Okay, since mfg changed up their forum and stuff, do ppl here allow stealing of creations now? Not to sound like a thief, just a thought since I was creating a screenpack (coding is a bitch) and ran into a lot of material I could've taken from other screenpacks. If not, I could simply try to get ahold of the creators. My only problem is that some creators speak in different languages
...as far as the rules of the forum and the mods and admins are concerned, giving credit is all you need to do.as far as the actual userbase not flaming you off the face of the planet, actual permission is required.Up to you I guess.
Why do you even have to steal codes? that wouldn't make you a creator.Learn on your own and post for help in the help section when you need it.
Indeed.You can just grab the code from another screenpack, but you will be flamed like hell (But it's still within the forum rules), or you can ask for permission and after permission is granted grab the code.
Shin'ichi Kudo said, September 13, 2007, 07:54:59 amWhy do you even have to steal codes? that wouldn't make you a creator.Learn on your own and post for help in the help section when you need it.oh no, you got it all wrong lol. I just got into coding and am learning how to code. I'm just taking sprites from other screenpacks and coding it myself. Don't worry, I'm not taking any coding . It's all me, but I might just need permission to use their materials like sprites and such. I may need some help w/ coding, so i'm also trying to get a hold of the creators as well.
Sprites are not that big of a deal really. Unless edits or something. You want to let the author know regardless.Actually I find it funny people would flame you for taking code from a screenpack as well. I mean can you even really call that stuff code?
What he said pretty much covers it regarding screenpacks. I guess if you ripped off a look of someone's screenpack then you'd have to deal with them coming at you quite pissed. The real issue will lie more with lifebars if anything as those usually involve some editing to get them to work in mugen just right.
Just No Point said, September 13, 2007, 06:39:25 pmSprites are not that big of a deal really. Unless edits or something. You want to let the author know regardless.Actually I find it funny people would flame you for taking code from a screenpack as well. I mean can you even really call that stuff code? So screenpacks creators doesn't have the same respect as a char creator?
Huh, what?Sprites are not a big deal for characters either. I didn't say anything about respect.He should let the author know of course.Your classifications of disrespect are odd to me =P
Just No Point said, September 13, 2007, 06:39:25 pmActually I find it funny people would flame you for taking code from a screenpack as well. I mean can you even really call that stuff code? I said that because of that part of yuour post, but nevermind.
Er, either you have never attempted to make a screenpack, or you are one of the most anal "code theft is bad" guys in the world!
What?Are you fucking blind?I never said anything about "code thief" or something related, dude.geez, and people says i'm dumb.
aLuCaRd_X said, September 13, 2007, 07:16:22 pmJust No Point said, September 13, 2007, 06:39:25 pmSprites are not that big of a deal really. Unless edits or something. You want to let the author know regardless.Actually I find it funny people would flame you for taking code from a screenpack as well. I mean can you even really call that stuff code? So screenpacks creators doesn't have the same respect as a char creator? aLuCaRd_X said, September 13, 2007, 07:32:35 pmJust No Point said, September 13, 2007, 06:39:25 pmActually I find it funny people would flame you for taking code from a screenpack as well. I mean can you even really call that stuff code? I said that because of that part of yuour post, but nevermind.Yes I am blind when you are not very clear. I thought you were referring to code theft and respect correlation. But instead it seems you were simply asking me if I have less respect for a screenpack maker since it is simpler to make than a character.You have posted quite a bit on the "evils" of using other's code so I jumped the gun here and assumed that was what you spoke of yet again.So to answer your question, No, I don't have less respect for screenpack makers. I have identical respect that goes up or down if I get to "know them" better.For example, a great character maker with a bad attitude I would have less respect for than a palette swapping screenpack maker that is nice any day.
TDS, Al is speaking about how you said "can you even call that code" and "stealing from a screenpack isn't worth flaming" (which is understandable and correct enough, although badly worded). Actually you can call that code, but what it was supposed to sound like is "it's easy enough for someone who is doing it seriously to not need to 'steal' it from others" and "stealing from screenpacks can only be small things, so nobody would flame for that". Basically. Do I translate right ? Well, you saying "you can't even call that code" and "nobody would care enough about screenpacks to flame" is what Al reacted to, as he took that for disrespect. Which can easily be understood, frankly.
Just No Point said, September 13, 2007, 06:39:25 pmSprites are not that big of a deal really. Unless edits or something. You want to let the author know regardless.Actually I find it funny people would flame you for taking code from a screenpack as well. I mean can you even really call that stuff code? good point, good point. thnx for all the info meaning everyone as well as you. So yeah, hopefully, if I DO release it, I will give consent to all the creators. The only concern I have is if I can't contact some of the creators, then I release it, then they said I can't use it and drama will unfold, so yeah. I'm not so sure about releasing it as of yet since it may be too good lol. and besides, I should hold onto good hi-res screenpacks for now until more good or decent hi-res screenpacks come out, because everyone will probably be all over it and a certain individual may lose my respect, so i might wanna wait and get a lil more feedback once i'm done.
