Tiers are meaningless and we are "inbreds" for giving them value. (Read 798 times)

Started by Hadoabuser, September 01, 2011, 09:08:42 am
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Tiers are meaningless and we are "inbreds" for giving them value.
#1  September 01, 2011, 09:08:42 am
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OK, tl;dr time -- tiers and balance calculations are fun, and they're better than nothing when it comes to providing us with some frame of reference in terms of what various fighting game characters are worth. The downside is, when taken as gospel, tiers and balance calculations can hold back the growth of certain fighting games, 3rd Strike being one of them. If more gamers, professional or otherwise, made fewer decisions based on what they think they know about a fighting game's preexisting tiers, and more from what they they want to to learn about the game by experiencing it for themselves, the world of fighting games would be a better place.

I hope that happens now that 3rd Strike is online. With new blood comes the potential for new ideas and techniques, gameplay concepts unhindered by static patterns of the past. Of course, that may not happen. 3rd Strike going online may go on to prove what we've always known (and what these videos prove), that Hugo is "top tier" and that it's impossible to win with Chun-Li.

Either way, I can't wait to see how the fight for 3rd Strike's future, as well as the future of all fighting games, will unfold. Just rememeber that it's you, the players, not charts and stats, that will go on to determine how that future unfolds.

This was a topic of discussion for a group I'm in, for some reason not everybody agreed that tiers don't impact one specific person's gaming experience. Instead just to show the characters that are favored to win in match ups based on the their toolsets and no relation to player ability. Hey we "inbreds" don't care about having fun its all about proving which character is the best and why you should bow down to that logic and never pick low tier characters because they suck.
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Re: Tiers are meaningless and we are "inbreds" for giving them value.
#2  September 01, 2011, 09:13:03 am
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He's not calling people inbreds if people didn't catch on.
He's calling the community inbred on the aspect of tier listings being what should define your choices if you play in the competitive scene.

Then you look at Melty Blood where there is no one who's not viable except for F-Roa. Fuck F-Roa he is shit.
Re: Tiers are meaningless and we are "inbreds" for giving them value.
#3  September 01, 2011, 09:16:43 am
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Tiers are a measure of a characters worth when played by 2 people of completely even skill who understand both characters utterly.

Tiers will not help you win vs someone better than you
tiers will not help you win if you don't know the match up.

Now, in terms of holding back, this means that despite the fact someone is god with hugo vs everyone, but he never ever plays against Q, he can lose. Because he has no clue how Q plays, so for a little while (unless he's good at adapting fast) he's going to be caught by every move Q has.

In M.U.G.E.N there is no magic button

They say a little knowledge is a dangerous thing, but it's not one half so bad as a lot of ignorance.
Re: Tiers are meaningless and we are "inbreds" for giving them value.
#4  September 01, 2011, 09:27:18 am
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I don't know that tier lists are the lone deciding factor in what becomes the choice for players in tournaments. You have to take a lot of other things into account when it comes to top characters. It's more of a way of saying "hey this character works because they have this strategic advantage over this character consistently". They are always, always subject to change as well. What we know now about current fighters is going to be expanded upon and everything is open the re-evaluation, regardless of how old the game actually is. It's a toss up even in the tourney scene, where you have a group who will play for fun, using whoever, and the group that plays to win, using characters that have almost extreme advantages over the rest of the cast. But it still all boils down to raw skill.


Re: Tiers are meaningless and we are "inbreds" for giving them value.
#5  September 01, 2011, 09:31:42 am
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Anyone who knows how tiers are decided upon could tell you they don't mean shit when it comes to overall potential.  If anything, they're only a tool for measuring trends, nothing else.
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Re: Tiers are meaningless and we are "inbreds" for giving them value.
#6  September 01, 2011, 10:18:49 am
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Defining tiers is as simple as this.

Suppose you are in a real life fight.  You have a baseball bat and the other guy has his bare hands.  Of course, you have the advantage.  But suppose you're drunk and can't swing right, or the other guy is a pro boxer.  You may still have the advantage, but the other guy's skill or your lack thereof is gonna tilt the balance some more.

I blame Smash Bros community for mainstream thinking all fighting gamers are nothing but a bunch of sheep who flock to whoever the big boys say is top tier.