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Poison Ivy (Read 3240 times)

Started by Harbinger, September 16, 2018, 03:11:00 am
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Poison Ivy
#1  September 16, 2018, 03:11:00 am
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==============================================================
Character Name - Poison Ivy
Sprites - Harbinger
Code - Zvitor
==============================================================

A long time coming. I can't even remember when I started Ivy. Originally she was a Poison edit by .Batzarro. I offered my hand and she evolved from there. I lost everything in a PC crash in 2010 so started again. She's come a long way since then and I've learned a lot about sprite editing. Her stance proved a problem but does mean she's very heavily unique in her sprites as everything had to be edited!

Never thought I'd see her released but here we are!

Part of the Gotham Knights project. Watch this space

==============================================================
What's left:
==============================================================

- AI
- Ending Storyboard
- Move changes
- Fixes, edits and tweaks

==============================================================
Credits and Thanks:
==============================================================
- ZVitor for bringing her to life! Couldn't have done it without you
- navsmed41 for always being there to offer advice, critiques, keeping me going and for being a good friend
- Xfields for feedback, some help with sprites, teaching me to use new bases and again a good friend
- .Batzarro. for starting Ivy (although as a Poison edit) all those years ago. Please come back soon!
- Loganir for helping me put together an amazing stage, for feedback on sprites and for inspiring me
- The Unlimited for letting me be part of the team
- Tasia Valencia for her amazing Ivy voice - rips from Injustice 2 and the Arkahm games
- Kong for his sprite rips
- DC for creating Ivy - my favourite Gotham Siren
- And anyone I've missed! It's been such a long time coming there's loads more!

Download at
http://www.zvitor.com/projeto/ivy.html
Re: Poison Ivy
#2  September 16, 2018, 04:20:10 am
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Holy crap, I thought this wouldn't see the light of day but it's finally here! Good to see all of that hard work pay off.
Re: Poison Ivy
#3  September 16, 2018, 04:28:32 am
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It is always a pleasure to see a new character around here, especially since the sprites are quite original.
Hug the Pikachus!

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Re: Poison Ivy
#4  September 16, 2018, 04:30:45 am
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Bravo Bravo on the release! Great things do come to those who wait. Going to play the hell out of this character. Good luck on the A.I. I would love to experience the challenges she brings.

DW

Re: Poison Ivy
#5  September 16, 2018, 07:14:22 am
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First, I'll start by congratulating you on a job well done. Her sprites are very gorgeous. I haven't actually played with her in a match, though we'll get to that. I'm actually surprised that you were able to use Gill/Urien for bases with her various animations. It turned out pretty nice surprising enough. I remember talking about her when she was in early development.

I remember Jmorphman talking about her stance. While initially, it didn't seem out of place... Looking at it in action... It isn't bad, though I think JMM had a point. It's not very befitting of her. Though as of now, it works. I'm sure this was started before Injustice 2 was a thing, though now, I think giving her something more akin to that stance would work better. That's honestly the only gripe I have sprite wise. I'm not sure if the different versions of her is a winpose thing, like Morrigan or Athena changing outfits winpose, though looking through her SFF, I like seeing all the different versions you added for her.

You even put the Uma Thurman and "The Batman" versions in there. Which is really cool to see in sprite form. Gameplay wise, there's a fair amount that could be refined/tweaked/ironed out. I'm not sure if I'll get into it all, because my testing/feedback 'days' are few and far in between. Mainly due to laziness, though also because a lot of people aren't very receptive to feedback that doesn't give them blind high praise. So I don't even bother. I don't believe ZVitor/you to be that way, so it will all fall on me to give my feedback.

With that said, let's start with some preliminary stuff. Once I get more into using her in actual battles, I'll have more:

-Constant debug flood
-She doesn't turn around properly when jumping over p2. If you keep holding up, she will not turn to face p2.
-VS gameplay is a very fickle and nuance style. There's a lot to consider when doing it. I'm...not sure if I want to go into it all/overwhelm you guys, so I'll try to be as clear as possible and give it to you piece by piece over time:
 *Super jumping shouldn't be restricted to just pressing Down > Up quickly. You should also be able to press Down > Up-Forward/Up-Back and super jump in the respective direction.
 *Chaining should allow the char to go from standing attacks > crouching attacks and vise-versa. So long as you're following the chain rules of punches to kicks, light > med > heavy.
-Her sound file is WAY too large. Pick which samples you like best and just stick with those. I'm sure she has dozens of samples, though it's really not necessary to use them all.
-Still on her voices: The way they overlap is extremely annoying. All of the voices should use the same sound channel. Preferably channel 0, as that's what's used for the char's hit sounds by default I believe. Her voices could also use a bit of editing to be more user friendly. Meaning they're too loud and abrasive as is.

