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What really bothers you that you (seemingly) can't recreate? (Read 28969 times)

Started by Jesuszilla, January 25, 2017, 10:31:53 pm
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What really bothers you that you (seemingly) can't recreate?
#1  January 25, 2017, 10:31:53 pm
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Even though MUGEN is the least limited out of the free 2D fighting engines, it is still limited. This thread is really more towards seasoned creators, so to y'all, what bothers you that you can't recreate?

For me, and this is extremely nitpick, one of them would probably be random number generators. There's so much that goes on underneath the surface, and we can't really roll our own in MUGEN. I've actually gotten curious a few times and looked at assembly to see how CvS2 does it (though never tracked back 100%) until realizing that no matter how far back I go, I just wouldn't be able to recreate it. It's a very minor thing yet also very important in gameplay when you think about it, and it bothers me when I can't do something in MUGEN.
Re: What really bothers you that you (seemingly) can't recreate?
#2  January 25, 2017, 10:38:35 pm
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I'm definitely not a seasoned creator, but the lack of a real ability to do in-game transformations bothers me. I'd also like the ability to put two entirely different characters on the same select slot.
Re: What really bothers you that you (seemingly) can't recreate?
#3  January 25, 2017, 10:39:57 pm
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I wish we can create a "ranking screen" you know, gameover put your 3 initials in and the game saves the info, boot mugen up and we
see the rank/score screen like 90% of fighting games do.

proper tag? that dont count tho because theres work arounds for that.

give me the option to make intros skippable or not, come on elecbyte let me tinker a little bit with state-2.

clsn PUSH boxes yea i want that more than anything.

clsn for block range like in SF4/SFV because i think the guard distance parameter in the hitdef is broken, never worked for me like i thought
it would. actually i never saw it work at all.
Re: What really bothers you that you (seemingly) can't recreate?
#4  January 25, 2017, 10:51:56 pm
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In game transformations also used to bother me,I used photoshop to seperate such things like hair and tried to put them as an explod
It didn't go well
so yea,
Re: What really bothers you that you (seemingly) can't recreate?
#5  January 25, 2017, 10:57:52 pm
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Mother fukin' projectiles! Loads and loads of projectile/helper issues I could go into!
Re: What really bothers you that you (seemingly) can't recreate?
#6  January 26, 2017, 01:12:34 am
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Re: What really bothers you that you (seemingly) can't recreate?
#7  January 26, 2017, 01:23:41 am
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The fact that its impossible do the whole 3 chars v. 1 boss thing in MUGEN pisses me the fuck off. I recall feeling so down when I found a thread on that subject, and the subsequent answer to it being "it's impossible to replicate".
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Re: What really bothers you that you (seemingly) can't recreate?
#8  January 26, 2017, 01:34:09 am
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I remember the one time I tried replicating the way KoF handles guard animations. Yeah, wasn't happening.

Would that even possible outside of fullgames or author compatibility?
Re: What really bothers you that you (seemingly) can't recreate?
#9  January 26, 2017, 01:35:45 am
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Can you explain what's different?
Re: What really bothers you that you (seemingly) can't recreate?
#10  January 26, 2017, 01:44:21 am
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Well, there are two separate guard animations: one for light attacks, and one for everything else. They also have different startup animations as well, so it isn't a simple animation they go into once the move makes contact.
Re: What really bothers you that you (seemingly) can't recreate?
#11  January 26, 2017, 02:10:58 am
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There are ways to trigger the different animations and start up timings. But no way for MUGEN to detect if it's a light, medium, or heavy basic universally. So yeah, that part would be full game only as far as I can imagine.

Or at the very least only applicable with chars that they are programmed to work with. Which is basically the same thing :p
Re: What really bothers you that you (seemingly) can't recreate?
#12  January 26, 2017, 08:03:11 am
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When you have actually guarded, you enter movetype = H, so

gethitvar(animtype) should apply. Unless you go into a special animation prior to the hit connecting, that one should be possible.

Quote
clsn PUSH boxes yea i want that more than anything.
Workaround for this is to playerpush = 0 your character, and place a nothitby helper in his space and give that playerpush instead. Unless there is another reason for them?

I don't like helpers code being processed after screendraw of p2, it makes omegas cables look wrong if you framestep through them.
Checkpoints would be nice. Not save game, just a simple continue which would take you to the VS screen of the match where you had to quit. If you lost/ragequit then the checkpoint gets wiped, only applies if you actually quit during the VS screen.
Rootvarset, Rootvaradd. Have wanted for ages, still want.


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Re: What really bothers you that you (seemingly) can't recreate?
#13  January 26, 2017, 08:22:25 am
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Yeah that's what I figured. There isn't a way to get P1 to go into the animation before the hit since gethitvar is only good once the move makes contact.
Re: What really bothers you that you (seemingly) can't recreate?
#14  January 26, 2017, 08:37:20 am
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When you have actually guarded, you enter movetype = H, so

gethitvar(animtype) should apply. Unless you go into a special animation prior to the hit connecting, that one should be possible.

Quote
clsn PUSH boxes yea i want that more than anything.
Workaround for this is to playerpush = 0 your character, and place a nothitby helper in his space and give that playerpush instead. Unless there is another reason for them?

