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Mugen Character Funding  (Read 16601 times)

Started by "Bad News" Hoffmann, November 13, 2013, 09:09:38 am
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Mugen Character Funding
#1  November 13, 2013, 09:09:38 am
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Hi,

those among you who read my 2 comments in the poll about a character getting the honor to be done by Sean as a commissioned work know that i wanted the Tekken character Bryan Fury getting done and i offered to add a handful bucks if he would win the poll or would be done still after Batman won.


This, and seeing that not everyone liked the poll result just gave me a short thought which could work maybe.


We are many people here, and many people have even more many opinions and characters they would love to get done by those among us who have the talent and are offering to work for the people who want specific characters.

But as much as you might like to see a cool version of the Punisher, Earthworm Jim or Bryan Fury, not everyone of us has 50, 100 or 200 bucks to pay the price.

So how about getting a thread together were people can make suggestions who should be sprized /coded and by who + offer to donate  - as example - 10 bucks of the - as example - 100 needed to make the character possible.

Basically something like a mini kickstarter for mugen characters.

It is a slightly different world but i did something like that for fan art of game characters getting commissioned by professional artists through small teams of fans who wanted to see that character drawn by a specific artist via deviantart. I made good experiences there.


Since 20 other people beside me voted for Bryan Fury from Tekken getting done by Sean. who else here would donate as example 5 or 10 dollars to make that possible?
Last Edit: November 14, 2013, 12:04:36 am by Germanbaraka667
Re: Maybe something like a donation pool?
#2  November 13, 2013, 09:17:20 am
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I'd donate so Bryan would never be made.

Yeah it sucks but whatever, let it go. Maybe we could raise money so he could do someone else later next year but for now. just let it be man. Also I think it's fair we let them do someone they want really, if this does become a reality then I'm sure Sean would be bummed out he couldn't do the Dark Knight and he probably wouldn't put his all into this new character as perhaps he'd lose some motivation. I say just let him be and let them have fun with it.
Re: Maybe something like a donation pool?
#3  November 13, 2013, 09:21:21 am
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Oh, i didnt mean for now of course, Sean does Batman and thats great and all. Bryan was meant as an example case and nothing needs to be done now, in the next days or next weeks. This was not meant to get Bryan done now at any costs. I just wanted to discuss the idea of multiple of us coming together and make a commission for a character possible, be it Bryan, Bruce, Brian Battler or Maya the Bee
Re: Maybe something like a donation pool?
#4  November 13, 2013, 09:24:29 am
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Hmm I see. Well maybe we could see if some spriters might be up for the idea. We have some talented artists here, maybe some might be open to this donation pool, although I figure the same conflicts could come from this issue, not everyone gets a favorite but I suppose with donating you'll donate to a particular character you know. From what I've seen I think Sean is gonna have his hands full for a while so I think seeing if others are interested in it might be nice, make sheets and then see who wants to code it possibly.
Re: Maybe something like a donation pool?
#5  November 13, 2013, 06:10:28 pm
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Yup.

Now after a half day without a reaction, i guess there are not many people interested to commission someone for a good character. Even if it could be done with 3 ,5,10 dollars.

Re: Maybe something like a donation pool?
#6  November 13, 2013, 06:14:30 pm
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If itll help the scene stay afloat Ill donate to any character

If this happens hit me up ill see how I can help
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Re: Maybe something like a donation pool?
#7  November 13, 2013, 06:22:39 pm
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CvS Mature? CvS Mature!

CVS MATURE!!! :yeses:
Re: Maybe something like a donation pool?
#8  November 13, 2013, 06:25:52 pm
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Thats the spirit. Sometimes, a small donation can change a landscape if enough people are on board.

Okay, i will just throw in exactly 15 euro, for whatever character would get funded by at least 5 different people

How much would you throw in the for now virtual pot @ Umezono?

@JM are you serious? If yes, the question above is adressed at you at well.


Who are Mugen creators offering to take commissions beside Sean?

DW

Re: Maybe something like a donation pool?
#9  November 13, 2013, 06:27:12 pm
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I'd be happy to pitch in 5-10 dollars for a commission. It'd have to be something I myself would want done of course, but sure, I'm all for it.
Re: Maybe something like a donation pool?
#10  November 13, 2013, 06:33:13 pm
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i already brought up pooling up resources in felo's commissions thread
http://mugenguild.com/forum/msg.1860990

the main issue i see right now is that you've got a lot of people saying "yeah i'd toss in some bucks buddy!" and then nothing happens. nobody knows what's going on, how much money has been collected, whatever. some way of keeping track of the collected amount of money would be helpful and could get more users to throw money in.

of course you've then got to consider the legality of this, but since it's just people putting together money to commission someone to make a thing that will be made available for free, i don't think there should be much of an issue.
Re: Maybe something like a donation pool?
#11  November 13, 2013, 06:41:41 pm
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Re: Maybe something like a donation pool?
#12  November 13, 2013, 06:46:08 pm
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^That's for Mature though mind you. I'm don't really want to do anything for Mature.
Last Edit: November 13, 2013, 06:51:51 pm by Alucart
Re: Maybe something like a donation pool?
#13  November 13, 2013, 06:47:17 pm
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i'd like to add that i see kickstarters for terrible shit get a lot of money and the first thing i think about is "JESUS CHRIST IMAGINE HOW MANY SPRITES YOU COULD COMMISSION WITH THAT MONEY"
Re: Maybe something like a donation pool?
#14  November 13, 2013, 06:48:59 pm
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Well I'm obviously not going to throw anything until something legitimate is set up as per Titiln pointed out. But I am down to throw in something like 10-15 dollars, maybe 20 depending on the character. I don't want to go higher because of the risk factor.
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Re: Maybe something like a donation pool?
#15  November 13, 2013, 06:49:54 pm
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Good point Tiltin, i thought about it too.

To make it pretty safe that there are not just people saying "i throw in x amount" a paypal account for the cause makes sense where people have to donate the money they want to donate to once a certain amount of money came together.

Years ago i "worked" for a group of game rippers and got donations together for old french, german, japanese playstation 1 games to buy them from ebay etc. and rip a few informations and content out of them which were used for a database.

I made a paypal account for that and everytime someone donated to it i added the information to the first post of a forum thread to ensure transparency for everyone and also wrote up where i bought games and for what prices to make sure everyone knows what happend to his money.
Those were not 5 or 10 bucks donated but much bigger donations in the three and four digits.


