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Arthur (Ghosts 'n' Goblins, CvTW Version) (Read 73023 times)

Started by Sean Altly, November 07, 2012, 08:46:28 am
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Arthur (Ghosts 'n' Goblins, CvTW Version)
#1  November 07, 2012, 08:46:28 am
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(scaled in-game to CVS proportions)

So I've decided to use Acey's sprites along with a ton of edits in order to include Arthur in CvTW. His moveset will be completely different from the EoH version, and heavily-inspired-by-but-not-completely-accurate to MVC3 (much like my Haggar). To be up front, I don't have much experience with the G'n'G games, so most of my Arthur knowledge is based on his MVC3 appearance.

Here's some screens, followed by his planned moveset.


Spoiler, click to toggle visibilty

Gameplay

-I'm taking a note from MVC3 and making him a total keepaway/zoning guy. He has no dashes and a relatively short jump. He does have a couple of moves to move him forward, but otherwise, it's more about staying put or retreating while raining projectiles down on your opponent. He has low health and slow walk speed. EX Moves are up in the air depending on whether I try to do his Armor system or not, read the NOTES under the moveset for more details on that.

Unique Tactic

-Dagger Toss - S Button (also in air)
    -Press the button repeatedly to throw up to three in quick succession. The UT bar drains by 1 stock only for the FIRST dagger in a series. Low damage (25 each) but highly spammable.

Command Moves

-Lance Rush - F+HK
    -Arthur scurries forward with his Lance outward. Used to apply pressure and close gaps between his opponent and him.

-Aerial Lance Thrust - F+HK in air
    -Arthur's normal jumping HK is a downward Lance stab, like his S Attack in MVC3. This attack is a straight-forward lance stab that is useful for mid-air combat.

Special Moves

-Crossbow Shot - QCF+LK (also in air)
     -Arthur fires two bolts from his crossbow at a slightly upward angle.

-Lance Toss - QCF+HK (also in air)
     -Classic Lance throw. Can throw two in quick succession by tapping the LK button again.

-Scythe Toss - QCF+LP (also in air)
     -Throws a short scythe forward, which flies back to Arthur hitting the opponent a second time.

-Axe Toss - QCF+HP (also in air)
     -Throws an axe. Only one can be thrown but has a huge hit radius.

-Fire Bottle Toss - QCB+P (also in air)
     -Throws a fire-bottle out at an arch. When it lands it creates a small wave of flames on the ground. HP version has a high arch and hangtime, but creates longer wave of flames. LP version throws farther at shorter arch, but only creates a small wave of flames.

-Shield Counter - QCB+K
     -Arthur blocks an incoming attack with his shield, and counters with a strong sword slash. LK counters low attacks, HK counters high/air attacks.

-Golden Slash - DP+P
     -A strong sword slash with a large hit radius.

Super Moves

Level 1 - Goddess Bracelet - QCF+S
     -Arthur uses a magical bracelet to fire a continuous stream of fireballs at his opponent. Can jump up and down during the move to counter jumping opponents, like in MVC3.

Level 1 - Golden Armor - QCB+S
     -Arthur dons his Gold Armor, which enhances the properties and damage of all his projectiles. Lasts about 20 seconds (going by my MVC3 Vanilla guide).

Level 3 - For the Princess! - DP+S
     -Arthur uses magic to create screen-filling explosions and a huge dragon to damage his opponent.

NOTES (Please READ before suggesting things):

Due to sprite limitations, I probably won't be incorporating his armor system into gameplay. I know it's a signature Arthur thing, but it's just not practical for me right now. I may be able to use Remappal to change his palette to a gold armor palette, and then have his attacks be enhanced during this, but he wouldn't break down to his undies afterwards like in MVC3, so it may end up unbalanced and thus not worth including. I could incorporate his armor stuff into win poses and intros, as well. I could also use one of Acey/Sludge's Supers for his other Level 1. They had a generic auto-combo (which I won't use), but also a move where Arthur rode back and forth on a horse (is this accurate to the character?) and another where he got some upgraded armor but then did a Skullo-Energy/Kikousho type move, which always seemed off to me (but could be totally accurate since I have little experience with the G'n'G games).
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Last Edit: November 17, 2012, 08:39:40 am by Sean Altly
Re: Arthur (Ghosts 'n' Goblins, CvTW Version)
#2  November 07, 2012, 08:57:31 am
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I did not see this coming! (or I did, but not now lol)... Nice!, Looking forward to see Arthur in CVS Style! Good luck Sean ;)
Jupp. That's cool alright.
Last Edit: November 07, 2012, 09:01:03 am by Mr.Snitch

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Re: Arthur (Ghosts 'n' Goblins, CvTW Version)
#3  November 07, 2012, 09:13:14 am
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NOTES (Please READ before suggesting things):