I have to say this.Unless you draw your own sprites and create your own code, file for intellectual properties and copyrights of design for your fighters, your "mugen creations" will NEVER, EEEEVERRRR be YOUR creations. Using licensed sprites with homemade code justifies nothing. Evil Ken, POTS's Shin Akuma, cheap-ass Nightmare Broli, not even my creations...it justifies NOOOTHING. They can only be fanmade fighters. Flagging stolen code and sprites is a waste of time. If you know you are the true creator and your counterparts, leave it at that. ........It only marks a mugen author as an advance amateur until he steps in the ring of C++.Nevertheless, stealing code (like 3 CNS files or something) and tweaking one phrase of it is a no-no. I think it's ok to overlook someone's code and set your statedefs like theirs so you can understand what does what and what goes where...but, stealing code isn't going to teach you shit.Gintoki said, September 13, 2007, 07:54:59 amWhy do you even have to steal codes? that wouldn't make you a creator.Learn on your own and post for help in the help section when you need it.That very issue is why some steal code in the first place; no feedback.
Quoteuntil he steps in the ring of C++.That's not really relevant. Simple as Mugen coding might be, the process is still the same. And, you do consider those problems in communities centered around more developped languages ; someone who creates a copy of, random example, Solitaire, can't claim the "game" named Solitaire to be his own, but he can say the "code" is, for this particular edition. People just don't bother with it seeing how it's not really advanced coding. In the Mugen community specifically, people do react because the attitude of taking other people's stuff and call it your own is seen too often, and people decided it was lame and started reacting after a while. That happened because it was still actually possible to enforce, what with the community being not really big and all. More people try to come in, but as copy-paste is still very present, the results are 99% shit.QuoteWhy do you even have to steal codes? that wouldn't make you a creator.Creator or not isn't the matter, people who do that can easily be doing so for the result and not care about being called a creator as long as they have a flying SSJ25 Goku or whatever. It's a random explanation but just something that simple removes that argument you used. Yet, that's exactly the reason 99% of the creations are usually downright shit.
But even if you draw your own sprites and make your own code people will still do whatever they want with them because once it's relesed on the internet it belongs to everyone except you.
Baiken said, September 25, 2007, 04:18:03 amThat's not really relevant. Simple as Mugen coding might be, the process is still the same.Yes it is, but the things you can do with it are much more limited, and attacks are extremely recurring unlike C++. and even in C++, people learn from c&p at the beginning
To clear up a detail : I don't mind copy-pasting in itself. I mind the result (edit - including regarding the person doing it). Some people might've thought I was fully teaming up with certain others even though I'm pretty certain I never fully stated my personnal opinion on all this shit.
CCI Walachia said, September 25, 2007, 06:09:17 amBut even if you draw your own sprites and make your own code people will still do whatever they want with them because once it's relesed on the internet it belongs to everyone except you. If your designings are legally binding and you have strong feelings of protecting them at all costs, you either sue or don't release them (at least for mugen, create your own engine). Simple.
The impossibility of stoping something doesn't make it right. Other people's stupidity should theorically not be a reason to stop from doing things you like. What you're saying really sounds like what would say those who try to find excuses for stealing and desecrating and so, the "lol you can't stop me, what ya gonna do, sue me" type.
Baiken said, September 25, 2007, 05:14:50 pmThe impossibility of stoping something doesn't make it right. Other people's stupidity should theorically not be a reason to stop from doing things you like. What you're saying really sounds like what would say those who try to find excuses for stealing and desecrating and so, the "lol you can't stop me, what ya gonna do, sue me" type.Like I said, if a mugen author has second opinions about his "creations" being ripped off, why bother coding for MUGEN? It's inevitable of chars getting raped in the mugen world. Why not go legit and start coding for real....and by real, I mean start learning the C/C++ languages.The MUGEN engine has it's share of problems, but coding for it can be ridiculously easy if you apply coding skills from top-shell languages. meh....I'm rambling. In short, design creations for MUGEN if you don't plan to make some type of future out of them. Otherwise get a bachelor's degree in computer science and take your homebrew amateur skills to a new plane....(...just think of the ironic paradox of working for a third-party company like Capcom, designing characters for a particular fighting game, and taking a trip down memory lane on your lunchbreak by revisiting the mugenguild only to stumble among an author ripping YOUR stuff... )
Question, why do you keep pitting more regular languages in Mugen matters ? It's totally useless, and, well, pretty much stupid to base all your argument on saying that Mugen coding sucks compared to C++ and so : we're talking about a community here, not about coding. It's completely unrelated to try to sound like a computer science veteran. A number of those who code on Mugen already do regular coding (I do, Bia does, Messatsu does, Dark Saviour does, [E] does...)
