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Battle of Gods: Organized Religion Discussion (Read 28855 times)

Started by Chronan, November 14, 2017, 11:11:59 pm
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Chronan

Battle of Gods: Organized Religion Discussion
#1  November 14, 2017, 11:11:59 pm
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Come back from a week in Mexico and a week in Penn and this thread went from shit show to diarrhea diorama. So I guess not much changed except VGames started posting too, so I'll do what everyone is doing and go for easy targets!
Jmorphman said, November 14, 2017, 11:02:05 pm
yeah man totally, the best jokes are is the kind where one posts long paragraphs of absolute nonsense and everyone of all different political beliefs points and mocks them relentlessly. But little do they know they're all being pranked by a master troll!

Gosh, it's all just so clever.
Dude, it would have been better to not respond. Look at the picture again, it's obviously a fucking joke.
"Why wasn't he born on a farm like a regular American." Doesn't take any level of clever.

Person Man said, November 14, 2017, 10:02:51 pm
VGames said, November 14, 2017, 09:41:07 pm
Muslims need to step up and denounce the things that the "radical" ones are doing if they want to get out of the terrorist spotlight.

Arrogant, bigoted, willfully ignorant, jingoist, conspiracy theorist, and racist on top of all that?  You're like some kind of alt-right greatest hits compilation, aren't you?
Do not jump onto the "You're a racist!" train because he's insulting Islam and demanding Muslims "step up and denounce". Noone called Rajaa or whoever it was a racist for shitting on Christianity/Christians 5-10 years ago, back in the heyday of e-Atheism's battles against the Bible. They may have called him some "Aladdin motherfucker" or something, but not racist. Muslim != Race or Arab or whatever the spin on Muslims has been. Yes obvious, but you're falling for and subconsciously spewing the bullshit you ate a year ago about this.
As autistic as VGames is and has been being and as stupid as the "they need to denounce" bullshit is for both normal Muslims and for Trump(remember when he had to denounce? that was literally retarded!). VGames, AFAIK, hasn't come out saying he dislikes or is against Arabs or "brown people". Unless there is something I missed that you didn't quote. I agree with him on CNN though, especially after that embarrassing as fuck "Apple" ad, which also completely killed Colbert. They only have themselves to blame for that. It's really one of the only things Trump's been consistently correct on.

The outrage to this particular Trump tweet is more embarrassing than it being a Tweet from the president himself, honestly a pretty funny Tweet aside. Some of you guys are coming off pretty unhinged, no matter how "crazy" Trump and the manlet seem. Now that I know that I'm officially better than all of you, combined at this point. I've decided to close this thread down before the end of the week. Then I'm closing down the MFG forums the week after. It's over, we had a nice thing going here but now it's finished. This decision is FINAL. See you all @ MI.

Person Man

Re: Re: The Donald Trump Political MAGAthread: Revenge of the Obama Birthers
#2  November 14, 2017, 11:18:25 pm
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Byakko

Re: Re: The Donald Trump Political MAGAthread: Revenge of the Obama Birthers
#3  November 14, 2017, 11:19:14 pm
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VGames said, November 14, 2017, 10:58:52 pm
@ Person Man - Well the thing is people who kill people aren't Christians.
lol yeah they are. Remember the part when the Church itself spent hundreds of years burning people and cleansing heretics and stuff or did you just skip History / all of school ? This is what Christianity is. And that's also what everyone else is for that matter. You don't get to decide what's Christian and what's not, especially if you're quoting specific parts of the Bible that are directly contradicted by other parts of the Bible anyway, which happens all the time.
If I struggled to the end of my determination, to the end of my way of life with my followers, if the result is ruin, then this ruin is inevitable. Grieve. Shed tears. But you cannot regret.
Last Edit: November 14, 2017, 11:29:02 pm by Byakko

Do not even ask

Re: Re: The Donald Trump Political MAGAthread: Revenge of the Obama Birthers
#4  November 14, 2017, 11:20:41 pm
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Mechy

Re: Re: The Donald Trump Political MAGAthread: Revenge of the Obama Birthers
#5  November 14, 2017, 11:21:23 pm
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And no god exists in the first place, so it's all just kinda awkward.
"Multiple exclamation marks are a sure sign of a diseased mind."

