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Rorschach by SeanAltly (w/AI by Kamekaze) - (Updated 05/10/11) (Read 18697 times)

Started by Sean Altly, May 08, 2011, 04:27:42 am
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Re: Rorschach by SeanAltly (w/AI by Kamekaze) - Massive Update
#21  May 09, 2011, 05:39:51 am
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So please, don't just fix the move, ditch Kamekaze's broken AI and find someone else to do it. It cheats with your other characters too. Here's what your characters can do under AI control:

Stop crying because you can't beat it.
Re: Rorschach by SeanAltly (w/AI by Kamekaze) - Massive Update
#22  May 09, 2011, 06:01:11 am
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@ Orochi : his points are still valid. An AI shouldn't cheat, no matter what.
Re: Rorschach by SeanAltly (w/AI by Kamekaze) - Massive Update
#23  May 09, 2011, 06:01:42 am
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I'm not saying they're invalid, I'm telling him to stop whining about it.
Re: Rorschach by SeanAltly (w/AI by Kamekaze) - Massive Update
#24  May 09, 2011, 06:14:55 am
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Really great update plus the sprites looks much cooler than before congratulations  :)

-I only find weird that Rorschach is invincible will doing "A Pretty Butterfly" even to projectiles

everything else is ok in my case and the AI is quite challenging yet beatable IMO
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Re: Rorschach by SeanAltly (w/AI by Kamekaze) - Massive Update
#25  May 09, 2011, 06:54:23 am
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I'm not saying they're invalid, I'm telling him to stop whining about it.
Still Kamekaze's AI is just rape. Not looking forward to pressing F1 all the time in Shades 2. At least his AIs have recognizable patterns.
Re: Rorschach by SeanAltly (w/AI by Kamekaze) - Massive Update
#26  May 09, 2011, 07:11:53 am
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You'll just need to set the AI difficulty to 1 in Shades 2 in this case.
Re: Rorschach by SeanAltly (w/AI by Kamekaze) - Massive Update
#27  May 09, 2011, 08:18:20 am
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Okay, I've had it up to here with Kamekaze's glitchy, cheating AI. If you block any of his combo attempts, he will cancel crouching MP into sliding tackle (and he's a devious little fuck about it, too, making sure the cancel is LATE so it looks like a link/tick throw), because you forgot to make sliding tackle unable to hit people who are blocking. Oh, yeah, and on your wakeup, he'll DO IT AGAIN, and the only defense for it is an invincible attack. If you do a guard cancel, the sliding tackle will go through it and hit you anyway, unless it has 100% invincibility to EVERYTHING or is a very fast crouching attack, and guard cancels of these types are rare and usually go beyond this and allow for combos afterward, so they're broken.
So let me understand this, because the grab is able to hit at any time and the AI is doing this it's automatically my fault? I have no control over when the AI chooses to cancel out of his own moves as his only guideline is movecontact.

So please, don't just fix the move, ditch Kamekaze's broken AI and find someone else to do it. It cheats with your other characters too. Here's what your characters can do under AI control:

 - Thirteen chains his QCF+MP move into his QCFx2+P move (human players cannot do this)

That one was unintentional as sean updated it so human players cant and I was unaware of that so the AI still could. In this case thats a bug report. Thank you, this has been fixed. Before I release a patch please pm me anything else thats odd about this AI.
- Byrne throws out another flare as soon as the current one hits or is blocked (human players have to wait until the current one's hitstun/blockstun ends OR until it goes off the screen)

Again, another uninformed error on my part that has been fixed. On one of the projectiles there was a faulty numhelper trigger.
- Various characters cancel the launcher into whatever move is convenient, which is usually CROUCHING LK (sound familiar? also the stupid thing is that I actually can't figure out how the fuck he manages to do this; I looked all over the AI coding for stuff that's triggered by the launcher hitting, but couldn't find anything)

Well from it seems like this was due to sean using a different super jump state in which I was also unaware about. You see, before it was told to go to state 50(jump state) but now that state is supposed to be 40000(which I've just got around to noticing) thus the AI goes to 50 but lands instantly allowing it to do other things after it. I've fixed this in just about all his stuff on my end but I'm not allowed to release those as patches only allowed to give them to sean when I'm done with them.
So as you can see, Kamekaze is a cheating bastard. In fact, I'm almost CERTAIN that if you just fix the move, but allow Kamekaze to update the AI, he'll just make him cheat in a DIFFERENT WAY. If you can't get anyone else to make the AI, I'LL do it.

