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General Sonic The Hedgehog franchise discussion  (Read 91876 times)

Started by Hyogo, February 25, 2013, 03:24:51 am
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"Bad News" Hoffmann

Re: General Sonic The Hedgehog franchise discussion
#201  July 23, 2016, 10:23:12 am
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Sonic Mania is most likely nothing more than a romhack of Sonic 1-3 lol.

rednavi -RETIRED

Re: General Sonic The Hedgehog franchise discussion
#202  July 23, 2016, 01:00:51 pm
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Do you guys even know who Christian Whitehead and the people who work with him are? They're pretty much the people behind the best sonic fangames we had in the last 5 years, the ones who actually understand what made the original games great in terms of level design.

Not many companies are willing to take the risk SEGA is taking right now. How many times have any of you ever said "Man, this fangame/fan translation/fan overhaul is great, X company should hire them and actually release an official game with these guys!"? This is exactly what is happening here and I don't understand all this negativity towards the idea, which looks pretty promising all things considered.



TrinitroRoy said, July 23, 2016, 10:06:58 am
Spoiler, click to toggle visibilty

Spoiler, click to toggle visibilty
Last Edit: July 23, 2016, 01:04:10 pm by A generous backer(s)

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Re: General Sonic The Hedgehog franchise discussion
#203  July 23, 2016, 02:41:51 pm
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A generous backer(s) said, July 23, 2016, 01:00:51 pm
Do you guys even know who Christian Whitehead and the people who work with him are? They're pretty much the people behind the best sonic fangames we had in the last 5 years, the ones who actually understand what made the original games great in terms of level design.

Not many companies are willing to take the risk SEGA is taking right now. How many times have any of you ever said "Man, this fangame/fan translation/fan overhaul is great, X company should hire them and actually release an official game with these guys!"? This is exactly what is happening here and I don't understand all this negativity towards the idea, which looks pretty promising all things considered.

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NiB2fA6F1iI&feature=youtu.be[/youtube]

TrinitroRoy said, July 23, 2016, 10:06:58 am
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Spoiler, click to toggle visibilty
People don't do their research. I'm really not shocked.

Sonic Mania will NO DOUBT have accurate physics, in fact the impressions I've been reading from those who have played it say it does! It's not surprising, Christian Whitehead (I'll call him Taxman for short, that's his handle) actually made the engine from scratch IIRC for Sonic 1 and 2, and they are the BEST ports of those games period. Legitimately definitive versions of Sonic 1 and 2 are on phones because of him and Stealth.

But are there truly grown men in this world?!

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Re: General Sonic The Hedgehog franchise discussion
#204  July 23, 2016, 03:09:56 pm
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So glad to see the old Sonic we all know and love after the Boom and Lost World that I thought this was going to end to our beloved blue ball.
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Speedpreacher

Re: General Sonic The Hedgehog franchise discussion
#205  July 23, 2016, 04:55:08 pm
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A generous backer(s) said, July 23, 2016, 01:00:51 pm
Do you guys even know who Christian Whitehead and the people who work with him are?

Yes, I know what the Retro engine is.

I stand by my original statement, unless this has built in level maker tools or unless they cash in on the gimmick that they got CS3 back together for one game only this really doesn't interest me beyond ten bucks and my innate compulsion to own and play every Sonic game.
Nevermind, there's nothing I can do
Bet your life there's something killing you
It's a shame we have to die, my dear
No one's getting out of here alive
This time
What a way to go, but have no fear
No one's getting out of here alive
This time
It's a shame we have to disappear
No one's getting out of here alive
This time, this time, this time

-Greed-

Re: General Sonic The Hedgehog franchise discussion
#206  July 23, 2016, 05:05:18 pm
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Hey as long as Sonic games are coming out I won't feel dirty buying, I'm game.
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rednavi -RETIRED

Re: General Sonic The Hedgehog franchise discussion
#207  July 23, 2016, 05:13:29 pm
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Speedpreacher

Re: General Sonic The Hedgehog franchise discussion
#208  July 23, 2016, 05:21:41 pm
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Oh there you go! We're in the All-Stars LE/Galaxy 2 year, that explains it.
Nevermind, there's nothing I can do
Bet your life there's something killing you
It's a shame we have to die, my dear
No one's getting out of here alive
This time
What a way to go, but have no fear
No one's getting out of here alive
This time
It's a shame we have to disappear
No one's getting out of here alive
This time, this time, this time

R565

Re: General Sonic The Hedgehog franchise discussion
#209  July 24, 2016, 02:58:31 am
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Man this has everything going for it. Music, Graphics, Gameplay, and the fact that a team of great people are working on this... My nostalgia boner won't go down for a while... I got to get this game when it comes out. It's also a shame that people are ragging on this, it shows how much the fanbase is really cracked and split on a lot of things. Then again, the fanbase is full of nasty things. SEGA really is putting faith into these guys, faith that can't be squandered because Sonic really has fallen into a joke of what he once was...

