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How to rip off Banjo-Kazooie's Wonderwing from Smash Bros Ultimate? (Read 605 times)

Started by Mimikyutest77, October 28, 2019, 02:10:44 am
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How to rip off Banjo-Kazooie's Wonderwing from Smash Bros Ultimate?
#1  October 28, 2019, 02:10:44 am
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Banjo-Kazooie has this move where he decides to bird up and invincibly charge forwards, also some wing icons appear overhead to show how many uses of this move you have left. It's a great move and I want to rip it off, except it'll only deal 70 damage on hit and have 7 uses per life. No regenerating uses over time, you regenerate more uses of the move when the round ends and a new round begins.
Re: How to rip off Banjo-Kazooie's Wonderwing from Smash Bros Ultimate?
#2  October 28, 2019, 02:12:56 am
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Re: How to rip off Banjo-Kazooie's Wonderwing from Smash Bros Ultimate?
#3  October 28, 2019, 07:28:25 am
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This is also the simplest one. Variables normally reset each round anyway so you can do a basic counter. When the variable is 7 or more you can't do the m9ve any more.

Nice easy start point for vars.


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Re: How to rip off Banjo-Kazooie's Wonderwing from Smash Bros Ultimate?
#4  October 28, 2019, 06:57:47 pm
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Why 70 damage though?
There are already moves that work similarly and do more damage(and don't have a use limit)
Re: How to rip off Banjo-Kazooie's Wonderwing from Smash Bros Ultimate?
#5  October 31, 2019, 11:33:23 pm
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Why 70 damage though?
There are already moves that work similarly and do more damage(and don't have a use limit)

Good point, 70 damage is too low.

How would you choose convert that percentage damage the move deals into mugen HP damage? I was thinking 120 might be a better number. Or 150.
Re: How to rip off Banjo-Kazooie's Wonderwing from Smash Bros Ultimate?
#6  October 31, 2019, 11:35:26 pm
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 If the move has such a strict limitation alongside the flaws on top of that such as this (and in an environment that is less forgiving about Wonderwing's flaws than Smash), it better actually be worth the use. 200 damage sounds more reasonable tbh.
Re: How to rip off Banjo-Kazooie's Wonderwing from Smash Bros Ultimate?
#7  November 02, 2019, 03:10:48 am
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If the move has such a strict limitation alongside the flaws on top of that such as this (and in an environment that is less forgiving about Wonderwing's flaws than Smash), it better actually be worth the use. 200 damage sounds more reasonable tbh.

Wonderwing's flaws? Like what? This move seems amazing, incredibly dominant and something even able to beat a Snooze-spamming Hero. Plus few characters have high jumps or spotdodge/counter moves in mugen.

Also Wonderwing is invincible. What if a player used this move 7 times in a row? 7x200 is 1400. That's enough to kill almost any character. 7 uses of "Eat this 200 damage for free".

I'm not calling you wrong here, you're probably right but I want to know why.
Re: How to rip off Banjo-Kazooie's Wonderwing from Smash Bros Ultimate?
#8  November 02, 2019, 03:25:50 am
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 Unsafe on block, can be grabbed out of and a fair amount of end lag are not qualities I would call an incontestable move. A competent player would catch onto the move pretty fast if it's being abused and some of the more challenging AI will render it just as situational. There are a lot of specials which grant this kind of benefit and would give the player no real reason to use the move if it didn't have some added bonus that made it better than a generic special. Not to mention its damage in Smash is pretty damn high itself, so, 200 damage doesn't sound unreasonable when put into perspective of those factors.

 What me and Darkflare are saying is that you're overselling Wonderwing. It's a newb buster, but an experience player would play that move like a fiddle.

 It's a bit off topic, but it's a point I wanted to make.

 Now, did that thread I link actually help?
Re: How to rip off Banjo-Kazooie's Wonderwing from Smash Bros Ultimate?
#9  November 08, 2019, 07:19:35 am
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Unsafe on block, can be grabbed out of and a fair amount of end lag are not qualities I would call an incontestable move. A competent player would catch onto the move pretty fast if it's being abused and some of the more challenging AI will render it just as situational. There are a lot of specials which grant this kind of benefit and would give the player no real reason to use the move if it didn't have some added bonus that made it better than a generic special. Not to mention its damage in Smash is pretty damn high itself, so, 200 damage doesn't sound unreasonable when put into perspective of those factors.

 What me and Darkflare are saying is that you're overselling Wonderwing. It's a newb buster, but an experience player would play that move like a fiddle.

 It's a bit off topic, but it's a point I wanted to make.

 Now, did that thread I link actually help?

Yes, it's an excellent thread. Thank you for your help.

Is there a standard for how we should convert moves from Smash Bros percents to Mugen HP?

I had an idea for a way to work that out mathematically. You first choose a percentage as the "kill percent", the percentage where just about anything can kill this character. Let's call it 180%. So if an attack deals 30%, putting you a 6th of the way towards reaching 180%, then a copy of that attack in mugen should deal 30% of 1000.

Also, you're right about Wonderwing sucking. I've beaten enough Banjos to figure out how to beat him now. Do you think ripping off Sonic's sideB from Brawl Minus, the Boost, would be a better special? It's fast but it feels like a waste of a slot since you could make it your run or Midair Glide doubletap instead.
Re: How to rip off Banjo-Kazooie's Wonderwing from Smash Bros Ultimate?
#10  November 08, 2019, 07:52:51 am
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 It's really hard to set a standard off a hybrid FG that defies so many traditional FG elements, so, you will have to use traditional FG elements as a base. Compare to pre-existing FG characters and their moves. We have actual anti-air DPs that can deal as high as 15% damage out of 100% life that has more perks than Wonderwing, so, creating a limited version of those moves definitely would give no incentive of using it at all. I would argue Wonderwing would benefit if it had slightly less start-up while doing 200 damage so there is reason to actual use it as well as reason to respect it in a traditional FG environment.