CCI Walachia said, September 25, 2007, 06:09:17 am...once it's relesed on the internet it belongs to everyone except you. Tell that to the RIAA.
#Shaun said, September 25, 2007, 06:16:26 pmLike I said, if a mugen author has second opinions about his "creations" being ripped off, why bother coding for MUGEN? It's inevitable of chars getting raped in the mugen world. Why not go legit and start coding for real....and by real, I mean start learning the C/C++ languages.Because I'm spending enough time drawing the sprites, sequencing the music, and designing the gameplay (in terms of how the end result functions), so I don't want to spend more time learning tedious programming to put it all together.
QuoteIt only marks a mugen author as an advance amateur until he steps in the ring of C++.I don't really see the difference. Mugen protects you from a lot of C's pitfalls by limiting a number of CS type stuff one might do. The really complicated stuff in Mugen is harder to do in C++ because you're not allowed a (or creating one anyway) straight-forward way of accomplishing it. You have to work within the limits of the language. A lot of the things I've tried to do in Mugen that I know are possible, but are really difficult to do, I wouldn't hand over to a C++ fighter and expect them to be able to do it.
Baiken said, September 25, 2007, 10:18:34 pmQuestion, why do you keep pitting more regular languages in Mugen matters ? It's totally useless, and, well, pretty much stupid to base all your argument on saying that Mugen coding sucks compared to C++ and so : we're talking about a community here, not about coding. It's completely unrelated to try to sound like a computer science veteran. A number of those who code on Mugen already do regular coding (I do, Bia does, Messatsu does, Dark Saviour does, [E] does...) ??? I don't recall saying MUGEN coding sucks compared to C++ , nor am I trying to be a coding vet, buddy(which I am definitely not).What I'm saying is mugen has limits in its coding, but is limitless in accessibility. There is a huge difference designing/programming creations for the mugen engine and designing/programming for something else.....and the difference is that anyone can access what you release in the mugen world (anyone with half a brain for that matter). It's much easier to learn and decipher than C++ (and further more, more accessible). If the people who download your stuff know how to code and want to do something immoral, they can and will. Legitimizing your stuff within in a language not completely open-source for all to see is how one can lessen the stress of having your creations stolen. I'm willing to bet there are more people in the mugen community who can recognize/hack code for mugen creations Quotewe're talking about a community here, not about coding. It's completely unrelated to try to sound like a computer science veteran. This topic's caption is about "stealing" creations, right? If your coding/designing effort is put into an easily obtainable resource such as mugen, don't say no one warned ya about the dangers that come with it. I know this isn't just limited to mugen, but it is probably the easiest to grasp.....I'm rambling yet again. I guess the thing is, I see a hell of a lot of effort from authors put into their chars in the community. While I'm glad I see people pushing the limits (teaches me a lot I know that) it's practically pointless to bitch and moan about legitimacy in an area that has no real legitimacy. ....and yet, this could all be bullshit. Agree or disagree. I don't care. I've made my point somewhere in all that rambling.::back to debugging::
QuoteThis topic's caption is about "stealing" creations, right? If your coding/designing effort is put into an easily obtainable resource such as mugen, don't say no one warned ya about the dangers that come with it. I know this isn't just limited to mugen, but it is probably the easiest to grasp.=>QuoteThe impossibility of stoping something doesn't make it right. Other people's stupidity should theorically not be a reason to stop from doing things you like. What you're saying really sounds like what would say those who try to find excuses for stealing and desecrating and so, the "lol you can't stop me, what ya gonna do, sue me" type.I already addressed that, "buddy". Nobody is saying we weren't warned about the dangers of it.People don't bitch and moan about the legitimacy of things. People bitch and moan about others not sharing their pokemans, get your facts straight.
