YesNoOk
avatar

Rogue (Read 37312 times)

Started by abls1, October 23, 2011, 02:08:17 pm
Share this topic:
Re: Rogue
#61  October 25, 2011, 05:05:08 am
  • ******
  • [E]
    • Mexico
Why would you even care aobut what gill says, he is obviously biased and you should just ignore him.
Re: Rogue
#62  October 25, 2011, 05:10:07 am
  • **
    • www.InfinityMugenTeam.com
You blew off ALL of the feedback here and also

I just got back from the Guild, and another frame thread but a bunch of users who didn't even download the character. I agree Cyanide had useful comments, just not actually useful for Rogue while sometimes even stating the facts a little off.

Sure you listened....:omg:

Yeah, I'll stand by that. Cyanide had useful comments and is teaching me what I don't know. The jump velocity can easily be negated since she does not need to follow a strict MvC2 regiment. Also there were mis-statements about the combo series which I clarified on. I could not have clarified had I not understood his message.
Re: Rogue
#63  October 25, 2011, 05:10:28 am
  • ****
  • The Absolute Worst
    • Canada
    • Skype - do.not.even.ask
    • randomselect.piiym.net/
Orochi Gill is just biased against IMT releases. If Moldredd's God Ken came from IMT, he wouldn't like it. If ZUN released his Touhou Project games in IMT, OG'd hate it all and wouldn't have big-titted avatars of its characters.
Re: Rogue
#64  October 25, 2011, 05:31:57 am
  • ****
  • "OHHH YES!"
    • Canada
I'm fine with you running a forum acey, but I suggest you make sure people like Sanji don't act out like this, especially putting words in your mouth. Even if I don't go to IMT, I generally like to judge people from their actions, not the actions given by people speaking for them when it's not necessary.

But are there truly grown men in this world?!
Re: Rogue
#65  October 25, 2011, 05:54:10 am
  • ***
  • Figuring things out, one sprite at a time.
    • irwt.iammanyninjas.com
- Damage dampener required; can effortlessly create 8+ hit strings from basics alone that can claim 400+ damage. (s.lp>s.lk>s.mp>s.mk>s.hk>a.lp>a.lk>a.mp>a.mk>a.hk for example)
- Seems odd that c.mk can hit grounded opponents despite kick itself being nowhere even close.
- Dive kick can be done immediately after a.hk or a.hp, actually letting you land before the downhit opponent with enough time to sneak in an extra hit.
- Dive kick has odd behaviour in corner; Rogue actually dives away from the opponent.
- Mr. Fantastic/Dhalsim inspired stretch punch can be repeated for 15 hits, taking 300 damage. If the same move is done 14 times then followed by the lvl 1 super version, it can take 553 damage total.
- Sabretooh themed super seems to be the same as the stolen special but with 20 extra damage, making it 100 total.
- Forte themed super can spam into itself with little effort, results in 36 hit combo that does 900 damage. Can be followed up with any basics, leading to a certain 100% damage combo. Even if you use just one super, you can still easily chain into a basic combo for 600+ damage with little effort.
- Zangief/Haggar super has no pause as far as I can tell. Also, s.lp>s.lk>s.mp>s.mk>super for 450 damage. Quite a bit for just a single power stock.
- Juggernault themed rock slide just moves oddly. While I am guessing it is implied to be a rolling cascade of rocks, it just really doesn't work in this current incarnation.
- Rockman/Roll themed special seems to have a bug when charging. Possible to charge and mash out command using another button in such a way that you can shoot multiple projectiles in a row just by hitting the last kick key used.
- Magneto special and super projectiles have cornerpush.
- Human Torch special can miss at point blank range on thinner opponents.
- Charlie super can combo after itself, has same issues as Forte super as it also can be followed with basics.
- Noticing quite a few stolen power sets where the super is basically just a higher damage version of the special.
Re: Rogue
#66  October 25, 2011, 06:50:53 am
  • ****
  • I see you.
    • www.mugenfreeforall.com
see there you go acey use rolentos feedback to improve
You'll fix chuchoryu ? Sounds like a plan. How about you code him from scratch instead ?
Star Fucker said:
Do you often run naked in the streets screaming "YOU STUPID ASS FAGGOT NIGGA BITCHES WHY YOU NO HELP ME WITH MY MATH HOMEWORK !!!!???!!!!"
Re: Rogue
#67  October 25, 2011, 08:28:42 am
  • ******
  • Legendary XIII
  • I am the eye of the storm to come!
    • New Zealand
    • network.mugenguild.com/cyanide/
I apologise, i got the kick chaining wrong. You can bounce between LP and LK for up to 6 hits (No Vs character can do that. once you move to the next key the combo chain ends)

I'm not saying that chaining is bad, just that all the Vs games have chaining rules, and they're consistent. And you aren't following them at all.

