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Unique Tactic - Ideas and Suggestions (Updated 7/13 with NEW INFO) (Read 64991 times)

Started by Sean Altly, September 29, 2011, 10:44:11 pm
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Re: Unique Tactic - Ideas and Suggestions
#21  June 21, 2012, 02:11:48 am
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Ha, I got 2 of my suggestions. I forgot I even suggested anything in this topic. It looks good to me, except of course for the blank ones but I'm sure you've got those covered.
Re: Unique Tactic - Ideas and Suggestions
#22  June 22, 2012, 08:16:48 am
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since I'm coding Morrigan for Sean I need ideas for her Unique Tactic..so far Sean has stated that Jedah would have limited flight capabilites...

should Morrigan just have the same as Jedah since she can fly too? or give her something new? lemme get some ideas outta yer brains..no bath salts necessary..lol

Re: Unique Tactic - Ideas and Suggestions
#23  June 22, 2012, 02:06:20 pm
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I did suggest the fly dash when I first suggested a UT, but if you can code her a more limited and better balanced Dark Force that would be better than flight.
Re: Unique Tactic - Ideas and Suggestions
#24  June 22, 2012, 06:23:22 pm
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well I thought of a few suggestions..

1) Seductive Kiss- she blows a kiss at the enemy and if successfully done it will either 1)stun the enemy or 2) cause them to go into a temporary trance and walk towards her with hearts floating above her head for about 1-2 seconds. she has to act fast though cuz the effects are very temporary and it uses up power so you'd have to be quick about it.

2)Soul Jump-aka superjump which is higher than CvS super jump but not as high as the MvC version of superjump. she launches herself straight in the air and is controllable after she jumps up. meaning if you hold right while she superjumps she'll launch herself forward and back for backwards..if neutral she'll just jump straight up. this would cost a bit of power too but not much

3)Soul Barrier- Morrigan uses an aura shield to absorb power at the cost of half damage meaning whatever they throw at you is absorbed but you take a smal amount of damage..this would cost no power but would have a so/so startup time so you have to time it right for all attacks. this would be best for those spamming hadoukens and such. you take half damage but gain some good power by it. think Rugal's shield move that reflects projectile.It would not reflect attacks though. it'd be a good use towards gaining power but at a small cost.

4)Soul Drill- Morrigan charges up an attack that makes her arm a drill...depending on the length of time you charged the attack the more hits it does. that or I might have it like Berserker Barrage where if you mash the UT button it does more hits.id yet.

what do you guys think?
Re: Unique Tactic - Ideas and Suggestions
#25  June 22, 2012, 10:50:48 pm
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i dunno much but ill try
Theres the ability to be untouchable for a small amount of time,to fly,to replenish your Ki a.k.a. Chi,to absorb a hit,which will give the character chi,the ability to jump and hold on to the wall,the end of the screen that is,to replenish your health(Elena from SF3 could do that),To make a copy of yourself which will aid you in battle for a short amount of time,MvC jump(press down,then up,and the jump then goes higher),to regain something during the taunt,to become invisible(Like Reptile from MK),to use Excel,like in Street Fighter EX,that makes you faster,and also 60% more chance to chain a combo
Hope any of this helped
Re: Unique Tactic - Ideas and Suggestions
#26  June 23, 2012, 10:00:38 am
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Just go with Cazaki's suggestion.
Re: Unique Tactic - Ideas and Suggestions
#27  June 23, 2012, 10:04:40 am
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the problem with that is it's already done instead of a run/dash as state 100..I have her able to adjust her angle of ascent while front dashing and I'm working on some custom sprites so she can actually do the same backwards too like POTS Morrigan
Re: Unique Tactic - Ideas and Suggestions
#28  July 13, 2012, 09:48:10 am
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So, as I mentioned earlier, I will be implementing a bar that limits how frequently you can use your Unique Tactic. It will operate on a level system, as in, different characters' UT's will be different "levels," which determines how much of the bar it uses.