This has sadly turned into a battlefield for the pro-"righteous".Maybe it should be locked.@OP, don't use words like "stealing"stealing is wrong, and borrowing code/sprite is no longer considered as "stealing"
Blade Art said, September 28, 2007, 03:46:41 pmThis has sadly turned into a battlefield for the pro-"righteous".Maybe it should be locked.Because people are saying things contrary to your view of "It's over! We won!"?Quote@OP, don't use words like "stealing"stealing is wrong, and borrowing code/sprite is no longer considered as "stealing"In fact it is still regarded as stealing by a huge part of this forum, and another large part regards it as theft still if credit is not at least given. Not to mention perhaps he'd rather not be on edge with the rest of the mugen community and would hope for a middle ground he can utilize.Mind you too there's little need for your post in this whole mess, and if you can't contribute anything that another attempt at being a moderator then just be quiet Cobra.As for the actual topic, the "risks" are things we are all aware of, even other communities. Regardless people expect some decorum from their fellow members to not stab them in the back if they've made a stance clear. This isn't like the early days of mugen where there was no documentation to use and people learned off each other: there's plenty of resources and help, as well as a slew of open source material.In other words there's no need to steal, just someone making a choice to take a shortcut. Just because you can take that shortcut though doesn't make that right, and you have to look at the situation from all sides, including the person you're taking stuff from, and realize he might have his own reasons for wanting rights over his work, and hopefully respect them.There's never ever been a question of if you can or can not do anything. SFO can screw us and Capcom over for example: does that make them justified?An even better point is to keep in mind you may very well run into these folks you took from elsewhere online, or worse need their assistance with something, and you really want to contend with them being legitimately sore with you because you "showed them how wrong their points were"? (Not a quote of you there, just something that has been said before though and does jive with the whole "stealing: so what?" mentality :\)
QuoteThis has sadly turned into a battlefield for the pro-"righteous".Obviously when a topic is meant to state and discuss one's opinions about stealing, there are going to be... discussions. Or do you hate that everyone isn't favoring your little lie of a propaganda ? You need to barge in to not add anything worthy, as usual, and request for a lock for no reason. And as usual, you'll then claim you haven't been doing any flamebait.Quotedon't use words like "stealing"Sure On ne dit pas aveugle, on dit non-voyant.Quoteand borrowing code/sprite is no longer considered as "stealing"Borrowing code/sprites has never been considered theft, but obviously you don't even know what it is that people have been talking about all this time. Hell, obviously you didn't even read the topic, judging by your first sentence. Come on, it's not that hard, we're only on page 2 ! We haven't brought the topic to 140 pages yet.Oh, and I thought I heard that you were supposed to behave.
Baiken said, September 28, 2007, 05:15:01 pmObviously when a topic is meant to state and discuss one's opinions about stealing"Obviously" mean to debate? Let me laugh out loud. The guy is just asking if he can borrow some particular sprites from a particular screenpack, how is he asking for a debate? The answer according to the newly established rules should have been clearly "Yes you can /period", but instead, he was threatened of being righteously flamed and people comment on how it is "wrong".I am sadened by how some people can't let it go. If you don't agree with the rules, no one forces you to stay here.QuoteOh, and I thought I heard that you were supposed to behave.You are not qualified to judge me. You've always have been a flamer as a member. Even when you were a mod, you couldn't help flaming at everyone who wouldn't agree to you POV and abusing your powers, hence why you had to quit the staff. Even tho your behaviour has improved since the new rules have been established, I won't take any lesson from you.Sepp said, September 28, 2007, 05:32:18 pmYep. I've read the rules and I'm doing nothing against the rule. Please stop this now.
Quotebut instead, he was threatened of being righteously flamed and people comment on how it is "wrong".Read again and remove your moronic comprehension filters.QuoteYou are not qualified to judge me.Because you are qualified to judge me ?QuoteYou've always have been a flamer as a member.That false, but you have.QuoteEven tho your behaviour has improved since the new rules have been establishedMy behavior has never changed. Well, since you still can't read, I can't expect you to understand. You thinking I did change can only prove you're the one who's comprehension changes at random - for no reason.QuoteI've read the rules and I'm doing nothing against the rule. Please stop this now.You're flamebaiting and trolling, and you're acting like a mod, basically. I believe each of those are against the rules - at least, against common sense. Also, telling an admin that you're not breaking the rules when he says otherwise is pretty stupid. He's the one who warned you about your behavior to begin with. Not mine. Yours.
Blade Art said, September 28, 2007, 06:14:40 pmBaiken said, September 28, 2007, 05:15:01 pmObviously when a topic is meant to state and discuss one's opinions about stealing"Obviously" mean to debate? Let me laugh out loud. The guy is just asking if he can borrow some particular sprites from a particular screenpack, how is he asking for a debate? The answer according to the newly established rules should have been clearly "Yes you can /period", but instead, he was threatened of being righteously flamed and people comment on how it is "wrong".I am sadened by how some people can't let it go. If you don't agree with the rules, no one forces you to stay here.QuoteOh, and I thought I heard that you were supposed to behave.You are not qualified to judge me. You've always have been a flamer as a member. Even when you were a mod, you couldn't help flaming at everyone who wouldn't agree to you POV and abusing your powers, hence why you had to quit the staff. Even tho your behaviour has improved since the new rules have been established, I won't take any lesson from you.Sepp said, September 28, 2007, 05:32:18 pmYep. I've read the rules and I'm doing nothing against the rule. Please stop this now. ummmmm let me put it this way this forums rules arent the rules of the community, so just shove it when you say that its allowed, how in hell does it suddenly become ok to steal just because rules change doesnt mean morals will change, you keep saying that the rules allow it well just because i can legally bang my girlfriend doesnt mean i wont dissrespect her religious wishes, ie rules of one thing change doesnt mean that its still ok to do it if its not moral to people
Blade Art said, September 28, 2007, 06:14:40 pm"Obviously" mean to debate? Let me laugh out loud. The guy is just asking if he can borrow some particular sprites from a particular screenpack, how is he asking for a debate? The answer according to the newly established rules should have been clearly "Yes you can /period", but instead, he was threatened of being righteously flamed and people comment on how it is "wrong".The answer of the dude was already answered, and you can't just stop posting? I mean nobody is flaming the guy that started this topic, the one that started the "debate" was #shaun with his "zomg i kan kode c++ lolwtf" when even a monkey or me can code shit in c++ and then you started posting "This has sadly turned into a battlefield for the pro-"righteous"." when nobody was saying something about stealing sprites IIRC.Blade Art said, September 28, 2007, 06:14:40 pmYou are not qualified to judge me. You've always have been a flamer as a member. Even when you were a mod, you couldn't help flaming at everyone who wouldn't agree to you POV and abusing your powers, hence why you had to quit the staff. Even tho your behaviour has improved since the new rules have been established, I won't take any lesson from you.Well, i can say something about that, it's impossible not to flame someone that's not smart enough to stop posting stupid topics, request stuff, steals something (because that were the rules back then) or do something increideby stupid.Seriously, you come here like if you were someone mature enough to understand the topic at hand, but every post of you leads tu a freaking flame war, maybe you should stop posting for a while, read the whole topic before posting or even better think before posting anything.
