then I present the idea that stereotypes are building material, and using only stereotypes usually doesnt leave you with good results.
Umezono said, November 25, 2013, 08:56:24 pmBeing Japanese and doing karate is not a stereotype. :(V)I take it you've never met a foreigner who believes all us Asians are martial artists? Because they're are a lot of them.Jmorphman said, November 25, 2013, 09:04:45 pmCapt. Segway said, November 25, 2013, 08:43:24 pmJust because he has some non-stereotypical traits doesn't mean he's not a stereotype. He's just not a full stereotype. Enjoying tea and being British does not make one a stereotype. If that was literally the only thing about him, then maybe. But he's not a stereotype, he's a fleshed out character.He has a stuffy British accent. He acts like a gentlemen. He has a mansion. He drinks tea. He has a butler that serves him tea. Everything else about him doesn't really have anything to do with him being presented as a British stereotype.Really the difference between stereotypes and archetypes is that stereotypes are what people IRL believe about other people. Archetypes are kinds of characters that are used in media.Tsundere is an archetype for example.
After 3 pages I´m way too confused. Difference between archetype and stereotype?? I´m not getting it what is what
Me either... I don't like discussing technicalities unless it's scientific. I just dropped it.I wouldn't consider being Japanese and doing karate a stereotype (by itself).Being Japanese, doing karate, and having all the traits of the "typical" karate-ka is.
I think Mgbnz made the best definition about those 2 terms. In the case of japanese karateka, I think it's a stereotype and an archetype at the same time. Mainly because of Ryu, if you ask me
That's why I said "japanese karateka" instead "all japanese are karateka", as I said before:Basara Kusanagi said, November 25, 2013, 07:27:03 pmA same country could have various stereotypes, all of you should know that
that in itself is not a stereotype because in a fighting game, everyone will know a "martial art" i quoted that because there will be characters who use no style at all (ie street fighting, dirty fighting, etc)now, in other games and media, there will be asians who dont know martial arts at all, its either all or nothing really when it comes to martial arts and a medium with(out) a martial arts theme will be mostly dependent on that most of the time
okay actual examplefat stereotypesBobpretty good, strange story and all , a fighter that is trying to find the perfect balance of weight and speedhe fights in hawaiian shirts and or sentai outfitsRufuswhat the fuck were they thinking, his main bio is that he is a fat biker from america and his favorite food is popcornHe fights in open shirts and his belly flops about all over the place
Nero D. said, November 25, 2013, 11:28:15 pmthat in itself is not a stereotype because in a fighting game, everyone will know a "martial art" melty blood
I think my favorite stereotype character is Mr. Jones, mostly because they fucked it up.He's a black dude with an afro and sunglasses, and his theme song has a 70's style beat, and he's always talking about geting funky. The designers changed their mind halfway through and gave him a Bruce Lee track suit and made his movelist be based on Jeet Kun Do.He's a two-in-one!
that's because he is made in mexico, most likely he is based on abdul jabar (?) as back then they loved airing bruce lee biography movies on public tv.
Oh please, I call bias. Rufus is a very cool character. Don't tell me a fat biker who's clearly not really a loser (Hot girlfriend, his target is Ken, top fighter of his country), who talks waaaaay too much and learned freaking Kung Fu by just watching movies is not a badass character. He doesn't even have many moves that depend of his belly unlike many other fat characters.
Basara Kusanagi said, November 25, 2013, 10:52:35 pmThat's why I said "japanese karateka" instead "all japanese are karateka", as I said before:Basara Kusanagi said, November 25, 2013, 07:27:03 pmA same country could have various stereotypes, all of you should know thatI don't think you really understand what a stereotype is. Calling things like "punk" a stereotype for Britain is wrong. A stereotype for Britain would be somebody with bad teeth. Likewise it is not a stereotype to make Ryu do karate when he is Japanese. It would be a stereotype to make him pronounce words like "ronery" and make huim like idk, really good at math and nerdy.Stereotypes are usually things with negative connotations based on large groups of people.