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Jmorphman

Re: Re: The Donald Trump Political MAGAthread: Revenge of the Obama Birthers
#6  November 14, 2017, 11:23:31 pm
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Chronan said, November 14, 2017, 11:11:59 pm
Dude, it would have been better to not respond. Look at the picture again, it's obviously a fucking joke.
"Why wasn't he born on a farm like a regular American." Doesn't take any level of clever.
I'm not talking about that dumb image, I'm talking about all his posts in this thread (hence the "long paragraphs"), which he seems to be reframing as trolling now.

lui

Re: Re: The Donald Trump Political MAGAthread: Revenge of the Obama Birthers
#7  November 14, 2017, 11:26:31 pm
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Chronan

Re: Re: The Donald Trump Political MAGAthread: Revenge of the Obama Birthers
#8  November 14, 2017, 11:45:13 pm
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Jmorphman said, November 14, 2017, 11:23:31 pm
Chronan said, November 14, 2017, 11:11:59 pm
Dude, it would have been better to not respond. Look at the picture again, it's obviously a fucking joke.
"Why wasn't he born on a farm like a regular American." Doesn't take any level of clever.
I'm not talking about that dumb image, I'm talking about all his posts in this thread (hence the "long paragraphs"), which he seems to be reframing as trolling now.
No, you were jokingly pressing him for Obama's birthplace after he said "Hawaii I don't know". Then when he posted the image in response to you, and you fired back with the "gotcha!" response below:
Jmorphman said, November 14, 2017, 10:32:43 pm
holy shit you actually went there LOL
Keep in mind this post was immediately after his joke image, that need not be reframed as a troll post. It was his joke, you misunderstood it or ignored the premise to one-up him. It was your error. Trust me on this one, I'm a Mugen Detective afterall, Poirot ain't got shit on me. Most of VGames posts have been borderline troll since he started, his problem is he gets seemingly serious after people call him a troll or a retard. So maybe he's just retarded, but in this particular instance, he burned you.

Person Man said, November 14, 2017, 11:18:25 pm
Chronan said, November 14, 2017, 11:11:59 pm
Do not jump onto the "You're a racist!" train because he's insulting Islam

... That is literally the definition of racism.
... Nope, I'm afraid not! Otherwise I would have been unironically calling video atheists racists back in the early days of Youtube. The media would have shat all over Chanology back then for being racist against Scientologists too.
Religion != Race, even in the case of the Jews where there is a Jewish religion and a Jewish race. I get it, a lot of Muslims are Arabs, and that's where your mistake is. I can call Islam a dogshit religion, but I wouldn't be racist for doing so. Clearly I'd be a dick for doing so, because I'm shitting on someone's faith, but I'd be no worse than pretty much every sperg on the net with a hate boner for "God" and the faithful. Hope that makes more sense.

Jmorphman

Re: Re: The Donald Trump Political MAGAthread: Revenge of the Obama Birthers
#9  November 14, 2017, 11:59:57 pm
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Chronan said, November 14, 2017, 11:45:13 pm
No, you were jokingly pressing him for Obama's birthplace after he said "Hawaii I don't know". Then when he posted the image in response to you, and you fired back with the "gotcha!" response below.
Again I'm not talking about the image, I'm talking about his actual text. He kept using weasel words about Obama's birthplace, then tried make it seem like he was trolling/joking all along, that shit is funny.

Person Man

Re: Re: The Donald Trump Political MAGAthread: Revenge of the Obama Birthers
#10  November 15, 2017, 12:01:12 am
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Chronan said, November 14, 2017, 11:45:13 pm
... Nope, I'm afraid not! Otherwise I would have been unironically calling video atheists racists back in the early days of Youtube. The media would have shat all over Chanology back then for being racist against Scientologists too.
Religion != Race, even in the case of the Jews where there is a Jewish religion and a Jewish race. I get it, a lot of Muslims are Arabs, and that's where your mistake is. I can call Islam a dogshit religion, but I wouldn't be racist for doing so. Clearly I'd be a dick for doing so, because I'm shitting on someone's faith, but I'd be no worse than pretty much every sperg on the net with a hate boner for "God" and the faithful. Hope that makes more sense.