I know my reputation here as (shit)poster is not the highest but you can find my real name online, even my real life adress is not hard to find and i would offer to take care of donations for one character commission , and see how it would go


@JM really? is there something special about Mature with CVS looking sprites and gameplay? And are you not one of the guys who could create the character by yourself ?

@Tiltin#2
Meh. Stop making me agreeing to you multiple times at a day...thats not good for my health.
Re: Maybe something like a donation pool?
#16  November 13, 2013, 06:55:02 pm
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i think the donations in this case should go straight to the spriter, who should show update the amount of received money often. i don't think a middleman is necessary (unless the spriter can't use paypal or other common ways of payment, and the middleman can work with paypal and uncommon ways of payment)
Re: Maybe something like a donation pool?
#17  November 13, 2013, 06:57:20 pm
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i think the donations in this case should go straight to the spriter, who should show update the amount of received money often. i don't think a middleman is necessary.
I agree, but I think you may run the risk of a spriter who is too lazy or preoccupied to deal with maintaining a donation pool and regularly updating. If there were a middleman who was willing to be on top of everything and we could trust, I think it is a good alternate option.

By rule of thumb its always good to cut out the middleman though
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Re: Maybe something like a donation pool?
#18  November 13, 2013, 06:58:43 pm
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Ok, but Fello and Sean are bussy, Balth is working on the Z2 chars, who else takes commissions?

Re: Maybe something like a donation pool?
#19  November 13, 2013, 06:59:27 pm
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i think the donations in this case should go straight to the spriter, who should show update the amount of received money often. i don't think a middleman is necessary (unless the spriter can't use paypal or other common ways of payment, and the middleman can work with paypal and uncommon ways of payment)
The role of "The Middleman" may prove necessary as a Public Relations person or Financial Manager, to avoid pestering the Spriter with menial "Hype" tasks.

The whole point here is to Lure the spriter (via financial funds, mind you) into doing something, not have the spriter do all the work of convincing people to give him money ... that has barely ever worked.

Maybe someone could dig up the HAGGAR KICKSTARTER thread to review how it happened spontaneously :P

Re: Maybe something like a donation pool?
#20  November 13, 2013, 07:00:36 pm
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i'm aware that having a middleman has several benefits fort the convenience of the spriter. maybe the spriter in question should pick the middleman if anything
Re: Maybe something like a donation pool?
#21  November 13, 2013, 07:01:18 pm
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middleman elections get #hype
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Re: Maybe something like a donation pool?
#22  November 13, 2013, 07:05:15 pm
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So, if I understand this correctly (pardon my ignorance) it's because people weren't happy about BATMAN winning the poll for Sean to sprite.

... but I'd understand this uproar if it was supposed to unanimously be headed somewhere, it doesn't seem like EVERYBODY wanted a Brian Fury.



For JayMohrMann - Felo is still open to be commisioned. If he could start with your immediate needs with 50 USD, maybe you could use that as a downpayment, and rally the fundraiser for the remaining of the requested sprites :deal2:
Re: Maybe something like a donation pool?
#23  November 13, 2013, 07:09:04 pm
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I mean it doesn't have to be a revenge tactic. I think this is a good idea regardless of context, it's just that it came about because this happened. Better now then never??

Like I honestly never cared who would win that poll, I just saw this thread and automatically thought, this is is a good idea.
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Re: Maybe something like a donation pool?
#24  November 13, 2013, 07:14:07 pm
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So, if I understand this correctly (pardon my ignorance) it's because people weren't happy about BATMAN winning the poll for Sean to sprite.

... but I'd understand this uproar if it was supposed to unanimously be headed somewhere, it doesn't seem like EVERYBODY wanted a Brian Fury.
That's kinda how this came across to me too.  Interested where this goes (for good or for ill).
Last Edit: November 14, 2013, 07:47:10 am by Roman55
Re: Maybe something like a donation pool?
#25  November 13, 2013, 07:17:15 pm
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I would donate 20 dollars for a Goro Daimon, Ramon or Shermie in a CVS style.
http://mugenguild.com/forum/iron-muscle-bomber.400
Rahhhhhhh, AI is so hard to deal with !!!!
Re: Maybe something like a donation pool?
#26  November 13, 2013, 07:27:03 pm
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@ walt
The thing that Batman instead of Bryan Fury won, was the initial cause why i thought about a donation pool idea, but the main reason for that was that i saw that there were 20 more people beside me who voted for Bryan.

So i started thinking. "Hmm..20 people want a Bryan Fury made for Mugen" "hmm..why can't this not be achieved easily if there are

#1 Talented spriters and coders who are offering their talents for money
#2 People who don't have 50/100/500 bucks to commission one of these artists but could offer a small amount to make these wish characters possible, be they from KOF, never seen in a fighting game or as 2D version or any other fighting game character.
#3 Myself. A guy whose best talent is to bring people together in the internet since many years and is good with organizing.


I can help you and maintain a donation pool (at least one time to see if its effective and for the benefit of everyone involved) but i need a few things and informations.

#1 Your trust. And i bet that is not easy to achieve for me.
#2 A list of Mugen Spriters and coders who are offering their service and for what + under what conditions.
#3. People who can clearly say what they want /expect from a character, so i could give the artist all needed informations and instructions about what is expected.
If someone says as example CVS Mature, does that mean a simple spritesheet, are specific attacks /animations or gameplay features wanted?

If we would just start right now, and JM is serious and FeLo open for a CVS Mature, i am throwing in 15 bucks like mentioned.

I am also offering to be the "middle man" or donation-pool maintainer.

One middle person has the benefit that the wehole thing can be done very transparent, via the forum, and also comfortable for the artist who would get just one payment instead of 20 bucks on day 1, another 10 on day 2 and so on.

If someone else wants to be the middle-man i am fine with that too.
Last Edit: November 14, 2013, 09:35:26 am by Germanbaraka667
Re: Maybe something like a donation pool?
#27  November 13, 2013, 08:09:50 pm
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Well I figured middle man would collect something until a spriter became available, since not every spriter will always be available.
Re: Maybe something like a donation pool?
#28  November 13, 2013, 08:27:37 pm
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I would just like to confirm that I am indeed really tied-up with Z2 chars, and I hardly need the money.
Isn't FeLo already getting a lot of buzz for his CvS Juri? This kind of donation pool would be very good for him,
and indeed it was even already suggested in his commissions thread. Plus, he DOES need the money!
Re: Maybe something like a donation pool?
#29  November 13, 2013, 09:38:07 pm
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Man I just realized I would donate a fuckton for a C. Jack in cvs style
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Re: Maybe something like a donation pool?
#30  November 14, 2013, 12:02:59 am
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Well I figured middle man would collect something until a spriter became available, since not every spriter will always be available.

