YesNoOk
avatar

Battle of Gods: Organized Religion Discussion (Read 28370 times)

Started by Chronan, November 14, 2017, 11:11:59 pm
Share this topic:
Re: Re: The Donald Trump Political MAGAthread: Revenge of the Obama Birthers
#21  November 15, 2017, 04:46:14 am
  • ******
I don't like this sensitivity to criticism of Islam, it's exactly why no one can have any real discussion on it. No, it's not racist (or whatever) to say that Islam has a problem with violence, misogyny, homophobia, and other things. It's the simplistic way of saying that there are issues within their community, in and outside of the Middle East. Not that I should have to, but obvious disclaimer about genuine racists who believe all Arabs are the devil or something.

Muslims need to step up and denounce the things that the "radical" ones are doing if they want to get out of the terrorist spotlight. I have yet to see any Muslim organizations do this. Let me know if I'm wrong.

There are lots of people who do, it's not that simple. As long as there are government leaders and rebellious extremists who enforce the idea that the world shall be governed by Sharia, no amount of denouncing will change people's minds about Islam.

WHERE'S DA MODERATE MUSLIMS AND DERE CONDEMNATIONS OF ISLAMIC TERROR?!?!?!?!
* A collection of all the cases where Muslims have condemned wrongdoings done falsely in the name of Islam.

This is laughable. Not the post, but the part inside the link. People are doing these attacks and other misdeeds in the name of Allah, it doesn't become "false" just because it makes Islam look bad to the majority who are peaceful. Nor does it make them "false" Muslims, given that the things they do are encouraged in their damn holy book. It'd be equally silly to say that Christians who feel gays should burn in hell aren't true Christians.

It is acceptable to discriminate against people for what they believe, because beliefs are something they can control.

Guess it depends on what discriminate means in this instance. Because it this is in the context of disrespecting civil rights, I don't think anyone's gonna agree with that. If it's simple criticism of any ass-backwards beliefs they may have then that's different I suppose.

Yeah I know this is off topic as shit and I'd rather this thread delve into a different topic. Felt this was necessary though since the last few pages has been nothing short of a feces flinging contest.
Re: Re: The Donald Trump Political MAGAthread: Revenge of the Obama Birthers
#22  November 15, 2017, 05:36:44 am
  • ****
I'll be 'bigoted' against people who think:

* Killing people who don't believe in your god is OK
* Killing people who draw pictures of your god is OK
* Women are lesser and it's okay to rape them if they don't cover themselves
* Killing gay people is the compassionate thing to do

...any fucking day, mate. If you aren't, you're the one being immoral.
that is bullshit btw, you probably heard all of this from some radical imam or something. because none of this is true.
I'm going to let god handle you people ✞
Re: Re: The Donald Trump Political MAGAthread: Revenge of the Obama Birthers
#23  November 15, 2017, 06:28:29 am
  • ****
ok yes i'll believe this random poster on a mugen forum over the tons of sources i have come across over several years, you got it

Guess it depends on what discriminate means in this instance. Because it this is in the context of disrespecting civil rights,

that was never the context

also re: that other guy's link being laughable, yes but the point is just to express that there is a significant faction of Muslims opposed to the actions of the other faction. As ridiculous as 'false Muslim' talk is, that kind of thing does the job of showing opposition.
Last Edit: November 15, 2017, 06:32:41 am by Snakebyte
Re: Re: The Donald Trump Political MAGAthread: Revenge of the Obama Birthers
#24  November 15, 2017, 06:39:14 am
  • ***
  • Democracy is non-negotiable.
  • coding nearly done, supers and AI left.
    • USA
    • www.patreon.com/melcore?fan_landing=true&view_as=public
I'll be 'bigoted' against people who think:

* Killing people who don't believe in your god is OK
* Killing people who draw pictures of your god is OK
* Women are lesser and it's okay to rape them if they don't cover themselves
* Killing gay people is the compassionate thing to do

...any fucking day, mate. If you aren't, you're the one being immoral.
that is bullshit btw, you probably heard all of this from some radical imam or something. because none of this is true.


bullshit you say?

