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Umezono's MUGEN Character Reviews (latest: October COTM candidates!) (Read 62188 times)

Started by Umezono, January 10, 2014, 05:44:48 am
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Re: Umezono's MUGEN Character Reviews (latest: Ash by Quickfist and Chazzanova)
#21  January 14, 2014, 08:01:41 pm
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@AmidbimA:



Legendary Terry Bogard by Demonkai is an edit of CVS Terry Bogard. I know little else about the creation. The guy who made him credits various (in)famous IMT creators like Sabaki, Acey, Vyn, Scar and Reza as major influences on coding so if you don't like their works I'd suggest staying away already. To start things off why the ever loving fuck is this character's rar file 66 mb large?? The character itself is not very flashy at all, except for the supers, so at first I couldn't figure out what's in him that warrants this huge amount of space. Then I gave myself a good slap in the face and looked through his files and what do you know, a 60.4 mb sff rounded off with a 45.5 mb SND file for good measure. Checking out the character I could not figure out what warranted such a huge sound file, it just uses his regular voice and some basic albeit loud sfx. Badly optimized SND files are the antichrist. As for the SFF, I took a handy look at the readme to confirm my suspicion; there are 14 supers (has has two "revenge level 4" supers) for this Terry, and a ton of updated specials, so that really nullifies my drive to do my prior review format of going through each special and super. With all these supers he has tacked on tons of flashy, epileptic super fx. Not to mention he was already going for bold POTS/CVS hitsparks on everything anyway. Even his stance contains a constant flash of lightning. (btw the stance looks awkward and horrible.) It flashes constantly at 2 second intervals and is enough to drive anyone crazy. In Demonkai's words "Take a back seat if you are NOT into this kind of high octane gameplay." Well that's one way to put it buddy.

This character epitomizes unneeded bloat, the first thing that tipped me off that this character's gameplay was gonna have issues was the shoutout to Reza in the readme: "Thanks on exposing me to the coding methods to MVC2 style air combos." Let me clue you in tho this Terry's air combos are so wonky and messy it is the furthest thing from mvc2 style I can think of. The fact he put a launcher and air combos on a character like this without completely overhauling its system is a bad sign. There is a huge mishmash of different things here: charging, air dash, a special super cancelling system, huge amounts of chaining on everything, parries, an alpha counter, an "aggressive" counter which is an alpha counter that costs power, ex guard cancels, hop back and sidestep, a shitton of rolls (includes dodge rolls, auto quick dodge rolls, and tech safe dodge rolls), and of course his desperation moves which are unblockable and pretty much OHKO. There is no end to the random shit he stuffed into this character's gameplay, which is without rhyme or reason.

Some more goodies: The hitboxes for his basics and command moves are all wacked out. His regular standing clsns are awful, a box for his head, a box for his torso and a box for lower body and legs (???) Turn on the csln viewer and it's like a circus of odd placement. What baffles me the most is his c. HK, which for some reason has a hit box where his leg joins his pelvis, and then one on his shoe. In between, it is blue. What the fuck is the point of that lol? Is his sweep supposed to whiff close? The gap is so small it doesn't really miss close on anybody but really small characters. So I'm pretty sure it wasn't intentional. If any of this was they should do good to heed Arpa's advice: functionality > realism. One box for his body prob couldve fixed may of the strange issues he has when walking and throwing out basics. The clsns are so awful even for me, who knows jack shit about a hitbox from a shoebox. They are even worse on the supers, his qcfx2 + MP has the hotboxes appear AFTER the super fx has disappeared. They flash so quickly and in random places it was enough to give me epilepsy.

To humor the intentions of Demonkai I spent some time in both practice and watch mode with Legendary Bogard. It appears his main purpose is to be one of those god characters you might remember from a time when people in the MUGEN community weren't mid-30s and had children. There are many gameplay choices I question in this character: For example, in the corner he can chain 11 light punches in a row on bigger characters, and 6 on shorter (For reference I tried it on Nyankoro's Hikaru.) This means he can pressure you on block with 6-11 completely safe hits and you have absolutely no recourse. For some reason his light power wave is not a fireball, it will just hit directly in front of you. Its called "ground wave." This is not so much a problem as it is just an interesting design choice. He can also throw out his medium wave and his heavy at the same time, which I'm not sure is accurate to anything but sure as hell very powerful. The crack shoot can be cancelled into itself, which is useful to look funny when you are doing his "air combos." He has charge move specials/supers and all sorts of garbage that he didn't need. For example, he's got an autocombo on reverse dp + p which could have served as a better combo tool if it didn't knock away/wall bounce regardless of strength, which can throw you off your combo game. Many of his moves come out instantly so everything seems to chain into eachother. It gets to the point where you can win arcade and survival mode matches by simply mashing your face into the keyboard. There's also damage issues: whereas his regular specials do okay or sometimes weak damage, his supers do some straight Jurassic Park damage.