^ That's just splitting hairs.  It's a functionally identical concept:  Discriminating against a group of people for being different than oneself.  There's not a better word in the common vernacular that specifically applies to religion as opposed to skin color, but it's still the exact same thing.

Snakebyte

Re: Re: The Donald Trump Political MAGAthread: Revenge of the Obama Birthers
#11  November 15, 2017, 12:08:24 am
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Person Man said, November 14, 2017, 03:07:40 pm
Let the record show that it was at this point Snakebyte started arguing in favor of nuclear war.

Let the record show that Person Man is utterly incapable of refraining from mischaracterizing my posts.

Quote
I mean, he's deliberately misinterpreting what other people are saying to fit his own narrative, so turnabout's fair play, right?

actually pro tip if a thing is bad it's bad when you do it too.

MY OPPONENT DID A BAD THING SO I'M GOING TO DO IT TOO is why no one fucking trusts politicians anymore. integrity matters.

edit: Also holy shit are you seriously saying you can be racist against a religion? You can't change your race. You can change your beliefs. Religion is what you think and do, race is your biology. They're not even fucking remotely comparable. How is that post real.
Last Edit: November 15, 2017, 12:16:42 am by Snakebyte

Person Man

Re: Re: The Donald Trump Political MAGAthread: Revenge of the Obama Birthers
#12  November 15, 2017, 12:32:02 am
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Try actually reading instead of "mischaracterizing my posts."

Person Man said, November 15, 2017, 12:01:12 am
  It's a functionally identical concept:

There's not a better word  but it's still the exact same thing.

What I'm saying is discrimination against an entire group of people based on religious beliefs isn't somehow better or more acceptable than discrimination based on skin color just because it doesn't have it's own buzzword.  Two shades of the same thing.

Snakebyte

Re: Re: The Donald Trump Political MAGAthread: Revenge of the Obama Birthers
#13  November 15, 2017, 12:53:25 am
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I literally explained why it's better and more acceptable and not the same thing at all.

It is acceptable to discriminate against people for what they believe, because beliefs are something they can control.

You do it all the time in this thread.

Person Man

Re: Re: The Donald Trump Political MAGAthread: Revenge of the Obama Birthers
#14  November 15, 2017, 01:04:12 am
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I know being contrarian is your entire thing, but you do realize that you're currently arguing in defense of discrimination against Muslims just so you can say you proved me wrong, right?

Snakebyte

Re: Re: The Donald Trump Political MAGAthread: Revenge of the Obama Birthers
#15  November 15, 2017, 01:29:06 am
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No, I'm in defense of discrimination against Muslims because I'm consistent in caring about human rights.

When you want to join me on the side that actually cares about women and gay rights, lemme know.

Turns out, it's consistency that's my entire thing.

Religion can get fucked. It's not an excuse to oppress anyone, and it isn't a magical shield from criticism.

I'd happily discriminate against Christians too.

Person Man

Re: Re: The Donald Trump Political MAGAthread: Revenge of the Obama Birthers
#16  November 15, 2017, 01:34:40 am
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Well, I mean as long as you're aware of your own bigotry, I guess...

Snakebyte

Re: Re: The Donald Trump Political MAGAthread: Revenge of the Obama Birthers
#17  November 15, 2017, 01:37:34 am
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I'll be 'bigoted' against people who think:

* Killing people who don't believe in your god is OK
* Killing people who draw pictures of your god is OK
* Women are lesser and it's okay to rape them if they don't cover themselves
* Killing gay people is the compassionate thing to do

...any fucking day, mate. If you aren't, you're the one being immoral.