Thats the plan.

Once a needed amount of money is together, the artist would be contacted, the deal done, the money transfers would be made transparent via this or another forum thread.

It can start right now as a tryout , thats up to you.
Get money together and i will do my part to make good use of it + add 15 euro to the first character who gets the support of multiple donators.

..nuff for now..its time for a nap.
Last Edit: November 14, 2013, 09:35:38 am by Germanbaraka667
Re: Mugen Character Funding
#31  November 14, 2013, 12:23:55 am
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yall do realize that sean is like RIGHT there? You dont need no middle man, just set it up with him and send him the money directly , him or whoever else is going to be your selected spriter.
Re: Mugen Character Funding
#32  November 14, 2013, 12:30:58 am
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which character is gonna be created and who is gonna be the spriter ? te coder is very likely ot emerge by itself, but those first two questions need to be answered someway. maybe ask the spriters around to see if which oens are free, in this case  I think we can assume that both felo and sean are kinda free, so it's only necessary to confirm with them.
so the biggest question is to decide which character, since you want to gather donations an idea would be to make some kind of poll but have a requisite that the people who vote are willing to donate.
I would donate 20 dollars for a Goro Daimon, Ramon or Shermie in a CVS style.

something like this because forum polls don't allow enough control.
Re: Mugen Character Funding
#33  November 14, 2013, 12:44:23 am
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Sounds complicated... I like the system we have now.
And Bryan wasn't even the best Tekken choice anyway. Now if it was Lei Wulong, I'd be more inclined to agree.
Re: Mugen Character Funding
#34  November 14, 2013, 12:47:07 am
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Nope, no polls because yup like you mentioned, nobody can control who is voting, except its done via a forum post.

Solving the character question can be easy.

There are three people here including me who mentioned they would donate some bucks to whichever character gets done for the sake of new content by talented mugen creators.

There is JM who mentioned he would donate 25-50 bucks for s CVS Mature as example
His + the amount of funding for whatever character could be around 100 bucks already.

Than there is the possibility that mfgler A wants to donate 20 dollars but is not a fan of Mature.

In that case he could mention which character he wants + by who and what amount of money he would donate. The middleman/ crowdfunding manager could add that to the first post to form a list of what characters people want and how many they want to donate.
If other people read that and mention they want to donate something for that character as well, that info could be added. If the virtual crowdfunding amount reaches - as example 100 or 200 dollars the middleman could try to get the whole amount needed to make character XY together and see if the wanted artists are available. After thats done, the interested people could send either the middleman the amount of money or directly to the artist.

Through a middleman it means a bit less work for the artists, and he can provide transparency and show who donated what via one post in the thread

Thats more or less how i did it many years ago with ps1 games and recently and currently with art commissions and contests on dA.

@Niltris - what system?

Bea

Re: Mugen Character Funding
#35  November 14, 2013, 01:13:10 am
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I would rather put my money towards spriting original characters or comic/cartoon/movie characters that were never ported to sprite form and would be interesting to play with.
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Re: Mugen Character Funding
#36  November 14, 2013, 01:23:23 am
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the need for a middleman is up to the spriter (in this case seanaltly since several people had a huge boner about him doing bryan fury sprites) to decide
Re: Mugen Character Funding
#37  November 14, 2013, 01:29:23 am
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Sorry I didn't read it right (I've been pretty clumsy with text lately). :dizzy2:

Get people to throw their money into a pot and whomever decides to do the spriting would get the reward. Basically it would be like character bounties or something like that... pretty good idea.
Re: Mugen Character Funding
#38  November 14, 2013, 01:32:59 am
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thing is everyone contributing needs to agree on a single char to be made.
You'll fix chuchoryu ? Sounds like a plan. How about you code him from scratch instead ?
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Re: Mugen Character Funding
#39  November 14, 2013, 01:37:15 am
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the poll is a good sample of what people would like to see sprited. there's probably enough interest to see spritesets for bryan, spike and link
Re: Mugen Character Funding
#40  November 14, 2013, 01:39:02 am
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Bryan seems to have a lot of demand for whatever reason
Re: Mugen Character Funding
#41  November 14, 2013, 01:41:28 am
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Re: Mugen Character Funding
#42  November 14, 2013, 01:58:45 am
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I don't see why he's so popular, Yoshimitsu and King are a lot better

Re: Mugen Character Funding
#43  November 14, 2013, 02:03:23 am
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That's your opinion that nobody cares about, just like how I think Miguel is the shit but nobody cares about that

When it comes to things of opinion like this all that matters in the end is that there is more of them than us
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Re: Mugen Character Funding
#44  November 14, 2013, 02:09:29 am
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I would think Bryan would be cool cause there isn´t sprites of him anyways (plus the only Tekken characters nicely done are Jin and Kazuya) but that´s just me.
Re: Maybe something like a donation pool?
#45  November 14, 2013, 02:11:18 am
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Re: Mugen Character Funding
#46  November 14, 2013, 02:32:55 am
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Considering it will probably take a little while for this to take off, I'd be down to throw some money towards any of the remaining characters from my poll.  Brock, Jason, Spike, Link, and Rocket Raccoon* in particular.

Maybe the 1st post could be updated with the potential characters and who/how much would be pledged toward their creation.  I would like to see some spriters have a say in this thread before any money gets thrown around though.

Spoiler: (click to see content)
Re: Mugen Character Funding
#47  November 14, 2013, 02:34:29 am
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Yeah this is just brainstorming and tossing a few ideas at the moment
Re: Mugen Character Funding
#48  November 14, 2013, 02:49:46 am
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I still can't grasp why this topic was made.

Also, I don't get the Bryan hype either. Atleast Spike made sense.
Re: Mugen Character Funding
#49  November 14, 2013, 03:16:23 am
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Yeah this is just brainstorming and tossing a few ideas at the moment

I know, it's just that there was already talk of sending money to a middle man (not judging, just sayin!) without any spriters even having a say yet.
Re: Mugen Character Funding
#50  November 14, 2013, 03:58:29 am
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I still can't grasp why this topic was made.

