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PROJECT: Unreal Fighter 2D Unreal 4 Meets Mugen! Update: 15.01.2018 (Read 235501 times)

Started by Achilleon, December 03, 2015, 06:51:28 pm
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Re: PROJECT: Unreal Fighter 2D (Fighting Game Template for Unreal 4 Engine)
#21  December 04, 2015, 12:37:05 am
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The problem with palettes is that your characters don't have a defined palette in UE4 like in mugen, right? As in, you don't have a list of, in the case of Ken, 16 colors (Including the transparent one) that can be individually modified (Without needing to separate parts into separate layers). You're instead forced to change the hue of an entire element at a time, and the only way to manipulate ONLY ONE color of the palette is by separating anything using that one color as a separate layer.

So in order to freely change every single color of a 16 color palette (Well, again, 15 as the transparent one does not count) you'll have to separate a single sprite into 15 (!!!) different layers, each layer having only one of the colors.

Your current method of separating only certain parts of a sprite allows you to change the HUE of that part in particular but you don't have full reign over every individual color of its palette, you can only change the entire layer via color hue modifications.


I had a similar issue while prototyping a game I'm doing on UE4 and faced the same problem, although I'm not doing a fighting game so I don't really need alternative palettes, which is why it's a non-issue to me but it will if I ever do a fighting game. My alternative solution to that would be to just create duplicated sprites for the alt colors but that still wont give me the ability to change individual colors like old school games do.

This video should show you some of the effects S.D. and I are talking about, just look at Gill:



Personally, I don't really mind the loss of that effect anyway. The flexibility of UE4 over Mugen is more than worth the trouble.
Re: PROJECT: Unreal Fighter 2D (Fighting Game Template for Unreal 4 Engine)
#22  December 04, 2015, 12:42:35 am
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I saw Kamekaze pinged me about the hit pushback issue. Going by what you've said in your post, Achilleon, your setup with regards to hit pushback seems very good. It looks quite flexible, and capable of accurately recreating how it works in Capcom games.
Re: PROJECT: Unreal Fighter 2D (Fighting Game Template for Unreal 4 Engine)
#23  December 04, 2015, 02:00:36 am
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Yes, what you described sounds EXACTLY like what Capcom does for ground hits. It pushes back and gradually decelerates, so the pushback is less and less as time goes on. Excellent!


I've been looking for a more suitable engine for quite some time now. I'd love to provide as much input as I possibly can, maybe even contribute a little if I can get the time.


So it DOES have SFF support? If so that is absolutely awesome, that format is great for both programmers and spriters to work with.
Re: PROJECT: Unreal Fighter 2D (Fighting Game Template for Unreal 4 Engine)
#24  December 04, 2015, 02:25:34 am
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If you mean straight using .sff files from mugen to UE4 then no, but the tools used in order to make the animations are VERY similar to Fighter Factory, so anyone used to making .sff files for mugen should be able to create animations on UE4 just fine.

Heck, you can even use sheets on this in case you're too lazy to crop the entire thing into separate files. There are also a lot of options that make your life damn easier too.
Re: PROJECT: Unreal Fighter 2D (Fighting Game Template for Unreal 4 Engine)
#25  December 04, 2015, 02:28:56 am
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If you mean straight using .sff files from mugen to UE4 then no, but the tools used in order to make the animations are VERY similar to Fighter Factory, so anyone used to making .sff files for mugen should be able to create animations on UE4 just fine.

Heck, you can even use sheets on this in case you're too lazy to crop the entire thing into separate files. There are also a lot of options that make your life damn easier too.

True, which is why I like UE4 a lot. Achilleon's project here is like the icing on the cake, if he does complete it, I'll use it in a fucking heartbeat, I'd throw cash over something like what he is doing.
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Re: PROJECT: Unreal Fighter 2D (Fighting Game Template for Unreal 4 Engine)
#26  December 04, 2015, 03:04:45 am
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I really liking what i see...i really want see this complete,and i really want to pay  and learn how to use it.i have some questions...
1-how the paralax will work?a 3d model with specif configurations or olg mugen method?
2-you are going to mimic all mugen stuff right?how about new triggers and statedefs? I really see the need of nes ones (when i working with mk chars)
3-any chances to add stages like mvc2(i have luck and see the videos , i know now that have it)and maybe 3d fxs too?
4-how about diferent chars on a same slot(like mkt) press select to change it
5-how many buttons? Just 6 ? Or you going to add more? Select and the the L2 ,R2!
6-in this template will be a example full game? Like mugen kfm game?
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Last Edit: December 04, 2015, 03:28:56 am by Roney'Nero'
Re: PROJECT: Unreal Fighter 2D (Fighting Game Template for Unreal 4 Engine)
#27  December 04, 2015, 03:06:26 am
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This whole project seems really interesting in its own ways. I especially love how "Stage twisting" works in the engine, as it shows a "Oh shit" moment during a fight.