Byakko

Re: Re: The Donald Trump Political MAGAthread: Revenge of the Obama Birthers
#18  November 15, 2017, 02:12:28 am
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None of that is "all of the Islamic faith" any more than the Crusades and heretic burning are "all of Christianity" . Not all of today's Christians think that gays will burn in Hell (despite a lot of today's Christians, but not the same ones, being very vocal about it),  just the same as a lot of Muslims today don't actually care about all the stuff you say.
That's the point, if you're prejudiced against the entire group because of what you know of the few, then you're no different from the average racist.
If I struggled to the end of my determination, to the end of my way of life with my followers, if the result is ruin, then this ruin is inevitable. Grieve. Shed tears. But you cannot regret.

Chronan

Re: Re: The Donald Trump Political MAGAthread: Revenge of the Obama Birthers
#19  November 15, 2017, 02:53:36 am
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Person Man said, November 15, 2017, 12:01:12 am
Chronan said, November 14, 2017, 11:45:13 pm
... Nope, I'm afraid not! Otherwise I would have been unironically calling video atheists racists back in the early days of Youtube. The media would have shat all over Chanology back then for being racist against Scientologists too.
Religion != Race, even in the case of the Jews where there is a Jewish religion and a Jewish race. I get it, a lot of Muslims are Arabs, and that's where your mistake is. I can call Islam a dogshit religion, but I wouldn't be racist for doing so. Clearly I'd be a dick for doing so, because I'm shitting on someone's faith, but I'd be no worse than pretty much every sperg on the net with a hate boner for "God" and the faithful. Hope that makes more sense.
^ That's just splitting hairs.  It's a functionally identical concept:  Discriminating against a group of people for being different than oneself.  There's not a better word in the common vernacular that specifically applies to religion as opposed to skin color, but it's still the exact same thing.
American Education is really failing these days. "Religious Prejudice" which is totally different from racism outside of it being a form of prejudice. Carries an entirely different societal weight to it. You can civilly discuss and question religion in public. You can not do the same for race, without some form consequence on most occasions. Being a racist today can permanently blacklist you from many career industries, having religious prejudices can blacklist you from Hollywood or Silicon Valley.. temporarily... depending on which religions you speak out distastefully for. This isn't splitting hairs, this is reality. In time it will change, but for now..

If he said "Women are a bunch of dick loving we are dumb fucks spamming this site for ten yearss!" and you said he was racist against women. I'd still be coming after you for that. Same concept. I'm just annoyed at how widely misused "racist/racism" has become and how much power the word has now in western society, even when incorrectly attributed. Only because I'm a real honest-to-goodness racist, and I'm sick of being compared to all these turbo nerd wannabes from 4chan and Mugen sites. :(

Snakebyte

Re: Re: The Donald Trump Political MAGAthread: Revenge of the Obama Birthers
#20  November 15, 2017, 03:25:28 am
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Byakko said, November 15, 2017, 02:12:28 am
None of that is "all of the Islamic faith" any more than the Crusades and heretic burning are "all of Christianity" . Not all of today's Christians think that gays will burn in Hell (despite a lot of today's Christians, but not the same ones, being very vocal about it),  just the same as a lot of Muslims today don't actually care about all the stuff you say.
That's the point, if you're prejudiced against the entire group because of what you know of the few, then you're no different from the average racist.

That's a valid point, and why I normally split the hair of opposing the religion rather than each person who subscribes to the religion. There are plenty of people who say they are Muslim who don't believe any of these things. Just as there are a lot of people who claim to be Christian but barely actually do or think anything religious in practice, the same is true of Muslims. I do believe everything I listed is an accurate representation of Islam itself, and for the most part, I believe that if you claim to be Muslim and don't believe those things, you're not a very good Muslim. But there are a lot of people who aren't very good Muslims, and a lot of people who aren't very good Christians, who pay lip service to the religion but actually have more or less secular values.

You're right, I was oversimplifying an argument. I think we disagree on who is the 'many' and who is the 'few' here, but your overall point still holds.

edit: THAT SAID, I'm still fully behind discriminating against people for their ideas. The point Byakko made is that we can't assume everyone claiming to be part of a religion has the same ideas. Totally valid.
Last Edit: November 15, 2017, 03:33:33 am by Snakebyte
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