Also, I don't get the Bryan hype either. Atleast Spike made sense.

it was made cause most of us are annoyed batman won. I love batman truly but theres decent versions out..
You'll fix chuchoryu ? Sounds like a plan. How about you code him from scratch instead ?
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Do you often run naked in the streets screaming "YOU STUPID ASS FAGGOT NIGGA BITCHES WHY YOU NO HELP ME WITH MY MATH HOMEWORK !!!!???!!!!"
Re: Maybe something like a donation pool?
#51  November 14, 2013, 07:12:51 am
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I really see no need for a financial middleman. Spriters can handle looking at their PayPal and updating a current donation amount. The only thing required is something to organize this kind of thing; no need for anyone to handle the money. As previously mentioned, a CotM nomination type deal would work well in this thread; and the results could be collected in the first post and stuff.

I would pay part for Brock, most definitely. That Swedish Murder Machine deserves representation. And I would love to code him!

^That's for Mature though mind you. I'm don't really want to do anything for Mature.
Get out.

@JM really? is there something special about Mature with CVS looking sprites and gameplay? And are you not one of the guys who could create the character by yourself ?
I want to code Mature, and for her sprites to match up with my Vice. I cannot sprite. That's pretty much it.
Re: Mugen Character Funding
#52  November 14, 2013, 07:23:09 am
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Jegus Chris, people. It's not that hard to save up $200. When I commissioned Sean for Bob Hoskins Mario, I set aside roughly $20 every week for about 10 weeks. Keep in mind that at the time I did this, my job was shit and I was making maybe a few bucks an hour over the state's minimum wage, and I still had living expenses to take care of, but I was able to eventually pull it off and now I have a bunch of BHM sprites sitting on my Hard Drive that I have to take a crack at when I finish my shitloads of other WIPs (yes I'm still working on Pupa, as well as a few surprises).

The idea of GBK trying to organize people to donate toward a project screams of nothing but ego. He doesn't want to do something for the good of the community, he simply wants a project that he can attach his name to and take credit for. He hasn't even consulted Seanaltly about this at all in the process, so all this project is trying to do is pressure, nay, coerce Sean into pulling him away from his own project to make something that he may not be interested in (in comparison, Sean's a big fan of the Super Mario Bros movie and ended up brainstorming most of the movelist on his own :o ).

In the end, this thread manages to do nothing but cheapen Sean's value as a human being, effectively turning him into a vending machine that spits out characters if you put money in it, and GBK should be ashamed of himself for that fact.
Last Edit: November 14, 2013, 07:31:46 am by Imposter Owen Wilson
Re: Mugen Character Funding
#53  November 14, 2013, 07:38:40 am
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If it would be only 2,3 or maybe 4 people and everyone of them donates as example 50 dollars to the spriter, no middleman would be needed indeed.

My idea was more based on the "small fishes can be a big swarm" idea though, the same thing we see having success every week on kickstarter.

The idea was based on the 21 voters for Bryan Fury and dividing the costs of "as example" 500 dollars for something good through 10, 20 or even 50 people if there would be so many mfg members interested to fund a character.

20 or 30 people can still just send their 5 or 10 bucks to the spriter directly, but in the long run..organizing is really easier through one single paypal account.

@Jango As always you are so very right with your assumptions About me and what i do, oh man i feel soo ashamed for bringing up the idea of crowdfunding Mugen characters. But why are you mentioning Sean so often when nobody else did?

The idea would be to get a list together of spriters who are interested to take commissions.

Re: Mugen Character Funding
#54  November 14, 2013, 07:43:10 am
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20 or 30 people can still just send their 5 or 10 bucks to the spriter directly, but in the long run..organizing is really easier through one single paypal account.
But it would still go to a single PayPal account; the spriter's, without a middleman?
Re: Mugen Character Funding
#55  November 14, 2013, 07:57:44 am
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If it would be only 2,3 or maybe 4 people and everyone of them donates as example 50 dollars to the spriter, no middleman would be needed indeed.
No middleman is needed at all. This can be easily accomplished by, as has been stated before, getting a willing spriter who is up to the task of spriting anything (good luck finding one of those) and donating directly into his account. Your involvement serves no purpose.

The idea was based on the 21 voters for Bryan Fury and dividing the costs of "as example" 500 dollars for something good through 10, 20 or even 50 people if there would be so many mfg members interested to fund a character.
And as has been state in the thread already, there wasn't some big upset that prevent Bryan Fury from winning. You know, some people accept that their favorite didn't win, shrug, and move on with their life. You, on the other hand, make a thread trying DESPERATELY to get it made.

20 or 30 people can still just send their 5 or 10 bucks to the spriter directly, but in the long run..organizing is really easier through one single paypal account.
And again, that paypal account should be the spriter's paypal account.

As always you are so very right with your assumptions About me and what i do, oh man i feel soo ashamed for bringing up the idea of crowdfunding Mugen characters. But why are you mentioning Sean so often when nobody else did?
Because... You started this thread in response to a Seanaltly poll not ending up in your favor? Not to mention in an earlier post, you mention that the holy trifecta of people involved in this project would be:

1) The Donators
2) The Spriters
3) YOU

Nowhere did you mention a coder, so if you were counting on the spriter to code as well, that narrows down the field quite a lot to, well, pretty much Sean.

The idea would be to get a list together of spriters who are interested to take commissions.
See the problem is that most of Guild's commission spriters are already heavily occupied. You would have to be ridiculously lucky to get one guy who is willing to sprite a full character that he may or may not like, and have to share equal credits with a dude who did nothing but tell OTHER PEOPLE to cough up $5. Did you even plan ahead who is even going to code this thing? Hell I can't think of anyone in the MUGEN community who is willing to have some guy with an over-inflated ego dump a bunch of sprites on him and say "here make a character out of this," no matter how much money you throw at him.

Spoiler: Otaku nitpicking (click to see content)
Re: Mugen Character Funding
#56  November 14, 2013, 09:32:30 am
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Who cares about Bryan? I thought Nina or Kazuya was popular than Bryan. That's why Kazuya has been more than any other chars.
I know that Jin is popular, but i don't mind after all.
Re: Mugen Character Funding
#57  November 14, 2013, 09:34:41 am
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I suggest that Jango will be the middleman or mantainer of any crowdfunding.