Quran (2:191-193) - "And kill them wherever you find them, and turn them out from where they have turned you out. And Al-Fitnah [disbelief or unrest] is worse than killing...
but if they desist, then lo! Allah is forgiving and merciful.   And fight them until there is no more Fitnah [disbelief and worshipping of others along with Allah] and worship is for Allah alone.  But if they cease, let there be no transgression except against Az-Zalimun (the polytheists, and wrong-doers, etc.)"  (Translation is from the Noble Quran)

The verse prior to this (190) refers to "fighting for the cause of Allah those who fight you" leading some to believe that the entire passage refers to a defensive war in which Muslims are defending their homes and families.  The historical context of this passage is not defensive warfare, however, since Muhammad and his Muslims had just relocated to Medina and were not under attack by their Meccan adversaries.  In fact, the verses urge offensive warfare, in that Muslims are to drive Meccans out of their own city (which they later did).  Verse 190 thus means to fight those who offer resistance to Allah's rule (ie. Muslim conquest).  The use of the word "persecution" by some Muslim translators is disingenuous (the actual Arabic words for persecution - "idtihad" - and oppression - a variation of "z-l-m" - do not appear in the verse).  The word used instead, "fitna",  can mean disbelief, or the disorder that results from unbelief or temptation.  This is certainly what is meant in this context since the violence is explicitly commissioned "until religion is for Allah" - ie. unbelievers desist in their unbelief.


This is a singular verse in the Holy Quran... Not even going to talk about the Hadith.

here is a list of attacks made in the name of Islam.
https://www.thereligionofpeace.com/attacks/attacks.aspx?Yr=2017
two occurred just today.

It would be foolish to say being afraid of Muslims as a whole is not a rational thought based the the chances of being involved in an attack made by one as opposed to a Hindu or Jews or a PICK ANY OTHER RELIGION.
Re: Re: The Donald Trump Political MAGAthread: Revenge of the Obama Birthers
#25  November 15, 2017, 06:58:14 am
  • ******
Don't get me wrong I got the context easily, but apparently that wasn't the case with a few others for whatever reason.

I just think the "falsely representing Islam" isn't the best way to go about condemning violence and allows the misleading "religion of peace" narrative to permeate. There are numerous people who believe that terrorists and other criminals don't represent true Islamic faith despite overwhelming evidence to the contrary.
Re: Re: The Donald Trump Political MAGAthread: Revenge of the Obama Birthers
#26  November 15, 2017, 08:51:35 am
  • ****
* Killing people who draw pictures of your god is OK
* Women are lesser and it's okay to rape them if they don't cover themselves
there no such thing in either the quran or hadith that indicates either of those (especially the rape thing). those are all bullshit that the likes of sargon of akkad and thunderfoot spoon feed you from cherry picked radical imams.
The historical context of this passage is not defensive warfare, however, since Muhammad and his Muslims had just relocated to Medina and were not under attack by their Meccan adversaries.  In fact, the verses urge offensive warfare, in that Muslims are to drive Meccans out of their own city (which they later did). 
again, more cherry picking from history.
the tribes of mecca tried countless times to kill muhmmad and his followers through assassins, one of those assassins actually killed his uncle with a spear.
here is an actual proof of this:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hamza_ibn_Abdul-Muttalib#Death
I'm going to let god handle you people ✞
Last Edit: November 15, 2017, 09:31:31 am by Gennos
Re: Re: The Donald Trump Political MAGAthread: Revenge of the Obama Birthers
#27  November 15, 2017, 09:30:17 am
  • avatar
  • ******
Quran (2:191-193)
Do you seriously want to start quoting holy books
When's the last time you read the Bible, because I have bad news for you
It's full of reasons to kill and chase people off
Doesn't matter what you say about Islam, Christianity has it all the same. But are you going to say the same about Christians or are they "not real Christians"
If I struggled to the end of my determination, to the end of my way of life with my followers, if the result is ruin, then this ruin is inevitable. Grieve. Shed tears. But you cannot regret.
Last Edit: November 15, 2017, 09:35:20 am by Byakko
Re: Re: The Donald Trump Political MAGAthread: Revenge of the Obama Birthers
#28  November 15, 2017, 09:42:13 am
  • ******
  • all is love in fair and war
religion is overrated, I label myself christian, but really, it is too much to ask to live by the book written 2000 yrs ago, just use common sense, and general sense of justice and goodness, you don't really need to read a holy book to be a decent human, and on the otherhand you can be the most cruel senseless sadist criminal against humanity if you follow word by word what's written in it without using your head. 
Re: Re: The Donald Trump Political MAGAthread: Revenge of the Obama Birthers
#29  November 15, 2017, 12:19:55 pm
  • avatar
  • ******
That's because Obama was appeasing our enemies. Like ISIS. Obama was nothing but a closet Islamist. Everybody knows that.