Due to sprite limitations, I probably won't be incorporating his armor system into gameplay. I know it's a signature Arthur thing, but it's just not practical for me right now. I may be able to use Remappal to change his palette to a gold armor palette, and then have his attacks be enhanced during this, but he wouldn't break down to his undies afterwards like in MVC3, so it may end up unbalanced and thus not worth including. I could incorporate his armor stuff into win poses and intros, as well. I could also use one of Acey/Sludge's Supers for his other Level 1. They had a generic auto-combo (which I won't use), but also a move where Arthur rode back and forth on a horse (is this accurate to the character?) and another where he got some upgraded armor but then did a Skullo-Energy/Kikousho type move, which always seemed off to me (but could be totally accurate since I have little experience with the G'n'G games).

Why would that be unbalanced? His Golden Armor super? Just because he won't get weakened/break down into his underwear after it's time is up shouldn't stop you from adding it imo. Just balance it out to commendate for a MUGEN perspective...

-Cut the amount of time it lasts down compared to MVC3
-Don't buff his atk/potential as much as it gets buffed in MVC3

The breaking down into his undies aspect is nice, but isn't nessecary at all. The Golden Armor super is accurate/practical to the gaming source though. Riding a horse? Not accurate to any of his GnG games whatsoever, but is practical with him being a Knight and all. The armor energy bubble thing? I don't remember him ever having any type of shield/technique like that in GnG, so I'd say no, it's not accurate. Though still practical/befitting of Arthur some what. Much more so then the horse thing. If it were me, I'd just stick with the Golden Armor super, balancing it for MUGEN standards. The underwear thing isn't even an issue imo, I wouldn't even concern myself with that. Anyone wants to complain about it, let them. Just do what you do.

Last Edit: November 07, 2012, 09:16:17 am by DivineWolf
Re: Arthur (Ghosts 'n' Goblins, CvTW Version)
#4  November 07, 2012, 03:05:05 pm
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Let's start from the beginning:

Quote
To be up front, I don't have much experience with the G'n'G games, so most of my Arthur knowledge is based on his MVC3 appearance.

Believe me, his UMvC3 appearance covers absolutely everything he does in the games.

Quote
but also a move where Arthur rode back and forth on a horse (is this accurate to the character?)

He rides the horse on the intro of Ghouls N' Ghosts.

Quote
and another where he got some upgraded armor but then did a Skullo-Energy/Kikousho type move, which always seemed off to me (but could be totally accurate since I have little experience with the G'n'G games).

From Ghouls N' Ghosts onwards, he gained the ability to do a Item Crash whenever he equipped the Golden Armor, by holding down the attack button.

Since you don't have experience with the games, I believe some videos could help:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uIhyjrXVhzg

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-ta6YDWDPjc

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8QvOt_07p-o
Re: Arthur (Ghosts 'n' Goblins, CvTW Version)
#5  November 07, 2012, 04:57:52 pm
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Well a long time ago on a dreamcast far far away, Arthur made an appearence in a game called Cannon Spike.
This game was a top down shooter, and he had a fairly new and awesome design. I came up with an idea for a hyper after playing this game long ago so maybe you could use it:



Basically he transforms and shoots a huge beam out of his lance.

Last Edit: November 07, 2012, 05:06:13 pm by Koju-kun
Re: Arthur (Ghosts 'n' Goblins, CvTW Version)
#6  November 07, 2012, 06:51:18 pm
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@DivineWolf

Well, I just assumed they had the undies portion of that move as a balance measure, so I assumed without it, it might be unbalanced. I guess I can still do something like that.

@Magma Dragoon Mk II

That's actually really helpful. When you say "Item Crash," is that the thing he's doing in the second video where he holds his fist up and lightning comes down and out aroung him? If so, I guess that move that Acey made wasn't all that inaccurate after all. I would still make it look more like it does in the game, using lightning bolts instead of a bubble, but still, that's right there in the game and would be very easy to do.

@Koju-kun

Whoa, that's really cool. I think I'll use those, but not for the beam, I'll use them to make the above super. Thanks!
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Re: Arthur (Ghosts 'n' Goblins, CvTW Version)
#7  November 07, 2012, 06:55:07 pm
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If you want to incorporate helpers IMO it would be fun...kinda like with Jill in MvC2.

GnG is a game of many creatures...Zombies, Gargoyles, Man Eating Plants, Ball and chain wielding Cyclops, etc.

There's even a wizard that turns you into different things...a frog, a baby, or a skeleton.
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Re: Arthur (Ghosts 'n' Goblins, CvTW Version)
#8  November 07, 2012, 07:12:30 pm
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arthur's armor breaking could be implemented as his ko animation if anything, absolutely not worth an entire spriteset

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Re: Arthur (Ghosts 'n' Goblins, CvTW Version)
#9  November 07, 2012, 07:21:22 pm
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Well, I just assumed they had the undies portion of that move as a balance measure, so I assumed without it, it might be unbalanced. I guess I can still do something like that.

