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Jin Kazama 1.0 Update by SeanAltly & CVSNB (Read 12115 times)

Started by Sean Altly, September 24, 2011, 11:38:33 am
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Jin Kazama 1.0 Update by SeanAltly & CVSNB
#1  September 24, 2011, 11:38:33 am
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Well, here's the 1.0 update for Jin Kazama. A lot is different, lots of fixes, and of course the big ones, AI and EX Moves! More details below, in the spoiler:

Spoiler, click to toggle visibilty

Here are some screen shots (same ones from the WinMugen release thread):


Spoiler, click to toggle visibilty

Here's a video preview as well: Watch

Download him at the following locations:

www.mugenguild.com/seanaltly > Bios > Jin Kazama!

Yes, we finally got FTP access back. I updated the links to Rorschach and Snake (so no more people downloading the out-dated versions), and added links for CM Punk and Jin Kazama. Thanks to Volzilla who helped with temp hosting while it was down.

Credits (from the ReadMe):

CVSNB for the sprites
Orochi Gill, Safir Kreuz, Zeckle/Laxxe23 and Cybaster for beta testing
Edward Elric for ripping the sounds
PotS for several FX
Namco for creating Jin and Tekken
Everyone at Mugen Fighter's Guild for their continued support
Volzilla at CVG for temp hosting
You!

If I forgot you, just let me know and I'll update this!
Some men die under the mountain just looking for gold, some die looking for a hand to hold.
Last Edit: October 05, 2011, 04:20:18 am by Sean CenAltly
Re: Jin Kazama 1.0 Update by SeanAltly
#2  September 24, 2011, 11:40:17 am
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cool dling....
Re: Jin Kazama 1.0 Update by SeanAltly
#3  September 24, 2011, 12:00:34 pm
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haven't had a chance to try out the update yet but by what I saw from the 4 vs. 4 vid you posted this update is epic... thanks for taking the time to finish him  :'(

Re: Jin Kazama 1.0 Update by SeanAltly
#4  September 24, 2011, 01:48:47 pm
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Excellent, but... you forgot again to put the name in display name in the DEF file, that's too much work for me :( :P
Re: Jin Kazama 1.0 Update by SeanAltly
#5  September 24, 2011, 02:53:00 pm
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Awesome update!! Jin is easily one of my top favorite Mugen creations as you have done a fine job. Mr. X will join that list once he is released.
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Re: Jin Kazama 1.0 Update by SeanAltly
#6  September 24, 2011, 04:32:30 pm
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AI match up with Pots ryu perfectly =D
]
Re: Jin Kazama 1.0 Update by SeanAltly
#7  September 24, 2011, 05:11:19 pm
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Heck yeah man!
Re: Jin Kazama 1.0 Update by SeanAltly
#8  September 24, 2011, 05:26:02 pm
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excellent news: thanks a lot man!
Re: Jin Kazama 1.0 Update by SeanAltly
#9  September 24, 2011, 06:21:31 pm
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No DL link for Bloodtide on your site.
Re: Jin Kazama 1.0 Update by SeanAltly
#10  September 24, 2011, 08:12:41 pm
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Okay, in-depth analysis. From what I can gather with the few minutes I've been using him, he's fairly similar to the first release of Jin, in that his juggle options are limited, but the pokes from the first update are still intact, and he doesn't have NEARLY as hard a time getting in as from the initial release, which is good. He plays a bit more true to how you made him initially, and with a juggle nerf, he's become more of a reactional rushdown character. It's interesting. He's not shit tier, but not too much worst than the Jin of the first update.

   The EX moves don't appear at first sight to change much about Jin, the damage buffs from the heavy version of the attacks isn't so much higher, but to make up for that, they have absurd range. They don't change or alter the way Jin plays at all, and it's been much more beneficial to just super instead of using them. They don't get much use from me because they don't retain the fundamental uses of the special move that I actually use. EX lift kicks don't put the opponent in a juggle position, and don't do so much more damage than heavy lift, so it gets no use. The EX paw has mad range, so I can see it's use but why do that when I can do a normal paw into level 1 super? EX god fist is a far knockdown, I don't know how to feel about that. So on and so forth for that, they work, but in the future you might want to consider that EX moves can be better than just slightly more powerful specials that are used only to squeeze in 50 more damage.

    The AI is solid, it's beatable and not too crazy, but I haven't fucked with it enough to know if there's anything wrong with it. I bet the KoF style dodge is pretty useful but I haven't really experimented with it so I can't talk on the subject, but it might be the key to successfully using Jin, considering his most hard-hitting BnB combos from the first update aren't possible now. I'll come back to say more things about him a bit later. And I'm ttly gonna come back with a tier list if Sub-Zero is released this weekend.
Re: Jin Kazama 1.0 Update by SeanAltly
#11  September 24, 2011, 09:45:43 pm
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    The AI is solid, it's beatable and not too crazy, but I haven't fucked with it enough to know if there's anything wrong with it. I bet the KoF style dodge is pretty useful but I haven't really experimented with it so I can't talk on the subject, but it might be the key to successfully using Jin, considering his most hard-hitting BnB combos from the first update aren't possible now. I'll come back to say more things about him a bit later. And I'm ttly gonna come back with a tier list if Sub-Zero is released this weekend.

I confirm the AI is really solid and besides that the character is now great at every point. Congrats Sean i think you win Mugen.

