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Death Battle (And sprite fight animations) (Read 1141722 times)

Started by Long John Killer, April 09, 2015, 03:59:16 am
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Re: Death Battle (And sprite fight animations)
#1941  October 04, 2018, 06:28:24 am
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The original Mario vs. Sonic had power-ups in play though and the animation had them going through them. The end result was that both series power-ups had ways to cancel each other(ex. Fire Flower is useless against Sonic because Flame shield is a thing. Super Sonic doesn't work against Mario because he has his own set of invincibility granting items) so they settled into what they're capable of at their base form deciding that Sonic wins because Mario has no way to beat Sonic's speed. That's why for Luigi vs Tails and DK vs. Knuckles they focused on the unique things the characters had and ignored power-ups.

That said the original match was 7 years ago and both Mario and Sonic has had plenty of games since then and obviously new tools to play with, so it's possible they're bringing back power-ups because there may be something that isn't countered by the other this time.
Re: Death Battle (And sprite fight animations)
#1942  October 04, 2018, 07:55:40 am
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Cappy is probably the biggest one, and since Sonic doesn't wear headgear or know about it it's going to be hard for him to counter it.  I don't believe he has had any significant new things since the last matchup, unless they count Boom Sonic.
Re: Death Battle (And sprite fight animations)
#1943  October 04, 2018, 08:10:49 am
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They probably will considering they used Boom Knuckles' volcano creating feat, despite it only being used in the cartoon's Intro.
Re: Death Battle (And sprite fight animations)
#1944  October 04, 2018, 08:36:31 am
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The thing with Cappy is that he could be considered outside help which is against the rules of DB.

Now, you could make the argument that it wasn't enforced for Future Batman vs Future Spidey, but at the same time, it technically wasn't really outside help for Future Spidey because it was an AI and could be seen more like just another tool and Future Batman didn't REALLY need Original Batman for this matchup as he could have figured it out on his own.
Re: Death Battle (And sprite fight animations)
#1945  October 05, 2018, 12:43:15 am
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Cappy also just became part of Mario's typical every-day attire.  Though it's implied at the end of Odyssey that they part ways and Cappy goes back to his usual ghostly self and I guess Mario's just gonna have to go find a hatter, without a new main title it's viable to just infer that Mario's default hat and Cappy are one and the same until proven otherwise.

The thing I don't recall in Mario games that I likewise don't recall Sonic having a counter to is time manipulation.  Sonic has trouble with Shadow doing it with Chaos Control, and I believe when Metal Sonic does it as well he doesn't have a direct counter other than "Try to not get hit".  A combination of those two new additions to Mario do help quite a bit.

Of course, Cappy could also just be there to prolong Mario's life, there were no defining rules on what can and can not be possessed by Cappy in Odyssey, just so long as it was solid.  I mean, you became a large chunk of roasted meat for one segment.  In fact, I wonder if he can just drop the hat onto the ground and possess the planet?  I don't think there were any size limitations placed.
Re: Death Battle (And sprite fight animations)
#1946  October 11, 2018, 12:56:29 am
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Re: Death Battle (And sprite fight animations)
#1947  October 11, 2018, 01:37:08 am
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Re: Death Battle (And sprite fight animations)
#1948  October 11, 2018, 01:43:09 am
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Hm.  Interesting.  While the Mario preview gave actual hard data, Sonic's only covered basics until it actually was starting to go into his limits.  It feels like they're setting it up to prepare for Sonic's loss?  Which I suppose is what we're meant to expect from this, but still.  I'm not a fan of using Mario sports games for feats, similar to fighting game mini-games, it rarely lines up for all contestants logically for what they should be capable because they're just that, mini-games made for fun over sense, but if they're going to insist on using that Amy thing for quantifying their speed (Despite Amy's, well, slow speed in the games, just matching others that're not Sonic.  Plus Silver being rather slow) then it's whatever I suppose.

I also see they did not use the appropriate title "Sonic Forces his way back into Death Battle", so they get the required 0/10 for this video.

I don't think there were any size limitations placed.
T-Rex has a time limit. When it runs out, Cappy says he couldn't maintain it captured any longer because it was too big.
Ah.  Guess I'd forgotten about that, but you are correct.  Well, I suppose size limitations won't be a problem here anyways, Sonic's not turning huge.  That falls upon the "fans" to envision.
Re: Death Battle (And sprite fight animations)
#1949  October 13, 2018, 11:53:53 pm
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Re: Death Battle (And sprite fight animations)
#1950  October 17, 2018, 09:43:22 pm
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It's out.


