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HDBZ derail about insults (Read 7912 times)

Started by Titiln, July 13, 2014, 06:59:08 pm
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Re: HDBZ derail about insults
#41  July 16, 2014, 12:00:12 am
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:kappa:

You're going to ignore the context then. Gotcha. Enjoy your half truth.
The problem is that you're looking at two different contexts. Let's see if I got this right.

YOU: Context is that it's a twitch.tv chat so naturally it has in-jokes.
ME: Context is that it's a live streaming promotion of a video game that's trying to get exposure.

I'm not saying that you're wrong to think that way, but I'm saying that the context that people are arguing about is different than what you're thinking of.
Who are you to question his intent? If that's what he said his intention was "repeatedly" why would you doubt it or try to paint it in a different light?
I can question his intent if what he says contradicts what happened.
Re: HDBZ derail about insults
#42  July 16, 2014, 12:11:54 am
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yeah so Im with walt on this expecting alot out of twitch chat is silly however I alredy talked to iced and @walt its more involved than just twitch chat if it was just twitch chat he would of got a slap on the wrist is how I took it? This was like the final straw in a sense.
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Re: HDBZ derail about insults
#43  July 16, 2014, 12:20:50 am
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YOU: Context is that it's a twitch.tv chat so naturally it has in-jokes.
ME: Context is that it's a live streaming promotion of a video game that's trying to get exposure.
Except the twitch context outweighs the live promotion one by a landslide. You WILL get kappa jokes on a twitch stream all the time. You're on twitch, you get kappa. The kappa stuff is native to the place, everyone on it knows what it is, regardless of the context of the live promotion. It's like complaining on a forum that a topic about something serious has any emoticon in it. The forum context trumps the serious announcement context, because emoticons are an integral part of forums, and so is kappa to a twitch chat.
You're occulting half of the picture to fit what you want.
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Re: HDBZ derail about insults
#44  July 16, 2014, 12:22:03 am
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Re: HDBZ derail about insults
#45  July 16, 2014, 12:24:21 am
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@DKDC: But as I stated before, how is someone who isn't regularly involved with twitch supposed to know that? I watched a twitch stream like... once before HDBZ, and I was confused as hell when I saw it, and thought that the user was being smug just from appearances. Think about any other people that went to twitch for the first time and saw that. Do you think they'd catch on?
Re: HDBZ derail about insults
#46  July 16, 2014, 12:28:10 am
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The lesson here is to never touch Twitch.

Why was a streaming site where sarcasm and personal insults being thrown around is integral to communication the main way to stream it, anyways?  Seems counter-productive and sets up misunderstandings like this.

Is it like the main place for fighting games?  I don't know much on streaming, just Youtube also has it.
Re: HDBZ derail about insults
#47  July 16, 2014, 12:30:46 am
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actually just ignoring it and brushing it off would have stopped this.

Re: HDBZ derail about insults
#48  July 16, 2014, 12:31:06 am
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@DKDC: But as I stated before, how is someone who isn't regularly involved with twitch supposed to know that? I watched a twitch stream like... once before HDBZ, and I was confused as hell when I saw it, and thought that the user was being smug just from appearances. Think about any other people that went to twitch for the first time and saw that. Do you think they'd catch on?
Not relevant, or not in the way you think for the conclusion you're reaching. They would be confused regardless of who's doing it, because it's going to happen no matter what. You looked at a stream once and you saw one, that's proof enough.
It's not really anyone's fault that it's obscure, because Twitch itself is pretty obscure as soon as you're not part of it - I mean it's sealed off, there's not much that comes out of it, you know it's around but you don't know what's in it unless you're right inside of it. You're coming in something like that and you come nose-to-nose with a private joke that is extremely common and well known... in private. Of course you don't get it if you don't already know about it. It doesn't make it any less of a private joke and a very common one - inside of Twitch. It's just an in-joke for something obscure.

Although I do see an awful lot of kappa comments in places like Eventhubs comments and such, so even I knew what it was even though I've never actually set foot on a Twitch chat.