I'll end on the supers note, cause dear god the supers lol. Mega random super BG on all of them to start and tons of lifted fx: He apparently took super bg explosion effects from Loganir's Cyclops if that puts anything in perspective about how this character will look in action. The actual effects are massive and everywhere which fully explains that bloated sff. His level 1 super buster wolf lagged my computer lol. His qcfx2+mk is fucking hilarious cause its a sideway rising tackle that resembles cammy's cannon spike, and also accurately describes the design ethic of Legendary Terry. Want a shitton of supers on you character? Its possible! Just turn one move on its side and make it go horizontal instead of vertical! Instant new and original super! His air super which is a dive kick to start will not connect with the enemy midair no matter how many times I tried, in fact at one point I started it with a basic and comboed into it and he went straight through the characters gethit sprite, LOL. I'm sure more time in the combo lab will fix this but it seems the major functionality of that move would to just be to jump up and do it on your opponent standalone. If it actually works. There are a ton of other supers but they all look and function largely the same. It was a good try Demonkai. I give you props for constantly updating and trying to fix bugs and make his tech more professional- but the character just suffers from too many fundamental flaws.

Download Link: https://skydrive.live.com/?cid=643aa89b3cbbba2c&id=643AA89B3CBBBA2C%21298&authkey=!AJ2zfF2KDLAF_8k

Presentation: 1.5/5

Sprites/Graphics: 3/5

Sounds: 3/5

Gameplay: 2/5

AI: 2/5

Overall: 2.3/5
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Last Edit: December 15, 2014, 03:32:32 am by Umezono
Re: Umezono's MUGEN Character Reviews (latest: Ash by Quickfist and Chazzanova)
#22  January 14, 2014, 08:04:29 pm
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Damn, 66MB? No way I'm wasting time on that :P
Re: Umezono's MUGEN Character Reviews (latest: Legendary Terry Bogard by Demonkai)
#23  January 14, 2014, 10:21:33 pm
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Don't let Demonkai see this review or he'll claim you editted his Terry to be shitty just to piss him off, among other things.


Oh yea, you should consider putting up some shots to better explain stuff.
Re: Umezono's MUGEN Character Reviews (latest: Legendary Terry Bogard by Demonkai)
#24  January 14, 2014, 10:45:12 pm
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Don't let Demonkai see this review or he'll claim you editted his Terry to be shitty just to piss him off, among other things.

Or he'll just make a video of his bloated Terry's AI completely owning your AI-less character and then later state that you suck as an author because your AI was weak compared to his.

Anyway, you forgot to mention that his Terry's air combos use MvC-esque zig-zag chaining, while his ground combos use SF chaining rules for whatever reason, unless he changed that since I last bothered with the character.


Re: Umezono's MUGEN Character Reviews (latest: Legendary Terry Bogard by Demonkai)
#25  January 15, 2014, 01:41:36 am
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@Ricepigeon: good catch , will edit in and credit you. The zigzag thing was just so obvious to me I forgot to realize it clashes against the rest of his system.

@Darkflare: sure. Next review I will take some shots.

     Posted: January 15, 2014, 01:54:55 am
Edit: should also mention his AI gets 2/5 cause its unfairly aggressive when considering how it parries fucking everything
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Re: Umezono's MUGEN Character Reviews (latest: Legendary Terry Bogard by Demonkai)
#26  January 15, 2014, 02:25:04 am
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I could beat Terry's AI in my sleep if he didn't have excessive invicibility frames and all of his moves but one weren't so bloody safe.

That said, I would disregard AI when reviewing a character since it actually isn't that important or at least not give it it's own score.
Re: Umezono's MUGEN Character Reviews (latest: Legendary Terry Bogard by Demonkai)
#27  January 15, 2014, 02:28:28 am
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these reviews need screenshots. good job
Re: Umezono's MUGEN Character Reviews (latest: Legendary Terry Bogard by Demonkai)
#28  January 15, 2014, 02:38:37 am
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Speaking of reviews, Titiln didn't you used to review mugen characters?
Re: Umezono's MUGEN Character Reviews (latest: Legendary Terry Bogard by Demonkai)
#29  January 15, 2014, 02:43:03 am
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yeah but they're nowhere as useful as these reviews
Re: Umezono's MUGEN Character Reviews (latest: Legendary Terry Bogard by Demonkai)
#30  January 15, 2014, 02:44:37 am
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Speaking of reviews, Titiln didn't you used to review mugen characters?
He could be considered an influence for mine, even though his are much shorter. I like what he did which rather than making it all dry feedback on things he more pointed out interesting and/or flawed things you could do with the system and tech each char had. SO I decided I would do something like that but far more comprehensive.

these reviews need screenshots. good job
Yeah, I'm kinda cringing now looking back since its just a lot of text. Will def include screenshots on all subsequent reviews.

I could beat Terry's AI in my sleep if he didn't have excessive invicibility frames and all of his moves but one weren't so bloody safe.