Quote"zomg i kan kode c++ lolwtf" when even a monkey or me can code shit in c++ That statement is fail.
Blade Art said, September 28, 2007, 06:14:40 pmEven when you were a mod, you couldn't help flaming at everyone who wouldn't agree to you POV and abusing your powers, hence why you had to quit the staff.No times 3. He didn't flame everyone with different opinions, he didn't abuse his powers and he didn't have to quit the staff.QuoteI won't take any lesson from you.Aw.QuoteI've read the rules and I'm doing nothing against the rule. Please stop this now. * Sepp stops this now.BladeArt's account restricted to read-only for the next two months (60 days).
Quotewhen nobody was saying something about stealing sprites IIRC.Actually, to be exact the issue was mentionned - by Felineki and Edward the Great for examples. But it is correct that it never was a "battlefield for the pro-righteous". Some people have stated their opinions, and I've seen little of them trying to enforce them with a hammer. What was said was opinions about people getting ripped off and other people who might prepare to be seen as a black sheep in the community (with or without explanations), but I don't think I've seen anybody here try to go "change the rules you bastards" or fully act as if the old rules were still in place.Granted, there are a number of people who still disagree on a personnal level with the current orientation of the forum, but most of them are aware that it still is how the new rules of are here. Well, judging by the other poll, there are more people who want it back to how it was previously, but that's another topic.QuoteSepp stops thisI just tried to say that out loud quickly 10 times in a row QuoteNo times 3. He didn't flame everyone with different opinions, he didn't abuse his powers and he didn't have to quit the staff.Thank you. Sincerely.
And, just to be clear, I was referring to theoretical sprites that would be 100% done by me, not stuff that was ripped from a pre-existing game, or stuff that was ripped from a pre-existing game and then edited.
felineki said, September 29, 2007, 01:02:32 amAnd, just to be clear, I was referring to theoretical sprites that would be 100% done by me, not stuff that was ripped from a pre-existing game, or stuff that was ripped from a pre-existing game and then edited.completely unrelated but i want the old topic at ahnd to die and talk about something slightly different, if you are a decent sprite editor, there is no difference between both bolded situations.
You know....I just have a serious thought about the code stealing and stuff like that. I only know how to work on the preintro code and that pretty much it. But isn't the code actually belong to Mugen. I mean we can work and study the code all we want to see how it will work out, but it seem to me that it actually all belong to Elecbyte, and since we ain't respecting those guys wishes....well don't you guys think it pretty pointless about arguing about who steal codes from who. Since they are the guys who supply us with the code to work on, and we have to learn how to use it. So in other word, every single code we try to claim actually belong to those Elecbyte guys.If anybody think otherwise, please enlighten me.
This has come up time and time again. Fact is if you release it. The public has it. They do what they want with it. If they get flame so what. They goto places where they don't get flamed.Also the topic has been answered a long time ago.
my opinion is that get trustworthy beta testers for the characters like the modsand perhaps only release the full version of ur characters jus my opinion
DizzySoldier said, October 24, 2007, 09:04:53 pmBut isn't the code actually belong to Mugen.Um, no. Please learn a few things about how programming works and come back later, thanks.
ITT, people post what they thought about when shaving a beard they're too young to have and never bothered to check if there weren't other people who already thought of it 8 years ago.
How did I miss this topic?! Anyway, since this is an old revival, I found this bit funny:Laxxe23 said, September 28, 2007, 06:39:57 pmummmmm let me put it this way this forums rules arent the rules of the community, so just shove it when you say that its allowed, how in hell does it suddenly become ok to steal just because rules change doesnt mean morals will change, you keep saying that the rules allow it well just because i can legally bang my girlfriend doesnt mean i wont dissrespect her religious wishes, ie rules of one thing change doesnt mean that its still ok to do it if its not moral to peopleHahaha, good ol' Laxxe, what would the world be like without you and your Lorax-like ways?
