Are you "missing the point" or what? It's just that people should put into perspective what Mugen code is before they act like they've invented something by reproducing content from 10-year-old video games with a program expressly made to do just that. It really is baffling that there are people who would seek to prevent others from reusing work of this sort that they've done. One would think, without prior knowledge of the Mugen community's bloody history, that this type of reuse would be one of the primary reasons for writing the code, and, for some authors, the only practical reason.
One would think one would bother to look around at other communities akin to this one and notice that those that do have similar standings and do nothing but modify actual files for some dead game or whatever...well, you'd notice that unless they're mega popular, the idea of "what I put labor into is mine don't steal without permission" is not too goddamn uncommon and not nearly as contested as it gets here.Not to mention Dave, as one of the people so much in support of this movement you've yet to do shit with it, despite your boasting of how you would make exact SF2 and SFA3 characters. So hey, all these resources available, why don't you? Hmmm.And keep winane out of this, I'm pretty sure if he wanted to be personally involved in us shouting at each other he could find his own way in just fine.
Kung_Fu_Man said, October 25, 2007, 10:39:46 pmNot to mention Dave, as one of the people so much in support of this movement you've yet to do shit with it, despite your boasting of how you would make exact SF2 and SFA3 characters. So hey, all these resources available, why don't you? Hmmm.Haha, now that's just plain changing the subject. Anyway, that would entail doing a bunch of labor that I don't want to spend my time on. Besides, available resources aren't necessarily useful at all. Far more labor would be spent obtaining the required data from the game. If there existed tools to adequately automate the process, I just might do it!
QuoteFar more labor would be spent obtaining the required data from the game.I was hoping you'd said that. You do realize this, combined with any originality put into the character, is what most creators care about being stolen that just a few miscellaneous states in a cns file.Even if you wing a character, unless you're pulling things out of your ass there's a lot of work involved to do it right, and test, and do again, and test. Not everyone wants that stolen so readily.An artist doesn't worry you'll steal his colors. He worries more about someone stealing whole parts of the painting.
OK, just as long as you don't bring up how many awful characters ignorant thieves make.Kung_Fu_Man said, October 25, 2007, 10:53:56 pmAn artist doesn't worry you'll steal his colors. He worries more about someone stealing whole parts of the painting.I could use a scanner to scan the pages of a book page by page, use OCR software to convert the images to text, repair all the errors, and distribute it as a PDF file with bookmarks. I would have had to apply knowledge of scanners, OCR software, and Adobe Acrobat. This would be very tedious! You would call me an artist and fight for my rights!
While what you described sounds a lot like a character conversion, would you care to tell me if the author of said book would think of your .PDF conversion as fanart?
is it any different if you stole the book to scan it; used someone else's scanner, decided to cut a few chapters and changed a lot of the wording to become propaganda?
the original author did not really had time to read your book, so it is not like he aproves of the changes or something.
No, they would call it piracy!I have nothing more to add besides, do whatever the hell you want with your Mugen characters.
[E]arly Morning Poison said, October 25, 2007, 11:22:29 pmthe original author did not really had time to read your book, so it is not like he aproves of the changes or something.I fail to see the point you are trying to make.In addition, make sense, please.
I think he's suggesting that Mugen characters* are poor, self-satisfying renditions of the originals instead of accurate copies like I was suggesting. Moreover, the source game was stolen to begin with (hello emulator and ROM), and the authors of the actual game (e.g., Darkstalkers) didn't approve anything the Mugen developer did. They just allegedly approved not-for-profit reuse! Even so, they didn't confer any rights of their IP to the Mugen developer, dispite the popular misconception. * EXCEPT DRAGON CLAW BY REU GAAAAAAAAW
DavidGee said, October 25, 2007, 11:03:23 pmI could use a scanner to scan the pages of a book page by page, use OCR software to convert the images to text, repair all the errors, and distribute it as a PDF file with bookmarks. I would have had to apply knowledge of scanners, OCR software, and Adobe Acrobat. This would be very tedious! You would call me an artist and fight for my rights! QOTD material.