Kamekaze

Re: General Sonic The Hedgehog franchise discussion
#210  July 24, 2016, 03:24:02 am
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why are you so deadset on this level editor thing? If you want it so bad just mod sonic games like they had to and maybe sega will hire you one day as well!
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Re: General Sonic The Hedgehog franchise discussion
#211  July 24, 2016, 03:54:12 am
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What gave you the impression I'm deadset on anything? I just don't really care about that much about an officially licensed retro graphical nostalgia ANYTHING game unless there's some sort of component that can get community content in there and keep things interesting. I bled that blood out with Megaman 10.

I own all those Genesis Sonic games, man. Every single one. I own them five times over. Anytime I want to play them again I play them. If you tell me the people that made those games are gonna do another one in that style that maybe gets me a little curious. You tell me you're gonna set up tools for every Sonic fan, casual and hardcore, young or old to easily make their own levels with the right physics and tilesets and all that jazz then I'm fully interested. Otherwise I'll buy this cheap, play it to completion and leave it alone. Nothing wrong with being excited about it, this is a franchise where you've got to hang on to every ray of sunshine that breaks through.

That's just not me.
Nevermind, there's nothing I can do
Bet your life there's something killing you
It's a shame we have to die, my dear
No one's getting out of here alive
This time
What a way to go, but have no fear
No one's getting out of here alive
This time
It's a shame we have to disappear
No one's getting out of here alive
This time, this time, this time

rednavi -RETIRED

Re: General Sonic The Hedgehog franchise discussion
#212  July 24, 2016, 08:27:18 am
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Re: General Sonic The Hedgehog franchise discussion
#213  July 24, 2016, 06:00:18 pm
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Man, Green Hill certainly looks different past the first two checkpoints! Seems they've expanded the level height quite a bit. If they do this with all the other old levels that'd be pretty cool, it seems that it'll be what happens. I'm of the impression that if that's what they mean by reimagining old levels then they're essentially new levels, even with the old themes attached.

Miniboss seems kind of annoying though, there's no way to tell when he switches phases. Guess you just have to time it/run on intuition for now, but I'm sure they'll add a visual/audio tell.

Also I don't have any faith in the whole "Sonic Maker" idea because if the Mario Maker community can't usually nail down good Mario level design I really don't have the most confidence in the idea of the general (not dedicated) public being able to handle Sonic design, of all things. That and I don't think Sonic works in the sort of bite-sized confinements Mario has in terms of level design or general stuff really. Sonic levels I think would take a lot more time to push out, especially good quality ones, because the entire point of Sonic level design is multiple routes, being REALLY big yet fast to traverse, and also having a lot of precise momentum building areas and speed sections amidst enemy placement that has to be on-point or else the flow gets SIGNIFICANTLY worse. A mediocre Sonic level stings far more than a mediocre Mario level from my experience because the flow matters so much more in Sonic because the base gameplay is "momentum." That and I'd rather not pay 60-70 dollars for a Sonic Maker. I'm sure dedicated members could make good content but the amount of time it takes to do so vs. the amount of time it takes to make a pretty solid Mario level is pretty disproportionate just due to the vast size difference of a Sonic level vs. a Mario one.

With that being said, I'm probably buying and gifting out multiple copies of this game if only to support the idea of A) more 2D Sonic games perhaps with even more original assets and B) to support what SEGA is doing with its community. The guys working on this were literally rom-hackers/engine developers with a giant wave of support from the retro Sonic community and it's amazing to see SEGA reach out and give them a chance to work on a big project. The physics look spot on and the gameplay looks incredible, and this is the first new Sonic game to have Knuckles playable since 2004 and I think that's relevant to my interests greatly.

I care about this because it's the kind of Sonic game I've wanted for a long time. I go back to the old games far more often than I go back to the new ones (even though Colors and Generations are EXCELLENT games) and if this game is like Mega Man 10 then sign me up, I considered Mega Man 10 to be much more polished and full of features than 9 was.

TL;DR I'm really excited for this game because I feel fully catered to for a change. It's literally Sonic Generations but fully 2D and with the bonus of new content alongside revisions of old content, without the wonky physics that Classic Sonic had in Generations (he was fun there but....felt weird).

