whatsoever to demand that. I'm doing this FOR FREE.

(*goes to work on clsns)
Re: Lelouch Lamperouge
#36  July 09, 2010, 09:02:03 am
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Hmm should i download this character.... The edit of an already exsisting Lelouch seems great (considering the original needed fixing up.) However i'm afraid the edit will have the same outcome as CCirons Card Captor Sakura....

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Re: Lelouch Lamperouge
#37  July 09, 2010, 11:28:05 am
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Well, IF I'm already into it (commenting on the forum again)
I like where your work of often improving editing others unfinished works,
it brings new hope.

And sure, how you want your stuff to come out/work out is still up to you, the creator.
The other matter of the public release is just if people will like it besides yourself.

The Geass of Lelouche required eye contact (not every type of Geass requires that).
It's not just lelouche staring at someone and it will work,
they even blocked or tried to block his Geass in various moments by avoiding eye contact.

This attack needs an opportunity to function and won't work for a second time to one person.
Another thing to point out is that the commands of the Geass are often Fatal or at least makes the opponent lose/forfeit.

The closest thing you can get would probably be a fatality, I am no fan of it these, but it might work.

This might be an idea:

- Lelouch must activate his Geass by taking off his contact (lenses) like the Instantkills from Guilty   Gear series.

- By this you trigger a do not kill.

- instead you get a fatality like screen when you opponent should have been killed by your last attack.

- Now you can hit the stunned character to kill him or use the geass in various ways.
For example make them suicide or take them under your command ect.

This will make the Geass an hidden option, like a bonus feature in this way.

Well, talking about accuracy, Lelouche doesn't know how to fight, not that I know at least.
I've never seen his handle any other weapons than a wooden gun and a handgun.
So I would call balance over accuracy (any day).
Last Edit: July 09, 2010, 11:31:19 am by Rai Tei
Re: Lelouch Lamperouge
#38  July 09, 2010, 01:13:31 pm
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I was just thinking about the Geass commanding the opponent to forfeit the match. Basically a custom stated attack where the opponent walks away from the screen and his loss is declared.
While it is great to avoid unnecessary violence, it won't solve the other problems though. It's still a onehit KO. The other problem with that is the voice...I don't remember if he ever commanded anyone to forfeit a duel in the anime, and the voice currently available clearly days "to die".

I myself thought guarding against the Geass is OK at first, then I was told that this kind of stuff would happen :
"-Lelouch vi Britannia comm...(opponent closes eyes or covers face with hand)
-Ouch...hey it's not fair to sneak up on me while I can't see and hit me from behind (opens eyes)
-...commands you to die! (opponent dies)"
It was convincing...if you close your eyes and can't see in a fight you are  already dead anyway (unless you are some martial arts grandmaster who can feel the presence of their opponent blinded). So I decided against the guardable version and went for the jump too high for eye contact version instead.

On another note, I've added a new poll to my site "Do you want the AI to be less predictable". Poll results will be applied to Lelouch and all other characters.

Quote
Hmm should i download this character.... The edit of an already exsisting Lelouch seems great (considering the original needed fixing up.) However i'm afraid the edit will have the same outcome as CCirons Card Captor Sakura....
No need to worry, I made that as my very first character with no experience whatsoever, so it was bound to end up horrible. My current Sakura is a lot better.