I don't like helpers code being processed after screendraw of p2, it makes omegas cables look wrong if you framestep through them.
Checkpoints would be nice. Not save game, just a simple continue which would take you to the VS screen of the match where you had to quit. If you lost/ragequit then the checkpoint gets wiped, only applies if you actually quit during the VS screen.
Rootvarset, Rootvaradd. Have wanted for ages, still want.

Thanks for the tip,I just hope elecbyte incorporates it into the engine
For accuracy, have the chars behave more like in their official games.
I tried something similar before but it was wonky, there was something
Wrong with my helper, it kept spawing the push box I created with every
Step my char took and they were hittable too. I'm going to try it again with
Your recommendation.
Re: What really bothers you that you (seemingly) can't recreate?
#15  January 26, 2017, 08:39:18 am
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nah dude, its 100% possible to detect the strength of guarding. i've had to use it several times
Re: What really bothers you that you (seemingly) can't recreate?
#16  January 26, 2017, 08:41:48 am
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But is it possible before the guard?
Re: What really bothers you that you (seemingly) can't recreate?
#17  January 26, 2017, 08:50:44 am
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switching to guard states is hardcoded, so anything before the guard is not customizable.

at worst, things will be a tick late
Re: What really bothers you that you (seemingly) can't recreate?
#18  January 26, 2017, 08:55:31 am
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Window parameter for explods. For player objects, even.
Re: What really bothers you that you (seemingly) can't recreate?
#19  January 26, 2017, 08:56:07 am
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That's the problem as per the previous post. You can only detect the strength of the attack once you actually guard it. The new animation occurs prior to the attack connecting apparently. So no dice.


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Re: What really bothers you that you (seemingly) can't recreate?
#20  January 26, 2017, 09:09:53 am
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MVC1 Shadows, shrinking and growing depending on states and animations... Sounds silly, I know. Couldn't pull it off
Re: What really bothers you that you (seemingly) can't recreate?
#21  January 26, 2017, 09:15:29 am
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Wouldn't you just code shadow explods that change per state?
Re: What really bothers you that you (seemingly) can't recreate?
#22  January 26, 2017, 09:41:10 am
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That's the problem as per the previous post. You can only detect the strength of the attack once you actually guard it. The new animation occurs prior to the attack connecting apparently. So no dice.

i totally got it right bruh, i even went a step further



edit: you gotta overwrite your state 120 so stupid shit doesnt happen
Re: What really bothers you that you (seemingly) can't recreate?
#23  January 26, 2017, 07:08:37 pm
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MVC1 Shadows, shrinking and growing depending on states and animations... Sounds silly, I know. Couldn't pull it off

I swear someone did that once (I think Fusion did it for Zero?). You just set the no shadow assertspecial and use explods while keeping track of the states.
Re: What really bothers you that you (seemingly) can't recreate?
#24  January 26, 2017, 07:57:34 pm
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Wouldn't you just code shadow explods that change per state?
MVC1 Shadows, shrinking and growing depending on states and animations... Sounds silly, I know. Couldn't pull it off
I swear someone did that once (I think Fusion did it for Zero?). You just set the no shadow assertspecial and use explods while keeping track of the states.
Tried both of those, the end result would be the shadow randomly affixing to projectiles or even enemy players, then never going away.
Have yet to see anything else doing it right!
Re: What really bothers you that you (seemingly) can't recreate?
#25  January 26, 2017, 08:01:31 pm
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How would it find itself on projectiles or the enemy? That sounds like improper coding.
Re: What really bothers you that you (seemingly) can't recreate?
#26  January 26, 2017, 08:12:00 pm
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I originally wanted that for my Renamon release, but had to scrap it after numerous feedback about the issue.
But, if you can find a character that uses proper MVC1 shadows, send it my way to see how they handled it!

I won't lie, it likely was my amateur coding, which is why... well, thread Title. =P

Spoiler: Forgot about this video (click to see content)
Last Edit: January 26, 2017, 09:40:44 pm by Tsunamidusher
Re: What really bothers you that you (seemingly) can't recreate?
#27  January 26, 2017, 08:46:02 pm
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I'd suggest making a thread for it so we can see how you're trying to code it. Or you can wait till I get to coding my DS chars
Re: What really bothers you that you (seemingly) can't recreate?
#28  January 26, 2017, 10:39:11 pm
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I'm no Mugen coder so I may be wrong, but since I've never seen such a screenpack I just assume that it's not possible to for there to be more unique-sh character selects like slanted ones (such as SF3TS'), or ones with manual "aiming" (think Guilty Gear XX games).
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Re: What really bothers you that you (seemingly) can't recreate?
#29  January 26, 2017, 10:50:51 pm
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Slanted ones are possible with a trick.
Re: What really bothers you that you (seemingly) can't recreate?
#30  January 26, 2017, 11:50:14 pm
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Re: What really bothers you that you (seemingly) can't recreate?
#31  January 27, 2017, 12:30:22 am
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I'm not a MUGEN programmer, but I always wondered about transformations after reading quite a bit... I understand there's an issue with the gethits reverting back to normal, but I also understand MUGEN 1.0 supports palette-swapping mid-fight, ¿correct?