Re: Death Battle (And sprite fight animations)
#1951  October 17, 2018, 11:43:57 pm
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Spoiler: This episode (click to see content)

Spoiler: Next episode (click to see content)
Last Edit: October 17, 2018, 11:52:20 pm by Long John Killer
Re: Death Battle (And sprite fight animations)
#1952  October 18, 2018, 06:07:26 am
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Spoiler: This episode (click to see content)

Spoiler: Next episode (click to see content)
Re: Death Battle (And sprite fight animations)
#1953  October 19, 2018, 07:50:06 pm
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I’m glad to see who I was rooting for won. I usually have a love-hate relationship with this show, because sometimes the discrepancies in matchups are too obvious or they come up with some biased mumbo-jumbo that allows a weaker character to win (looking at you, Thor vs Wonder Woman). That being said, Archie Sonic vs Paper Mario is still a cooler matchup.
Re: Death Battle (And sprite fight animations)
#1954  October 21, 2018, 01:02:28 am
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Do we have to keep the next match in spoilers still, or has it been enough time?

Spoiler, click to toggle visibilty
Re: Death Battle (And sprite fight animations)
#1955  October 21, 2018, 01:27:49 am
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It was more of a curtsy for this being the big 100th episode that I figured people wouldn't want anything spoiled, you don't have to keep it hidden who the next set of fighters are.

I'm still on Ultron's side, but playing devil's advocate, what standout weaknesses does he really have?  A hive mind like his is susceptible to your usual "take off the head, the body will die" mentality, but with Ultron that means compromising his actual coding as well, not, like, literally just taking off his head, so just harming the original isn't enough.  I don't believe Sigma has that power within him anyways, so what else does Ultron got against him?  Surely his adamantium body doesn't play by straight DBZ rules, if you don't have a high enough power level you can't do jack squat to him?  I seem to recall that being a problem with Wolverine, that it was a poor idea to have a whole body composed only of adamantium as it would not be able to move, so if this is what his entire exoskeleton is supposedly comprised of he has to have weak spots somewhere.
Re: Death Battle (And sprite fight animations)
#1956  October 21, 2018, 01:49:23 am
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Surely his adamantium body doesn't play by straight DBZ rules, if you don't have a high enough power level you can't do jack squat to him?  I seem to recall that being a problem with Wolverine, that it was a poor idea to have a whole body composed only of adamantium as it would not be able to move, so if this is what his entire exoskeleton is supposedly comprised of he has to have weak spots somewhere.
They've got a very weird explanation for that: the adamantium that comprises Ultron's outer shell is all a single, solid piece of metal, with no joints, no gaps in the armor, nor any weak points at all. He's essentially a statue cast out of adamantium (though with non-adamantium internals). So how does he move? This is where things get bonkers: he manipulates the molecules of his adamantium to reshape it on the fly, using a "molecular rearranger" that is keyed to the specific adamantium signature used in his body (which means that his enemies can't just use a molecular rearranger of their own to remove that armor, they'd need to key into that same signature). It's some very wacky, absolutely nuts comic book science, but that's what they came up with!

That doesn't mean his internals are impervious to damage while his armor is intact, though: it is possible to damage his insides while still not doing much or any damage to his outsides, but the amount of power needed to do that is still pretty immense.

And of course, if his internals do get exposed in some way, he can be taken out much more readily. In fact, that was how Daredevil (with assists from Karnak and Gorgon of the Inhumans) was able to beat him once. Though that was very much a special case: it was an incarnation of Ultron that had been combined with every previous iteration into one mind and body, and was completely bug fuck nuts even for Ultron, to the point where it was tearing its own head off and ripping out its own wires and internals. So much so that it was less "Daredevil winning" and more of a "Daredevil helps Ultron commit suicide by knocking his head off with a big stick, after Ultron left his head hanging by a (non-adamantium) thread". It's a great fucking story, by the way!

But again, the only reason those internals got exposed was because Ultron himself was damaging his own armor, reshaping it as he ripped his guts out. It's not something anyone could do, unless they were a reality warper or something similar.
Re: Death Battle (And sprite fight animations)
#1957  October 21, 2018, 01:59:38 am
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Hm.  I don't know about reality warping, but Sigma can put Ultron into a virtual reality of his own design where he controls what happens.  Perhaps similar enough to deal with getting by Ultron's superior...everything, but that only accounts for the one body, so still not enough.

Also Death Battle history has shown they don't put much faith in reality warping within alternate dimensions anyways.  Looking at you, Ramona.