The lesson here is to never touch Twitch.
a streaming site where sarcasm and personal insults being thrown around is integral to communication
That's pretty much the summary of everything to know about this entire issue.
I mean, you guys did hear about "stream monsters" before, haven't you ? That expression alone is also a good summary.
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Re: HDBZ derail about insults
#49  July 16, 2014, 12:32:22 am
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i have to take rednavis side on this one, making some sarcastic jokes in a twitch chat doesnt constitute making the community look bad nor should it be taken to mean anything more than light trolling.whole thing was blown out of proportion. my bad for starting this tho.
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Re: HDBZ derail about insults
#50  July 16, 2014, 12:38:29 am
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Not relevant, or not in the way you think for the conclusion you're reaching. They would be confused regardless of who's doing it, because it's going to happen no matter what. You looked at a stream once and you saw one, that's proof enough.
It's not really anyone's fault that it's obscure, because Twitch itself is pretty obscure as soon as you're not part of it - I mean it's sealed off, there's not much that comes out of it, you know it's around but you don't know what's in it unless you're right inside of it. You're coming in something like that and you come nose-to-nose with a private joke that is extremely common and well known... in private. Of course you don't get it if you don't already know about it. It doesn't make it any less of a private joke and a very common one - inside of Twitch. It's just an in-joke for something obscure.
So basically it's okay to be rude because it's Twitch and if people don't get it, it's their own damn fault.
Re: HDBZ derail about insults
#51  July 16, 2014, 12:39:55 am
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Yes, actually. That's exactly what the point is. That's how twitch is with stream monsters, you either get used to it, or you use one of its built in features and like, disable the chat. Which is a really novel idea. Being a frequent user of twitch I believe I can attest to this, unless you have an incredibly small chatroom, stream monsters and people like that are common. It's not a good idea to be an ass, but it's going to happen on a website like this, so you just adjust.

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Last Edit: July 16, 2014, 12:43:28 am by Killer Kong
Re: HDBZ derail about insults
#52  July 16, 2014, 12:42:14 am
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if people don't get it, it's their own damn fault.
It's not really anyone's fault that it's obscure
You don't need to find someone to blame. It's just something that happens. It's not "okay" to be rude on Twitch, but it's just how it is and no one cares. What's true is that you shouldn't be surprised when it does happen, and you shouldn't take it as face value. It's "okay" in the sense that it's going to happen anyway, regardless of who's saying it.
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Re: HDBZ derail about insults
#53  July 16, 2014, 12:45:44 am
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Lmao does no one see the irony in this thread.

This thread just became another rednavi joke.
Re: HDBZ derail about insults
#54  July 16, 2014, 12:52:41 am
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Just out of curiosity, and if you say "yes" then that's that. Would someone you know coming into the twitch and making the comment that only broken games get accepted to evo not be construed as more of an insult than a joke? Or is that a common joke all the time like "fuck orochi gill" is here?

And if yes that it would not be seen as an insult then basically you just have a different look at it than most of the Z2 team aside from Cybaster. In the end they can still find it insulting.
Re: HDBZ derail about insults
#55  July 16, 2014, 12:58:07 am
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Nobody is immune to offensive jokes anywhere during any instance at any point in time. On the other hand, from my moral point of view, no one should suddenly make detrimental jokes during a big event about a team of which they're supposedly a part. It's like working on a project with a friend, and having that same friend suddenly post in the release thread saying the project is shit. It's a major slap in the face.

But this isn't really that serious because obviously the game is broken since Cybaster coded it. :devil:
Re: HDBZ derail about insults
#56  July 16, 2014, 01:00:34 am
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If it's seen as insulting unfortunately I'm going to have to go with "too bad". It's not on us to deal with people who interpret things out of context or incorrectly. If they can't accept it was a joke then I guess we're done here. Who are we to get on anyone's case for behavior outside of this forum exactly? None of the mods for that stream did anything there so that doesn't mean anyone is entitled to do anything about it here because it was never here to begin with. There was no real need for this thread as it's basically a public PM gone awry. If there was any professionalism to this at all it wouldn't be here period. The correct action was to do nothing and keep working on whatever it is you're doing. Most of us are adults so it should have been addressed like adults.
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Re: HDBZ derail about insults
#57  July 16, 2014, 01:00:56 am
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Just out of curiosity, and if you say "yes" then that's that. Would someone you know coming into the twitch and making the comment that only broken games get accepted to evo not be construed as more of an insult than a joke? Or is that a common joke all the time like "fuck orochi gill" is here?