Back on topic of the instant kill, it's only useful against AI controlled opponents. If you want to use it against a human player having a minimum of intelligence, you have to prevent him from jumping first, which in itself is like almost impossible to do.
Since human VS human balance is the more important one, I think it's fine this way. Human VS AI is not balanced anyway because of the different advantages of the two players (human is smarter, but the AI needs less to time to react), and of course there is always a risk of the AI jumping and avoiding the attack anyway. And that is assuming you managed to find a time when the opponent is on the ground and no projectiles are coming your way to interrupt the attack until you enter the command+what the animation time takes.
Last Edit: July 09, 2010, 01:21:40 pm by Seravy
Re: Lelouch Lamperouge
#39  July 09, 2010, 06:54:02 pm
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Why don't you just change command? There's a DS Code Geass game with some voice clip here and there with different orders. I'm sure that "Dance" or "Sleep" could work too.
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Re: Lelouch Lamperouge
#40  July 09, 2010, 07:10:07 pm
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Except the chance of every mugen character having an appropriate dancing animation for that is zero. Doing it is for full-game only.
Sleep would be ok (some of the required sprites work for that from group 5040) but kinda lame...commanding the opponent to forfeit the match is more elegant.
Now question is, do I want to do this so much as to look for a DS emulator (whichever console that is), a download source of that game, and hope it includes a "Give up!" command? Definitely not. Do I want to rewatch the 48 episodes of the anime to find one? No, not really. Lelouch was made for public demand, but he isn't too high on my list of personal priorities, definitely not high enough to spend so much time on a minor detail. The die command should work fine, he used that the most often in the anime too.
Re: Lelouch Lamperouge
#41  July 09, 2010, 07:13:56 pm
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Guy, if you just want to do it as it is and use whatever justification you want, why are you even asking opinions to begin with?

You seem to consider one hit kos elegant on gameplay, when you have neither animations to justify it nor anything else. It doesnt matter what voices you have or not have, just what you want to do.
If what you want to do is one hit kos then go for it, but you dont need to try to give big loop arounds to justify yourself and the decision as being somehow more elegant because it has a one hit ko.
Just do what you like.
Re: Lelouch Lamperouge
#42  July 09, 2010, 08:57:01 pm
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I hate 1 Hit KOes, because they're unnecessary. Another thing is a finisher, like a Zetsumei Ougi or an Astral Finish, which I love. Just make it that way if you want to put it.

Btw, you said you can evade it by jumping. Does that mean the attack cannot hit opponents that are jumping/flying, or it's just that the CLSN cannot reach you when you're in the air? What about opponents that have been launched to the air and cannot recover? And is it an OTG?
Re: Lelouch Lamperouge
#43  July 09, 2010, 09:33:40 pm
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Micheal Jackson did well...

and those commands remind me of "Humiliation" and "Friendship?"
Re: Lelouch Lamperouge
#44  July 09, 2010, 11:47:22 pm
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Quote
Btw, you said you can evade it by jumping. Does that mean the attack cannot hit opponents that are jumping/flying, or it's just that the CLSN cannot reach you when you're in the air?

Ummm...did you really read my replies? I guess not.

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Geass Hitdef will not be activated if opponent's head is above -130 position.
If your character's head is above the half of the screen it just doesn't do anything. Regardless of how your character got there and what it is doing.
It checks character position, adds the head position to that, and if the result is below that position, it activates the attack, otherwise not.

Thinking about it if you happen to play a freaking tall character it might even be immune without jumping. I guess I'll have to fix that by adding a StateType=A condition to the trigger.

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And is it an OTG?
What's OTG? One-Time-Geass? Yeah, if it hits it cannot be used again in that match. If it misses, it can be used again, but the power gets spent anyway, so you won't be able to most of the time.

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Guy, if you just want to do it as it is and use whatever justification you want, why are you even asking opinions to begin with?
Perhaps because I fixed about every other issue mentioned here.
Perhaps because I did put up a poll about AI predictability and will change it if that option wins.
Perhaps because I do care, if it's about real problems and not personal preferences. Liking projectiles, onehit Kos, grazing, danmaku bars and the like is a personal preference, and for those I have my own (or if not, I usually manage to find it out in time). If it's about misplaced clsns, stupid AI, bugs, infinites, or other PROBLEMS, I'll do something about those. Having a 1-hit KO is not a problem, it's a feature. Liking on not liking it is up to you, but it's still not a bug just because you don't like it.
It being impossible to avoid by jumping was a bug (or more like I didn't pay attention as usual), and was fixed.
It being too fast to avoid was also a problem that got fixed.
The move itself existing, and doing what I intended it to do is not a problem, and I'm not looking for ideas to replace it. Even if some people don't like it, and want to suggest stuff for me to replace it with.

Anyway, I think I started the whole thing by expressing that I want the Geass to be a one-hit KO. Either by "kill", or by "forfeit". I personally prefer "forfeit" more, but "kill" is a better fit with the character and is already done meaning less work. So in the end, I'll stay with that one.