He is a very intelligent and reasonable person and clearly knows everything better than anyone else.


I am out of this thread and the idea.


ps: coders were mentioned by me on this very thread page, dumbass.
Re: Mugen Character Funding
#58  November 14, 2013, 10:32:28 am
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Everyone send me your money and I will personally go to Seanaltly's house and wop my wad of paypal cash in his face like Harry Enfield.

GBK, you mentioned coders like once (on page 2), and then went right back to talking about spriters and ignoring coders. This just goes to show that you can't keep your story straight and think that the coding is inconsequential. You can't even counter my accusations and resort to ad hominem and leaving the thread in a huff. I think it's safe to say that your posts alone basically showed any potential donators not to trust you has a "middle-man" (which as has been said is a waste of time since we can just donate to the spriters themselves and not have to funnel it through you).

Cheers.
Re: Mugen Character Funding
#59  November 14, 2013, 02:51:17 pm
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wow jango you made gbk quit the crowdfunding business. who will we send the money to now (so that person can then send it to the spriter). fucking asshole
Re: Mugen Character Funding
#60  November 14, 2013, 04:03:21 pm
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To be honest, it was a pretty interesting exchange of ideas until Jango came hounding on GBK.

It's sad to see this thread derailed.
Re: Mugen Character Funding
#61  November 14, 2013, 04:30:56 pm
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2muchdrama

The  middleman is unneeded but can act as an insurance/alternative in case the money is mishandled
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Put this on the profile of people who are known/wanted terrorists
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Re: Mugen Character Funding
#62  November 14, 2013, 04:46:30 pm
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More like the opposite, people who want to donate directly donate to the spriter. I didn't keep up of the whole topic but if this is mostly aimed at Sean, I'm pretty sure we can all trust him, not to mention we've done it before (when someone started commissioning him for something but couldn't finish the funding, and Sean posted about it, and everyone pitched in)
All this need is one poll to agree on a character, then we make sure enough people are interested in that character (some people might be willing to throw some bucks but then change their mind if it's a character they don't care for), and then we ask him, and then everyone pitches in. No middleman.
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Re: Mugen Character Funding
#63  November 14, 2013, 04:58:12 pm
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gbk polling ideas are good, this kind of thing wouldnt take a normal polling.

I mean there are so many people with so many diverse ideas that even if 20 people all want the same char, others wouldnt want that one and wouldnt pitch into it, and theres also the whole thing iwth sean not wanting to do some chars or prefering others.
Re: Mugen Character Funding
#64  November 14, 2013, 05:02:58 pm
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and felo (and I guess cvsnb) is already full for the time being.
Re: Mugen Character Funding
#65  November 14, 2013, 05:35:08 pm
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thing is, you need a coder AND a spriter in those cases, and it needs to be a coder that is willing to do something out of his comfort zone, since its still a paid job.
Re: Mugen Character Funding
#66  November 14, 2013, 05:54:52 pm
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being realistic just by making a sprite set free coders are gonna surface, the advantage of having a designated coder is that a good one can help come up witha  decent movelist in case the character is not a port (from a 3d or a style change).
Re: Mugen Character Funding
#67  November 14, 2013, 07:31:44 pm
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OK, so who is interested in donating some money for CvS Mature? No need to reach an amount or anything, just want to see the level of interest and stuff, because there is  (a spriter) interest, interest on a volunteer basis.

But c'mon this deserves money! Let's show support!!!
Re: Mugen Character Funding
#68  November 14, 2013, 08:20:09 pm
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To be honest, it was a pretty interesting exchange of ideas until Jango came hounding on GBK.

It's sad to see this thread derailed.
Most of my arguments were actually repeated from other people, so in reality, you should blame GBK for thinking that I was the only one opposed to the idea. Goddammit walt, how many MUGEN waifus do you have?

* Imposter Owen Wilson cries into Jmorphman's lap.

being realistic just by making a sprite set free coders are gonna surface, the advantage of having a designated coder is that a good one can help come up witha  decent movelist in case the character is not a port (from a 3d or a style change).
Exactly. Hence why I'm happy with how Sean is a SMB movie fan so he could help out with that. And on a side note, a free spriteset could potentially lead to DrKelexo/The_None treatment, so I guess if you want to see Jack Fury shit out Carl Winslow's head as a projectile whilst a Wilhelm scream plays, then by all means wop your wad on the counter.

OK, so who is interested in donating some money for CvS Mature? No need to reach an amount or anything, just want to see the level of interest and stuff, because there is  (a spriter) interest, interest on a volunteer basis.

But c'mon this deserves money! Let's show support!!!
I'm game.
Re: Mugen Character Funding
#69  November 14, 2013, 08:33:57 pm
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OK, so who is interested in donating some money for CvS Mature? No need to reach an amount or anything, just want to see the level of interest and stuff, because there is  (a spriter) interest, interest on a volunteer basis.

But c'mon this deserves money! Let's show support!!!

mature has sprites, janis luciani does not. let's get this ball rolling
Re: Mugen Character Funding
#70  November 14, 2013, 08:38:06 pm
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Sorry Jmorphman, MelvanaInChains has me sold on the concept of me throwing money at a character I've never heard of from a game I never played.
Re: Mugen Character Funding
#71  November 15, 2013, 12:45:16 am
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hey if he gets to say 'donate for this character' so can i. quit bein a party pooper
Re: Mugen Character Funding
#72  November 15, 2013, 12:52:33 am
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That was like the most brutally passive aggressive post I've seen in awhile haha
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Put this on the profile of people who are known/wanted terrorists
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Re: Mugen Character Funding
#73  November 15, 2013, 12:57:03 am
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that's owen wilson for you

i guess starring in the wedding crashers will make you pretty bitter

SNT

Re: Mugen Character Funding
#74  November 15, 2013, 12:57:47 am
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Quote
CVS Mature
She needs what, four more sprites to make a complete character?  I'd understand someone paying to spritepack a whole new character, but unless I'm mistaken Mature only needs that one spin move, everything else has already been done for like ages.  This doesn't need money as much as it just needs one spriter with one spare afternoon to pull their finger out.
If you're hosting your stuff on 4Shared, you might as well not release it at all.
Last Edit: November 15, 2013, 01:15:40 am by SNT
Re: Mugen Character Funding
#75  November 15, 2013, 01:05:16 am
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Mature is lame, but if a close friend really wanted her to be sprited I'd be willing to part with the money.
Re: Mugen Character Funding
#76  November 15, 2013, 02:15:56 am
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I would rather put my money towards spriting original characters or comic/cartoon/movie characters that were never ported to sprite form and would be interesting to play with.