The zigzag chain which most characters have for a super jump is lp>lk>mp>mk>hk/hp

You don't get to go backwards, or in a strange order lk>lp>mk>mp should not function. (in this it doesn't thankfully)

Even if this is part of a game, you need to alter and define the combo system or everything feels too much like everything else. That means setting the rules for attacks that chain and adhering to them. Really, head to gamefaqs and have a look at Djellybeans FAQ for MSHvSF, it talks about the whole combo system far better than me.

If you want your own style that's fine, but come up with some rules for it, don't just let chains occur


In M.U.G.E.N there is no magic button

They say a little knowledge is a dangerous thing, but it's not one half so bad as a lot of ignorance.
Re: Rogue
#68  October 25, 2011, 04:37:02 pm
  • **
    • www.InfinityMugenTeam.com
I apologise, i got the kick chaining wrong. You can bounce between LP and LK for up to 6 hits (No Vs character can do that. once you move to the next key the combo chain ends)

I'm not saying that chaining is bad, just that all the Vs games have chaining rules, and they're consistent. And you aren't following them at all....

* The presidence for 6 hits is more agile characters (e.g. Spider-man MvC3) which ruins your opportunity to do a full combo leading into a launcher. I agree with you though, Rogue should have more than 3 light hit chains, actually I think I'll stick with 2. This is easly fixed by giving her a slightly longer recovery on the LP and LK.

* Regarding chains I think either you or I must be missing something, so I'd really like to focus on chaining for a second. Rogue has a very exact chaining pattern I listed in my post above. Nothing more, nothing less. This isn't even "my style", this is straight out of the MvC book (MvC2 adjusted for 6 button.) So what about this system do you think is incorrect? See explaination below:

Quote
Combo Chain 1 = LP->LK->MP->MK->Hard attack (stand, crouch or air)
Combo Chain 2 = Light->Medium->Hard (stand, crouch or air), you can skip medium if you want.
Normals Chain into Specials. Specials into Hypers.
In general you can not chain normals into stolen attacks. Most stolen attacks can not be done in the air, excpetions include Hadouken, Mega Buster and Ice Blast.

- Damage dampener required; can effortlessly create 8+ hit strings from basics alone that can claim 400+ damage. (s.lp>s.lk>s.mp>s.mk>s.hk>a.lp>a.lk>a.mp>a.mk>a.hk for example)
- Seems odd that c.mk can hit grounded opponents despite kick itself being nowhere even close.
- Dive kick can be done immediately after a.hk or a.hp, actually letting you land before the downhit opponent with enough time to sneak in an extra hit.
- Dive kick has odd behaviour in corner; Rogue actually dives away from the opponent.
- Mr. Fantastic/Dhalsim inspired stretch punch can be repeated for 15 hits, taking 300 damage. If the same move is done 14 times then followed by the lvl 1 super version, it can take 553 damage total.
- Sabretooh themed super seems to be the same as the stolen special but with 20 extra damage, making it 100 total.
- Forte themed super can spam into itself with little effort, results in 36 hit combo that does 900 damage. Can be followed up with any basics, leading to a certain 100% damage combo. Even if you use just one super, you can still easily chain into a basic combo for 600+ damage with little effort.
- Zangief/Haggar super has no pause as far as I can tell. Also, s.lp>s.lk>s.mp>s.mk>super for 450 damage. Quite a bit for just a single power stock.
- Juggernault themed rock slide just moves oddly. While I am guessing it is implied to be a rolling cascade of rocks, it just really doesn't work in this current incarnation.
- Rockman/Roll themed special seems to have a bug when charging. Possible to charge and mash out command using another button in such a way that you can shoot multiple projectiles in a row just by hitting the last kick key used.
- Magneto special and super projectiles have cornerpush.
- Human Torch special can miss at point blank range on thinner opponents.
- Charlie super can combo after itself, has same issues as Forte super as it also can be followed with basics.
- Noticing quite a few stolen power sets where the super is basically just a higher damage version of the special.

* I agree a damage dampiner is required, the damage dampiner made it into the full game version but but into this version.
* Dive kick is intentional. You want that free extra hit while grounding.
* As for the stolen attacks, this is good feedback. it ought to only take an hour to tweak the listed items and I'll post an update.
* It's true, some of the hyper sets are simply stronger versions of the stolen power, like Iceman, Magneto, etc... that was due o time constraints on the fiit release of XSC and ZVitor was able to quickly blow through the list of XSC characters by giving them super upgraded hypers. Those will be revisted at a later date as necessary.
Re: Rogue
#69  October 25, 2011, 04:48:30 pm
  • ******
  • 日本は素晴らしい国です。
So for everyone out there who truely wants to play an amazing Rogue, wonderfuly programmed with great chaining, solid gameplay and full of tons of extras then this is a download you won't want to miss. Ignore the liars. I'm always listening. It's those who aren't afraid to speak up against the socail norm who change the world.