Forgot about that Rocket Man put down. Still that's not multiple times. And if Kim wants to fire nukes because of a put down he's the one with the serious problem.

Donald doesn't want to be his friend. He's being diplomatic which I guess is still not good enough for you guys. Trump is right about NK. They have to be dealt with by force. It's too late for them now.

I hope when Kim is dead you guys can go on living.

ask senator mcain about isis he's best chums with it's founder. and why is the founder of isis still alive? or why mccain isn't questioned why he was with them multiple times in public?
Re: Re: The Donald Trump Political MAGAthread: Revenge of the Obama Birthers
#30  November 15, 2017, 12:29:40 pm
  • ******
  • Loyal to the Game
    • USA
    • http://jesuszilla.trinitymugen.net/
because everyone knows at this point that john mccain is a pokémon who can only say his name
Re: Re: The Donald Trump Political MAGAthread: Revenge of the Obama Birthers
#31  November 15, 2017, 12:59:04 pm
  • ******
  • 90's Kawaii
  • :thinking:
    • Guatemala
* Killing people who draw pictures of your god is OK
there no such thing in either the quran or hadith that indicates either of those (especially the rape thing). those are all bullshit that the likes of sargon of akkad and thunderfoot spoon feed you from cherry picked radical imams.
What would happen if a UAE/Qatar/Saudi Arabia/Iran based cartoonist did a Charlie Hebdo-like rendition of Mohammed?

Re: Re: The Donald Trump Political MAGAthread: Revenge of the Obama Birthers
#32  November 15, 2017, 01:22:31 pm
  • ****
* Killing people who draw pictures of your god is OK
* Women are lesser and it's okay to rape them if they don't cover themselves
there no such thing in either the quran or hadith that indicates either of those (especially the rape thing). those are all bullshit that the likes of sargon of akkad and thunderfoot spoon feed you from cherry picked radical imams.

so we're just gonna gloss over the bit about the penalty for atheism being death, and the penalty for homosexuality being death?

yeah I think I'm reaching the point where I can't discuss this civilly anymore.
Re: Re: The Donald Trump Political MAGAthread: Revenge of the Obama Birthers
#33  November 15, 2017, 01:38:04 pm
  • avatar
  • ******
Neither of those are included in what he said was wrong. What are you doing.
If I struggled to the end of my determination, to the end of my way of life with my followers, if the result is ruin, then this ruin is inevitable. Grieve. Shed tears. But you cannot regret.
Re: Re: The Donald Trump Political MAGAthread: Revenge of the Obama Birthers
#34  November 15, 2017, 01:56:19 pm
  • ****
Yes. They were included in my original post, which he GLOSSED OVER to say two OTHER things were wrong, and didn't address at all.

What the fuck are you doing. Learn to read.
Re: Re: The Donald Trump Political MAGAthread: Revenge of the Obama Birthers
#35  November 15, 2017, 02:35:55 pm
  • ****
What would happen if a UAE/Qatar/Saudi Arabia/Iran based cartoonist did a Charlie Hebdo-like rendition of Mohammed?
whats your point? that extremists will ignore them because they're arabs?
extremists killed just as much muslims and arabs (if not even more) as they have non muslims.
so we're just gonna gloss over the bit about the penalty for atheism being death, and the penalty for homosexuality being death?