I didn't ask "hey I'm making a character, shall it have a one-hit KO?". I asked "hey I made this character, and it has these moves, including this one-hit KO! Did I overlook anything important that needs to be fixed in it?"
If people don't understand the difference and suggest ways of replacing it, of course I won't do that.
Ok, I should have said "I want Lelouch to have a one hit KO!" instead of...wait I did say that. Why people suggested ways to replace it, and why I reacted to that I don't know. My defensive nature acted up again. I should have just ignored those suggestions.
Re: Lelouch Lamperouge
#45  July 10, 2010, 05:36:22 am
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They're methods of making a more fair and balanced character that fits comfortably in any fighting environment.

You're going to have to start specifying that your characters should only be used against your characters as well.


In M.U.G.E.N there is no magic button

They say a little knowledge is a dangerous thing, but it's not one half so bad as a lot of ignorance.
Re: Lelouch Lamperouge
#46  July 10, 2010, 08:09:07 am
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Make it a full-game that nobody will play so that they can never make that mistake.
Re: Lelouch Lamperouge
#47  July 10, 2010, 08:10:15 am
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When Lelouch commands a victim to die, does the victim use the Bishamon suicide animation if they have it?  That'd be a nice touch if they did.
Re: Lelouch Lamperouge
#48  July 10, 2010, 08:52:49 am
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Quote
You're going to have to start specifying that your characters should only be used against your characters as well.
That's in the FAQ already, although not exact in this way. There are characters that are not mine and work perfectly fine against my stuff, most Touhous for example. Anyway, it's mentioned in the FAQ that my character use a different from usual style and should be used in a mugen that has appropriate characters for that.
I think this should be common sense for mugen...if you are going to download characters of different games, it's your responsibility to find out if they are balanced against each other or not. It's a myth that every character should be balanced against every other, and it is impossible to achieve it without excessively limiting options.

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Make it a full-game that nobody will play so that they can never make that mistake.
This is already covered in the FAQ too. Mugen lacks the features for proper full-games currently.
Besides a lot of people like my characters, so it's not a mistake. It's the downloader's responsibility to decide what they can use my characters for.
Somehow I feel that you joined the ranks of my hater group...may I recommend to avoid posting in my topics in the future?

(Note : READ THE DAMN FAQ, PEOPLE!)

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When Lelouch commands a victim to die, does the victim use the Bishamon suicide animation if they have it?  That'd be a nice touch if they did.
If you give me a bit more info, I'll add it.
(Like, what character uses it, and what's the standard anim number for it)
Last Edit: July 10, 2010, 09:04:16 am by Seravy
Re: Lelouch Lamperouge
#49  July 10, 2010, 01:56:01 pm
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Quote
When Lelouch commands a victim to die, does the victim use the Bishamon suicide animation if they have it?  That'd be a nice touch if they did.
If you give me a bit more info, I'll add it.
(Like, what character uses it, and what's the standard anim number for it)

The anim number is 7694, it's exactly 111 ticks (with the damage part occurring at 50 ticks), and it doesn't loop.  The one and only character to invoke this anim is 3ha's Bishamon (who doesn't quite work right in WinMUGEN without a little editing), and there are only a scant few characters that actually use this anim (Yoma is one of those few).
Re: Lelouch Lamperouge
#50  July 10, 2010, 02:16:15 pm
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Ok, I'll implement it, then.
May I ask for a link to your Yoma character to have something to test it on?
The topic I found about it had a broken link.

Unfortunately damage needs to be done though the hitdef to work on characters not having this anim, so I'll have to use Nobardisplay to cover the 0 life up, and NoKO to make the round end at the 50th tick instead of immediately.
Re: Lelouch Lamperouge
#51  July 10, 2010, 06:51:29 pm
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Try Randomselect -> hosted older creations -> hosted characters: http://randomselect.piiym.net/

You need help getting Bishamon and/or getting him to work right?
Re: Lelouch Lamperouge
#52  July 10, 2010, 07:34:59 pm
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Thanks, it seems to work properly on your character.

I'll upload the updated version later.