-Red- said, November 26, 2013, 12:57:31 amOh please, I call bias. Rufus is a very cool character. Don't tell me a fat biker who's clearly not really a loser (Hot girlfriend, his target is Ken, top fighter of his country), who talks waaaaay too much and learned freaking Kung Fu by just watching movies is not a badass character. He doesn't even have many moves that depend of his belly unlike many other fat characters.thats because unlike other characters being fat isnt really a part of his character (jiggling fucking belly and being fat aside)hes a fat biker whos clearly not really a loser with a hot girlfriend and a target in ken, the top fighter in the country who talks way too much and learned freaking kung fu by just watching movies, who just happens to be fatfor no reason other than to have a legit fat character to be fat
Umezono said, November 26, 2013, 01:03:54 amBasara Kusanagi said, November 25, 2013, 10:52:35 pmThat's why I said "japanese karateka" instead "all japanese are karateka", as I said before:Basara Kusanagi said, November 25, 2013, 07:27:03 pmA same country could have various stereotypes, all of you should know thatI don't think you really understand what a stereotype is. Calling things like "punk" a stereotype for Britain is wrong. A stereotype for Britain would be somebody with bad teeth. Likewise it is not a stereotype to make Ryu do karate when he is Japanese. It would be a stereotype to make him pronounce words like "ronery" and make huim like idk, really good at math and nerdy.Stereotypes are usually things with negative connotations based on large groups of people.Not all stereotypes are negative, like the usual "asian people are smarter" one or "this guy is black so he probably knows how to play basketball very well".
-Red- said, November 26, 2013, 01:06:39 amUmezono said, November 26, 2013, 01:03:54 amBasara Kusanagi said, November 25, 2013, 10:52:35 pmThat's why I said "japanese karateka" instead "all japanese are karateka", as I said before:Basara Kusanagi said, November 25, 2013, 07:27:03 pmA same country could have various stereotypes, all of you should know thatI don't think you really understand what a stereotype is. Calling things like "punk" a stereotype for Britain is wrong. A stereotype for Britain would be somebody with bad teeth. Likewise it is not a stereotype to make Ryu do karate when he is Japanese. It would be a stereotype to make him pronounce words like "ronery" and make huim like idk, really good at math and nerdy.Stereotypes are usually things with negative connotations based on large groups of people.Not all stereotypes are negative, like the usual "asian people are smarter" one or "this guy is black so he probably knows how to play basketball very well".A stereotype that gives someone a "positive" quality is still reducing them. It implies the only reason you have those skills is because you are part of that group.I still think rufus is a bad stereotype, having a hot girlfriend and being a fighter are kinda window dressing, they could have kept the exact same moveset and "hot girlfriend" without a comical big bouncing belly and made him King Kobra like he was originally going to be and he would have been a more rounded up character.They made him fat because they thought it was funny and then made all his costumes work around the exposed giant belly.
And still nobody mentioned the USA Sports Team, with Lucky Glauber (black people are so good at dribbling basketballs that they developed a martial art using it), Heavy D (Okay he's not too bad, but he's PATRIOTIC AS FUCK judging by his tattoo on his back), and Briaaaaaaaaaan Battler (Big stupid white football player who likes tackling people for no reason)Doesn't sound too bad until you realize that every time a new team enters KOF, they do it by beating up the USA Sports Team and stealing their invitations. So not only are they caricatures, but they also suck at fighting too. But I guess that's to be expected if you fight by throwing basketballs.
Iced said, November 26, 2013, 01:38:07 amA stereotype that gives someone a "positive" quality is still reducing them. It implies the only reason you have those skills is because you are part of that group.Stereotypes about groups of people are bad, even though they're related to good skills so yeah.Iced said, November 26, 2013, 01:38:07 amI still think rufus is a bad stereotype, having a hot girlfriend and being a fighter are kinda window dressing, they could have kept the exact same moveset and "hot girlfriend" without a comical big bouncing belly and made him King Kobra like he was originally going to be and he would have been a more rounded up character.What you just said here can be applied to every fictitious character ever. Every character ever made is literally a stereotype-based character with other stuff thrown in together to make the stereotype less apparent. Silver Surfer is the typical California surfer guy stereotype, they just painted him silver and made him surfer through galaxies looking for planets to give to his master Galactus instead of surfing on beaches.How Rufus was going to be like is irrelevant, we don't even know what other stereotypes his original design followed so we can't say it was better.Iced said, November 26, 2013, 01:38:07 amThey made him fat because they thought it was funny and then made all his costumes work around the exposed giant belly.Every part of the character is important, Rufus is not funny just because he's fat, he's funny because of his personality, the way he talks, his weird Kung Fu style, his overdramatic moves with overdramatic names, his silly long stories, his lack of situation awareness. Rufus with Seth's personality would not look funny at all. Oh, and the chinese zombie costume doesn't expose Rufus' belly at all.You add a fat charismatic character, you get people who'll complain about that, you instead decide to keep him slim, you'll get people who will complain about the game having no fat characters.
Basara Kusanagi said, November 25, 2013, 07:27:03 pmCapt. Segway said, November 25, 2013, 07:15:22 pmUh, other than being black, Dudley is a British stereotype.The British ARE stereotyped like that.Except Birdie, which is another british stereotype: punks. A same country could have various stereotypes, all of you should know thatI believe the the Chavs would like a word with you.Except that Birdie's black, but you get the idea.