Nice to know that instead of reporting these supposed cheats(bugs) you instead assume I have a ulterior motive even though I don't give the slightest of a damn to do such a thing. If you have any more bugs to report please do but I assure you, and I don't care if you believe me or not, I have no intention whatsoever of making AI cheat, regardless of the fact that AI is supposed to have a advantage over players but not in this way of course. 
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Re: Rorschach by SeanAltly (w/AI by Kamekaze) - Massive Update
#28  May 09, 2011, 09:37:28 am
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Is it possible to make the grappling gun hit and grab an opponent at least one time when they're on the floor, after being knocked down? I mean, the "D,F,LK" shows it could even do that. It could be interesting. Also, is it normal that the door in "Who Killed Edward Blake?" is a wall? And last, for this last move I commented, I can't counter it with short distance moves, as I'm the one getting countered. I think that's not fair, specially when he just comes forward and is vulnerable.
Last Edit: May 09, 2011, 09:43:49 am by Nanashi_1337
Re: Rorschach by SeanAltly (w/AI by Kamekaze) - Massive Update
#29  May 09, 2011, 10:07:23 am
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So let me understand this, because the grab is able to hit at any time and the AI is doing this it's automatically my fault? I have no control over when the AI chooses to cancel out of his own moves as his only guideline is movecontact.

What the fuck?! The solution to this problem is as simple as omimtting these lines of code:

trigger2 = stateno = 220
trigger2 = movecontact
trigger3 = stateno = 1005
trigger3 = movecontact
trigger4 = stateno = 1000
trigger4 = movecontact
trigger5 = stateno = 400
trigger5 = movecontact
trigger6 = stateno = 410
trigger6 = movecontact

Because you're not supposed to be able to cancel into the sliding tackle in the first place, and if you wanted to, you could add the line

trigger6 = time =/>/< x, where x is a a number of frames, or

trigger6 = AnimElem = x, where x is the animation emelent

to control WHEN it cancels the crouching MP (I can see that you didn't, though; I guess it really was just canceling normally).

So YES, actually, it IS your fault, because you DO have control over when and how your AI combos, among other things.

The stuff about the other characters seems legit, though. Sorry about that. I guess you two need to stay in touch better.
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Re: Rorschach by SeanAltly (w/AI by Kamekaze) - Massive Update
#30  May 09, 2011, 11:01:14 am
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I respect your feedback BenimaruCollider, and you've helped quite a bit on certain aspects of my characters and my code, but as much as I've improved in that area, you still haven't improved as far as your attitude towards other people and creators go. Kamekaze is not a "cheating bastard" and many of those things could simply be listed as bug reports instead of calling things "stupidly broken" and launching into long-winded personal rants against people you don't like. As open-minded as I have been about your feedback despite its harshness, I think you could at least be a little more considerate when wording it. I don't need rainbows and sunshine, but a little bit of respect would be nice (and the same goes for Kamekaze). Just my opinion on the matter, and you can take it however you want.

I value your feedback and thank you for it. Whether you decide to re-evaluate your attitude towards giving feedback or not, I will always take said feedback into consideration and try to improve my characters. I will fix the issue with his sliding tackle, since I simply forgot to make the move unable to hit during blockstun. That's my fault and it will be fixed immediately.

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Last Edit: May 09, 2011, 11:35:52 am by Sean Altly
Re: Rorschach by SeanAltly (w/AI by Kamekaze) - Massive Update
#31  May 09, 2011, 11:46:02 am
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Hey, I don't mean any disrespect towards you, and I did say to Kamekaze I was sorry about my accusation of intentionally creating cheating AIs and withdrew it after I read about what was really behind that. I suppose I'll try to keep my temper in check, though I really don't get why he would say something so dumb as that he doesn't have control over a particular function of his AI that is really quite easy to control. That honestly has to be the dumbest thing I have ever read from him. I fixed his AI myself; it wasn't impossible.

Aaaand I just now noticed that I mistakenly took those lines of code from the super tackle instead of the special one, which is fine to combo into on hit, just not on block. The sliding tackle still needs fixing. Should not be able to combo into it at all.
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Re: Rorschach by SeanAltly (w/AI by Kamekaze) - Massive Update
#32  May 09, 2011, 07:01:44 pm
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Just did some testing, he has low comboablity with his specials. Human players will block when given the chance.
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Re: Rorschach by SeanAltly (w/AI by Kamekaze) - Massive Update
#33  May 09, 2011, 07:09:31 pm
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What the fuck?! The solution to this problem is as simple as omimtting these lines of code:

trigger2 = stateno = 220
trigger2 = movecontact
trigger3 = stateno = 1005
trigger3 = movecontact
trigger4 = stateno = 1000
trigger4 = movecontact
trigger5 = stateno = 400
trigger5 = movecontact
trigger6 = stateno = 410
trigger6 = movecontact

Because you're not supposed to be able to cancel into the sliding tackle in the first place, and if you wanted to, you could add the line

So YES, actually, it IS your fault, because you DO have control over when and how your AI combos, among other things.