That is an interesting fact about how he moves though.  That does sound like something Sigma would be able to exploit, essentially his body is restricted by radio waves that an average human could not deal with intercepting, but a machine like Sigma could.  That would require copying Ultron's tech on how he alters his body, but I think Sigma can do that?  The Reploids were based on X, who was based on Mega Man and kept his power copying device.  All Sigma then would need do is to kill one of the lesser Ultron bodies and he'll gain the molecular signature and tech needed to mess with him.  Ultron's hive mind being less Zerg or Borg and more a strict singular consciousness across them all could very much backfire in that case.
Last Edit: October 21, 2018, 02:08:05 am by Long John Killer
Re: Death Battle (And sprite fight animations)
#1958  October 21, 2018, 03:27:42 am
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That is an interesting fact about how he moves though.  That does sound like something Sigma would be able to exploit, essentially his body is restricted by radio waves that an average human could not deal with intercepting, but a machine like Sigma could.
It's not really radio waves, or anything in the realm of real world physics: it's crazy comic book science that more or less is altering reality on a relatively small scale, for one particular material. It's so advanced that I'm not sure Sigma would be able to understand it, much less replicate the technology quickly enough to use as a countermeasure against Ultron. And all that's presuming he'd even be able to get his hands on it!

All Sigma then would need do is to kill one of the lesser Ultron bodies and he'll gain the molecular signature and tech needed to mess with him.  Ultron's hive mind being less Zerg or Borg and more a strict singular consciousness across them all could very much backfire in that case.
Only the central body has the solid adamantium body and molecular rearranger; if Ultron had the resources, he'd make every drone an exact copy of his primary body (presumably with different adamantium signatures, though), but he didn't, and had to settle with downgraded ones. The point of the solid armor and molecular doodad is to give Ultron an essentially indestructible body with no weak points: the drones just have regular armor plates and joints, because there's no point in wasting resources to make the much more easily destroyed drones slightly more durable. So Sigma wouldn't be able to get his hands on that tech by taking down a random drone.

I guess it's theoretically possible for Sigma to use a downed Ultron drone to hack into the Ultron conciousness and extract the relevant data on the molecular tech, but if he's able to overpower all of Ultron's defenses like that, and gain access to all his systems and shit, surely he could just turn off Ultron's whole conciousness? And then that invites the debate of who could hack into who, which doesn't seem like an answerable (or interesting) question.
Re: Death Battle (And sprite fight animations)
#1959  October 21, 2018, 12:07:16 pm
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We are also forgetting one small detail about Sigma: Sigma isn't just the outer shell robot that X fights against all the time.

Sigma is also the virus. And remember how Sigma made X purposely kill Sigma just to spread the Sigma Virus? What if Sigma, in a last ditch effort, makes Ultron kill Sigma, just to spread the Sigma Virus on Ultron and turning him into a Maverick. That way, at least it would be a draw, because Sigma is destroyed, but Sigma's "essence", the Sigma Virus, is inside Ultron, manipulating him to Sigma's advantage and essentially turning him into one of his henchmen, if not even a new Sigma body.
Re: Death Battle (And sprite fight animations)
#1960  October 22, 2018, 12:49:39 am
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Sigma is also the virus. And remember how Sigma made X purposely kill Sigma just to spread the Sigma Virus? What if Sigma, in a last ditch effort, makes Ultron kill Sigma, just to spread the Sigma Virus on Ultron and turning him into a Maverick. That way, at least it would be a draw, because Sigma is destroyed, but Sigma's "essence", the Sigma Virus, is inside Ultron, manipulating him to Sigma's advantage and essentially turning him into one of his henchmen, if not even a new Sigma body.
Ultron is a constantly evolving, super-advanced AI that has assimilated the most advanced tech and knowledge from not only the Marvel universe's Earth (whose tech is in many respects superior to Mega Man's), but also a shit ton of extremely advanced alien civilizations. I really can't imagine the Sigma virus being able to overcome the defenses of almost any of the various incarnations of Ultron. Maybe the very earliest ones, shortly after his creation?

But ultimately this comes back to what I said earlier:
I guess it's theoretically possible for Sigma to use a downed Ultron drone to hack into the Ultron conciousness and extract the relevant data on the molecular tech, but if he's able to overpower all of Ultron's defenses like that, and gain access to all his systems and shit, surely he could just turn off Ultron's whole conciousness? And then that invites the debate of who could hack into who, which doesn't seem like an answerable (or interesting) question.
this discussion isn't really a path that leads anywhere; regular old "who would win in a fight" conversations, there's usually something that can be compared sensibly. And the relative cyber security strengths of two fictional megalomaniacal robots ain't one of them.