And if yes that it would not be seen as an insult then basically you just have a different look at it than most of the Z2 team aside from Cybaster. In the end they can still find it insulting.

=>
I guess... It's one thing that "one of your own" makes jokes about your game's problems within your group. It's one thing that stream monsters make kappa jokes all the time. But it's another that "one of your own" joins the others and jokes about your game being bad. It feels pretty terrible - regardless of how many are there to witness it and if they know that you're from the same group. This configuration now feels like there's actual malice in it, like a complete lack of decency and respect for the home team.
Just remember that there are two points of view and that what I say in that quote and what I say above are not mutually exclusive.
I think that Rednavi's comments are not as huge a deal as they've been made into. I also think that Balth and Iced's hurt feelings from Rednavi's comments are legitimate, as I say in that quote above. I think Rednavi should apologize, because what he said was badly received for Balth and Iced, regardless of his alleged intentions. I also think it's still not a huge deal and these Twitch comments, in themselves, are not worth any sort of punishment.
In addition to that, I do think that Rednavi went quite too far with his jokes. He did get told that his jokes on the forum were getting annoying, and he made the Twitch comments anyway. It still doesn't make those comments worth any punishment, but he does deserve being told to cut that shit off for good.

I'm just not in favor of this public lynching, because a lot of the people involved easily get massively overboard over stuff they don't like (like setting up a public lynching). And I also agree with an earlier comment (probably from you) that what happened here was pretty much asking for Rednavi to close off and respond the way he did.

So to answer your question - no. You're just not asking the right question.
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Last Edit: July 16, 2014, 01:05:53 am by DKDC
Re: HDBZ derail about insults
#58  July 16, 2014, 01:03:21 am
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Just out of curiosity, and if you say "yes" then that's that. Would someone you know coming into the twitch and making the comment that only broken games get accepted to evo not be construed as more of an insult than a joke? Or is that a common joke all the time like "fuck orochi gill" is here?

as an outsider I see it as an insult to evo in general and not an insult to the dragonball game in particular; as in there is this random mugen game that is being featured to evo, mugen is well known for being broken, so saying that only broken games make it to evo makes it an insult to evo.

But this isn't really that serious because obviously the game is broken since Cybaster coded it. :devil:

I dare you to go back in time and say this in the twitch chat.
Re: HDBZ derail about insults
#59  July 16, 2014, 01:06:26 am
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so we all agree here that going with the flow on twitch stream was probably not the brightest idea, but rednavi (sorta) apologized and was forgiven by the insulted parties. the problem here seemed to be that it was iced who called him out, and a surprising number of people judging the situation more harshly than it was, which led to rednavi being defensive about it aaaaand here we are.

so uh. yeah. everyone good?
Re: HDBZ derail about insults
#60  July 16, 2014, 01:06:58 am
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Just remember that there are two points of view and that what I say in that quote and what I say above are not mutually exclusive.
I think that Rednavi's comments are not as huge a deal as they've been made into. I also think that Balth and Iced's hurt feelings from Rednavi's comments are legitimate. I think Rednavi should apologize, because what he said was badly received for Balth and Iced.
he already did, he admitted he was wrong, apologized and was forgiven, far as im ( well, we ) are concerned that was that. 
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It still doesn't make those comments worth any punishment, but he does deserve being told to cut that shit off for good.
Ofc not, he was asked to cut that shit out, perhaps too harshly, i could have pmed him instead but like i said, i thought he would ignore my pms considering how he was acting.
I agree with what you are saying .