If so, here's my idea. It's not a simple one and definitely not better than if swapping entire characters mid-fight were natively possible in the engine, but I'm throwing it out there in case it helps anyone:

Let's say I have a character with a simple transformation. For example: Goku. Only his hair changes. Normally, when you think of an application of this, you think of using explods in EVERY frame of his sprites, correct? Here's my proposed solution:


Yes, this example is quite simplified.

As you can see, the blue hair is his normal hair, the yellow is his SSJ hair and the green is the overlap.
          - If you want normal hair, all you have to do is change the green and blue colors to black and the yellow to transparent.
          - If you want SSJ hair, you change the green and yellow to gold (or whatever) and set the blue to transparent.

Instead of adding the hair as an explod, you would just need to add the SSJ hair sprites with a bit of transparency over the non-SSJ sprites in photoshop and then do a bit of (admittedly-complicated) color management to make sure the colors are assigned correctly in all palettes and that they're color separated from the rest of the body to avoid trouble (you can later just assign the same color to two different separated parts if need be).

¿Does this work/make any sense?
Re: What really bothers you that you (seemingly) can't recreate?
#32  January 27, 2017, 12:49:47 am
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It'd work if you could actually control which colors were transparent and not just the 1 color being so :p
Re: What really bothers you that you (seemingly) can't recreate?
#33  January 27, 2017, 12:59:34 am
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You can do that with sffv2.1 though.
Heck, with 1.1 palettes, you can assign multiple transparency colours.

Oh, I want a diagram. I fucking love diagrams.
Re: What really bothers you that you (seemingly) can't recreate?
#34  January 27, 2017, 01:09:36 am
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I'm not really a programmer either (just edits here and there) but there are somethings that would make mugen just function better as an engine that are missing.

  • Something to prevent characters from being selected again (would help the random select a lot and prevent mirror matches especially in arcade)
  • Actual hidden/boss characters with the hidden characters needing a certain way to unlock them and the boss characters being truly unselectable (there is a method for this but at the sacrifice of the randomselect due to accidently selecting them even when you have don't move over and they can still appear in survival runs)
  • More flexibility with the menu/lifebar/etc gfx (Knuckle Fighter Alpha had this to an extent)
  • A whole bunch of other stuff that I can't remember right now

If one things for certain is that I'd like to make a list in a word document of the things that this engine could need or needs improvement just so it would be in hand if elecbyte ever comes back.
Re: What really bothers you that you (seemingly) can't recreate?
#35  January 27, 2017, 01:14:47 am
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You can do that with sffv2.1 though.
Heck, with 1.1 palettes, you can assign multiple transparency colours.
I actually did not know that!!! That's awesome! A whole new level of color separation there!
Re: What really bothers you that you (seemingly) can't recreate?
#36  January 27, 2017, 01:23:30 am
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You can do that with sffv2.1 though.
Heck, with 1.1 palettes, you can assign multiple transparency colours.
I actually did not know that!!! That's awesome! A whole new level of color separation there!

Shit I would send you a link to the char but somebody here coded
A female who had a portion of her outfit transparent I think it was part
Of her dress or a scarf I cant remember but maybe someone here does.
It took advantage of the new sff looked pretty cool. You could still see that part
Of her outfit it just had semi transparency.
Re: What really bothers you that you (seemingly) can't recreate?
#37  January 27, 2017, 02:47:56 am
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Remappal lets you remap the alpha channel? I mean, the alpha channel is pretty amazing for what you can do in stages and screenpacks, but i didn't think you could change the alpha channel on the fly for the character.

Or is the alpha channel the palette. I haven't spent much time with alpha channels in mugen terms. Done a bit, gradients and such work nicely, but i haven't really looked into how they behave for characters.


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Re: What really bothers you that you (seemingly) can't recreate?
#38  January 27, 2017, 02:52:52 am
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I'm about to do a test to see. Gimme an hour or so.
Re: What really bothers you that you (seemingly) can't recreate?
#39  January 27, 2017, 03:02:49 am
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trying to accurately recreate MVC Super jump physics is difficult.

I can't seem to get the right velocity decreases and increases during an aerial rave.
Re: What really bothers you that you (seemingly) can't recreate?
#40  January 27, 2017, 03:07:21 am
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I don't remember looking into it during the actual combo bit come to think of it. The issue was it seemed to have air friction.

Assuming a neutral jump. After 8 ticks forwards momentum would start. This would allow you to accelerate to value X. If you stopped holding forwards before X, it would decrease to 2. If you reached X it would maintain that value. Somewhat similar for backwards except it was 15 ticks before the acceleration would start.

Getting forwards or backwards would start you off at maximum X. There was some other stuff as well, but the acceleration when not pressing a key made it awkward to work out


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Re: What really bothers you that you (seemingly) can't recreate?
#41  January 27, 2017, 03:31:57 am
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Yeah, I figured that out, however during (and after) an air combo the physics makes the velocity of your character change massively.

