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Original stuff (Read 4780 times)

Started by Messatsu, September 09, 2007, 03:29:38 pm
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Messatsu

Original stuff
#1  September 09, 2007, 03:29:38 pm
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Cyanide said:
I don't agree with everything this forum is doing, well mostly non policing of original sprites, i'd prefer those were 100% out of bounds. But this feels more like a way forward to me than ostracising everyone new unless they join with all the rules down pat and their first creation meets 80 predefined standards.
I think a few other people would agree with me and Cyanide here.  What should we do with original characters like mentioned?  I was thinking that silently deleting those threads would be fine but that defies the whole transparency thing a bit.

Bastard Wolf said, May 12, 2008, 05:02:05 pm

Many people risk their lives everyday by having Mugen.

Bastard Mami

Re: Original stuff
#2  September 09, 2007, 04:53:21 pm
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there is a very grey area with edited sprites, as one might use rikard's characters as example, then one might use the kula edits (which basically just change hair), then another will use a character that has normal and edited sprites. even for scratch works, there are ones that require much less effort than edits; not to mention copyrighted characters.

Also, just because something is a sprite edit does not mean profit/etc are not taken, there are enough commercial game examples that use edited sprites, while there are games with original sprites that gets lawsuit-ed and lose.

i say we keep the current rules disregarding hard enforcement, and to approach the grey area we show grey moral support to edited/original sprites. I don't think we can go black or white in this sense.

Valodim

Re: Original stuff
#3  September 09, 2007, 07:00:23 pm
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I agree that original stuff should be allowed to have some way of protection.

"edited" is not enough though, unless it is edited to a degree it can be considered original - as in, major editing done to the whole spriteset

Messatsu

Re: Original stuff
#4  September 09, 2007, 07:05:12 pm
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So Rikard's stuff would be protected then?

Bastard Wolf said, May 12, 2008, 05:02:05 pm

Many people risk their lives everyday by having Mugen.

DGJ

Re: Original stuff
#5  September 09, 2007, 07:16:35 pm
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problems with original stuff should be handled the same way as non-original stuff, by the creator themselves

Valodim

Re: Original stuff
#6  September 09, 2007, 07:29:20 pm
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yeah but we could put a paragraph in the rules like
"Be advised that we do think using original material - sprites, in particular - is worth at least a note to their respective author, better yet asking that person if he would be okay with it. While this will not be enforced, you will probably draw a lot of negative attention to your project and yourself otherwise."

I am aware that this is kinda implied already in what we have now, but lately, implications have proven to be too... implicit for most people to understand properly :P

Rikard

Re: Original stuff
#7  September 09, 2007, 07:44:25 pm
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I can see their IP now. I can figure out where they live, I can take a flight to their house, I can punch them in the face and yell 'RIKARD IS NOT AMUSED'.
But yeah, if people wanted to steal my stuff, they'd probably have done it already.

I'm fine with enforcing that 'using edited/original sprites is worth at least a note to the original author'.
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JustNoPoint

Re: Original stuff
#8  September 10, 2007, 01:58:42 am
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Seems to me anyone that may post (for example) a Dragon Claw edited character will either remove their link themselves or be banned for attitude.

As much hostility and information a person would get from posters they would have to simply have a "I don't give a shit, screw respecting or attempting to contact the author" mentality if they didn't remove the link themselves.

Oowhap or whatever that warehouser guy's name was, comes to mind here.

Also I like the 'using edited/original sprites is worth at least a note to the original author'. But technically everything is worth at least a note to the author so perhaps this should be stressed a bit more?

Rikard

Re: Original stuff
#9  September 10, 2007, 02:32:07 am
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Going with 'you need permission' would be the best course of action in my opinion, but then it would be natural for some people to ask 'WHY ARE YOU SHOWING FAVORITISM TOWARDS ORIGINAL CHARACTERS?' while others will go 'WHY I CAN USE STUFF FROM THIS CHARACTER FREELY WHILE I HAVE TO ASK THE AUTHOR FOR THIS OTHER THING?'

Still, taking spritework is far more rude than taking code, since spriting takes much more time - but measuring the entity of the offence takes much more time than comparing CNS files. Sure, like, Kula with shorter hair? The author had to redraw her back on some sprites because her long hair used to cover it. On the same character, maybe the author frankensteined her torso, arms and legs to get a pose he wanted to, creating something that does not exist in the unedited character. Maybe, he drew stuff from scratch for said character. Yet, it's still a Kula with shorter hair. No one will notice if I take some sprites, put them in my own Kula with shorter hair and edit them a bit so that they look like fresh new sprites, right? Wrong! [size=3pt]Any reference to the Megumi-Hiel/Yukino case is merely casual.[/size]

As [E] said, you can't put all of the original characters in the same boat when it comes to using edited sprites, because you don't know how much effort was actually put into them. This is quite a controversial matter.

The last word goes to the creators this way. Like, I don't care if you re-edit on my sprites, unless you produce a broken piece of shit with them.
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triggerall = Win && numhelper(180) = 0 && time = 0 && (stateno = 180) && matchover
HE-MAN AND THE MASTERS OF THE UNNECESSARY TRIGGERS

Messatsu

Re: Original stuff
#10  September 10, 2007, 02:44:24 am
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It's actually more difficult to find if someone stole from coding.  With edited sprites, you know the source to trace back from.

Bastard Wolf said, May 12, 2008, 05:02:05 pm

Many people risk their lives everyday by having Mugen.

JustNoPoint

Re: Original stuff
#11  September 10, 2007, 03:04:01 am
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Personally if you make a Ken or Kula, or whatever edit. Then it shouldn't be much of a big deal.

If you turn the characters into a completely new character that is fairly difficult to trace back to the original sprites... this is when it can become more difficult however. This should be enforced a bit more.

Obvious original stuff not based on any sprites should be the biggest concern. And, um, guess that can fall into stuff like Super Mario from ShinRyoga.

Ugh... I don't know. Let the author deal with it. =P He'll have a horde of fans backing him and the forum will back him as well if the "thief" is simply an ass.

Maybe just something saying "You're smite from the community will most probably be quite severe if you happen to use heavily edited (to the point of original) sprites that you did not make in your release."

Bastard Mami

Re: Original stuff
#12  September 10, 2007, 06:10:10 am
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sunday night and still grey. shinryoga can't profit on mario, hey X company can profit on their chunli edits ...i still go with letting the creator deal with it.

Cyanide

Re: Original stuff
#13  September 10, 2007, 08:53:14 am
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How about when the creator deals with it we enforce their decision? They've done the police work but are unable to make said person remove the link. We would quite happily remove said link for them and take some sort of punitive action against the person involved.

User in question would obviously have to be an ass for this to occur so we are justified in the ruling?

We do need to draw a line on it so it doesn't extend into other matters that we aren't going to stop people with.

Thats where it all becomes difficult i suppose. I'm not at all against code use or ripped sprites but full blown edits needs a bit more than a "nod"


In M.U.G.E.N there is no magic button

They say a little knowledge is a dangerous thing, but it's not one half so bad as a lot of ignorance.

JustNoPoint

Re: Original stuff
#14  September 10, 2007, 11:19:44 am
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That's pretty much how we do things now. Or that's how I would do it and have seen Val already take this action on that warehouse guy.

If the person simply refuses to remove the link after being explained a few times then action from the staff should be taken IMO. I believe this will happen so rarely it will not even be much of an issue.

Normally if a person goes through the trouble to give proper credits and such they will at least try to contact the author once told they should.

Sepp

Re: Original stuff
#15  September 28, 2007, 06:59:35 pm
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