As I said, I haven't played with her in actual combat yet. Still in the "honeymoon" phase with her. Though that's good for now. I'll drop more as I come across things.   
Last Edit: September 16, 2018, 02:31:09 pm by DivineWolf
Re: Poison Ivy
#6  September 16, 2018, 07:56:48 am
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I see a potential purple star here
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Re: Poison Ivy
#7  September 16, 2018, 09:26:57 am
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....sexy :)
I am Chinese
Re: Poison Ivy
#8  September 16, 2018, 10:53:55 am
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Wohooo!! Finally!
I cannot wait to try this piece of art!

I want to hug you...
Re: Poison Ivy
#9  September 16, 2018, 11:53:01 am
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@DivineWolf - Appreciate the comments on the sprites, have used a lot of bases as didn't want her to be another Psylocke/Rogue/Storm comic character. The costumes are an intro - she has 5 intros, and that one intro has 12 different costumes.

About the stance, I do agree, but it was one of the first things I created for her so every animation has transitions to that stance, get hits, attacks etc. If I was to change the stance I'd have to redo all transition sprites. Bit more work than I'd like.

Feedback wise - thanks for this, I've added them to the list. Splitting feedback into bugs and gameplay. Once you've tried her let me know as getting feedback on her gameplay would be handy (and you may find more bugs!)

Thanks everyone else
Re: Poison Ivy
#10  September 16, 2018, 02:44:38 pm
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I try it... She is a very good char !

DW

Re: Poison Ivy
#11  September 16, 2018, 02:46:25 pm
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@DivineWolf - Appreciate the comments on the sprites, have used a lot of bases as didn't want her to be another Psylocke/Rogue/Storm comic character. The costumes are an intro - she has 5 intros, and that one intro has 12 different costumes.

About the stance, I do agree, but it was one of the first things I created for her so every animation has transitions to that stance, get hits, attacks etc. If I was to change the stance I'd have to redo all transition sprites. Bit more work than I'd like.

Feedback wise - thanks for this, I've added them to the list. Splitting feedback into bugs and gameplay. Once you've tried her let me know as getting feedback on her gameplay would be handy (and you may find more bugs!)

Thanks everyone else

Looking over her sprites more and more, I can see that you did use a variety of bases to give her her own unique and very beautiful look. The beauty isn't just from being Ivy, the spritework in general is very well done. She looks really nice in motion and the detail/design is subtle, yet great at the same time. I do very much appreciate you not resorting to just using those Marvel female chars as they are highly overused when people attempt to make an unmade comic female.

As far as the stance, I totally understand. With transition frames and all, it isn't as simple as just making a new stance and slapping it in. Especially with a stance like she currently has. Was just tossing the idea out there, should you ever consider it in the future.

I do have a question about her sprites though. I see here that the various different versions and possibly some other sprites with her in them, don't share with her main pal scheme. Why not? There's plenty of room in her palette table for extra colors if you need. Not even the different costumes share with each other. The plant man has a different pal for basically each of his animations as well. Along with her various plant summons. This makes something like a CS kinda unpractical for her and is kinda just inefficient in general.



**EDIT:

-Crouching LP seems to be an infinite in the corner otg:

Spoiler, click to toggle visibilty

I did have the recovery option turned on for Training to be certain. She can kinda do it with crouch MP as well.

-Why does crouch MK knock p2 into the air? There's no reason I can see, why this is a thing. TBH, it makes any combo involving cr.MK feel janky. It also makes cr.MK not good for spacing/pokes. Although cr.LK is a better option in general, even if cr.MK didn't oddly pop p2 up, still doesn't excuse cr.MK's oddness.
Last Edit: September 16, 2018, 04:28:32 pm by DivineWolf
Re: Poison Ivy
#12  September 16, 2018, 04:41:22 pm
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thanks for feedback guys.

damn i forgot to  put voice sounds at same channel, will do it,
after all this years on openbor im a bit rusty on mugen.
plz come with more.
Re: Poison Ivy
#13  September 16, 2018, 05:05:35 pm
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very cool char
Re: Poison Ivy
#14  September 16, 2018, 05:25:23 pm
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Amazing. Thanks a lot.
Re: Poison Ivy
#15  September 16, 2018, 07:12:46 pm
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She's definitely a great looking character, but the gameplay definitely needs polish. Additionally to everything other people have already said, here's what I've found:

- On stages where the ground moves up and down, many of her flowers stay static.
- When the round ends while she is in her vine stance, it takes forever for her to finally go into her win animation.
- None of her attacks seem to have whiff sounds.
- The sound when she lands from a jump seems unfitting (sounds as if she wears shoes).
- Doesn't she have any back throws?
- No guard push or rolling on recovery either.
- She can't really do anything during a back dash, not even jump out of it.
- What's up with the Movelist.txt? It seems really outdated.
- Her "AI" has a habit of slowly floating downward and out of the screen after jumping.