agreed 200%

IMO, problem with choices like Mature or other previously released characters (whatever the spriting style) is it won't satisfy most people's wishes, versus an original sprited character
great idea nonetheless, i'd be in
Re: Mugen Character Funding
#77  November 15, 2013, 02:44:59 am
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IMO, problem with choices like Mature or other previously released characters (whatever the spriting style) is it won't satisfy most people's wishes, versus an original sprited character
nothing will satisfy everybody's wishes, be it mature, bryan or original the hedgehog, that's why funding these things is optional and there could easily be more than one crowdfunding thing going on at the same time
Re: Mugen Character Funding
#78  November 15, 2013, 02:57:15 am
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keyword was "most" people's...
and you honestly think Mature would have an equal amount of funding than a completely original sprited non-previously released character ?
Re: Mugen Character Funding
#79  November 15, 2013, 03:03:21 am
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Do you honestly think that more people would rather fund an artist's unheard of original character instead of a well known established character with an actual fan-base (take Juri for example)?
Re: Mugen Character Funding
#80  November 15, 2013, 03:14:32 am
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i would take original sprited work like say Borghi's (edit: or Sean's) over a Mature for example, considering there have been several versions Mature released on mugen... i would assume good original work would override any known content after 10+ years of mugen releases, yes
Re: Mugen Character Funding
#81  November 15, 2013, 03:15:24 am
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and you honestly think Mature would have an equal amount of funding than a completely original sprited non-previously released character ?
honestly, no, because mature would borrow heavily from cvs vice, so she would require less work, and would therefore require less funding. having said that, most people would rather fund something they're familiar with instead of an original character. you'd have to be crazy to think it's the other way around
Re: Mugen Character Funding
#82  November 15, 2013, 03:26:32 am
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guess i'm crazy

and i wasn't making the Mature funding comparison based on required sprite work, but more on the novelty of having something completely new (fresh) versus something having strong similarities to content already done in the past: when there's a new version released of a known character, most of the time people tend to focus on the gameplay of said new character (compared to previous ones)...a completely original sprited character will draw extra attention first because of the sprites, imo, which is the focus of the funding idea

but yeah, guess i'm biased on the subject because personal taste
Re: Mugen Character Funding
#83  November 15, 2013, 03:31:22 am
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People prefer familiar characters mainly because there's more assurance that something they will like will come out of it. It's not just this way with MUGEN, it's pretty much reality.

it's because they are already content with what they have done, mugen is not a paying job so as long as the charcter works for a creator that's enough; one's persons crouching while running is another person's change it to pots style.

DW

Re: Mugen Character Funding
#84  November 15, 2013, 03:45:18 am
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OK, so who is interested in donating some money for CvS Mature? No need to reach an amount or anything, just want to see the level of interest and stuff, because there is  (a spriter) interest, interest on a volunteer basis.

But c'mon this deserves money! Let's show support!!!

Meh... While I do like Mature, I don't like her that much. Though, it's something you really want and that alone would have me pitch in. So, sure I'd pitch in like 10-15 dollars. Although in contrast...what's up with this...?

Quote
CVS Mature
She needs what, four more sprites to make a complete character?  I'd understand someone paying to spritepack a whole new character, but unless I'm mistaken Mature only needs that one spin move, everything else has already been done for like ages.  This doesn't need money as much as it just needs one spriter with one spare afternoon to pull their finger out.

If what he says is true, then you actually wouldn't have to raise up much. While it may not need money, it's looks as if no one is really willing to put their free time into it. If that be the case, money can help seal the deal. Either way, yeah JMM, I'll pitch in.
Re: Mugen Character Funding
#85  November 15, 2013, 05:23:45 am
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That was like the most brutally passive aggressive post I've seen in awhile haha
It's very important to be as douchey and passive aggressive as possible, when confronted by someone trying to rouse up interest in a character you do not like.

She needs what, four more sprites to make a complete character?  I'd understand someone paying to spritepack a whole new character, but unless I'm mistaken Mature only needs that one spin move, everything else has already been done for like ages.  This doesn't need money as much as it just needs one spriter with one spare afternoon to pull their finger out.
You're mistaken; the "CvS Mature" sprite sheet out there is pretty awful, just a bunch of Vice sprites with one, unchanging head of Mature pasted on top of each sprite. The result is... off-putting, to say the least. It looks really bad and doesn't have any of Mature's moves, and since she's not just a Ryu/Ken straight headswap but only shares gethits and a few normals with Vice, it means she's missing most everything. There was also a CvS Mature character made using that sheet, and the Mature moves used KoF sprites. Which was pretty damn weird and bad looking.

But I want to reiterate that this whole thing is optional; there's interest in doing Mature, for free. I just figured, why not try out this whole crowdfunding thing in this thread, on a small scale, and also because the spriter deserves some money for all that work!
Re: Mugen Character Funding
#86  November 15, 2013, 05:41:31 am
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Re: Mugen Character Funding
#87  November 15, 2013, 05:47:50 am
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That was like the most brutally passive aggressive post I've seen in awhile haha
It's very important to be as douchey and passive aggressive as possible, when confronted by someone trying to rouse up interest in a character you do not like.

She needs what, four more sprites to make a complete character?  I'd understand someone paying to spritepack a whole new character, but unless I'm mistaken Mature only needs that one spin move, everything else has already been done for like ages.  This doesn't need money as much as it just needs one spriter with one spare afternoon to pull their finger out.
You're mistaken; the "CvS Mature" sprite sheet out there is pretty awful, just a bunch of Vice sprites with one, unchanging head of Mature pasted on top of each sprite. The result is... off-putting, to say the least. It looks really bad and doesn't have any of Mature's moves, and since she's not just a Ryu/Ken straight headswap but only shares gethits and a few normals with Vice, it means she's missing most everything. There was also a CvS Mature character made using that sheet, and the Mature moves used KoF sprites. Which was pretty damn weird and bad looking.