I haven't looked into it in about a year but as I recall it was very difficult to get it to work right and even when I could get it to work I only got it to work in a vacuum, in an actual match it didn't work correctly.
Re: What really bothers you that you (seemingly) can't recreate?
#42  January 27, 2017, 03:51:02 am
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My gripe is not being able to create the Delayed Hyper Combo from MvC2, where you interrupt a hyper move and hit the hyper command to get your partner to switch with you and perform their hyper move. Since there wasn't really a 3v3 system for the engine, I've tried using it in 2v2, only to see disastrous results.
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Re: What really bothers you that you (seemingly) can't recreate?
#43  January 27, 2017, 03:55:25 am
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I was able to that, if you want help with it I can show you what I did.
Re: What really bothers you that you (seemingly) can't recreate?
#44  January 27, 2017, 03:58:44 am
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I just want to know how you did it, since I moved on from MvC2.
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Re: What really bothers you that you (seemingly) can't recreate?
#45  January 27, 2017, 03:58:54 am
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Remappal lets you remap the alpha channel? I mean, the alpha channel is pretty amazing for what you can do in stages and screenpacks, but i didn't think you could change the alpha channel on the fly for the character.

Or is the alpha channel the palette. I haven't spent much time with alpha channels in mugen terms. Done a bit, gradients and such work nicely, but i haven't really looked into how they behave for characters.

See, here I thought one color (e.g. Magenta) was already pre-set in MUGEN as the alpha channel. I assumed that remapping any of the other colors to that one would make whatever part of the sprite using that color transparent.

lui

Re: What really bothers you that you (seemingly) can't recreate?
#46  January 27, 2017, 03:59:07 am
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My gripe is not being able to create the Delayed Hyper Combo from MvC2, where you interrupt a hyper move and hit the hyper command to get your partner to switch with you and perform their hyper move. Since there wasn't really a 3v3 system for the engine, I've tried using it in 2v2, only to see disastrous results.

there is actually, add004 supports it and is easily applicable to any character
Re: What really bothers you that you (seemingly) can't recreate?
#47  January 27, 2017, 04:21:11 am
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My biggest gripe believe it or not is from a discovery I found in Add004 in the 004.bat's common01: Alternate powerbars.

In finding this discovery, it has gotten me a bit of praise from Shiyo himself, but there has been a slight problem: Getting the powerbars to work for tag/team modes.
Now getting them to work for single character mode is fine and dandy, but the problem is I cannot replicate the code in team or tag mode perfectly.
Tag mode has said bars but ignores the character assist type (Meaning no literal tag mode, just plain old Mugen's Dramatic mode), and team mode...it's complicated. If a powerbar is chosen for one character, it will work, but if said char gets KO'd and partner tags in, it goes back to normal 004 powerbar..
To this day I am unable to get this "Alternate powerbar ism" idea to work properly and I have no help on my side, even when I asked for assistance. By all accounts, seeing this...kinda depresses me alot.
Re: What really bothers you that you (seemingly) can't recreate?
#48  January 27, 2017, 04:38:01 am
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Re: What really bothers you that you (seemingly) can't recreate?
#49  January 27, 2017, 04:42:50 am
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I haven't touched mugen in a long time but I'm pretty sure that isn't possible at all. What you can do is use 32bit sprites which means no reduced color count and being able to manipulate the alpha channel to decide what's transparent and what isn't and to what degree, but you cannot assign more than one color of any given standard palette to be the transparent one nor change it on the fly.

When a 256 color sprite has its background set to be the first color of the palette it will always be transparent no matter the color of that particular slot. Changing palettes on the fly does nothing to the sprite when it comes to deciding which one is the transparent color, and changing another color slot to the same color as the transparent one just paints whatever section that uses that slot with that color.

So yeah, no idea what's going on. I must be missing some super hidden tech here.
Re: What really bothers you that you (seemingly) can't recreate?
#50  January 27, 2017, 04:51:09 am
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I'm not a MUGEN programmer, but I always wondered about transformations after reading quite a bit... I understand there's an issue with the gethits reverting back to normal, but I also understand MUGEN 1.0 supports palette-swapping mid-fight, ¿correct?

If so, here's my idea. It's not a simple one and definitely not better than if swapping entire characters mid-fight were natively possible in the engine, but I'm throwing it out there in case it helps anyone:

Let's say I have a character with a simple transformation. For example: Goku. Only his hair changes. Normally, when you think of an application of this, you think of using explods in EVERY frame of his sprites, correct? Here's my proposed solution:


Yes, this example is quite simplified.

As you can see, the blue hair is his normal hair, the yellow is his SSJ hair and the green is the overlap.
          - If you want normal hair, all you have to do is change the green and blue colors to black and the yellow to transparent.
          - If you want SSJ hair, you change the green and yellow to gold (or whatever) and set the blue to transparent.

Instead of adding the hair as an explod, you would just need to add the SSJ hair sprites with a bit of transparency over the non-SSJ sprites in photoshop and then do a bit of (admittedly-complicated) color management to make sure the colors are assigned correctly in all palettes and that they're color separated from the rest of the body to avoid trouble (you can later just assign the same color to two different separated parts if need be).

¿Does this work/make any sense?
Something like this? Iori is obviously only a remap pal, yet Rugal/God separate sheets. Transforming and gethits still applied to specific set. Something I had been experimenting with. Also changing 9000,3 ingame as well as pal swapping it.
https://vid.me/TBb1
Re: What really bothers you that you (seemingly) can't recreate?
#51  January 27, 2017, 04:59:51 am
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We can change gethit animations for transformations just fine. The only big issue is for when custom gethit states get into play, since that would require the opponent to both know if you're transformed or not and what sprite number to display.

