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New Explod based Buffer System (Read 24362 times)

Started by Just No Point, June 23, 2017, 09:09:55 am
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Re: New Explod based Buffer System
#21  June 28, 2017, 05:51:09 am
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I like it, it fixes the cmd bug and its super easy to put it place.
I have some stuff to say thou, I change the order of commands
In the cns-2 code you posted to give more priority to shoryu
Inputs because they feel a bit strick to pull of at the moment.
It doesn't make a huge difference but if its possible to make it
Easier that would be nice.

And for some reason if I use this templates run commands they work
Weird, you dash if you push B, F or F, B quick enough instead of just
F, F OR B, B
Re: New Explod based Buffer System
#22  June 28, 2017, 09:27:26 am
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How did you change it so that shoryu is easier? It should have more priority than qcf.

I've not seen the B,F = run bug and not sure how that'd happen. But I'll test it when I wake up. I suspect even if it is a thing our next update will fix it when we completely remove all directional inputs for explod based ones.

Also did you see my edit saying infinite negative edge isn't a bug? It's not a bug!
Re: New Explod based Buffer System
#23  June 28, 2017, 09:30:47 am
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I moved it above the other commands, I saw the last post.
That run bug only happens on my side, kfm is fine on that.
Re: New Explod based Buffer System
#24  June 28, 2017, 09:41:52 am
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It's already above the other commands in the .cmd. You moved it in -2 and it made it easier? Did it make qcfx2 harder? Actually if you want to help me and JMM make this better and talk shop feel free to join the Guild discord and we can work together

https://discord.gg/cf8qg75
Re: New Explod based Buffer System
#25  June 28, 2017, 10:07:51 am
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What I ment by arranging the commands to make
shoryu easier, I arranged the explods order in -2.
I put them I this order

F,D,DF
B,D,DB
QCF
QCF2
QCB
QCB2
FF
BB

The QCF2 commands feel fine
Re: New Explod based Buffer System
#26  June 28, 2017, 02:17:15 pm
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Okay, I didn't actually think that'd affect the priority of the moves. My limited testing they seemed fine but I'm not a hardcore KFM player :p I'll rearrange them for the update.
Re: New Explod based Buffer System
#27  June 28, 2017, 04:49:51 pm
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I think the order makes them a little easier to pull
off, its not a big difference but its good to have
The command on top just incase.  It might all be
In my head lol.

After some playing last night I feel like the end command
For shoryu is the issue, you have to end it exactly with
DF or it wont work. Adding DF, F as a ender for the command
As well as DF would make it feel a little better.
Re: New Explod based Buffer System
#28  June 28, 2017, 05:48:28 pm
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You don't have to end exactly on DF. You have to press P within 10 ticks of pressing DF. If you find this too strict increase the amount of time the DF explod lasts. And increase pausetime and supermovetime accordingly as well.
Re: New Explod based Buffer System
#29  June 28, 2017, 06:43:40 pm
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Ok ill try that out
Re: New Explod based Buffer System
#30  July 10, 2017, 05:03:13 pm
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Me and JNP have drastically revamped this system, and now have a beta out with the new, retooled system applied to one of my characters.

We're either gonna have to completely rewrite the first post in this thread, or else trash it and start a new one.
Re: New Explod based Buffer System
#31  July 10, 2017, 07:56:32 pm
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I'll trash it when I make the new one

ink

Re: New Explod based Buffer System
#32  July 28, 2017, 06:06:48 pm
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I know I am late to this thread but is there any benefits/disadvantages to using this buffer system versus Vans buffer system?
Re: New Explod based Buffer System
#33  July 28, 2017, 07:07:05 pm
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There's probably more for both, but here are the big ones:

The biggest benefit is that you don't have a one-tick delay in inputs since you aren't relying on a helper (which is why the one-tick delay happens)

The biggest disadvantage is that it's possible to exceed MUGEN's default explod limit with explod-heavy characters (which you can edit in mugen.cfg)

ink

Re: New Explod based Buffer System
#34  July 28, 2017, 07:13:10 pm
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Thanks for the quick reply!

I assumed the 1 tick delay was only when the helper is first spawned though. Meaning there would be no delay for Vans system since it's only spawned ones, not over and over. Am I wrong?
Re: New Explod based Buffer System
#35  July 28, 2017, 07:15:28 pm
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I just want to reiterate that everything in this thread is horribly outdated and that our buffering system has been majorly refined since this thread was started, so dramatically changed that we've written up an entirely new tutorial for it that is in its finishing stages. Reading back on this stuff just makes me wince. All these complicated solutions to get around hitpause when we should've just used a helper and read all the input from there! And no accounting for commands reversing mid-input! What fools we were a month ago!

But uh yeah, the explod based buffering system creates a bunch of (invisible) explods (potentially you could have around 40 from an individual character if their player randomly mashes buttons + directions), which is kind of a waste of resources, but MUGEN only gives us a limited amount of variables, so we gotta improvise! But from our (and others') beta testing, there doesn't seem to be any performance hiccups, so the impact is hopefully minimal.

The helper + variable based buffering method uses (the helper's own) variables to store inputs, so things are more compact and a lot less wasteful. Unfortunately however, passing that data back to the player takes one tick, so there is an unavoidable one-tick input delay when using this method.

So I guess it all comes down to which one of those drawbacks is least bothersome.

The biggest benefit is that you don't have a one-tick delay in inputs since you aren't relying on a helper (which is why the one-tick delay happens)
The (new) system does actually rely on a helper (with keyctrl = 1), but only to read inputs from, which makes it easy to know whether a given "forward / backward" input is a "left / right" input, and also makes it so hitpause doesn't screw anything up. And since all we're reading in from the helper is the input that helper is currently detecting, there's no lag!
Last Edit: July 28, 2017, 07:19:31 pm by Jmorphman
Re: New Explod based Buffer System
#36  July 28, 2017, 07:21:58 pm
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Man miss a few days and the whole world goes nuts (mutter, mutter, mutter...)

j/k good job

ink

Re: New Explod based Buffer System
#37  July 28, 2017, 07:49:00 pm
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Unfortunately however, passing that data back to the player takes one tick, so there is an unavoidable one-tick input delay when using this method.
I'm sorry but I'm not sure that is true. I really think you just lose 1 tick of time when spawning the helper, not when passing the data back to the play. Is there a way to check?

Nevermind, you are right!


Last Edit: July 28, 2017, 08:08:37 pm by ink
Re: New Explod based Buffer System
#38  July 28, 2017, 08:09:43 pm
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You can have the player spawn an explod whenever a QCF is performed (or even just have it spawn when a single direction has been input), and have it so that one explod is created to the left of P1 when the buffering system tells the player that QCF has been input, and then have another explod created to the right of P1 that spawns when MUGEN's own command parser tells the player that QCF has been input. The left explod will be created one tick after the right one.
Re: New Explod based Buffer System
#39  August 03, 2017, 10:01:19 pm
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Re: New Explod based Buffer System
#40  August 03, 2017, 10:50:25 pm
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Is this like a striker system or something?

Im trying to understand here,
but im like a fat kid who belongs in the kitchen, but im stuck in the science lab...
Slow and steady wins the race, but there is a darkness... growing inside of me...

And if you provoke it...

I will slay you all.

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