yeah I think I'm reaching the point where I can't discuss this civilly anymore.
nice strawman why don't you offer a rebuttal to what i said instead of sneaking around it? i already replied to melcore about the penalty for not being a muslim but i guess i didn't go into details so here goes nothing...
islam doesn't allow the killing of non muslims if they're not fighting them, only in a defensive war a muslim has to fight them. melcore's claim about muhammad invading mecca unprovoked is nonsense, mecca tribes have fought with him and tried to kill him lots of times.
as for for punishing homosexuality with death, even though the sharia law may allow for the death penalty for homosexuality, it doesn't mean that such a crazy law is enforced.
not only is it barbaric and cruel, its also not worth policing and its a very exploitable law. what prevents a corrupt police man, for example, from falsely claiming he found two men having sex.
out of all the middle east and north africa, only a handful of countries still enforce it. the death penalty for homosexuality is the least of those countries problems tho (isis, yemen, sudan etc...).
I'm going to let god handle you people ✞
Re: Re: The Donald Trump Political MAGAthread: Revenge of the Obama Birthers
#36  November 15, 2017, 02:38:20 pm
  • ******
  • Dead and buried.
    • Finland
The bible bans round haircuts and shelled fish. Both religions are dumb and just as arbitrary. None of this is worth arguing over.
"Multiple exclamation marks are a sure sign of a diseased mind."

"Okay, okay. So you put a Nazi on the Moon. Fuck you, Moon."
Re: Re: The Donald Trump Political MAGAthread: Revenge of the Obama Birthers
#37  November 15, 2017, 03:09:12 pm
  • avatar
  • ******
Yes. They were included in my original post, which he GLOSSED OVER to say two OTHER things were wrong, and didn't address at all.

What the fuck are you doing. Learn to read.
Why the fuck do you think he specifically quoted these two things and not the rest when saying "these are wrong"
Because he was saying that these two are wrong, not that the others are wrong

Your argument is fucking mental, learn to read.
If I struggled to the end of my determination, to the end of my way of life with my followers, if the result is ruin, then this ruin is inevitable. Grieve. Shed tears. But you cannot regret.
Last Edit: November 15, 2017, 03:12:15 pm by Byakko
Re: Re: The Donald Trump Political MAGAthread: Revenge of the Obama Birthers
#38  November 15, 2017, 03:30:50 pm
  • ***
  • More blood and gore please.
    • USA
    • johncrystal00@embarqmail.com
You guys do know there is an Old Testament and a New Testament right? The insane stuff is in the Old Testament and is not practiced anymore by the church that Jesus started in the New Testament. And the killing of non Christian believers was denounced by the church a very long time ago. Islam is still using the same book they started with. Which is why they still kill the non believers and gays. That's why I said they need to denounce and rewrite their book as a whole. They have not done this or even started in that direction. They need a New Testament.

And if you're not doing everything by the book of any faith then you're not a part of that faith. At all. It's all or nothing. So you can't be ok with the acts of homosexuality and call yourself a Christian. It doesn't work like that. It's not a buffet.

https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Revelation+3%3A16&version=KJV

But the real problem with Islam is if you say you aren't into the Jihad side of it all then you could be simply lying to help the progress of Islam. They're taught to do this right out of their book. It's called Taqiyya. This is the primary reason I find Islamic practitioners untrustworthy. Both the "moderate" and the "radical".

https://www.thereligionofpeace.com/pages/quran/taqiyya.aspx

Last Edit: November 15, 2017, 03:35:17 pm by VGames
Re: Re: The Donald Trump Political MAGAthread: Revenge of the Obama Birthers
#39  November 15, 2017, 04:17:18 pm
  • *****
  • Thanks and God bless
    • USA
    • ricepigeon.neocities.org
To play the devil's advocate here, these aren't so much problems with Islam or Christianity themselves, but organized religion as a whole which follow word-for-word holy scriptures that not only glorified outdated concepts such as slavery, violence, and homophobia, but also were dictated by the whims of the papacy/muslim leaders (see the Crusades), and also a general aversion to adapting to the times (some religions have done this better than others, but still have ways to go). Don't forget, the Protestant Reformation happened for pretty much these reasons.

Also, shouldn't this be split off into a new thread since this has nothing to do with Trump or is inner circle?
Re: Re: The Donald Trump Political MAGAthread: Revenge of the Obama Birthers
#40  November 15, 2017, 04:21:06 pm
  • ******
  • 90's Kawaii
  • :thinking:
    • Guatemala
What would happen if a UAE/Qatar/Saudi Arabia/Iran based cartoonist did a Charlie Hebdo-like rendition of Mohammed?
whats your point? that extremists will ignore them because they're arabs?
extremists killed just as much muslims and arabs (if not even more) as they have non muslims.
No, the point is that said cartoonist would still be killed.

Except that instead of being gunned down quickly by "extremists", he'd jailed and flogged hundreds of times by the legitimate government. What do these governments have in common?