One question about Stage twisting: Does the color have to be red if a character changes to his/her evil form? I get that it gives off the feeling that you're really in for the fight of your life, but why not any other colors?

If I have to clarify what I mean, let's take Shadow Tiger's Lair from Killer Instinct (2013) for example: The color is dark blue at best (with some moonlight here and there), but it gives off an ominous feeling to an evil character (Shadow Jago).
Re: PROJECT: Unreal Fighter 2D (Fighting Game Template for Unreal 4 Engine)
#28  December 04, 2015, 03:20:31 am
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The problem with palettes is that your characters don't have a defined palette in UE4 like in mugen, right? As in, you don't have a list of, in the case of Ken, 16 colors (Including the transparent one) that can be individually modified (Without needing to separate parts into separate layers). You're instead forced to change the hue of an entire element at a time, and the only way to manipulate ONLY ONE color of the palette is by separating anything using that one color as a separate layer.

So in order to freely change every single color of a 16 color palette (Well, again, 15 as the transparent one does not count) you'll have to separate a single sprite into 15 (!!!) different layers, each layer having only one of the colors.

Your current method of separating only certain parts of a sprite allows you to change the HUE of that part in particular but you don't have full reign over every individual color of its palette, you can only change the entire layer via color hue modifications.


I had a similar issue while prototyping a game I'm doing on UE4 and faced the same problem, although I'm not doing a fighting game so I don't really need alternative palettes, which is why it's a non-issue to me but it will if I ever do a fighting game. My alternative solution to that would be to just create duplicated sprites for the alt colors but that still wont give me the ability to change individual colors like old school games do.

This video should show you some of the effects S.D. and I are talking about, just look at Gill:

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HvxtiJSde3s[/youtube]

Personally, I don't really mind the loss of that effect anyway. The flexibility of UE4 over Mugen is more than worth the trouble.

Firstly about the palette part. That is unfortunately correct. Unreal does not have a palette system. Maybe it will one day when Epic decides to do so, though for now the problem stays there.

I thought for week about what could be done about it, but it seems to be inevitable. As I mentioned in one of the posts before, if you really have a character that can have 15 changeable colors you can do this;

Set all those colors to different from each other in Fighter Factory, then extract entire sprites. In photoshop, do a batch process that seperates colors and saves them seperately. This is what I do with my Ken to seperate him to 8. Since it's batching, the process will work for all sprites and you don't have to do them over and over again for each sprite.

I am not saying it's not a pain though. The Rose is surely big, and so is it's thorns. Though that's the only way of getting full control of colors for now.

----

About the Gill color change is. Now I understand. Though all I can say is doable as it seems to be shining the light parts first, and going darker while doing the procedure from left to right. It IS possible because it's a mathematical thing they are creating. It's just that it would take time for me to find out.

Whatever I show in the first video for color changing, is the VERY VERY VERY simplistic stuff that even a rookie can get in a day. I have literally zero experience when it comes to materials, textures and editing them. I mean, Unreal got tons of things that it can do. Refraction, Reflection, Roughness. Things are endless. It's just that I am not capable of showing, and to be honest, I rather finish the engine first.

"Your current method of separating only certain parts of a sprite allows you to change the HUE of that part in particular but you don't have full reign over every individual color of its palette, you can only change the entire layer via color hue modifications."

About this part, because I didn't do any color masking by any means, it looks like that. But trust me, there are more possibilities and fixes for that problem. It's just I need some time to work on it. Though as I said before I want to finish the Engine first! ^_^

I saw Kamekaze pinged me about the hit pushback issue. Going by what you've said in your post, Achilleon, your setup with regards to hit pushback seems very good. It looks quite flexible, and capable of accurately recreating how it works in Capcom games.

Yap, that's the way it works!

Though as someone mentioned before, it will not have any support for any mugen's file. Though you don't really need it. Though tools for animation creation is quite easy. I think the easiest part. ^_^

Heck, you can even use sheets on this in case you're too lazy to crop the entire thing into separate files. There are also a lot of options that make your life damn easier too.

That is quite true for the entire project. I am not a Unreal 4 supervisor. I still don't know a ton of stuff and I am learning on the way. What you don't see on the videos, do not mean they can't be done, so don't take my experience as granted please. :)
Quote
True, which is why I like UE4 a lot. Achilleon's project here is like the icing on the cake, if he does complete it, I'll use it in a fucking heartbeat, I'd throw cash over something like what he is doing
.