Well this has restarted. I have a dead horse somewhere would someone like to beat it for a while?A lot of us don't mind our work being taken. A simple thanks in the credits is often enough to make people happy. Just acknowledgement that you wouldn't have made Y if they hadn't made X first. A nod to the effort put in. No copyright bollocks nothing like that. Just gratitude for the fact that you had FUN playing his piece of work and wanted to attempt to make it better. Or change it in some way.Your work does not need to be locked down in order for someone to appreciate it.The only time i really get ratted is when someone reuploads something but all they've done is put their name in the readme. That should recieve no love ever.
Cyanide said, October 26, 2007, 01:08:52 amI have a dead horse somewhere would someone like to beat it for a while?I think even in the mere year I've been lurking here it's been obliterated into some soil going into some grass roots, some glue stuck on some ancient pre-school project in a attic, and maybe a wig collecting dust in the rubble pile created when they demolished the shop. Seriously, it's been seven years now, and some people (new or not) actually think that they can make people that have been around here nearly as long change their minds on a subject that's been argued about for about six years? We really have no real replacements for most of the good creators of the community, do we.
Hey at least I'm more eloquent now! There could also be newcomers reading. I went to search for the last PDF argument I made, but we can't search the old forum.Anyway, it's been proven that you can do whatever you want with Mugen stuff on this forum. It's also been proven that people give credit where credit is due. (And if somehow they don't, life goes on, preferably unchanged.) Oh, the horror!Claws said, October 26, 2007, 02:02:16 amWe really have no real replacements for most of the good creators of the community, do we.Yeah, I wouldn't make characters that have already been made before if I knew someone would steal my code either. Wait... a more likely deterrent for good newcomers might be the very fact that inane discussion like this thread is so pervasive around here, and there are really no organized efforts to actually do something. EDIT: Plus there's the fact that Mugen is indeed a 7 year old illegal hacked abandonware game engine, and 2D fighting games have been aging the whole time. So you want to program video games? For one thing, it's much easier these days to just make your own closed-source game, and secondly, you can make mods of commercial PC games like Half-Life 2 Source.
Dave, you're officially in love with your own voice. It's not a witty voice, or all that intelligent, but you love it anyway I guess, because love is blind.Or some shit. Whatever, the subject I'm rambling on at the start of this post is surely better than this pointless topic.
What is with the unfounded personal attacks, anyway? Everything I've said is a response to something else and usually makes an important point. What do you want me to do? Let stupid shit like that stand? Moron.EDIT: Oh and I would estimate that you've made roughly 2000 times as many Mugen forum posts as I have. THAT'S A LOT OF POSTS. Next time you're going to make fun of me, at least do something besides project your self-image onto me.
Dave, Dave, Dave, his high postcounts past (over 5,000 here if memory serves) and present don't mean he's in love with his own voice it just shows Ash actually cares about MUGEN, thereby being infinitely more qualified to have anything to say about it than you are, for example.You haven't even done shit with MUGEN. Hah!
Kung_Fu_Man said, October 26, 2007, 04:02:58 amDave, you're officially in love with your own voice. It's not a witty voice, or all that intelligent, but you love it anyway I guess, because love is blind.Or some shit. Whatever, the subject I'm rambling on at the start of this post is surely better than this pointless topic.c'mon man, stop with the useless insult. It just making you look bad. David only saying what he believe, and truthfully he make some good point. For starter, he stated that Mugen interpret the character coding, if Mugen cannot interpret it, then the Character just won't work. For example, if there is no code interpretation for moving forward or backward in Mugen, and we code into the character to move forward and backward. The Mugen program just won't read it. Because a code like that does not exist in the Mugen program. Same thing with ShugenDo, at first the character couldn't even fly in there because a coding like that does not exist in ShugenDo yet. Then the developer program it into the ShugenDo so the character have the capability of flight. Which is pretty cool. Also remember when those ElecByte people claiming that they be coming back and saying that all the character the creator made will be render useless in their brand new Mugen. Since their Mugen won't interpret the coding that the hack Mugen interpret. This is why I believe the coding stuff actually belong to the Mugen program, and we have to learn how to use it. Anyway, I got some of my point across, so I'm just gonna watch how this thing turn out. Edit: Oh shoot, I even forgot to say this too: If anybody think otherwise, please enlighten me.
"stealing" creations (Read 16550 times)