But I want to reiterate that this whole thing is optional; there's interest in doing Mature, for free. I just figured, why not try out this whole crowdfunding thing in this thread, on a small scale, and also because the spriter deserves some money for all that work!
you are doing right, you are showing there is already a coder willing to go for mature. now what's wrong with felo's hint of alt outfirt mature. I ahve this bad feeling that he meant kof style sprites, but if it's cvs style and goes for a reasonable price is it ok for you ? we should also seesome sprites of what the guy has already done
Re: Mugen Character Funding
#88  November 15, 2013, 05:52:47 am
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Spoiler: I don't know why I'm spoiling this, nor why I was being so damn coy about the whole thing (click to see content)
Re: Mugen Character Funding
#89  November 15, 2013, 12:01:35 pm
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Re: Mugen Character Funding
#90  November 15, 2013, 02:56:09 pm
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While I agree that this is an interesting discussion (passive aggressive pie slinging aside), it does seem more than a little backwards to have any money change hands before anyone has offered to actually do the work. I don't think GBK has any ulterior motive,  but let's not put the carriage before the horse here. I think it's been made clear that there is merit to the idea, but I think that's about as far as the conversation can go without an interested artist being part of it. Of course I don't think it should be up to the artist to fish for donations exactly, but I think it makes sense to move the discussion into more concrete territory, ie gathering interest/people/money for a specific project and a specific artist.

My 2 cents anyway.
Re: Mugen Character Funding
#91  November 15, 2013, 03:50:58 pm
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Hm... You know, that sounds like what was done in the Sprite projects section, extension request topic. So, here's a suggestion.
If someone is interested in a character, he creates a topic. Then people who are interested come in and say they'd pitch in. And then when there's enough people, the guy who started the topic (for example) starts looking for a spriter who would be interested -- or maybe if a spriter is already interested, he can post directly in the topic. And then the people in the thread do their donation.
A spriter could also create a topic by himself saying he'd be willing to sprite this character if enough people can join.
Rinse and repeat everytime someone comes up with a new character.

Obviously this presents a giant risk of many people just starting a new topic for whatever character they think of, and no one joining in, not to mention the risk of having thousands of requests for just a few spriters willing to do it... But if this "donation pool" is going to become a thing, that seems to be the most straightforward option I can think of, especially considering it's modeled after something we already do in another place.

This could go to the Sprite projects section, with topics being created with a "[Commission pool]" tag in the title, and there could be a single topic summing up the pools waiting for people and the pools already big enough to be looking for a spriter... That summary topic should probably include a list of spriters who are generally willing to go for this kind of projects, and specify if the person is available at the moment, so we'd know to cool down with suggestion storms when no one is free...
In other words, that much more work for moderation. But that's the most viable way I see it happening.
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Last Edit: November 15, 2013, 03:58:52 pm by DKDC
Re: Mugen Character Funding
#92  November 15, 2013, 06:37:35 pm
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Hm... You know, that sounds like what was done in the Sprite projects section, extension request topic. So, here's a suggestion.
If someone is interested in a character, he creates a topic. Then people who are interested come in and say they'd pitch in. And then when there's enough people, the guy who started the topic (for example) starts looking for a spriter who would be interested -- or maybe if a spriter is already interested, he can post directly in the topic. And then the people in the thread do their donation.
A spriter could also create a topic by himself saying he'd be willing to sprite this character if enough people can join.
Rinse and repeat everytime someone comes up with a new character.

Obviously this presents a giant risk of many people just starting a new topic for whatever character they think of, and no one joining in, not to mention the risk of having thousands of requests for just a few spriters willing to do it... But if this "donation pool" is going to become a thing, that seems to be the most straightforward option I can think of, especially considering it's modeled after something we already do in another place.

This could go to the Sprite projects section, with topics being created with a "[Commission pool]" tag in the title, and there could be a single topic summing up the pools waiting for people and the pools already big enough to be looking for a spriter... That summary topic should probably include a list of spriters who are generally willing to go for this kind of projects, and specify if the person is available at the moment, so we'd know to cool down with suggestion storms when no one is free...
In other words, that much more work for moderation. But that's the most viable way I see it happening.


even if you have , lets say, 20 people wanting a character, and spriter A and spriter B show up both wanting the bounty , you never know if said 20 people would be okay with A or B, or even neither.

Hypothetically you can have 20 willing to do it and only 2 willing to pay  the specific spriter A.
theres a ton of implications that are based off good will and professionalism, and considering some things we have seen with comissions before even around here, you would soon get things like spriters that take the bounty and then lose interest or decide they want more money, or even spriters that start avoiding delivering  and then whine about the customers. 

Theres a ton on this whole thing that is based on good will between people and that has only been accchieved community wise with a couple of persons. Sean with his massive body of work and balth . Afaicr
Re: Mugen Character Funding
#93  November 17, 2013, 01:45:22 am
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so I came up with something (hopefully) alot of us would be willing to contribute for how about Darth vader? hed fit in the world universe and hes a cult character from our childhoods. mostly anyway. Anyone else up? Im willing to throw some money in if you guys are.
You'll fix chuchoryu ? Sounds like a plan. How about you code him from scratch instead ?
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Re: Mugen Character Funding
#94  November 17, 2013, 02:07:13 am
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that's kind of moot if you don't know the required amount of money let alone a spriter willing to make him
Re: Mugen Character Funding
#95  November 17, 2013, 02:13:22 am
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true I was trying to start from the base though if we could all agree on something we could put how much we are willing to all donate tally it up and then post a thread for it and see if a spriter wants to take it.
You'll fix chuchoryu ? Sounds like a plan. How about you code him from scratch instead ?
Star Fucker said:
Do you often run naked in the streets screaming "YOU STUPID ASS FAGGOT NIGGA BITCHES WHY YOU NO HELP ME WITH MY MATH HOMEWORK !!!!???!!!!"
Re: Mugen Character Funding
#96  November 17, 2013, 02:38:15 am
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not everybody's going to agree on darth vader. not everybody's going to agree on anything, really. i would assume darth vader is popular enough to have several people funding the character. the order of action you suggest isn't practical, wouldn't it be better to talk with someone that might be willing to do it, get a clear amount on required money and then get things going
Re: Mugen Character Funding
#97  November 17, 2013, 02:42:57 am
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Why does everyone even need to agree?  Why are we under the delusion that everyone is gonna come together and sing kumbaya and all of the spriters on MFG are gonna suddenly turn into human factories who shit out every single character everyone wants?  Ideally it should work like Seanaltly did Haggar where someone commissioned him to do a sprite, and because people wanted to see him make a full Haggar people who were interested got together and helped Garuda with the commission money.  Although I guess it's pretty cool that things like that guy commissioning him to do that Tenchu character happened, but a complete 100% consensus is not necessary if you have one or two people willing to part with money and a spriter interested in doing it.
Re: Mugen Character Funding
#98  November 17, 2013, 03:33:57 am
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not everybody's going to agree on darth vader. not everybody's going to agree on anything, really. i would assume darth vader is popular enough to have several people funding the character. the order of action you suggest isn't practical, wouldn't it be better to talk with someone that might be willing to do it, get a clear amount on required money and then get things going