And no, the video has nothing to do with what Graphicus was talking about nor what Graphicus is talking about is possible. I'm here to destroy everyone's dreams tonight.
Re: What really bothers you that you (seemingly) can't recreate?
#52  January 27, 2017, 05:05:24 am
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I feel like I'm on an emotional roller coaster!

Anyway, I need to try the offset method for transformations and see how badly rotating sprites with Angle draw messes them up. And how far apart they'd have to be for scaling to NOT mess them up.
Re: What really bothers you that you (seemingly) can't recreate?
#53  January 27, 2017, 05:09:14 am
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It's a clever method but you end up messing up more stuff than it's worth just to have that one perk. Imagine getting your character launched into the air and suddenly seeing his transformed state getting launched too. Or how much of a pain in the ass it will be to assemble the sff and tweak the air file. No thanks.
Re: What really bothers you that you (seemingly) can't recreate?
#54  January 27, 2017, 05:17:28 am
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That still depends on how far away they are from each other.

And you know I'm crazy enough to align it all in the air and make it work in PS which is where the real headache would be. I don't care about the fact that a P2 offset could mess it up. That's so rarely used I'd make an exception for that creation if it came up. But what worries me is AngleDraw. In theory the rotation should stay accurate. But I have yet to practice it.
Re: What really bothers you that you (seemingly) can't recreate?
#55  January 27, 2017, 05:17:28 am
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Was referring to the first part of that post, which not everyone knows because you have knowledge of it. I'm still learning about it myself so if I don't have an issue doing the extra work aforementioned it's a step in the right direction.
Re: What really bothers you that you (seemingly) can't recreate?
#56  January 27, 2017, 06:06:24 am
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Last Edit: January 27, 2017, 06:11:39 am by Jesuszilla
Re: What really bothers you that you (seemingly) can't recreate?
#57  January 27, 2017, 06:21:51 am
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We can change gethit animations for transformations just fine. The only big issue is for when custom gethit states get into play, since that would require the opponent to both know if you're transformed or not and what sprite number to display.

I was/is (If I can ever get back to this) doing that for my full game.

I used a var on all the sprite numbers in custom states to be +4000 if the var is 1.

Bigger piss off was captain America's shield. which required a separate animation for every grab cap can get hit by in his air that contains the proper shield for it that only plays when he gets grabbed.
Re: What really bothers you that you (seemingly) can't recreate?
#58  January 27, 2017, 06:36:10 am
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That is posible if you don't use the transparency space

Like change th clothes like with battle damage (that was simple the best example is shadow lady to shine the yellow in his clotes)  fx . I tryed but was kind bored. And  my cp crash. And stop doing that project

But change the hair style I tryed long ago and always the transperent color appears. But im not the a expert
http://armentis.deviantart.com/ http://mugenguild.com/forumx/index.php?topic=133017.0
Spoiler, click to toggle visibilty
Last Edit: January 27, 2017, 06:39:20 am by zero de armentis
Re: What really bothers you that you (seemingly) can't recreate?
#59  January 27, 2017, 09:03:59 am
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In game drastic costume changes have been round for a while due to palette seperation. Giving Ryu a striped Gi or whatever. They're just.... boring to do.

JNP: I used sprite rotation in omega as the only way i could guarantee the right pose for the diagonal holds was to use the 5060,10 sprite and rotate it.  The 5030 ones weren't reliable enough across all characters. Some it wasn't on a lean, some did the lean earlier, some never had the head down one etc.


In M.U.G.E.N there is no magic button

They say a little knowledge is a dangerous thing, but it's not one half so bad as a lot of ignorance.

2OS

Re: What really bothers you that you (seemingly) can't recreate?
#60  January 27, 2017, 09:18:38 am
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MUGEN always picks the last color in the palette as the transparency color (or first if you're one of those PSP plebs). Quit being stupid, people.

what

transparency appearing first is normal. only photoshop and game making tools (fighter factory) treat it as last and that's weird.


anyway

recursive redirecting isn't a thing which is dumb. would be nice to redirect to enemy helpers (it's currently possible through a stupid glitch that i'd never advise anyone to use).
Re: What really bothers you that you (seemingly) can't recreate?
#61  January 27, 2017, 09:21:51 am
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Wouldn't mind knowing what the glitch is, even if it's retarded.


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Re: What really bothers you that you (seemingly) can't recreate?
#62  January 27, 2017, 09:35:22 am
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it's the F1 killer

Additionally, there is a glitch in the Reversaldef controller which causes Player1 to retain Player2's target information even after Player2 returns to an Idle state. This allows Player1 to use target-based state controllers such as TargetState and TargetLifeAdd, as well as the Target redirection trigger, when they would normally not be allowed to. Through specific coding, it is possible to utilize this glitch to replicate a "damage-over-time" effect such as Poison. Please see these threads for more info.

there is another glitch where if this is done with helpers and the helpers destroyself, any helper that spawns from that point onwards is automatically a target. this plus ""rootchangestate"" through projectile is how the character F1 is killed.

pretty much target,id with it is enemy,helper,id.

though it's not exactly that cut and dry because it'll also target your own helpers and your partners helpers in simul.
Re: What really bothers you that you (seemingly) can't recreate?
#63  January 27, 2017, 09:53:54 am
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Oh that, well that's not even slightly worth it. It's bothersome enough setting that up for the 1 use it does have.


