YesNoOk
avatar

Tiffany Lords Updated 12/31/2019 (Read 44066 times)

Started by Rness, August 26, 2018, 10:10:21 pm
Share this topic:
Re: Tiffany Lords(POTS-ish system)
#21  September 09, 2018, 11:21:21 am
  • **
  • Ore no kobushi ga MAKANI MOERO!
    • USA
    • www.facebook.com/aznpikachu215

Because she has no IA, i remove her old IA because gave me certain problems, posibly in the next update i will add a decent IA with few tweaks.

No worries, I still enjoyed the character, keep it up!
Re: Tiffany Lords(POTS-ish system) Updated 28/12/2018
#22  December 29, 2018, 04:13:48 am
  • avatar
  • **
    • lioipaz2010@hotmail.com
Tiffany Updated! Link and details in the first post!

DW

Re: Tiffany Lords Updated 12/29/2018
#23  December 30, 2018, 02:23:00 am
  • *****
    • USA
    • www.trinitymugen.net
This is pretty good. There were some issues, but I just went ahead and fixed most of them myself:

**Now in her official link.**

What was fixed:
Spoiler: Initial Updates (click to see content)

There's some things you still need to fix though:

-MAX Groovy Special will push Tiffany back if p2 is in the corner, causing the last wind up punch to whiff while they're dizzy.

-You should probably buff the hitbox(red clsn) a bit for Beautiful Spin(Both EX and normal versions). As it's a bit slim and some of the hits whiff on a good amount of chars.

-Clean up the code. Don't leave stuff there that you're not using from bases you used. It could lead to problems that you don't know why it's happening. Var(3) is used for the jump type detection and var(7) is used for the Max super detection. You used them for Groovy Punch's increment detection(var(3)) and some odd pause mechanic for her overhead command normal(var(7)). I changed the Groovy Punch var to 2 for you already. Though you need to change the overhead pause var stuff yourself. I left notations in the code.

That var list in the System.def is there for a reason. It'll save you a lot of headache if you pay attention to it. I also got rid of the Akuma restriction you left there and Fake Kacho Sen from Mai(which would lock her up in a invalid state if you did it.). Look over the code and learn it. So you know what's going on.

-All her standing high and standing low get hit anims should use the same clsns as her stance.


Nevermind, I fixed this for you. Refer to EDIT2 below.



It's good that you stuck to the "blueprint" so to speak that Fervicante had laid out. You adapted her pretty well overall. Pretty good job.

**EDIT**:

Looking thru the code, it looks like the overhead var(7) is just left over code from Fervicante. Along with you having some var(55) stuff for a couple of her normals. Copying and pasting code is a bad practice, because you're not learning. Also, as I said above, it can lead to bugs because you'll have vars crossing over one another. I suggest you go thru all the code, and clean up what needs to be taken out.

There's no var(55) at all, and the same goes for the var(7) pause stuff for her overhead. As you're not using var(7) for what Fervicante used it for in his version. It's fine to edit stuff/use stuff as a base. Though you'll benefit overall a lot more if you actually learn what's doing what, and not just C&P stuff. Also, when I was talking about buffing the hitbox for Beautiful Spin, I was referring to the last rising/spinning portion of the attack. Not the grounded/start up hits.

**EDIT2**:

Y'know what, I just went ahead and fixed everything. Because I have OCD... Normally I wouldn't do anything like this, but they were all things bothering me, though easy enough fixes.

Here's the addition fixes I did:

Spoiler: Additional Updates (click to see content)

For someone like me, the little details are important. For most, I know just having something function is good enough for them. IDK where you fit in the spectrum, though we'll see with future releases from you. At least if things like this ever get brought up to you again, you can't say no one ever showed you/told you about the finer details.

I didn't erase the unnecessary code completely though. I left it in with notations, so you can see and delete it for yourself. Her German Suplex throw was using the turn animation for the first frame of it for p2. I'm gonna assume this was just left over from the base version, though that's mighty strange. I'd advise just using the required gethits for throws. Every char won't have matching turn anims, and may not have them at all. I don't think it's required(turn anims). Updated the link with said fixes. I'll more than likely go over more things in the near future. Like improving her EX specials functionality and what not. Though for now, this is good. A bit long winded, sorry, this is why I don't do this much. Still, I'm explaining myself thoroughly and leaving notations, so you'll know what was done, and learn from it. Avoiding said mistakes and things/paying more attention to the finer details in the future.
Last Edit: January 11, 2019, 06:08:09 pm by DW
Re: Tiffany Lords Updated 12/29/2018
#24  December 31, 2018, 02:09:48 am
  • *****
Thats the thing with Tiff ( I am not gonna pretend that I knew half the stuff DW mentioned) I thought she was really solid but had a few kinks to iron out, its super cool to see DW jump in and patch  the stuff that he found. Good job to both of you.
Re: Tiffany Lords Updated 12/29/2018
#25  January 10, 2019, 08:27:07 pm
  • avatar
  • **
    • lioipaz2010@hotmail.com
...