That's a terrible attitude Acey.  Changing the world? A bit overreactive, dont you think?

As was ignoring Rajaa effort to cull down on the flames and then going to imt and talking about
 
Quote
I just got back from the Guild, and another frame thread but a bunch of users who didn't even download the character. I agree Cyanide had useful comments, just not actually useful for Rogue while sometimes even stating the facts a little off.

Feedback is feedback, the timings being off makes the animation skip weirdly about, that was one piece of feedback I had given even on the fullgame back when it was first released.  if you have 4 frames and they go 2 ticks, 3 ticks, 4 ticks, 1 tick, it gives an effect of slowing down and then a quicker finisher, if you set them to 2 ticks, 2 ticks, 2 ticks, 2 ticks, the impact is gone and instead the move will feel differently. Timings matter on animation.
Re: Rogue
#70  October 25, 2011, 06:29:11 pm
  • **
    • www.InfinityMugenTeam.com
That's a terrible attitude Acey.  Changing the world? A bit overreactive, dont you think?...

Feedback is feedback, the timings being off makes the animation skip weirdly about, that was one piece of feedback I had given even on the fullgame back when it was first released.  if you have 4 frames and they go 2 ticks, 3 ticks, 4 ticks, 1 tick, it gives an effect of slowing down and then a quicker finisher, if you set them to 2 ticks, 2 ticks, 2 ticks, 2 ticks, the impact is gone and instead the move will feel differently. Timings matter on animation.

@ Iced, Melodramatic sure, bad attitude, I disagree. Plaining stating "I'm always listening" to feedback against the claims that I do not is a plea to the general populous to ignore all the comments stating that I ignore feedback. I want constructive critisism that I can use to improve the programming and game play.

Re: Timing, I must have missed that part in this thread, nor do I set my aniamtions to any one digit across the board. I give consistent attention to start up time, hit frame and recovery time. According to the example given above I must ask, "did you download the character?" and "where did you see any such issues as you stated in the character?"
Re: Rogue
#71  October 25, 2011, 06:32:09 pm
  • ******
  • My power is maximum
  • Never order spooky spaghetti
    • USA
You were quoted saying your char was great and well-made, and I quoted you at IMT saying they never downloaded it and they were all wrong, and you have the audacity to come here and say you had a good attitude?

Thanks Ace. Got a lot of stuff in there I couldn't quite explain on my own. Sorry if it turned into a bit of a war. Now I know how world conflicts start. ;*))

I appreciate that you called them out for doing exctly what they were doing, which was bashing without useful feedback. I know it's not easy to step in there and speak your mind always with that crowd.

The plot thickens...
Last Edit: October 25, 2011, 06:36:59 pm by Orochi Gill
Re: Rogue
#72  October 25, 2011, 06:54:33 pm
  • *****
  • IG @tanooki_ninja
    • Puerto Rico
    • maxbeta.webs.com/mugen.htm

VAN A SEGUIR CON LA MISMA MIERDA????

I don't have anything against you Acey, but here's my two cents...
I been following this thread and noticed that every single piece of feedback from most users is indeed a valuable piece to fixing issues with your Rogue.
Stop being stubborn about your mistakes in your creation, you are not perfect...I learned this too when I was being a little whinny dick about this kind of thing a few years ago cause other people are right sometimes.
Forget the bashing and naysaying and just be a man and fix your shit.

Otherwise, people will just continue to play with seemingly upgraded versions of Kong's creations, which as we all know are nicely animated but horribly coded and very very rushed.

That's it. bye.
"We need other people in order to create the circumstances for the learning that we are here to generate" RIP Adam Yauch aka MCA
www.instagram.com/tanooki_ninja
Re: Rogue
#73  October 25, 2011, 07:07:03 pm
  • ****
  • robert cop
    • UK
    • sites.google.com/site/meldosmugensite/
Acey, I'm also sorry about saying your Rouge is worse than Kong's. But you can't always say your character is great because it takes a lot of time to make something decent or make it better than any other creation on IMT.
Re: Rogue
#74  October 25, 2011, 07:10:00 pm
  • ******
  • Another ClayFighter turned MUGEN Creator
  • Call me daddy!!
    • Chile
    • network.mugenguild.com/basara/
Ow wow, I see this thread has a clone here :P

I read the whole thread, too, and it's the same-ol' story: IMT char being released, people getting serious feedback, a white-knight guy definding it, people labeling this as "more IMT shit", and again Acey just defending his stuff taking the feedback as attacks and "shit" comment-like...