I'm not certain, though Arthur may get a bit weaker defensively after performing said super. The undies thing is purely cosmetic in terms of MVC3. When Arthur takes a hit in GnG, with armor, he loses his armor and is just left in his undies. Get hit with no armor, and you die. It's not really nessecary at all, just a homage to the original game Capcom threw in there. Compensating for this in a different manner should be fine imo.

@Magma Dragoon Mk II

That's actually really helpful. When you say "Item Crash," is that the thing he's doing in the second video where he holds his fist up and lightning comes down and out aroung him? If so, I guess that move that Acey made wasn't all that inaccurate after all. I would still make it look more like it does in the game, using lightning bolts instead of a bubble, but still, that's right there in the game and would be very easy to do.

If the Item Crash ability is anything like Richter's ability from Rondo of Blood, the the ability itself depends on which weapon Arthur currently has. The energy shield may have very well been a Item Crash ability, perhaps when he uses it equipped with the Holy Flame(Torch). I'm not certain though... Your best bet would be to look up a showcase of his Item Crash ability. If it is dependant on what weapon he has equipped, you could just pick the one you like the best.



If you want to incorporate helpers IMO it would be fun...kinda like with Jill in MvC2.

GnG is a game of many creatures...Zombies, Gargoyles, Man Eating Plants, Ball and chain wielding Cyclops, etc.

There's even a wizard that turns you into different things...a frog, a baby, or a skeleton.

This doesn't suit Arthur at all. It didn't suit Jill or make any kind of sense either for her to summon summon zombies/dogs/ravens/Tyrant as helpers. I personally feel Capcom copped out on what Jill should have been like. Does she play nice? Yes. But does it actually suit her? No. They did really well with Chris though in MVC3. Helpers in that regard suit Firebrand, but not Arthur. Arthur has a arsenal of weapons at his disposal. Which suit his character spot on. I'm not knocking your suggestion, just giving my opinion on it. This is the equivalent of Mario summoning Goombas/Koopa Troopers to assist him. Or Sonic summoning Robotnik's various Badnik robots. While it could work, as it did with Jill, it's quite a ass-backwards concept. Fighting game or not, doesn't really excuse what they did with Jill imo.
Last Edit: November 07, 2012, 07:24:28 pm by DivineWolf
Re: Arthur (Ghosts 'n' Goblins, CvTW Version)
#10  November 07, 2012, 07:24:28 pm
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No its cool...you have a valid point there.
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Re: Arthur (Ghosts 'n' Goblins, CvTW Version)
#11  November 07, 2012, 07:32:24 pm
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It didn't suit Jill or make any kind of sense either for her to summon summon zombies/dogs/ravens/Tyrant as helpers.
She wasn't summoning them, they were attacking her and she was dodging them. It's a very big difference, and it makes perfect sense. Whatshisface the journalist from that other zombie game who covered wars did the same thing in MvC3 (not Chris).
On paper I see nothing fundamentally wrong with using the same thing with Arthur, but it would require some mise en scène.
If I struggled to the end of my determination, to the end of my way of life with my followers, if the result is ruin, then this ruin is inevitable. Grieve. Shed tears. But you cannot regret.
Last Edit: November 07, 2012, 07:37:35 pm by DKDC

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Re: Arthur (Ghosts 'n' Goblins, CvTW Version)
#12  November 07, 2012, 07:37:53 pm
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She wasn't summoning them, they were attacking her and she was dodging them. It's a very big difference, and it makes perfect sense. Whatshisface the journalist from that other zombie game who covered wars did the same thing in MvC3 (not Chris).

Can they really harm/hinder her? No, they can't. So saying she's "dodging" them is not valid at all. Frank West can actually be hindered by his zombie helpers. This would have at least been a bit more practical for Jill. However, in Dead Rising, Frank does those things in game to a degree. Once again, this is practical for Frank West. Jill didn't even have a dodge function in RE1. It doesn't make sense at all.
Re: Arthur (Ghosts 'n' Goblins, CvTW Version)
#13  November 07, 2012, 07:38:44 pm
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@Divine Wolf

No, in MVC3 when you lose the armor you take a bunch of extra damage, so it's not just cosmetic. You have to use another Super to upgrade back to Regular Armor just to keep from taking so much damage. The thing is, the Armor in MVC3 was primarily used to massively buff his assists anyway. I'm still considering the armor thing, having it work similarly to MVC3 (all of his specials would get better/new properties), but when times runs out on it he could just get knocked back and be vulnerable for a bit afterwards. Also, I agree with Byakko on Jill, I thought it made sense, well, as much sense as anything in a fighting game does. It was like they were always after her and she was dodging them. I like that Jill a million times more than flippy-floppy Jill from MVC3.