Wow dude, thank you so much for all the feedback and taking your time for fix a lot of issues that I never noticed or i overlooked, i really appreciate it.

Pf, I'm really a fool, I overlooked the upper part of debug flood because i thought that was really unnecesary. With what you mentioned I realize how important it is.

- Overall , I love the way that you edit the German Suplex (I also wanted it to look nice but I could not do it :P) and the Groovy Special (MAX), very fluid at all. And i like how with the changes you made now she is very balanced.

- Her scale (.9333) was something personal, in my opinion her default scale is a bit big unlike other fighters. But it's good!

- Yeah, she need a lot improvement and some changes. With the big help that you gave me I will learn from it and i make some future changes for her. Thanks a lot!!!

...

Thanks Man!!!



I did a few aditional fixes:
Spoiler, click to toggle visibilty

And all DW's fixes are updated!

Link is in the first post!!
Last Edit: January 10, 2019, 08:53:36 pm by Rhythmical

DW

Re: Tiffany Lords Updated 01/10/2018
#26  January 11, 2019, 05:51:32 pm
  • *****
    • USA
    • www.trinitymugen.net
No problem. Like I said, those weren't big issues, just oversights overall. You're not a fool or anything, we all make mistakes. Just gotta learn from them and keep progressing. You definitely want to pay attention to the upper left debug info during creation. As for the slam, throws can be tricky, though the more you work with them, the easier it becomes. I have faith you'll acclimate yourself to them over time. I was generally impressed you were able to apply the Tiny Buffer with no mishaps. Very well done. I wouldn't say she needs a lot of improvement, cause what you have here is very good.

Just some changes possibly to her EX properties. As I see plenty of people just make an EX move a stronger, flashing version of the default special move. A lot of them don't realize EX moves are meant to be worth using/spending meter for, just like a super. I'll go over this more later, when I play more with her(which I have been doing arcade runs with her lately). You did a good job. I look forward to more works from you in the future. I'll let you know if I run into any more bugs.
Re: Tiffany Lords Updated 12/31/2019
#27  December 31, 2019, 10:41:40 pm
  • avatar
  • **
    • lioipaz2010@hotmail.com
Tiffany Updated. Check the first post.
Re: Tiffany Lords Updated 12/31/2019
#28  December 31, 2019, 11:05:25 pm
  • *****
  • Formerly known as HyperClawManiac
  • Competitive MUGEN when?
    • UK
    • sites.google.com/view/ragingrowen/home
Only 3 problems:
1. Her Kick Specials and Supers (Excluding Triple Heaven Cross) use Punch Sounds.
2. Her LK Beautiful Spin has the Thrust FX playing a bit too early, demonstrated in the pic below, similar story for the EX version.

3. You may wanna adjust the Groovy Knuckle Ball FX positioning as it doesn't align with her Glove.
WIP Schedule:
The next Street Fighter All-Stars update
Re: Tiffany Lords Updated 12/31/2019
#29  December 31, 2019, 11:10:55 pm
  • *****
Why remove the EX spinning punch that launched the op in the air ? I feel it allowed for some cool stuff.
Now she just has only 1 link from an EX to a hyper move and thats the cartwheel :/
If it were me I would bring back the ex spinning punch it made her way more fun.
The move im refering to is the down forward any punch.
Even the counter was cool and allowed for some cool stuff  when you have someone in a corner and they wanted to break out.
Why remove it ? rock is a beast in the corner and he has a counter as well.

I will agree the changes make her more balanlced but I am not going to lie I find those EX moves made her more fun.
If you insist on these changes a toggle or a config file would be great if possible.

Other then that the update is good.
I like what you did with some of the vels on the hypers you made them look a lot better, good job.
Regardless, Tiffany is great, looking forward to anything you release.
Last Edit: December 31, 2019, 11:30:07 pm by PeXXeR
Re: Tiffany Lords Updated 12/31/2019
#30  January 01, 2020, 04:39:53 pm
  • avatar
  • **
    • lioipaz2010@hotmail.com
...