-The bar is separated into 8 increments
-Level 1 Unique tactics deplete One segment of the bar
-Level 2 Unique Tactics deplete Two segments of the bar
-Level 3 Unique Tactics deplete Four segments of the bar, or half of the total bar
-The more powerful/useful a Unique Tactic is, the higher level it is. for example, CM Punk's Evasive Roll would be a Level 1 Unique Tactic. Chun-Li's Focus Attack would be a Level 2 Unique Tactic. Haggar's Lariat, rather than deplete life like in the Public release version, would instead be a Level 3 Unique Tactic, and would have complete invincibility.
-The bar refills slowly over time

Now, let's discuss what levels you think each Unique Tactic should be. Refer to the first post for a list of finalized Unique Tactics. What do you think?
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Re: Unique Tactic - Ideas and Suggestions (Updated 7/13 with NEW INFO)
#29  July 13, 2012, 10:54:47 am
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Since I won't be adding her drill hyper I decided on going with something simple. She can fly a short distance and do her drill attack while in this state which would cancel the dash state out. She doesn't do much damage here but it is a good combo starter. It's easy..you press the direction you wanna go( depending on which way yer facing) and use UT. During her short flight you can press UT again for a drill attack that can hit up to 3 or 5 times. The attack power is weak but it's meant as an aerial move you can combo into.
Re: Unique Tactic - Ideas and Suggestions (Updated 7/13 with NEW INFO)
#30  July 13, 2012, 02:41:55 pm
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Comboing with a move that doesn't do much damage seems very counter productive when you keep damage scaling in mind.  It's the reason you never see anyone incorporate light attacks into air combos in MVC3 and Melty Blood.
Re: Unique Tactic - Ideas and Suggestions (Updated 7/13 with NEW INFO)
#31  July 13, 2012, 09:00:42 pm
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Hey Garret could use one his attacks as a UT I saw the manual in SHADES 2 about move of Garret involving his partner the partner can sneak up from behind Garret can take the advantage.
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Re: Unique Tactic - Ideas and Suggestions (Updated 7/13 with NEW INFO)
#32  July 13, 2012, 09:01:45 pm
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Also I think Punk's roll should be free.  He would be seriously crippled without it.
Re: Unique Tactic - Ideas and Suggestions (Updated 7/13 with NEW INFO)
#33  July 13, 2012, 09:06:09 pm
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It being free would defeat the point of the bar though.
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Re: Unique Tactic - Ideas and Suggestions (Updated 7/13 with NEW INFO)
#34  July 13, 2012, 09:20:55 pm
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You could make it a command move and give him a new one, something that would make better use of the meter.  I honestly can't think of any variation for the multiple levels of a roll other than distance and invulnerability time.
Re: Unique Tactic - Ideas and Suggestions (Updated 7/13 with NEW INFO)
#35  July 13, 2012, 09:33:12 pm
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I think youre misunderstanding; the roll itself wont have levels. The levels just refer to how much meter each individual unique tactic takes and practicality.

For each character.
Re: Unique Tactic - Ideas and Suggestions (Updated 7/13 with NEW INFO)
#36  July 13, 2012, 09:36:48 pm
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Yeah, each character won't have different levels of Unique Tactic, they're Unique tactic is classified by level. Punk's is a Level 1, so it only uses 1 bar. That means he can do 8 of them back to back, plus the meter refills over time.
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Re: Unique Tactic - Ideas and Suggestions (Updated 7/13 with NEW INFO)
#37  July 13, 2012, 10:14:02 pm
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So, as I mentioned earlier, I will be implementing a bar that limits how frequently you can use your Unique Tactic. It will operate on a level system, as in, different characters' UT's will be different "levels," which determines how much of the bar it uses.

