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"Tiny Buffering" Update [Divinewolf] UPDATE: 27.06.18 (Read 9935 times)

Started by Cruz, June 11, 2018, 09:15:46 am
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Re: "Tiny Buffering" Update [Divinewolf] UPDATE: 18.06.18
#21  June 19, 2018, 06:08:57 pm
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I really dont know what to say. Here's KoopaKoot's Terry I can hit anything with him be it on a pad or a keyboard.
https://streamable.com/ilfp3

Edit: Let me get my arcade stick unpacked and test Shermie there.
 will edit this post with results after 5 mins.

Edit again, just tested shermie with a madcatz arcade stick, its the same for me, it feels like random, tried it in kof2002um/mugen/USF4/Old school fighters like 3rd strike and the arcade stick is fine.
Last Edit: June 19, 2018, 06:31:24 pm by PeXXeR

DW

Re: "Tiny Buffering" Update [Divinewolf] UPDATE: 18.06.18
#22  June 19, 2018, 06:47:14 pm
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Does Koop use the buffering system? IDK, at any rate, I would like to get Vans input on this.

@Vans:

Please grace us with your presence.
Re: "Tiny Buffering" Update [Divinewolf] UPDATE: 18.06.18
#23  June 19, 2018, 06:56:48 pm
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<- I exercise and dance like that regularly!
Re: "Tiny Buffering" Update [Divinewolf] UPDATE: 18.06.18
#24  June 19, 2018, 07:00:35 pm
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What’s the command time in the .cmd for that particular command set to? Post the entire command here.

DW

Re: "Tiny Buffering" Update [Divinewolf] UPDATE: 18.06.18
#25  June 19, 2018, 07:14:35 pm
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It may need more time, idk:

Spoiler, click to toggle visibilty

8 frames for the buffer itself.
Re: "Tiny Buffering" Update [Divinewolf] UPDATE: 18.06.18
#26  June 19, 2018, 07:16:42 pm
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20 should be plenty for that, though why the release on the first direction? Capcom always has that as a hold.
Re: "Tiny Buffering" Update [Divinewolf] UPDATE: 18.06.18
#27  June 19, 2018, 07:39:22 pm
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Does Koop use the buffering system? IDK, at any rate, I would like to get Vans input on this.

@Vans:

Please grace us with your presence.

I think it  does, it has that buffering kofy file like all of Vans's chars

DW

Re: "Tiny Buffering" Update [Divinewolf] UPDATE: 18.06.18
#28  June 19, 2018, 08:31:23 pm
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Not sure really. How do you suggest I express it?
Re: "Tiny Buffering" Update [Divinewolf] UPDATE: 18.06.18
#29  June 23, 2018, 09:16:37 am
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Hello! I am sorry for being so late to reply, I was a bit swamped with work.

Actually there are two things that might be making that command more difficult to do.

- The first is that in KOF there is plenty of time to perform the joystick movements. For half circle motions this is usually between 21 and 24 frames. This can be measured using an emulator with a step framing function as follows:

Perform the HCB command by doing f (3), df(3), d(3), db(3), b(3), button  The (3) denotes that the direction should be held for 3 frames. If it works, this means that you have at least 18 frames to input a half circle motion. Increase the time spent holding one direction by one frame, and test it by doing:

Code:
f (4), df(3), d(3), db(3), b(3),
f (4), df(4), d(3), db(3), b(3),
f (4), df(4), d(4), db(3), b(3),
f (4), df(4), d(4), db(4), b(3),
f (4), df(4), d(4), db(4), b(4),
f (5), df(4), d(4), db(4), b(4)...

And so on, until the move fails. The last pattern you obtain will let you know how much time the game allows for the player to enter the command and still get the special move.

This is the time you should be using in the "time" parameter when you define them in the .CMD. Remember, changes in this parameter define how long the player has to input the directions on the joystick, so this will have a direct impact on how strict they feel.