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Re: What really bothers you that you (seemingly) can't recreate?
#64  January 27, 2017, 10:03:04 am
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You can do that with sffv2.1 though.
Heck, with 1.1 palettes, you can assign multiple transparency colours.

No you can't.

MUGEN always picks the last color in the palette as the transparency color

actually you can assign any colour in a palette to be transparent. the new sff type gives every colour in the palette an alpha value, so certain parts of a character can semi transparent. or you can totally remove them if you set the alpha to 0

theres no way to do this ingame with a sctrl though
Re: What really bothers you that you (seemingly) can't recreate?
#65  January 27, 2017, 10:14:42 am
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You can do that with sffv2.1 though.
Heck, with 1.1 palettes, you can assign multiple transparency colours.

No you can't.

MUGEN always picks the last color in the palette as the transparency color

actually you can assign any colour in a palette to be transparent. the new sff type gives every colour in the palette an alpha value, so certain parts of a character can semi transparent. or you can totally remove them if you set the alpha to 0

theres no way to do this ingame with a sctrl though

do you know that characters name that had part of her dress semi transparent?
Re: What really bothers you that you (seemingly) can't recreate?
#66  January 27, 2017, 10:47:48 am
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To validate what I said:


As I said in my post, you'll need sffv2.1 (MUGEN 1.1's new sprite file) with the palettes incorporated into it.

Oh, I want a diagram. I fucking love diagrams.
Re: What really bothers you that you (seemingly) can't recreate?
#67  January 27, 2017, 11:00:55 am
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Whoa I am SOOOOooooo glad I'll be going 1.1 for my releases. Thank you god based garchompmatt

JNP: I used sprite rotation in omega as the only way i could guarantee the right pose for the diagonal holds was to use the 5060,10 sprite and rotate it.  The 5030 ones weren't reliable enough across all characters. Some it wasn't on a lean, some did the lean earlier, some never had the head down one etc.
I use rotation for a throw too. That's why I need to test this more. If it screws up rotation throws it's not useful.
Last Edit: January 27, 2017, 11:07:53 am by Just No Point
Re: What really bothers you that you (seemingly) can't recreate?
#68  January 27, 2017, 11:32:44 am
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Well I'll be damned, I had no idea that was a thing either. I do not mess with 1.1 at all.

Sounds like Samsho characters are EZ now.
Re: What really bothers you that you (seemingly) can't recreate?
#69  January 27, 2017, 11:54:03 am
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Inb4 1.1 fan girls start praising 1.1 as the greatest again! Saying "I told you so!"
Re: What really bothers you that you (seemingly) can't recreate?
#70  January 27, 2017, 03:33:01 pm
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So, is what I said possible or no? I'm lost. LOL.
Re: What really bothers you that you (seemingly) can't recreate?
#71  January 27, 2017, 03:44:30 pm
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Yes but the Hair would be a real issue for when Goku flips and whatnot.




I started a quick test last night and while Gotenks does have extra face stuff Goku wouldn't have in SS1/2 the hair alone would still be a nightmare of colors.

That Gotenks color count is 101. And this doesn't include hair going covering his leg or back or wherever else.

It'd be a nightmare for most things.
Re: What really bothers you that you (seemingly) can't recreate?
#72  January 27, 2017, 05:17:49 pm
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Well shit in my mouth me call me your sister! I take back everything I say and apologize. This... I seriously had no bloody idea!

But does RemapPal work with it, @Websta:?
Last Edit: January 27, 2017, 05:24:02 pm by Jesuszilla
Re: What really bothers you that you (seemingly) can't recreate?
#73  January 27, 2017, 05:39:23 pm
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In my video, you see me switch between palettes via palette selector, which in turns uses RemapPal.
So yes, it does work with RemapPal.

Oh, I want a diagram. I fucking love diagrams.
Re: What really bothers you that you (seemingly) can't recreate?
#74  January 27, 2017, 06:06:33 pm
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Kinda offtopic, but how does one set the transparency value of the colours? Neither photoshop (in indeedx mode) or fighter factory let me set transparent colours.
Re: What really bothers you that you (seemingly) can't recreate?
#75  January 27, 2017, 06:26:54 pm
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In Fighter Factory 3, double-clicking on a colour in the palette will bring up a window that allows you to modify the colour; one of the options in the window is alpha channel, which by default is set to 255 (full opacity).

Oh, I want a diagram. I fucking love diagrams.
Re: What really bothers you that you (seemingly) can't recreate?
#76  January 27, 2017, 06:30:51 pm
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In Fighter Factory 3, double-clicking on a colour in the palette will bring up a window that allows you to modify the colour; one of the options in the window is alpha channel, which by default is set to 255 (full opacity).

Can't believe I never noticed that... Thanks!
Re: What really bothers you that you (seemingly) can't recreate?
#77  January 27, 2017, 11:34:50 pm
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Angledraw is based on the axis position, so the axis is the actual pivotal point.
Using the offset trick for transformations totally breaks with Angledraw, because the non-transformed sprite will have the original axis and the angledraw will rotate fine. With the transformed sprite, the axis will be placed at an offset of 4000 (for instance) and the rotation will be based on the original axis' position, so the sprite will be totally offscreen.