I want to ask to the people who played with Rogue (and the same Acey who made it): is this like Buyog's Parasite, that has the same power of absorving and emulating powers?? I mean, I think it should be a comparision between both chars
Re: Rogue
#75  October 25, 2011, 08:02:41 pm
  • ******
  • Portrait Prodigy EX+
    • mugenguild.com/forum/topics/saikoros-high-resolution-mugen-portraits-fatal-fury-full-set-145724.0.html

VAN A SEGUIR CON LA MISMA MIERDA????

I don't have anything against you Acey, but here's my two cents...
I been following this thread and noticed that every single piece of feedback from most users is indeed a valuable piece to fixing issues with your Rogue.
Stop being stubborn about your mistakes in your creation, you are not perfect...I learned this too when I was being a little whinny dick about this kind of thing a few years ago cause other people are right sometimes.
Forget the bashing and naysaying and just be a man and fix your shit.

Otherwise, people will just continue to play with seemingly upgraded versions of Kong's creations, which as we all know are nicely animated but horribly coded and very very rushed.

That's it. bye.

Agreed. MaxBeta made a good point here. I've seen plenty of other forum threads pertaining to feedback, and from what I think, ANY of Sean Altly's posts are great examples. Sean's threads go through plenty of discussion without too many problems even if there are whirlwinds of debate. And if shit hits the fan, its usually overcome through leveling words, and thoughts, out (case in point, Jin Kazama's thread). Generally speaking (I'm being diplomatic as possible here), I think people need to stop becomming overly defensive and one sided in any argument. It's plain silly actually.

Take feedback for what it's worth and improve as a whole from it.
All of your Mugen Portrait needs may be found HERE.

I'd like to report two robots on the MFG forums: One is EXShadow. The other is Saikoro.
There should be a Saikoro plugin for Photoshop.
Last Edit: October 25, 2011, 09:25:47 pm by Saikoro
Re: Rogue
#76  October 25, 2011, 09:06:18 pm
  • **
    • www.InfinityMugenTeam.com
Stop being stubborn about your mistakes in your creation, you are not perfect...I learned this too when I was being a little whinny dick about this kind of thing a few years ago cause other people are right sometimes.

I'm all for the feedback, no problem there. I'm sure you read my comments above. As a matter of fact thanks to Rolento's proper use of feedback I actually have some usable actions items.

@ Basara: I wrote this out a few pages back now but Rogue steals 1 special, 1 hyper, 1 attribute (life, speed, defense, etc...) and at times changes colors. This is for the 50 different characters programmed in at this time. For everyone else in mugen she only steals an attribute.
Re: Rogue
#77  October 25, 2011, 09:41:22 pm
  • ******
  • Loyal to the Game
    • USA
    • http://jesuszilla.trinitymugen.net/
No, what we're saying is, feedback is feedback. You gonna ignore every piece of feedback that contains "fuck," "shit," "piss," "damn," or, god forbid, "bad," or, "TERRIBLE?"

Or do we actually have to know the system inside and out like Cyanide does in order to give you feedback? Great, you just eliminated like 98% of all feedback you could possibly get.

Coding and playing are two different things, and that's why you have to listen to both types of people. Just because you can code doesn't mean you know how to play, and just because you know how to play doesn't mean you can code.
Last Edit: October 25, 2011, 09:45:13 pm by Jesuszilla
Re: Rogue
#78  October 25, 2011, 09:53:14 pm
  • ******
  • 日本は素晴らしい国です。
Acey, my example about animation comes from all the coments about the basics being wrong, the animation being out of sync was a problem with the beta versions which I have tested( in the previous full release of the x-men game) . I have not , nor will I beta test this new version in detail, i dont have the time.
When that problem is pinpointed by others i was pointing out that i had previously spoke about it, and then gave an example of why that would be important, I am not saying that you have frames that go uniformly, but you had frames that werent animated with the same timing as the original animators, if you fixed them or not, thats up to you to know, but your reaction being like this , claiming that its only flaming and etc when rajaa himself was stopping flamers and you had a person white knighting around like an asshole trying to dictate which feedbacks should be had or not is a really bad move.

I said my piece and Ive helped you in what I can, if you want to ignore feedback or to send people to "control that crowd" then that's beyond what I can do to help.
Peace
Re: Rogue
#79  October 25, 2011, 10:32:46 pm
  • ******
  • [E]
    • Mexico
No, what we're saying is, feedback is feedback. You gonna ignore every piece of feedback that contains "fuck," "shit," "piss," "damn," or, god forbid, "bad," or, "TERRIBLE?"

actualy yes, fuck them; if they can't deliver feedback decently they should go fuck themselves.
Re: Rogue
#80  October 26, 2011, 12:14:01 am
  • **
  • Q
Wow, with rolento's feedback I am actually very happy that I did this, even if it rattled more than a few cages. See, thats how I always see these great little threads of feedback.