Yeah those ex are funny but I feel it unnecessary, was too much launch moves that could follow up with ANY attack.

Old Tiffany had:
-Buster Drop
-Launcher
-Groovy Punch
-Ex Groovy Punch
-Ex Groovy Knuckle
-MAX Groovy Special(p2 in ground).

So i removed and changed some of those and now she only has:
-Launcher
-Groovy Punch
-Max Groovy Special(p2 in ground).

 I really like those EX moves but...

 - EX GKnuckle is kinda similar to EX GWheel. Because both are short range and have the same amount of hits. And when i play tiffany rarely use those EX specials...
 - When tiffany bounced P2 off walls, you could follow up with EX GKnuckle and launch p2 again for follow up with other special move and from that special move to a supermove, it was kinda annoying. The same story with Buster Drop.
 - About the counter special:  While GPunch is a difficult move, EX GPunch is a easy move and very unbalanced. Besides she counter the opponent, also bounces P2 off walls and she can follow with any attack.

If you consider the first hit of EX Beautiful Spin, there are two links in Ex versions to hyper move. EX Exciting kick is not, but is good for make combos too.

Anyway, i was thinking about changing the functionality of those EX specials that i removed and make it faithful of their respective non EX specials. But for me i think that is complete.

Even so, Do you think it is really necessary to bring those EX back?.

Thanks!!! I'm glad you like it!

PD: My english can not be good, sorry.

...

1. Those kick specials fits well with punch sounds, and I finded very similar to Rising Tackle, so for that reason i added it.
2. Fixed.
3. Fixed. Anyway that's because Tiffany was in other Scale (.933) but when i modified to her default scale GP FX position was altered.

Thanks for the feedback.
Last Edit: January 01, 2020, 05:22:12 pm by Rhythmical
Re: Tiffany Lords Updated 12/31/2019
#31  January 01, 2020, 05:04:54 pm
  • *****
Here's where my lack of knowledge with Tiff bit me in the butt, I had no idea she could loop those like that.
Well said.
Tiff is great as she is, thanks for the updates Rhythmical.
Re: Tiffany Lords Updated 12/31/2019
#32  January 03, 2020, 03:31:02 am
  • ******
  • The Lord of Vampire
  • Member of the Reign of Kreation
    • Brazil
    • guiaugusto20@hotmail.com
    • Skype - guiaugusto20


Thanks a bunch for the update. She's even better and better Rhyth. :)

Just one feedback
- This issue on the special intro against Hinata. https://i.imgur.com/BEgzJpl.mp4
Re: Tiffany Lords Updated 12/31/2019
#33  January 03, 2020, 03:30:17 pm
  • avatar
  • **
    • lioipaz2010@hotmail.com

DW

Re: Tiffany Lords Updated 12/31/2019
#34  January 25, 2020, 04:15:20 am
  • *****
    • USA
    • www.trinitymugen.net
This is....quite the nerf. I'm glad I kept her older version and didn't overwrite it. EX QCF + P was absolutely her best tool for getting in and punishing p2.... And you took it away.... You can add limiters to her juggle resets so that she won't infinitely juggle. Or juggle under conditions you don't want her to. You can add additional dampeners to trigger for her resets if you feel they are causing too much damage. That's called balancing. What you did is hard nerf....

While the EX counter move wasn't amazing by any means, I'd agree with Pexxer that it was a nice option. That doesn't set up for any juggle resets, just blows up p2's rushdowns and makes them have to 2nd guess things some times. I can kinda understand why you took away EX QCF + P, because you don't know how to balance it/the juggle resets. Though I have no clue why you took away the EX counter... :-\ The counter did NOT set p2 up for juggle resets from what I have here. She just does a SRK like counter that blows up p2's attack.

Tiffany's Launcher is worthless. Because unlike Kyosuke, where he can perform air combos after it, and even cancel into specials/supers, Tiffany can't do anything really after it. Maybe she can squeeze in a normal or something before p2 falls from it. If you wanted to get rid of something, it should have been this. Buster Drop is her air throw? Don't use it too often. Once again, you should have just made it so that you can't follow up after the air throw. Groovy Punch isn't a reliable juggle reset. It takes too long to charge to even be able to hit p2 with the wall bounce version. Also, even if you do manage to hit p2 with a charged version, Tiffany takes too long to recover, and often times is out of position to follow up anyway. Aside from maybe a super cancel.