Again That was a bug on my part that I've taken care of. That on in particular I'll admit was error on my part but as I said I have no means of making stuff like that intentional. I'll be 21 in a couple weeks for crying out loud, I'm too old to do petty shit like making blatant cheating AI dude. I accept your apology(that I don't see at all here nor did you pm me). In any case, this stupid animosity between the two of us isn't helping anything get fixed if you don't report any bugs to me. We've been down this road before(and yeah I eventually took your advice to add more cooldown on falcon even though everything he did was practically unsafe ala hittime but yeah).
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Last Edit: May 10, 2011, 12:41:34 am by OverKing Kamekaze
Re: Rorschach by SeanAltly (w/AI by Kamekaze) - Massive Update
#34  May 09, 2011, 07:54:59 pm
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Posting to let you know that I can finally delete that video, as promised :P
Re: Rorschach by SeanAltly (w/AI by Kamekaze) - Massive Update
#35  May 09, 2011, 10:52:54 pm
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Re: Rorschach by SeanAltly (w/AI by Kamekaze) - Massive Update
#36  May 10, 2011, 12:41:45 am
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fixed
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Re: Rorschach by SeanAltly (w/AI by Kamekaze) - Massive Update
#37  May 10, 2011, 03:53:37 am
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The grappling hook's blockable from every distance, right?
Re: Rorschach by SeanAltly (w/AI by Kamekaze) - Massive Update
#38  May 10, 2011, 06:50:31 am
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Indeed it is.  :)
"I'll change MY direction! Yeah." - Benimaru
Re: Rorschach by SeanAltly (w/AI by Kamekaze) - Massive Update
#39  May 10, 2011, 09:00:05 am
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Okay, two more problems:

The whole backstep's statetype and physics should be A. Currently, it's coded as S for both. Wrong. Messed up shit happens when you hit him out of it, worse than the usual standing on air effect; it's hard to describe. Just... try it for yourself (backdash while cornered to make it easy) and see what happens. Use various moves to see how weird it is.

Also, "Who killed Edward Blake?" can hit people out of blockstun as well. Your characters seem to have this problem a lot on grabs that aren't normal ones.  --; I would leave it able to connect during hitstun (add "triggerall = p2stateno != [150,153]" instead of "triggerall = p2movetype != H"), however, since it's so weak for a level 3 and he has no DM, and I like unorthodox combos such as into grabs like that (one of the reasons I got into Melty Blood). It could also stand to do more damage (I'd suggest around 450). Finally, the lifebar disabling during the move (which is cool; don't change that) prevents the several small lifeadds from having the effect of making the first 11 "hits" look weaker, because you can't see the damage while it's being done. Therefore, it is unnecessary and inefficient to use more than one big lifeadd at the end, unless you want them to be affected by P.o.t.S.'s damage dampener since they aren't technically attacks (in which case you'll have to multiply them by the variable(s) that control(s) the attackmulset, which can be difficult).

I also think it's kind of dumb that he doesn't have any level 2 supers now. If you really want Archie Flamethrower to be level 1, then "A Pretty Butterfly" should be level 2 and more damaging (around 300).
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Re: Rorschach by SeanAltly (w/AI by Kamekaze) - Massive Update
#40  May 10, 2011, 08:28:25 pm
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I'll fix the stuff you said (the backdash problems come from me copying my CvW Ryu's backdash state but forgetting to change the physics), but I don't see why it's "dumb" that he doesn't have any level 2 supers. Plenty of games, like MVC and TVC, don't have L2 supers. He has two L1 supers and a L3, just like characters do in TVC. I'm not trying to mimic any particular style, just using it as an example, so I don't think it's "dumb" at all. You could really do without using words like "dumb" and "stupid" when giving feedback. You could accomplish the same thing without coming off as insulting by simply saying that you don't like it, or by saying that you think he should have a L2 Super.

However, I'm going to have to disagree with you here, because I like him having two L1 Super options and one big L3 Super.

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