I suppose that does make some sense. I was just trying to suggest something alot of ppl might like?
You'll fix chuchoryu ? Sounds like a plan. How about you code him from scratch instead ?
Star Fucker said:
Do you often run naked in the streets screaming "YOU STUPID ASS FAGGOT NIGGA BITCHES WHY YOU NO HELP ME WITH MY MATH HOMEWORK !!!!???!!!!"
Re: Mugen Character Funding
#99  November 17, 2013, 09:49:50 am
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^^ what pusha2 wrote.

I just can't stay silent, reading your posts. You guys don't have experience with funding something together. You talk about possible problems, about how important or not important it is that someone agrees or not. Let me give you guys another short wave of hints how it can be done.


Make one thread with the first post being for suggested characters someone funded already.
It could look like

Currently in the pot and available:
15 dollars by Germanbaraka sent on the 17th November - mentioned they can be used for any character
50 dollars by Iced, sent on the 17th November - mentioned they are only for KOF characters suggested by others
10 dollars by Tiltin sent on the 17th November - available for any characters commissioned to spriter baltseancvsfel666


Darth Vader - suggested by MFGUser666 and funded with 30 dollars to the Crowdfunding PayPal account on November 17
funded also by
mfguser456 with 20 dollars on November 18
mfguser209 with 70 dollars on november 20
looking for a spriter who is interested to create darth vader and can estimate how expensive the spriting would be


That example is not flawless and only possible if there would be a pool of spriters and - if needed - coders who are interested in taking such commissions. Also needed would be that the funding people are agreeing that a middleman does the talk with the artists. It would be like on a marketplace where the best offer gets the funding. The initial target of the crowdfuning would be to get characters or other mugen related developments done which would not be made in the foreseeable future without commissioning someone. They are not there to support someone who wanted to make character x anyway. they are commissioned work.

The benefit would be there to the whole mugen community which could get more characters based on new sprites, funded by the mugen community itself. I am sure there are a lot of coders here on mfg who would love to work on those characters and also people who could create the additional soundeffects, voices and what else is needed to develope a complete character.
Re: Mugen Character Funding
#100  November 17, 2013, 10:26:46 am
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I've already explained why that doesn't work, and I don't feel like repeating it, so here's my response: Shut the fuck up.

     Posted: November 17, 2013, 10:28:22 am
Also this
I am out of this thread and the idea.
You are terrible at keeping promises.
Re: Mugen Character Funding
#101  November 17, 2013, 02:32:02 pm
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That post is way too unnecessarily hostile. I know you have history with GBK but you can still talk to him on a more respectable manner.
Re: Mugen Character Funding
#102  November 17, 2013, 02:47:43 pm
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^^ what pusha2 wrote.

I just can't stay silent, reading your posts. You guys don't have experience with funding something together. You talk about possible problems, about how important or not important it is that someone agrees or not. Let me give you guys another short wave of hints how it can be done.


Make one thread with the first post being for suggested characters someone funded already.
It could look like

Currently in the pot and available:
15 dollars by Germanbaraka sent on the 17th November - mentioned they can be used for any character
50 dollars by Iced, sent on the 17th November - mentioned they are only for KOF characters suggested by others
10 dollars by Tiltin sent on the 17th November - available for any characters commissioned to spriter baltseancvsfel666


Darth Vader - suggested by MFGUser666 and funded with 30 dollars to the Crowdfunding PayPal account on November 17
funded also by
mfguser456 with 20 dollars on November 18
mfguser209 with 70 dollars on november 20
looking for a spriter who is interested to create darth vader and can estimate how expensive the spriting would be


That example is not flawless and only possible if there would be a pool of spriters and - if needed - coders who are interested in taking such commissions. Also needed would be that the funding people are agreeing that a middleman does the talk with the artists. It would be like on a marketplace where the best offer gets the funding. The initial target of the crowdfuning would be to get characters or other mugen related developments done which would not be made in the foreseeable future without commissioning someone. They are not there to support someone who wanted to make character x anyway. they are commissioned work.

The benefit would be there to the whole mugen community which could get more characters based on new sprites, funded by the mugen community itself. I am sure there are a lot of coders here on mfg who would love to work on those characters and also people who could create the additional soundeffects, voices and what else is needed to develope a complete character.

im sorry gbk but you are the one without experience in funding coding/spriting projects, it doesnt really work that way, you are assuming there would be people willing to code and sprite if a bounty is put out there, when you forget that the person you get to do the bounty might not be able to do it, or willing to actually finish it.
You cant also setup rules on what people should aim or have a initial target for, thats their money and taste speaking, not rules you can set up straight out of the door.
Just tomorrow someone might crowdfund for pots to finish Demitri, and a lot of people might want that to happen, but that doesnt mean its a wrong thing to do because its not a original character or that anyone will be able to find Pots to do it.

In these coding spriting projects it should work like this

Gbk says " I Found a spriter willing to do Roshi for 300 bucks, I have put 20 bucks in myself, who else wants to tag in?"
Instead of "I have 20 bucks in for a roshi." Because then the ceiling is absurd and most people that at first would pitch in 20 30 bucks will get tired of waiting. It could theoretically never get made, but imagine it has a 300 bounty, a spriter shows up, and suddenly half the people that claimed it are no longer interested because it took too long or they dont like that specific spriter, or maybe they drank too much that month and need the money for bills, whatever.
Re: Mugen Character Funding
#103  November 17, 2013, 11:08:42 pm
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I was expecting another mk chars in chicken suits reference, I am dissapoint Iced.
You'll fix chuchoryu ? Sounds like a plan. How about you code him from scratch instead ?
Star Fucker said:
Do you often run naked in the streets screaming "YOU STUPID ASS FAGGOT NIGGA BITCHES WHY YOU NO HELP ME WITH MY MATH HOMEWORK !!!!???!!!!"