I can help you balance this. Though this nerf here isn't very good. Yeah, it does stop juggles that you didn't want her to have, but it also takes away her best tools. It honestly makes her not fun to play with. I hope you'll reconsider.
Last Edit: January 26, 2020, 06:40:50 pm by DW
Re: Tiffany Lords Updated 12/31/2019
#35  January 25, 2020, 09:40:51 pm
  • *****
I have to agree with DW here.
The nerf kinda hit her hard. I am not as familliar with the chars in the OG games but instead of nerfing her to the ground why not tweak her  ?
I tend to miss that counter move as well.
 I would take DW's offer in a heartbeat.
Re: Tiffany Lords Updated 12/31/2019
#36  January 25, 2020, 09:55:08 pm
  • *****
  • A.K.A. NED
  • I like to draw fighting game characters...
Same reaction for the nerf.
There are other ways to tone her down without removing this.

The result is still ok, but, the move was useful as DW said.
Re: Tiffany Lords Updated 12/31/2019
#37  January 26, 2020, 01:43:33 pm
  • avatar
  • **
    • lioipaz2010@hotmail.com
....What you did is hard nerf....
Wow, I never thought that. In my opinion those EX were filling, but i will reconsider what you and Pexxer say!.

The counter did NOT set p2 up for juggle resets from what I have here. She just does a SRK like counter that blows up p2's attack.
Oh ... I really forgot that I had changed the functionality in the previous version, that's because her first version did set P2 up for Juggle resets. I just kept in mind that I didn't like the EX version as counter. But anyway i will add it !!!

I can help you balance this. Though this nerf here isn't very good. Yeah, it does stop juggles that you didn't won't her to have, but it also takes away her best tools. It honestly makes her not fun to play with. I hope you'll reconsider.
I would appreciate your help DW, I didn't think it was a nerf really. Thanks for the feedback!!


So, I decided to bring back those EX specials, because after reading your feedbacks i didn't realize that how important is.

-Launcher Removed.
-EX Groovy Knuckle Tweaked.
-Groovy Punch tweaked and now can counter, the unguardable was removed.
-misc tweaks

The last thing I forgot are her winquotes, because the ones I did are really bad lol. Any help would appreciate it!.

Link in the first post!.

Thanks Guys for the feedback!!.
Last Edit: January 26, 2020, 02:17:17 pm by Rhythmical
Re: Tiffany Lords Updated 12/31/2019
#38  January 26, 2020, 01:49:01 pm
  • *****
  • Formerly known as HyperClawManiac
  • Competitive MUGEN when?
    • UK
    • sites.google.com/view/ragingrowen/home
I don't think you had to remove the Launcher entirely, I always like more move choices as long as they're not excessive.
WIP Schedule:
The next Street Fighter All-Stars update
Re: Tiffany Lords Updated 12/31/2019
#39  January 26, 2020, 03:58:27 pm
  • *****
  • I must continue my training...
Can't please everybody, bro. Cool stuff btw.

Do your best to become stronger. Become stronger, so you can do your best.

Mugen is a way for me to remain nostalgic with all of the dream matches I cooked up as a kid. It's also what I call a "Digital Action Figure Collection."
MaxBeta link=topic=155656.msg1876950#msg1876950 date=13867
Vegaz_Parrelli...also known as The Lord of the Rings.
[/quote said:

DW

Re: Tiffany Lords Updated 12/31/2019
#40  January 26, 2020, 06:28:46 pm
  • *****
    • USA
    • www.trinitymugen.net
Choice to do what? To have a move just to have it? I just explained that she can't really follow up after the launcher. I'd imagine that one would want to use Kyosuke as a guide of sorts for her, since she was never in CvS2. Kyosuke can perform air combos, into specials, and even into his air super from his launcher. He pursuits, like MvC. Tiffany does not. Making it worthless. She can't air combo after it, she doesn't even pursuit, so why have it? It'd have to be made useful like Kyosuke, if it were to be kept.





I forgot to say in the update list by what I mean by "controlled" custom state. Currently, for MAX Groovy Special, you are using p2's default dizzy state. This isn't your fault, but a lot of time you'll have people do stuff like this:

Spoiler, click to toggle visibilty

In which case, the last hit of the super will miss, because of how they mapped their clsns. While being dizzy is a "special" state, it's technically still treated as a standing gethit animation. People should map it as such. Though they won't. So, you have to control the state yourself. This was actually already in the AIR. Which I assume Fervicate or you added as a precaution. I just made it so they'll go to said state.