- The second and very important thing is that in KOF it is possible to "cheat" diagonals because the official NeoGeo hardware utilized an 8-way joystick. In general most SNK joystick motions will feel "lighter" and easier to perform due to this design difference.

In modern fighting games the diagonals are seldom required to be 100% strict, even in Capcom games. So one possibility would be to redesign the command to be a little more lenient in this direction.

One compromise could be turning the command into a "power geyser" style half circle. That is, something like

Code:
 ~F, DF,$D,B 

This retains the strictness of the first diagonal (which is usually input by the player) but becomes forgiving in the second. Not too strict and not too easy.

I hope this helps.


DW

Re: "Tiny Buffering" Update [Divinewolf] UPDATE: 18.06.18
#30  June 24, 2018, 10:11:44 pm
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Yes, it does help. Thank you. I'm going to go with the "half cheat" method you gave there. It is a good middle for not being too easy, though less strict as well.
Re: "Tiny Buffering" Update [Divinewolf] UPDATE: 25.06.18
#31  June 25, 2018, 04:50:35 pm
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Thanks Vans for this information!
The buffering system has been updated.
Current Project: ????? ???
Projects
Re: "Tiny Buffering" Update [Divinewolf] UPDATE: 25.06.18
#32  June 26, 2018, 03:04:11 pm
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Thanks Cruz, Vans and DW everything works correctly now, good job !
Re: "Tiny Buffering" Update [Divinewolf] UPDATE: 25.06.18
#33  June 27, 2018, 12:15:26 pm
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I think you need to fix your palette problem, Cruz...
Give Kula a big hug!
Last Edit: June 27, 2018, 12:23:24 pm by WumpaFruit96
Re: "Tiny Buffering" Update [Divinewolf] UPDATE: 27.06.18
#34  June 27, 2018, 05:27:52 pm
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Re: "Tiny Buffering" Update [Divinewolf] UPDATE: 27.06.18
#35  July 03, 2018, 03:00:27 am
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Oh right, one more thing, guys:

Hope you implemented AI in your updated characters, otherwise they're going to stand there and do nothing due to how buffering works. That's just how the cookie crumbles. You absolutely must implement AI if you use this buffering system.

DW

Re: "Tiny Buffering" Update [Divinewolf] UPDATE: 27.06.18
#36  July 03, 2018, 03:43:58 pm
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I knew that from the beginning. Once I implement it into everyone I might do something. Though it'll just be literally Mugen's default "AI". AI is an outsource thing for me.
Re: "Tiny Buffering" Update [Divinewolf] UPDATE: 27.06.18
#37  July 03, 2018, 03:59:55 pm
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AI is an outsource thing for me.
Not sure if I understand this sentence. If by outsource you mean something that you prefer others to provide, why exactly you never internalize those AI patches? Each your update likely breaks all external patches created for your characters, so we're at situation that people who are not actively playing as your characters, but against them, are better suited sticking with char versions that are several years old. Don't get your approach to AI, really.
Re: "Tiny Buffering" Update [Divinewolf] UPDATE: 27.06.18
#38  July 03, 2018, 05:08:05 pm
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Not necessarily. The buffering update alone would not affect AI behavior. Only things such as move property changes would.

Besides, I’m sure he still knows how to update anything in AI that looks suspect.

DW

Re: "Tiny Buffering" Update [Divinewolf] UPDATE: 27.06.18
#39  July 03, 2018, 05:09:13 pm
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I don't have a approach to it, because I don't care about it. Though by outsource, I mean someone I choose, not just anyone. Then it would be apart of the char. Though more than likely, I'll have to do it myself, to keep them Win compatible.
Re: "Tiny Buffering" Update [Divinewolf] UPDATE: 27.06.18
#40  July 03, 2018, 06:10:08 pm
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Haven't really looked into AI since my characters doesn't have it. I was thinking if I did do AI, I'd use a helper if that was a viable approach.
Current Project: ????? ???
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