I don't need Bishamon, I only needed a character that has the anim 7694 to test the move on, and that was your Yoma.
Last Edit: July 10, 2010, 07:39:05 pm by Seravy
Re: Lelouch Lamperouge
#53  July 10, 2010, 08:12:52 pm
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Meaning of OTG:

Quote
Off-The-Ground, a term used in fighting games involving striking a character at floor level, usually leading into a combo.

Basically, if your character is able to hit any character that has fallen on the ground. If it's able to do that, then we have a problem, since it's really easy to throw somebody to the ground.
Re: Lelouch Lamperouge
#54  July 10, 2010, 08:16:14 pm
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ON-the-ground.





fail.
Re: Lelouch Lamperouge
#55  July 10, 2010, 08:42:57 pm
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No, D is not included in the hitflag. If the opponent is on the ground, Geass will miss. It does work while the opponent is still falling, but not after reaching the ground. If you are fast enough, you can hit, but if you are too slow, the opponent reaches the ground and you'll miss.
Another update : If the opponent is stunned from a Flash Grenade, Geass will also miss  because the opponent is unable to see.

Edit : updated version is uploaded
Last Edit: July 10, 2010, 09:05:37 pm by Seravy
Re: Lelouch Lamperouge
#56  July 10, 2010, 09:44:42 pm
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ON-the-ground.

fail.

Well, then Wikipedia fails, since I just copy-pasted from there.

No, D is not included in the hitflag. If the opponent is on the ground, Geass will miss. It does work while the opponent is still falling, but not after reaching the ground. If you are fast enough, you can hit, but if you are too slow, the opponent reaches the ground and you'll miss.
Another update : If the opponent is stunned from a Flash Grenade, Geass will also miss  because the opponent is unable to see.

Edit : updated version is uploaded

So that means that if the character is stunned, then it's impossible for this move to hit, right?
Re: Lelouch Lamperouge (Updated 2010-07-10)
#57  July 10, 2010, 10:22:25 pm
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Quote
So that means that if the character is stunned, then it's impossible for this move to hit, right?
Yes...as long as the stun is from the Flash Grenade. (Nothing else "stuns", they have normal hittimes of 10-25 ticks usually)
Last Edit: July 10, 2010, 10:25:39 pm by Seravy
Re: Lelouch Lamperouge (Updated 2010-07-10)
#58  July 12, 2010, 07:12:31 am
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All I can say about this character is that it is a terrible idea for a character. His one hit kill move is shit and needs to be removed, and what the fuck is up with the robot fight special it looks SHITTY.

Re: Lelouch Lamperouge (Updated 2010-07-10)
#59  July 12, 2010, 07:15:09 am
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Nice attitude. For someone who watches the site you'd know that no one uses that.
Re: Lelouch Lamperouge
#60  July 12, 2010, 07:42:49 am
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No need to worry, I made that as my very first character with no experience whatsoever, so it was bound to end up horrible. My current Sakura is a lot better.



Yah i sort of did download your latest Sakura, better then your previous work... but still needs to be fixed.

I can still spam my opponets to death in a corner with sakura...       

"Make the world revolve around you. It's more fun to think that way."
Re: Lelouch Lamperouge (Updated 2010-07-10)
#61  July 12, 2010, 09:43:17 am
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Quote
I can still spam my opponets to death in a corner with sakura...       
Mind to clarify a bit? I think it's normal that you can use your attacks in the corner. The opponent is supposed to guard them and attack back, attack faster than you, or if he is fast enough get away using a jump/super jump.
I've just tried cornering an opponent and got beaten on normal level, how did you do it?
...
ok, now I managed to beat a few opponents spamming Windy...the AI is too stupid to try to avoid it using a grazing jump, and keeps guarding when he could attack back. Guess I'll have to add a statetypeset for Windy to make it idle after hitting, then the AI would fight back properly. The bar cost is way too low on it too.
These things will be fixed the next time an update is uploaded.
Last Edit: July 12, 2010, 09:48:11 am by Seravy
Re: Lelouch Lamperouge (Updated 2010-07-10)
#62  July 12, 2010, 10:34:41 am
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Nice attitude. For someone who watches the site you'd know that no one uses that.


Just another one who doesn't care what the users think.
Don't be so harsh, things will never change.