Edit: No, she didn't have a dodge function, but the ammo was scarce enough that you spent most of the game avoiding things rather than fighting them. It made sense to me. What would you have rather had? Her just using a bunch of guns?
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Re: Arthur (Ghosts 'n' Goblins, CvTW Version)
#14  November 07, 2012, 07:40:11 pm
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Can they really harm/hinder her? No, they can't. So saying she's "dodging" them is not valid at all. Frank West can actually be hindered by his zombie helpers. This would have at least been a bit more practical for Jill. However, in Dead Rising, Frank does those things in game to a degree. Once again, this is practical for Frank West. Jill didn't even have a dodge function in RE1. It doesn't make sense at all.
You are being WAY too anal retentive.
If I struggled to the end of my determination, to the end of my way of life with my followers, if the result is ruin, then this ruin is inevitable. Grieve. Shed tears. But you cannot regret.
Re: Arthur (Ghosts 'n' Goblins, CvTW Version)
#15  November 07, 2012, 07:41:43 pm
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Also wanted to note I don't plan on using creature helpers for Arthur, because Jill will have these and Arthur already has a ton of projectile options to keep his opponent away from him. It was a good suggestion though.
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Re: Arthur (Ghosts 'n' Goblins, CvTW Version)
#16  November 07, 2012, 07:43:16 pm
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If you're missing a Lv1 super it could always involve some zombies and random GnG creatures. But then that might become more work with the only purpose of showing off.
If I struggled to the end of my determination, to the end of my way of life with my followers, if the result is ruin, then this ruin is inevitable. Grieve. Shed tears. But you cannot regret.

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Re: Arthur (Ghosts 'n' Goblins, CvTW Version)
#17  November 07, 2012, 07:44:25 pm
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Ah, I figured he did get weakened defensively. Well, w/e you decide is cool. And I'm not saying that Jill didn't play well in MVC2, I just feel personally it didn't suit her. Being proficient in weapons like Chris is in MVC3, that was what I was expecting when I first heard Jill would be in MVC2. Also, yeah, I'm not fond of MVC3 Jill myself lol. Not saying she's better than the MVC2 incarnate.

     Posted: November 07, 2012, 07:45:48 pm
You are being WAY too anal retentive.

Nope, just voicing my opinion on the matter sir. You have yours, and I have mines.

Re: Arthur (Ghosts 'n' Goblins, CvTW Version)
#18  November 08, 2012, 02:32:38 pm
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@Magma Dragoon Mk II

That's actually really helpful. When you say "Item Crash," is that the thing he's doing in the second video where he holds his fist up and lightning comes down and out aroung him? If so, I guess that move that Acey made wasn't all that inaccurate after all. I would still make it look more like it does in the game, using lightning bolts instead of a bubble, but still, that's right there in the game and would be very easy to do.

If the Item Crash ability is anything like Richter's ability from Rondo of Blood, the the ability itself depends on which weapon Arthur currently has. The energy shield may have very well been a Item Crash ability, perhaps when he uses it equipped with the Holy Flame(Torch). I'm not certain though... Your best bet would be to look up a showcase of his Item Crash ability. If it is dependant on what weapon he has equipped, you could just pick the one you like the best.

This. The difference is that Richter doesn't need to charge and using his ability drains his heart gauge. Arthur can use it as long as he keeps the golden armor equipped. And yes, it varies depending on the weapon you're using.

Found a video showing them (unfortunately I couldn't find any decent video of the PSP version):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Shx-e55wGo
Last Edit: November 08, 2012, 02:49:17 pm by Magma Dragoon MK II
Re: Arthur (Ghosts 'n' Goblins, CvTW Version)
#19  November 08, 2012, 02:51:01 pm
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Hopefully the lack of mobility doesn't make him an easy kill against Mr. X, because if he can't get away he'll be a fairly difficult opponent. You could probably balance this easily if you gave him some moves that break armor a bit easier than the other characters.
Last Edit: November 08, 2012, 02:55:00 pm by C-G-U
Re: Arthur (Ghosts 'n' Goblins, CvTW Version)
#20  November 08, 2012, 03:08:22 pm
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He can spam the Dagger Toss 3 times in a row to break the super armor, but that's going to eat the UT bar fast. Lance Toss can be doubled, but that's not enough unless in a combo. It will probably need a big pushback. The Fire Bottle Toss could have the fire deal three hits quickly with a decent hitstun overall (counting all hits together).
If I struggled to the end of my determination, to the end of my way of life with my followers, if the result is ruin, then this ruin is inevitable. Grieve. Shed tears. But you cannot regret.