Best way to do the transformation is sff2.1, multiple alpha channels+remappal and a transformation sprite that doesn't really change the character visually too much, because the color-separation needs to be made on top of the non-transformed sprite. So, forget Shang Tsung type characters but you could have a character that in the transformed sprites he grows a pair of wings
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Re: What really bothers you that you (seemingly) can't recreate?
#78  January 28, 2017, 12:02:53 am
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lui

Re: What really bothers you that you (seemingly) can't recreate?
#79  January 28, 2017, 12:05:27 am
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In Fighter Factory 3, double-clicking on a colour in the palette will bring up a window that allows you to modify the colour; one of the options in the window is alpha channel, which by default is set to 255 (full opacity).

@kohaku: hey this would useful for making a 1.1 only version of kuroyikihime and miyuki for the wings and skirt
Re: What really bothers you that you (seemingly) can't recreate?
#80  January 28, 2017, 12:10:47 am
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That's kind of what I was afraid of with angledraw

Well crap

No full character transformation Gotenks after all
Re: What really bothers you that you (seemingly) can't recreate?
#81  January 28, 2017, 12:14:31 am
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Angledraw is based on the axis position, so the axis is the actual pivotal point.
Using the offset trick for transformations totally breaks with Angledraw, because the non-transformed sprite will have the original axis and the angledraw will rotate fine. With the transformed sprite, the axis will be placed at an offset of 4000 (for instance) and the rotation will be based on the original axis' position, so the sprite will be totally offscreen.

Best way to do the transformation is sff2.1, multiple alpha channels+remappal and a transformation sprite that doesn't really change the character visually too much, because the color-separation needs to be made on top of the non-transformed sprite. So, forget Shang Tsung type characters but you could have a character that in the transformed sprites he grows a pair of wings

you know what, this totally gives us an "excuse" to go abck to 16 colours sprites, sicne 16 x16 = 256 we could ahve a sprite that swaps totally by palette swapping, but we are limited to 16 colours  (AFAIKK, I ahve not worked out the theory yet). like literally code a program that takes two 16 bit sprites and makes a single sprites that can morph on two different sprites based on a shared palette.
Re: What really bothers you that you (seemingly) can't recreate?
#82  January 28, 2017, 12:52:20 am
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Best way to do the transformation is sff2.1, multiple alpha channels+remappal and a transformation sprite that doesn't really change the character visually too much, because the color-separation needs to be made on top of the non-transformed sprite. So, forget Shang Tsung type characters but you could have a character that in the transformed sprites he grows a pair of wings

Precisely. That's why I specifically said it would have to be a character with a small difference between his transformed and non-transformed version:

...Let's say I have a character with a simple transformation...
Re: What really bothers you that you (seemingly) can't recreate?
#83  January 28, 2017, 01:09:14 am
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well it turned out to be uch simpler than expected :
Quote

[18:05] <SatouSei> think of the palette as a 16x16 map
[18:06] <SatouSei> and two sprite sets, the sprites can only go up to 16 colours
[18:06] <SatouSei> so a program compares set 1 image N and set 2 image N, pixel by pixel and creates a new image
[18:07] <SatouSei> the row will the the X colour of image 1 while the column will be the Y colour of image 2
[18:07] <SatouSei> for the new image
[18:08] <SatouSei> the sprites have to be the same size, tho for obvious reasons

[18:15] <SatouSei> a more clever program would "create" the columns and rows so only the strictly necesary ones are used, and more than one set or more than 16 colours can be used ; unless we find a way to have palettes bigger than 256 colours (in mugen , the later has already been solved in other engines)



Quote
[18:16] <Rednavi> Also the more we get into how to do something, the less is worth it really. Fuck mugen.
Last Edit: January 28, 2017, 01:31:11 am by Bastard Mami
Re: What really bothers you that you (seemingly) can't recreate?
#84  January 28, 2017, 09:30:47 am
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If you localize the problem to just cover the gethits it sounds a little more reasonable.
Re: What really bothers you that you (seemingly) can't recreate?
#85  January 28, 2017, 05:26:31 pm
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yeah, that theory is just how to make so two different sprites can be swapped with a palette change, it's still not about making a mugen character that mixes two.
Re: What really bothers you that you (seemingly) can't recreate?
#86  January 30, 2017, 04:20:23 am
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Re: What really bothers you that you (seemingly) can't recreate?
#87  January 30, 2017, 04:23:37 am
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Baited!
Re: What really bothers you that you (seemingly) can't recreate?
#88  January 30, 2017, 06:00:41 am
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How about a transition from the char select screen to the vs
screen? A proper one, mugen just closes one and starts the other.
It would be cool to have the option to make it one "state". Example
You pick your character and the char layout turns into a world map
Or something else, and your chars sprite is animated too.
Then the screen fades to the stage I'd like that, but I can't re-create
It. The only way I can think of that working is by coding your chars as
Helpers and picking them on beginning of roundstate 2 or something
Complicated, I'm not sure really.
Re: What really bothers you that you (seemingly) can't recreate?
#89  January 30, 2017, 06:54:30 am
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The way Marvel Super Heroes does it SHOULD be possible since it uses jumping/falling and then intro/victory/taunt animations all of which are universal. 
Re: What really bothers you that you (seemingly) can't recreate?
#90  January 30, 2017, 12:04:04 pm
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Not really. Source accurate Touhou Hisouten/Hisoutensoku characters don't have an intro/victory/taunt animation. Also, how would it handle "characters" like the SF2 Car Bonus Stage? Because those don't even have jumping/falling animations.
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Re: What really bothers you that you (seemingly) can't recreate?
#91  January 30, 2017, 07:43:55 pm
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SelfAnimExist?
Re: What really bothers you that you (seemingly) can't recreate?
#92  January 30, 2017, 11:08:37 pm
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Why can't we changed the number of rounds via the options screen? -_-
My hat is a pancake.
Re: What really bothers you that you (seemingly) can't recreate?
#93  January 31, 2017, 12:28:45 am
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As I'm currently developing lifebars inspired by Smash 4, it bugs me that animations for Fight, K.O., etc. can only be one single animation, since the 'GO!' animation in Smash 4 features alpha blending and completely opaque graphics.