Kung_Fu_Man said, October 25, 2007, 01:12:20 amDizzySoldier said, October 24, 2007, 09:04:53 pmBut isn't the code actually belong to Mugen.Um, no. Please learn a few things about how programming works and come back later, thanks.Really? I might just do that. But then again, thanks to your name. I just have yet another thought. That Kung Fu Man that everybody was suppose to be using as a base. Well isn't that character usually belong to ElecByte, and since ElecByte saying stop using Mugen a long ass time ago, and we using Kung Fu Man as a base for coding and spriting, without respecting those guys wishes. Well it getting more obvious that arguing about code stealing is pretty pointless. I know Kung Fu Man is free source to everybody since ElecByte said so, but once ElecByte say stop using Mugen. It would also mean that Kung Fu Man is off limit too. Anyway, I don't actually support code stealing, I just don't give a damn about it. Well that my thought anyway, if anybody think otherwise, please enlighten me.
Quotef anybody think otherwise, please enlighten me.Baiken said, October 25, 2007, 01:40:29 amITT, people post what they thought about when shaving a beard they're too young to have and never bothered to check if there weren't other people who already thought of it 8 years ago.Don't say that when you don't actually care about how people could enlighten you.
Quotebut once ElecByte say stop using Mugen. It would also mean that Kung Fu Man is off limit too.Um, no. There's actually no terms of agreement on that at all, in fact "stop using mugen" extends to only the EXE. (Thus, a compatible clone would be fine running everything mugen can without incident).
Titiln said, October 25, 2007, 02:44:02 pmthat analogy was pretty badProbably, but you gotta question these kinda stuff. If the Elecbyte said to stop using Mugen, we should respect their wishes, yet we refuse to. Now the other creator who create character and such ask for the same respect as the Elecbyte people who make the program for Mugen. Kinda ironic when some creator said " You stole my code." While this creator refuse to stop using the program call Mugen from Elecbyte. I guess this is why the Higher up people in this forum thought that making thing open source would be a good idea. It either that or they just can't stand to deal with every creator problem.
Hey don't make excuses for us.The higher good or simple laziness had nothing do with it. We just wanted to get reveeeenge and see what would happen if we turned things upside down.Join RandomSelect, where the world is still whole, Creators get the respect they rightfully deserve, and logic reigns supreme. Especially recommended to fight sad feelings in your pants.
DizzySoldier said, October 25, 2007, 10:50:19 amKung_Fu_Man said, October 25, 2007, 01:12:20 amDizzySoldier said, October 24, 2007, 09:04:53 pmBut isn't the code actually belong to Mugen.Um, no. Please learn a few things about how programming works and come back later, thanks.Really? I might just do that. No need; I already did. For someone who knows "how programming works," Mugen code is so simple and has so little variation that it's preposterous to call code reuse thievery. Writing Mugen code amounts to placing pre-defined state controllers in sequential order and setting their pre-defined parameters. The fact that someone would reuse your code justifies your typing it up.Oh, I forgot to mention: you are pretty much right barring semantics. Mugen code serves no purpose whatsoever besides to be interpreted by Mugen. There is no extensibility, and no "creation" is marketable. It is always the case that any Mugen code does have an author or authors, but it's important to keep in mind just what these authors have done. They have made a glorified configuration file. If their purpose for doing so was to receive recognition and be the proud owner of dubiously alleged intellectual property, then they've chosen the wrong activity to satisfy that need.
Uh ? If Eclipse went down and the licence died, it would never mean Java dies along. The program is an interpreter, the language is separated. The licence of the program isn't related to something as abstract as a suite of letters and numbers and symbols.
Are you "missing the point" or what? It's just that people should put into perspective what Mugen code is before they act like they've invented something by reproducing content from 10-year-old video games with a program expressly made to do just that. It really is baffling that there are people who would seek to prevent others from reusing work of this sort that they've done. One would think, without prior knowledge of the Mugen community's bloody history, that this type of reuse would be one of the primary reasons for writing the code, and, for some authors, the only practical reason.
One would think one would bother to look around at other communities akin to this one and notice that those that do have similar standings and do nothing but modify actual files for some dead game or whatever...well, you'd notice that unless they're mega popular, the idea of "what I put labor into is mine don't steal without permission" is not too goddamn uncommon and not nearly as contested as it gets here.Not to mention Dave, as one of the people so much in support of this movement you've yet to do shit with it, despite your boasting of how you would make exact SF2 and SFA3 characters. So hey, all these resources available, why don't you? Hmmm.And keep winane out of this, I'm pretty sure if he wanted to be personally involved in us shouting at each other he could find his own way in just fine.