That said, I would disregard AI when reviewing a character since it actually isn't that important or at least not give it it's own score.
I was thinking about this too. Giving AI its own score seems kind of counterintuitive. Can anyone give me any other ideas on another metric? I will go back and update the scores on Luke, Ash and Terry to fit.
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Re: Umezono's MUGEN Character Reviews (latest: Legendary Terry Bogard by Demonkai)
#31  January 15, 2014, 02:53:22 am
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Re: Umezono's MUGEN Character Reviews (latest: Legendary Terry Bogard by Demonkai)
#32  January 15, 2014, 02:58:04 am
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what about Creativity score instead of an AI score?
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Re: Umezono's MUGEN Character Reviews (latest: Legendary Terry Bogard by Demonkai)
#33  January 15, 2014, 02:59:23 am
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I was thinking about this too. Giving AI its own score seems kind of counterintuitive. Can anyone give me any other ideas on another metric? I will go back and update the scores on Luke, Ash and Terry to fit.

I would say controls and "balance" but I suppose that could go under gameplay.

As for AI, you could give it a passing mention like "This character's AI is pretty X, so you should try to play more Y.", "This AI likes to use Z so it tends to fall for moves like W." or "This character has no AI, so you'll have to try for yourself to see what he/she can do."
Re: Umezono's MUGEN Character Reviews (latest: Legendary Terry Bogard by Demonkai)
#34  January 15, 2014, 03:00:55 am
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what about Creativity score instead of an AI score?
Nah. I don't think the AI score needs a replacement. If the character is creative, it should be mentioned within the actual review itself rather than by an arbitrary number.
Spoiler, click to toggle visibilty
Is finding MUGEN to be more enjoyable to play when you're not wearing clothes an underrated opinion?
Re: Umezono's MUGEN Character Reviews (latest: Legendary Terry Bogard by Demonkai)
#35  January 15, 2014, 03:02:55 am
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what about Creativity score instead of an AI score?
Creativity is an iffy factor. If you are trying to make a source accurate character, it's not creative therefore your score is being brought down for no good reason at all.

it's because they are already content with what they have done, mugen is not a paying job so as long as the charcter works for a creator that's enough; one's persons crouching while running is another person's change it to pots style.
Re: Umezono's MUGEN Character Reviews (latest: Legendary Terry Bogard by Demonkai)
#36  January 15, 2014, 03:03:32 am
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i see what u mean....i'd be PISSED if someone gave me a 1 out of 5 for that. LOL
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Re: Umezono's MUGEN Character Reviews (latest: Legendary Terry Bogard by Demonkai)
#37  January 15, 2014, 03:05:24 am
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i think people should care more about the actual review than the numbers
Re: Umezono's MUGEN Character Reviews (latest: Legendary Terry Bogard by Demonkai)
#38  January 15, 2014, 03:08:13 am
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I was thinking about this too. Giving AI its own score seems kind of counterintuitive. Can anyone give me any other ideas on another metric? I will go back and update the scores on Luke, Ash and Terry to fit.

I would say controls and "balance" but I suppose that could go under gameplay.

As for AI, you could give it a passing mention like "This character's AI is pretty X, so you should try to play more Y.", "This AI likes to use Z so it tends to fall for moves like W." or "This character has no AI, so you'll have to try for yourself to see what he/she can do."
Being someone who does a lot of MUGEN AI streams, I can usually go on at length about AI, but I felt people didn't really want to hear about it. However, I still needed 5 different metrics for my reviews for my overall to work right, so I included AI anyways and kept my comments from none to a minimum. I would be down to replace the number but explain the AI in some detail within the review- if a better alternative can be named. Balance is probably something I would group in with gameplay, so I'm not too sure on that one.

what about Creativity score instead of an AI score?
Nah. I don't think the AI score needs a replacement. If the character is creative, it should be mentioned within the actual review itself rather than by an arbitrary number.
Spoiler, click to toggle visibilty
It's silly but doesn't need a replacement????

Xan pls I am conflicted :(((

what about Creativity score instead of an AI score?
Creativity is something I factor into the "presentation" score, which kind of ranks how well things are tied together in the final product.

(and overall is just the average of the scores)

i think people should care more about the actual review than the numbers

what about Creativity score instead of an AI score?
Creativity is an iffy factor. If you are trying to make a source accurate character, it's not creative therefore your score is being brought down for no good reason at all.

Solid points from the both of you lol. I guess I was a little petty with the sound score on Ash huh LOL (though it was mostly a joke.)

If nobody can think of something better than AI I'll prob just keep it for now.

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Re: Umezono's MUGEN Character Reviews (latest: Legendary Terry Bogard by Demonkai)
#39  January 15, 2014, 03:19:07 am
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Why not have Creativity for Custom characters and Accuracy for source accurate characters?
Re: Umezono's MUGEN Character Reviews (latest: Legendary Terry Bogard by Demonkai)
#40  January 15, 2014, 03:19:59 am
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I would do that if I felt comfortable rating source accuracy, which I do not, I could always ask Arpa though hahaha
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