But are there truly grown men in this world?!
Last Edit: July 24, 2016, 07:37:56 pm by Killer Kong

Negi Springfield

Re: General Sonic The Hedgehog franchise discussion
#214  July 24, 2016, 06:21:12 pm
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Most of your arguments for bad level design pretty much sum up Sonic 1.
Spoiler, click to toggle visibilty


As for this game itself, i'm cautiously optimistic. It's being worked on by the same guy who made the Sonic CD remake so i'm optimistic but the part that worries me is him creating his own content. But then again, he is at least being overwatched by Sega themselves (or at least i'd hope so) so I'd assume there is some QQ.

tl;dr git hype but not 2 hype

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Re: General Sonic The Hedgehog franchise discussion
#215  July 24, 2016, 07:08:17 pm
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Negi Springfield said, July 24, 2016, 06:21:12 pm
Most of your arguments for bad level design pretty much sum up Sonic 1.
Spoiler, click to toggle visibilty
Haha, yeah that was my goal. The old team ain't the only guys who can make a damn good 2D Sonic game, I say. Old Sonic Team was fantastic, I won't paint them as anything but, however some of their levels were....interesting (Metropolis, Labyrinth, Marble.) I'll never stand down on my Sonic level editor comment though, the work it takes to make a good Sonic level is....vastly underestimated.

I'm not worried about Whitehead or Stealth doing too much to this game in terms of their own original content outside of Zones and whatnot. But if they do, fret not! Their original content is even quite spectacular, honest! Additionally PagodaWest is formed by some people who used to be a part of the old Sonic 2 HD project as well, so the team working on this really, REALLY knows their Sonic.

Spoiler, click to toggle visibilty
This is some of Whitehead's scrapped work, well, just a piece of it. Stuff he wanted to do with Sonic CD, mostly. I wouldn't have been opposed to it, I always thought CD's actual final boss kind of sucked.

On the note of bad Sonic levels, I hope they actually choose to remake some of the less stellar levels. I would love to see a fun version of say, Marble Zone or a more enjoyable version of Labyrinth Zone, for instance. Or like, any zone from Sonic CD that wasn't Palmtree Panic or Stardust Speedway (Quartz Quadrant was ok tho and so was Tidal Tempest, but Collision Chaos and Wacky Workbench were just dreadful.) Who knows what they'll do though? I'm more than positive we'll have an original final zone, and I'm just really stoked that they're not just making only Sonic playable.

Also it's probably been pointed out but I saw the bonus rings from Sonic 3 are making a comeback too, thank god. I don't like the mandate of having to have 50 rings to enter a bonus area, never have.

To further reinstate my point though, so it makes more sense: Here are a couple of standard solid Sonic stages.
Emerald Hill Act 2: http://www.soniczone0.com/games/sonic2/downloads/s2-ehz-act2map.png
Angel Island Act 1: http://www.soniczone0.com/games/sonic3/downloads/s3-aiz-act1map.png

Like, the setpieces and tile design is just too specific to be really intuitive for people, and god these are huge, I couldn't even use a spoiler and link them in that, I think that would still lag and take a while to load for some, so I had to opt for direct links.

There's a damn good reason why fan game creator Lake Fepard was considered a hivemind or a robot when he put out Sonic Before the Sequel, Sonic After the Sequel, and Sonic Chrono Adventure in the window of time that he did. They follow most of the classic Sonic level design rules (well, the first two do.)

But are there truly grown men in this world?!
Last Edit: July 24, 2016, 07:30:27 pm by Killer Kong

Snakebyte

Re: General Sonic The Hedgehog franchise discussion
#216  August 04, 2016, 08:09:39 am
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I'm too lazy to read through most of the discussion here, but for my $0.02 as someone whose first video game was Sonic 2, Mania doesn't appeal to me because of how much original assets were used. It feels like half of it is a rip from earlier games, and I want to play new things.

I'm sure it'll be fine, but it just isn't attractive to me because of that.

TrinitroRoy

Re: General Sonic The Hedgehog franchise discussion
#217  August 16, 2016, 12:27:25 pm
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bitter nothings said, April 30, 2010, 09:35:51 pm
you are all small and can't grow manly sideburns

TrinitroRoy

Re: General Sonic The Hedgehog franchise discussion
#218  September 05, 2016, 10:12:07 pm
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Direct feed footage:

Contains following new things:
*demo stage select theme (full loop)
*proper showcase of the Green Hill Zone theme as well as the boss theme
*now we can hear the sounds of new things (mix of old sounds and new sounds)
*Studiopolis contains Eggman signs you can spin around into Sonic ones
*while already a given due to how much S3&K influence there is, this footage confirms that endlevel signposts can be indeed juggled
===My discord servers===
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Touhou database (by Ryouchi):
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bitter nothings said, April 30, 2010, 09:35:51 pm
you are all small and can't grow manly sideburns

Zer0Mojo

Re: General Sonic The Hedgehog franchise discussion
#219  September 06, 2016, 12:04:48 am
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I'm liking this so far. I heard that the Green Hill remake is the tamest of the remakes. So I'm pumped for this!

walt

Re: General Sonic The Hedgehog franchise discussion
#220  September 06, 2016, 03:08:17 pm
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It's so oldschool, that if I saw detractors complaining about this being "pretty samey" I'd understand it completely.

But ... I want this.
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