Kung_Fu_Man said, October 25, 2007, 10:39:46 pmNot to mention Dave, as one of the people so much in support of this movement you've yet to do shit with it, despite your boasting of how you would make exact SF2 and SFA3 characters. So hey, all these resources available, why don't you? Hmmm.Haha, now that's just plain changing the subject. Anyway, that would entail doing a bunch of labor that I don't want to spend my time on. Besides, available resources aren't necessarily useful at all. Far more labor would be spent obtaining the required data from the game. If there existed tools to adequately automate the process, I just might do it!
QuoteFar more labor would be spent obtaining the required data from the game.I was hoping you'd said that. You do realize this, combined with any originality put into the character, is what most creators care about being stolen that just a few miscellaneous states in a cns file.Even if you wing a character, unless you're pulling things out of your ass there's a lot of work involved to do it right, and test, and do again, and test. Not everyone wants that stolen so readily.An artist doesn't worry you'll steal his colors. He worries more about someone stealing whole parts of the painting.
OK, just as long as you don't bring up how many awful characters ignorant thieves make.Kung_Fu_Man said, October 25, 2007, 10:53:56 pmAn artist doesn't worry you'll steal his colors. He worries more about someone stealing whole parts of the painting.I could use a scanner to scan the pages of a book page by page, use OCR software to convert the images to text, repair all the errors, and distribute it as a PDF file with bookmarks. I would have had to apply knowledge of scanners, OCR software, and Adobe Acrobat. This would be very tedious! You would call me an artist and fight for my rights!
While what you described sounds a lot like a character conversion, would you care to tell me if the author of said book would think of your .PDF conversion as fanart?
is it any different if you stole the book to scan it; used someone else's scanner, decided to cut a few chapters and changed a lot of the wording to become propaganda?
the original author did not really had time to read your book, so it is not like he aproves of the changes or something.
No, they would call it piracy!I have nothing more to add besides, do whatever the hell you want with your Mugen characters.
[E]arly Morning Poison said, October 25, 2007, 11:22:29 pmthe original author did not really had time to read your book, so it is not like he aproves of the changes or something.I fail to see the point you are trying to make.In addition, make sense, please.
I think he's suggesting that Mugen characters* are poor, self-satisfying renditions of the originals instead of accurate copies like I was suggesting. Moreover, the source game was stolen to begin with (hello emulator and ROM), and the authors of the actual game (e.g., Darkstalkers) didn't approve anything the Mugen developer did. They just allegedly approved not-for-profit reuse! Even so, they didn't confer any rights of their IP to the Mugen developer, dispite the popular misconception. * EXCEPT DRAGON CLAW BY REU GAAAAAAAAW
DavidGee said, October 25, 2007, 11:03:23 pmI could use a scanner to scan the pages of a book page by page, use OCR software to convert the images to text, repair all the errors, and distribute it as a PDF file with bookmarks. I would have had to apply knowledge of scanners, OCR software, and Adobe Acrobat. This would be very tedious! You would call me an artist and fight for my rights! QOTD material.
Well this has restarted. I have a dead horse somewhere would someone like to beat it for a while?A lot of us don't mind our work being taken. A simple thanks in the credits is often enough to make people happy. Just acknowledgement that you wouldn't have made Y if they hadn't made X first. A nod to the effort put in. No copyright bollocks nothing like that. Just gratitude for the fact that you had FUN playing his piece of work and wanted to attempt to make it better. Or change it in some way.Your work does not need to be locked down in order for someone to appreciate it.The only time i really get ratted is when someone reuploads something but all they've done is put their name in the readme. That should recieve no love ever.
Cyanide said, October 26, 2007, 01:08:52 amI have a dead horse somewhere would someone like to beat it for a while?I think even in the mere year I've been lurking here it's been obliterated into some soil going into some grass roots, some glue stuck on some ancient pre-school project in a attic, and maybe a wig collecting dust in the rubble pile created when they demolished the shop. Seriously, it's been seven years now, and some people (new or not) actually think that they can make people that have been around here nearly as long change their minds on a subject that's been argued about for about six years? We really have no real replacements for most of the good creators of the community, do we.
Hey at least I'm more eloquent now! There could also be newcomers reading. I went to search for the last PDF argument I made, but we can't search the old forum.Anyway, it's been proven that you can do whatever you want with Mugen stuff on this forum. It's also been proven that people give credit where credit is due. (And if somehow they don't, life goes on, preferably unchanged.) Oh, the horror!Claws said, October 26, 2007, 02:02:16 amWe really have no real replacements for most of the good creators of the community, do we.Yeah, I wouldn't make characters that have already been made before if I knew someone would steal my code either. Wait... a more likely deterrent for good newcomers might be the very fact that inane discussion like this thread is so pervasive around here, and there are really no organized efforts to actually do something. EDIT: Plus there's the fact that Mugen is indeed a 7 year old illegal hacked abandonware game engine, and 2D fighting games have been aging the whole time. So you want to program video games? For one thing, it's much easier these days to just make your own closed-source game, and secondly, you can make mods of commercial PC games like Half-Life 2 Source.