Now pardon a veery silly question (but hey, answer it)... Whats the point of making exclusive 1.0 characters since their Winmugen versions works just fine on 1.0 ?
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Re: Jin Kazama 1.0 Update by SeanAltly
#12  September 24, 2011, 09:51:27 pm
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 :woeh:

finally!!! i've been awaiting this update. Testing time, feedback laterr.
Re: Jin Kazama 1.0 Update by SeanAltly
#13  September 24, 2011, 10:51:39 pm
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I confirm the AI is really solid and besides that the character is now great at every point. Congrats Sean i think you win Mugen.

Now pardon a veery silly question (but hey, answer it)... Whats the point of making exclusive 1.0 characters since their Winmugen versions works just fine on 1.0 ?

The AI uses AI Level, which is a 1.0 feature. It allows for there to actually be a difference in AI depending on what you have the difficulty set to.

So on and so forth for that, they work, but in the future you might want to consider that EX moves can be better than just slightly more powerful specials that are used only to squeeze in 50 more damage.

Uh, yeah, I know that. I've given EX moves many different properties in my other creations, I'm aware that EX moves aren't always just slightly more powerful versions of stuff, this isn't my first rodeo. Det. Laurel's EX jumping stomp has homing capabilities, as does Wyldestar's EX Shooting Star and Exile's EX Downward Spiral. Fray's EX Energy Grenade is three multi-direction grenades rather than just one. There are plenty of examples as to how I've used EX moves before, so please, I know what I'm doing. There just wasn't much else to do with Jin's moves in this case, however, there are more to some of them than just damage. EX Demon's Paw does more damage, but it also has the same start-up as LP Demon's Paw (so it's fast and damaging), and also some invincibility frames at the beginning. EX EGWH is supposed to function more like this move, hence it's short range but fast speed and recovery, and it also pushes the opponent far away if blocked (and Jin far away if blocked in the corner), so it's very safe. EX Lift Kicks has more horizontal range than either normal version, as well as very little start-up. It also does more damage, making it an alternative way to end a combo if you don't have enough super meter for a super move. EX Savage Sword is also faster than the normal ones, but doesn't really have any special features, it's just designed to be another alternative combo ender. So, as you can see, aside from EX Savage Sword, there's more to these moves than just "squeezing in 50 more damage".



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Last Edit: September 24, 2011, 11:07:14 pm by Sean CenAltly
Re: Jin Kazama 1.0 Update by SeanAltly
#14  September 24, 2011, 11:17:30 pm
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well there some good things and missing things about this character.
1. Nice he has ex moves.
2. His juggle got nerf but is more balance this way.
3. Good A.I

Note: this just ideas and my opinions to make him better character, you can choose to consider it.
1) This character doesn't do well against projectiles since he's doesn't have parry or focus attack to deal with them which is why you added dodge system but can only side step i recommend adding roll dodge backwards and forwards in order to perform his combos and punish.
2) Kinda of agree with cazaki about Ex lift kicks putting opponent into juggle position. Maybe a move that can go through projects maybe his ex paw which has good range and/or some moves have some kind or more invincibility, and i notice demon paw has some invincibility frames at the beginning.

Questions
1) Lighting screw uppercut?
2) will you make another jin with 6 button character?

Good update, hopefully i'm looking forward for his future updates if there will be one. :)
Re: Jin Kazama 1.0 Update by SeanAltly
#15  September 24, 2011, 11:22:29 pm
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Nice update. Look forward to trying him out. :)
Re: Jin Kazama 1.0 Update by SeanAltly
#16  September 24, 2011, 11:25:42 pm
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@David1990

I appreciate the feedback, but he's not getting any more moves. He already has plenty, I can't just keep adding them on (especially since they're not my sprites). Having trouble dealing with projectiles is just going to have to be one of his weaknesses. Every character has them, and it's always going to be a problem for him. I also really don't want to deal with more juggle issues that would inevitably be caused by allowing juggles after EX Lift Kick.

Also, the character is 4-button because he's for my full-game, so I probably will not make a 6-button version.
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Re: Jin Kazama 1.0 Update by SeanAltly
#17  September 24, 2011, 11:27:29 pm
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but does he need more intros and winning poses? or have you already added them already?
Re: Jin Kazama 1.0 Update by SeanAltly
#18  September 24, 2011, 11:33:34 pm
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No need to post your track record. I'm just saying that to me they have some limited use, and that there's better options than to use them. I know you know what you're doing, but I think they are throwaway moves, there's never a time where using them can open up a whole new world of options for Jin, which is typical of EX moves in SF games. In many fighting games a character that is pretty meh turns into a monster when they have meter, and that's something Jin can't do. I'm not calling you incompetent, I just think it was a missed opportunity, no need to get upset.
Re: Jin Kazama 1.0 Update by SeanAltly
#19  September 25, 2011, 12:59:52 am
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great update sean! like him alot  ;D, just you could do a awesome char even more awesome!
Re: Jin Kazama 1.0 Update by SeanAltly
#20  September 25, 2011, 03:30:57 am
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Lighting Screw Uppercut? but that's not even accurate to the character though....

On another note, very nicely done Sean, I do like the new additions, and like how you took bits and pieces of all the important input and fixed things to make him an even more solid character, I'll give you some more feedback as I use him more, glad to know you fixed the glitch on his qcb+kick. Like I said before though man, if you need more palettes, feel free to include mine if you like :)