Thanks! I hope to make a patreon thingy soon so I can gain many for hiring additional artists to get some sprites that I need etc, but I need to do more than just some pretty Shoryuken's first. ^_^

People need to see what's possible. Saying "oh it's not possible" is not a satisfactory level for me yet. I need to show.
Re: PROJECT: Unreal Fighter 2D (Fighting Game Template for Unreal 4 Engine)
#29  December 04, 2015, 03:28:29 am
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I really liking what i see...i really want see this complete,and i really want to pay  and learn how to use it.i have some questions...
1-how the paralax will work?
2-you are going to mimic all mugen stuff right?how about new triggers and statedefs? I really see the need of nes ones (when i working with mk chars)
3-any chances to add stages like mvc2? 3d levels with 2d sprites and maybe 3d fxs too?
4-how about diferent chars on a same slot(like mkt) press select to change it
5-how many buttons? Just 6 ? Or you going to add more? Select and the the L2 ,R2!
6-in this template will be a example full game? Like mugen kfm game?

Thanks, let me answer before I go to work. ^^

1- You just tell the parts of the stage to follow the camera in a percent movement. 100% means it follows camera completely (aka mountains etc), 20% means very close to camera etc. More on that later. Just know that it's possible and I already show that it works in the first and third video. ^_^

2- You can create new, unique events. You are not limited to triggers or statedefs. You can have macros, functions, custom events that are all connected to eac other.

3- Yes, Rendering is still 3d, you can have anything 3d in the map. Even have a realistic lightning shadow system.

4- Possible, never went for menu stuff though. Will do such things at late stages. This template is still in babysteps. :)

5- You decide how many buttons you want. 2, 8, 20. Does not matter. I got 7 + 1 for testing for example.

6 - Yup.

Quote
This whole project seems really interesting in its own ways. I especially love how "Stage twisting" works in the engine, as it shows a "Oh shit" moment during a fight.

One question about Stage twisting: Does the color have to be red if a character changes to his/her evil form? I get that it gives off the feeling that you're really in for the fight of your life, but why not any other colors?

If I have to clarify what I mean, let's take Shadow Tiger's Lair from Killer Instinct (2013) for example: The color is dark blue at best (with some moonlight here and there), but it gives off an ominous feeling to an evil character (Shadow Jago).
,
Thank you. No you decide the color. It was just something to test. You can even change the colors of seperate parts of the stage if you so desire.

Don't worry about the colors. You can change a stage entirely. Color is just there to show off, with some storms going on etc. :)
Last Edit: December 04, 2015, 03:30:34 am by Achilleon
Re: PROJECT: Unreal Fighter 2D (Fighting Game Template for Unreal 4 Engine)
#30  December 04, 2015, 03:31:45 am
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Just to let you know for future reference, there is a modify button like down there on your posts. Just saying so that you don't have to double post, and instead keep it a single (though more longer) post.
Re: PROJECT: Unreal Fighter 2D (Fighting Game Template for Unreal 4 Engine)
#31  December 04, 2015, 03:41:43 am
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I still have some amounts of question s but i say them another hours...most of them are based on mugen limitations ,about regular time of adaptation and etc..i have my plans to make a originak fight game and this may be the tecnology i need to made it...
letter to myself:forgeting about a credit can make a apocalipse! :v
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Re: PROJECT: Unreal Fighter 2D (Fighting Game Template for Unreal 4 Engine)
#32  December 04, 2015, 03:55:53 am
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Just to let you know for future reference, there is a modify button like down there on your posts. Just saying so that you don't have to double post, and instead keep it a single (though more longer) post.
Double posting is fine in this case because A) It's informative and not trivial and B) writing such long posts with multiple quotes becomes very hard (and nearly impossible to handle on mobile)
Re: PROJECT: Unreal Fighter 2D (Fighting Game Template for Unreal 4 Engine)
#33  December 04, 2015, 04:00:37 am
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ive been interested in working with UE4 for awhile, im excited to see what you can do

(dude imagine what sprite artists can do without all the mugen bullcrap limitations with that engine, especially HD sprites)
Re: PROJECT: Unreal Fighter 2D (Fighting Game Template for Unreal 4 Engine)
#34  December 04, 2015, 04:49:57 am
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If you get to a point where you'd like your own board(s) in Beyond MUGEN just let me know. This looks very interesting and I wish you the best of luck.