Still, congrats on the release.  :megusta:

DW

Re: Poison Ivy
#16  September 17, 2018, 12:02:35 am
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-She has absolutely no cancels from what I can tell. So no normals >specials or supers.

-While she does look great, a lot of her animations, and just overall movement, is very sluggish and over-exaggerated. Her dash speeds and super jump speed feels ok, though that's about it... It feels pretty odd to use a VS themed char with such limited and sluggish mobility. She feels as slow(or slower in fact) as someone like Juggernaut or Zangief. Hulk can absolutely out pace/maneuver her. This ties into the super jump thing I mentioned yesterday, among other things

-Can't perform crouching attacks during forward dash. Also, she slides when performing normals/etc. from dashing... Now, this is normally a thing that was frowned upon. Sliding normals. However...FEXL does this, as well as many doujin type FGs I've heard. Playing FEXL, I've actually grown kinda used to this, so I suppose it could slide...? No pun intended. :P

-Much like cr.MK, why does stand HK knock p2 away? I guess currently, since she has no cancels, it somewhat has a function. Though I'm not sure that was intentional. Also jump HP and HK too? Man... her jumping normals aren't very good. Aside from the heavy variants, but, you made them knock p2 down as well! Even grounded, not from air combos! So this makes jump in combos with her extremely hard/next to impossible.

-On the above note, you should make her able to attack during her landing animations from jumps. This would make jump in combos a lot more viable.

- When the round ends while she is in her vine stance, it takes forever for her to finally go into her win animation.

-^On this note, her Vine Stance really shouldn't last indefinitely. It should just last for a few seconds if you don't do anything and she just goes back to her normal stance. In fact, if you want to add some 'mind game' like maneuvers to it, add the ability to quick cancel it yourself. Like make any punch cancel the move, instead of having the punches do the same thing as the kicks while in Vine Stance.

- The sound when she lands from a jump seems unfitting (sounds as if she wears shoes).

-Those are just the default VS system sounds. I suppose he could look for something different... Though I don't really see this as noteworthy.

- Doesn't she have any back throws?

-She does need this. At least the ability to switch sides with her current throw.

- She can't really do anything during a back dash, not even jump out of it.

-You're not supposed to. The only game I can think of where you can do something during a back dash is KoF. I suppose in the more recent MvC games, you can jump out of it? I'll have to confirm, but back dashes are solely meant as evasive maneuvers. It's actually the one good mobility tool she has atm. I suppose it may last a bit too long for certain tastes. Though I feel it to be ok.

 
- What's up with the Movelist.txt? It seems really outdated.

-Just an old remnant left over from development. You can tell by how it reads out.
Last Edit: September 17, 2018, 12:07:28 am by DivineWolf
Re: Poison Ivy
#17  September 17, 2018, 02:23:57 am
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thanks for feedback guys.

damn i forgot to  put voice sounds at same channel, will do it,
after all this years on openbor im a bit rusty on mugen.
plz come with more.

congrats on the release! This and Damien Wayne are 2 of the chars I was looking forward to
Re: Poison Ivy
#18  September 17, 2018, 05:15:07 am
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And they said it wouldn't happen...cool. She's gorgeous.

Do your best to become stronger. Become stronger, so you can do your best.

Mugen is a way for me to remain nostalgic with all of the dream matches I cooked up as a kid. It's also what I call a "Digital Action Figure Collection."
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Re: Poison Ivy
#19  September 17, 2018, 08:29:39 am
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Another thing: the hitbox for her grab is really crappy. Since it doesn't go all the way down to the ground, it becomes impossible to grab some smaller/crouching characters.
Re: Poison Ivy
#20  September 17, 2018, 11:59:39 am
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I just edited Zvitor's Jason Todd few days ago and now we have this? Damn great!
But then I tested her and I have to admit: she's a disappointment though. As much as I want to like this, I can't. Her moves are stiff, sprites still feel lacking and hitboxes are weird. Her Hypers feel lame and uninteresting and yet they seems to be unable to be cancelled from normal and special though, making her so underwhelming. This actually could have been a great character 4 years ago but now, not so great. That being said, those flaws can easily be fixed and I hope there will be updated for her.
I give this one 5/10 (5 is for the OK sprite-work, not really amazing but still usable). Nonetheless what I said about this, she is still a great base character for further improvements.
Still really looking forward your Robin. Since ZVitor's Jason Todd, his chars really went downhill though but I really hope that things will get better.