Dave, you're officially in love with your own voice. It's not a witty voice, or all that intelligent, but you love it anyway I guess, because love is blind.Or some shit. Whatever, the subject I'm rambling on at the start of this post is surely better than this pointless topic.
What is with the unfounded personal attacks, anyway? Everything I've said is a response to something else and usually makes an important point. What do you want me to do? Let stupid shit like that stand? Moron.EDIT: Oh and I would estimate that you've made roughly 2000 times as many Mugen forum posts as I have. THAT'S A LOT OF POSTS. Next time you're going to make fun of me, at least do something besides project your self-image onto me.
Dave, Dave, Dave, his high postcounts past (over 5,000 here if memory serves) and present don't mean he's in love with his own voice it just shows Ash actually cares about MUGEN, thereby being infinitely more qualified to have anything to say about it than you are, for example.You haven't even done shit with MUGEN. Hah!
Kung_Fu_Man said, October 26, 2007, 04:02:58 amDave, you're officially in love with your own voice. It's not a witty voice, or all that intelligent, but you love it anyway I guess, because love is blind.Or some shit. Whatever, the subject I'm rambling on at the start of this post is surely better than this pointless topic.c'mon man, stop with the useless insult. It just making you look bad. David only saying what he believe, and truthfully he make some good point. For starter, he stated that Mugen interpret the character coding, if Mugen cannot interpret it, then the Character just won't work. For example, if there is no code interpretation for moving forward or backward in Mugen, and we code into the character to move forward and backward. The Mugen program just won't read it. Because a code like that does not exist in the Mugen program. Same thing with ShugenDo, at first the character couldn't even fly in there because a coding like that does not exist in ShugenDo yet. Then the developer program it into the ShugenDo so the character have the capability of flight. Which is pretty cool. Also remember when those ElecByte people claiming that they be coming back and saying that all the character the creator made will be render useless in their brand new Mugen. Since their Mugen won't interpret the coding that the hack Mugen interpret. This is why I believe the coding stuff actually belong to the Mugen program, and we have to learn how to use it. Anyway, I got some of my point across, so I'm just gonna watch how this thing turn out. Edit: Oh shoot, I even forgot to say this too: If anybody think otherwise, please enlighten me.
Oh is that so, Sebastian? Well, I wonder who has the most characters then! I've got 1871 and counting, and KFM couldn't top me on his best day.
Quoteif Mugen cannot interpret it, then the Character just won't work.The character can work with clones such as Shugendo or InfinityCat. The licence for Mugen being expired doesn't mean we can't keep creating files written with Mugen code. Shugendo and InfCat being able to interpret it in a similar way to what Mugen itself did would even be like an extra bonus.DavidGee said, October 25, 2007, 10:23:44 pmAre you "missing the point" or what?Not improbable ; I read this QuoteSince they are the guys who supply us with the code to work on, and we have to learn how to use it. So in other word, every single code we try to claim actually belong to those Elecbyte guys.as "what we type is Mugen language so it doesn't belong to us but to Elecbyte who provides us the Mugen language" which is invalid for the same reason you can't say "what I type in Java language doesn't belong to me but to the guy who created the Java language". Everyone who does some coding knows that this makes no sense. And that's how I interpreted his point.Since it doesn't make sense, do tell me if I missed his point. That or you didn't realize what I was responding to, which would be my fault as I didn't quote anything in particular (I was replying to you who were saying that he was "pretty much right barring semantics").... Or I missed who you were talking to when saying "you are pretty much right barring semantics". But then your tirade about Mugen code being useless without Mugen itself is pretty much irrelevant.QuoteI've got 1871 and counting*tsch* damn, these leechers and their omf24924chars select screen.
Just figured out your arguments were falling on deaf ears eh?Edit: My post is given relevance by directing you to this blog posthttp://importance.corante.com/archives/002300.html
The arguments aren't to convince KFM and Baiken of anything. It's to get them to make fools of themselves with brazen accusations of leeching, hypocrisy, tirades, etc. More actually though, this is a publically visible topic, the readers of which may be interested to know what relevant views there are and the reasoning (if any) behind them. They would probably also like to know how much of a leecher I am by using OOAD to make Mugen management software. DavidGee said, October 26, 2007, 05:31:32 pm
DavidGee said, October 26, 2007, 06:19:44 pmThey would probably also like to know how much of a leecher I am by using OOAD to make Mugen management software. http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/sarcasm
I don't suppose now would be a good time to point out that most people would take anything said in this topic seriously?
yeah, but when posts contradict each other they will have to read and use their criteria to decide what to believe.
You revived a thread from october to say somethiing as inane as that?.... are you drunk or something? You have been long enough to know not to do this.
"stealing" creations (Read 16599 times)