-The bar is separated into 8 increments
-Level 1 Unique tactics deplete One segment of the bar
-Level 2 Unique Tactics deplete Two segments of the bar
-Level 3 Unique Tactics deplete Four segments of the bar, or half of the total bar
-The more powerful/useful a Unique Tactic is, the higher level it is. for example, CM Punk's Evasive Roll would be a Level 1 Unique Tactic. Chun-Li's Focus Attack would be a Level 2 Unique Tactic. Haggar's Lariat, rather than deplete life like in the Public release version, would instead be a Level 3 Unique Tactic, and would have complete invincibility.
-The bar refills slowly over time

Now, let's discuss what levels you think each Unique Tactic should be. Refer to the first post for a list of finalized Unique Tactics. What do you think?

This is a pretty decent idea to expand upon the UT system, I can dig it for now, and sure I'll give you some opinions on the levels of the UTs.

Also I think Punk's roll should be free.  He would be seriously crippled without it.

Not even close. Punk's roll is part of what makes him so OP now (That and his counter that doesn't have conventional drawbacks.). Punk is getting redone anyway, well if Sean hasn't changed his mind.
Re: Unique Tactic - Ideas and Suggestions (Updated 7/13 with NEW INFO)
#38  July 13, 2012, 10:32:46 pm
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We talked about his counter already.

As far as his counter goes, Geese's counters come out instantly (at least on PotS' and Warusaki's versions), and on Warusaki's CVS Karin, they come out in 3 ticks (just like Punk's). The window is 20 ticks (Geese's is 14 and Karin's is 20). So as far as how they work, I think it's fine. If anything, I'll add a "missed grab" anim like Geese has, so that you know he can be attacked.

Functionally, it's the same as any other counter special. All I'm doing is changing the animation so that the recovery is more obvious. The AI just abuses it badly. Anyone with a counter special like that could have AI programmed to abuse it. I know your response to this was "Regardless of how other creators do it i still think the counter is too quick," but why should I ignore how they do it when they're regarded as great creators who are fairly accurate to source?

EDIT: Just downloaded Vans' Geese. Vans is considered crazy accurate. His Geese's counters have instant start-up and an 18 frame window. The command is a HCB command, but that would only hinder human players, not the AI.
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Last Edit: July 13, 2012, 10:37:25 pm by Sean Altly
Re: Unique Tactic - Ideas and Suggestions (Updated 7/13 with NEW INFO)
#39  July 13, 2012, 10:35:21 pm
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Lol Punk OP, let's see....he has no long range options and limited pokes, so he gets destroyed by zoners and keepaway.  And his counter isn't that bad at all, albeit it is a little safe/hard to punish.  You can always just sweep him if he goes high, or just throw him if he does it randomly.  His hypers are also all situational.  You really are starting to sound like one of those guys who gets beat by a character on PSN/XBL and then goes on SRK to complain about how broken they supposedly are.
Re: Unique Tactic - Ideas and Suggestions (Updated 7/13 with NEW INFO)
#40  July 13, 2012, 10:39:59 pm
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I'm actually not complaining about it, I know we already talked about the counter and I've opted to simply remove it from Punk's AI. I'm saying that his roll being limited doesn't cripple him at all whatsoever. I think my hang up is how counters have been handled in AE make the CvS counters seem a bit too forgiving.

EDIT for response: The only zoners/keepaway characters that can keep him away successfully aren't even CvS style of characters, for the most part. He has a command dash made specifically to get in, and it's completely safe if you use it right. If you're fighting the AI the AI can read which counter to use so punishing him is out of the question for the most part. His main level 1 hyper can be hit confirmed from anything but his dropkick so I don't see your point about situational hypers. If your close to Punk you will get command grab hyper'd and most characters in MUGEN don't have Capcom style anti-grapple tactics, plus it's pretty hard to hit him out of his level 3. He doesn't need the roll, the roll is an unneccessary move to fight against characters that he doesn't even struggle to fight.
Last Edit: July 13, 2012, 10:53:33 pm by Cazaki