Bea

Re: PROJECT: Unreal Fighter 2D (Fighting Game Template for Unreal 4 Engine)
#35  December 04, 2015, 10:03:04 am
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For emulating palettes, you will have to code some sort of pixel shader to replace the colours based on a criteria.
For some monogame tests I have run, I used the red hue in the sprite to determine the colour row in the colour table texture and then moved to the selected line to get that particular palette colour.

I will try to post code and examples tonight. It should be possible to implement this with the actual sprite colours as indexes instead of red hues, but you can get false positives and end up picking a wrong colour as colours get converted to float values in the pixel shaders.
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Re: PROJECT: Unreal Fighter 2D (Fighting Game Template for Unreal 4 Engine)
#36  December 04, 2015, 01:36:45 pm
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This looks amazing! But it´s possible with this engine do animations with only a image? For example rotation, desplacement, zoom or perspectives? With mugen it´s impossible and this thing increment the height of the archives too much. This thing it´s for create lifebars or screenpacks. Thank you very much for your effort and good luck with the project!
Re: PROJECT: Unreal Fighter 2D (Fighting Game Template for Unreal 4 Engine)
#37  December 04, 2015, 03:49:25 pm
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Just to let you know for future reference, there is a modify button like down there on your posts. Just saying so that you don't have to double post, and instead keep it a single (though more longer) post.

Thank you! I was rushing to work so I didn't have the time to edit seperately! That's what I had been doing so far. ^_^

ive been interested in working with UE4 for awhile, im excited to see what you can do

(dude imagine what sprite artists can do without all the mugen bullcrap limitations with that engine, especially HD sprites)

I witness so many slow downs and frame drops when it comes to high poly stuff so yeah.

Currently Unreal laughs its ass off right into my face as I work with SF Alpha Sprites and Characters. Since the Engine is meant to work optimized on highly specialized material functioned materials and 3d assets, it would still continue to and probably die from laughing too much. =)

If you get to a point where you'd like your own board(s) in Beyond MUGEN just let me know. This looks very interesting and I wish you the best of luck.

I really appreciate such generosity Mr Just No Point. Though for now this little post might be enough what little progress I have made. =)

For emulating palettes, you will have to code some sort of pixel shader to replace the colours based on a criteria.
For some monogame tests I have run, I used the red hue in the sprite to determine the colour row in the colour table texture and then moved to the selected line to get that particular palette colour.

I will try to post code and examples tonight. It should be possible to implement this with the actual sprite colours as indexes instead of red hues, but you can get false positives and end up picking a wrong colour as colours get converted to float values in the pixel shaders.

In unreal you can have 4 channels to be able to edit colors, Blue, Green, Red and Alpha. Many professionals in Unreal 4 have one texture with 4 information to use for various texture elements. I will "soon" get to that point too hopefully. :)

This looks amazing! But it´s possible with this engine do animations with only a image? For example rotation, desplacement, zoom or perspectives? With mugen it´s impossible and this thing increment the height of the archives too much. This thing it´s for create lifebars or screenpacks. Thank you very much for your effort and good luck with the project!

Thank you. Though I am afraid Unreal is not really an animation creation tool, make it 3d or 2d. I am afraid I am not really that experienced on those stuff you mention so I can't answer properly. Sorry!

Re: PROJECT: Unreal Fighter 2D (Fighting Game Template for Unreal 4 Engine)
#38  December 04, 2015, 05:56:06 pm
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This looks really promising. I know there's going to be more help than you need, but I gladly collaborate with some knowledge if its needed.
Re: PROJECT: Unreal Fighter 2D (Fighting Game Template for Unreal 4 Engine)
#39  December 05, 2015, 12:40:44 am
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Wait, what's the problem with palettes? It's not hard to build a palette-applying system with 8-bit PNGs. I did it twice in the past few weeks― once in Javascript and another in PHP. PM me if you want the source to see how applying a .ACT file works. It shouldn't be too hard to build an extension for it in UE. In fact, it's a hell of a lot easier than doing it in JS or PHP.

Bea

Re: PROJECT: Unreal Fighter 2D (Fighting Game Template for Unreal 4 Engine)
#40  December 05, 2015, 02:24:18 am
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Wait, what's the problem with palettes? It's not hard to build a palette-applying system with 8-bit PNGs. I did it twice in the past few weeks― once in Javascript and another in PHP. PM me if you want the source to see how applying a .ACT file works. It shouldn't be too hard to build an extension for it in UE. In fact, it's a hell of a lot easier than doing it in JS or PHP.

8 bit PNGs get converted to true colour when loaded as textures in 3D engines. You lose the palette information.
Most if not all recent video cards can no longer deal with 8 bit colour images and palettes.
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