Oh, I want a diagram. I fucking love diagrams.
Re: What really bothers you that you (seemingly) can't recreate?
#94  January 31, 2017, 12:31:06 am
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1.1 sffs allow for alpha so you could take care of that.


In M.U.G.E.N there is no magic button

They say a little knowledge is a dangerous thing, but it's not one half so bad as a lot of ignorance.
Re: What really bothers you that you (seemingly) can't recreate?
#95  January 31, 2017, 01:10:28 am
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They allow for alpha, but alpha blending is something I don't believe can be replicated without a source and a destination. Mere semi-transparency doesn't produce the effect I'm after.

Oh, I want a diagram. I fucking love diagrams.
Re: What really bothers you that you (seemingly) can't recreate?
#96  January 31, 2017, 01:13:27 am
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I wish there was some way for MUGEN to show the P3 and P4's portrait for simul alongside P1 & P2 and show all 4 on the VS Screen. Currently and unfortunately in simul, the VS Screen only shows P1 & P2's faces while only showing the names of all 4.
Beware the Dark Wolf once more!
Re: What really bothers you that you (seemingly) can't recreate?
#97  February 05, 2017, 06:11:37 am
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TURBO
T-U-R-B-O

Also accurate block pushback.
Re: What really bothers you that you (seemingly) can't recreate?
#98  February 05, 2017, 02:20:12 pm
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While I remember, round transitions can have default parameters (round.default.anim, etc.), but round.default.snd doesn't work, buggering up my plans of having 3 2 1 play every round for my Sm4sh Lifebars.

On the subject of default parameters, if you have both a default anim and individual round anims, they both play instead of the round-specific anim logically overwriting the default one for that round.

Oh, I want a diagram. I fucking love diagrams.
Re: What really bothers you that you (seemingly) can't recreate?
#99  February 05, 2017, 02:22:54 pm
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I wish there was some way for MUGEN to show the P3 and P4's portrait for simul alongside P1 & P2 and show all 4 on the VS Screen. Currently and unfortunately in simul, the VS Screen only shows P1 & P2's faces while only showing the names of all 4.

You just posted the way to implement this. :P
Re: What really bothers you that you (seemingly) can't recreate?
#100  February 05, 2017, 02:30:50 pm
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Wouldn't that work only in a closed full game, with a different font and each letter as a portrait? I don't know much about editing screenpacks, so I could be wrong.
Re: What really bothers you that you (seemingly) can't recreate?
#101  February 05, 2017, 02:36:57 pm
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Yeah, but it can be recreated. It misses the point of the thread. :P
Re: What really bothers you that you (seemingly) can't recreate?
#102  February 05, 2017, 03:19:18 pm
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Wouldn't that work only in a closed full game, with a different font and each letter as a portrait? I don't know much about editing screenpacks, so I could be wrong.
It also places additional restrictions like not being able to use .ttf/.otf fonts for anything involving the characters' names (select screen and lifebars).

2OS

Re: What really bothers you that you (seemingly) can't recreate?
#103  February 05, 2017, 09:41:56 pm
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this isn't a big deal but not being able to ifelse strings is dumb.

eg:

postype=ifelse(time=0,p1,p2)
Re: What really bothers you that you (seemingly) can't recreate?
#104  February 05, 2017, 09:49:20 pm
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Re: What really bothers you that you (seemingly) can't recreate?
#105  February 05, 2017, 10:59:51 pm
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Well, then I'll have to ask you more about them sometime, I guess.
Re: What really bothers you that you (seemingly) can't recreate?
#106  February 06, 2017, 01:14:19 am
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this isn't a big deal but not being able to ifelse strings is dumb.

eg:

postype=ifelse(time=0,p1,p2)

if I am to be pedantic, they are not really strings but constants, mugen just calls them strings but the fact that ou can't do any operations with them, pretty much just makes them constants.
Re: What really bothers you that you (seemingly) can't recreate?
#107  February 08, 2017, 06:51:00 am
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Still be useful though. Having to set up multiple explods to deal with teamside is silly, should be able to use 1.

One that is impossible and will probably remain that way is the effect that Arakune in blazblue has. The flamy shit at the bottom of his sprite is an ever moving alpha layer, palette colour on him, invisible once it passes beyond the bounds of his sprite. Can't replicate that in mugen. You could apply it directly to the sprite, but it won't accurately reflect how the effect works.

It's like SharedAlpha = 1 would need to be a thing, don't see that happening.


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