YesNoOk
avatar

Project EF-12 (a free customizable 3D fighting game engine) (Read 255908 times)

Started by Makunouchi Ippo, September 25, 2013, 02:43:21 am
Share this topic:
Re: Project EF-12 (a free customizable 3D fighting game engine)
#101  September 30, 2013, 07:07:43 am
  • avatar
  • ******
  • Complicated.cns
    • Argentina
Honestly, 3D ripped characters for mugen are freaking awful and it would be a waste of time to greenscreen the models and animations unless you actually plan to draw over them or use them as a base for real pixel art sprites. And well, all this talk about CLSN boxes and whatnot is actually pretty relevant to the thread. It's pretty much THE most important aspect in a fighting game. It's the absolute base of a game's system after all.
Re: Project EF-12 (a free customizable 3D fighting game engine)
#102  September 30, 2013, 10:59:21 am
  • *****
  • Shame on you!
    • USA
Thanks for the underhanded insult.
I dont think how a game determines how things are colliding is half as important as what happens AFTER it finds out.
If you only have one hit reaction, no jumping, no movements, no helpers, no projectiles, no explodes, no effects, you've got a dumbed down version of rock-em-sock-em robots.
Sure collision boxes are a big factor in fighting games, and in any game for that matter, but it's the TYPES of reactions that matter the most.
I would argue axis points of the hit reactions are just as important to the base system. Without them you just have maybe 9 hit reaction styles.

I dont see how defining an area with a box, or a pyramid, or a sphere, or a tesseract changes anything. If the geometry is covered, it's covered.
vVv Wheat Stage Released vVv
Re: Project EF-12 (a free customizable 3D fighting game engine)
#103  September 30, 2013, 02:00:18 pm
  • ******
I don't see the insult about what was said.  :???:

If anything, I should feel insulted knowing that my attempt to pre-render models will never look as good as pixel art.  :(
He is right though, no amount of 3D can look better than quality sprite work on a 2D engine partially because shading can't be ideally manipulated in the former unless pixel art is done afterwards... Best that could be done is to use a render that uses basic color shading and get a basic sprite shade, pixeling the rest.

And how the collision is detected is the very thing that separates 2D from 3D fighters (other than the additional axis). Everyone here (yourself included) has very good reason to discuss such a thing. Reactions matter little if you can't get the kind of CLSNs you want.
Last Edit: September 30, 2013, 02:12:26 pm by Niitris
Re: Project EF-12 (a free customizable 3D fighting game engine)
#104  September 30, 2013, 04:01:55 pm
  • ******
  • [E]
    • Mexico
I dont think there were very many AMAZING characters when Mugen first came out were there?
All of this talk of "wait and see" is backwards. If you wait around, no one's going to do anything and it'll die off.

What we should be talking about is the possibility of making a green screen map and ripping every 3D character for use in mugen.

What we should be talking about is if anyone's good at rigging, if anyone's good at animating (cuz I know I suck at it)

We should be talking about how to get Samsh Bros Brawl characters converted over. How to get SFxT Yoshimitsu in the game, because C'Mon, once's Yoshi's in the game it's an actual 3D fighter.

I worked on "Shizno's Fighter" homebrew for the original Xbox. He stopped working on it, but I made a general mesh. I made, spiderman, skullomania, fei-long, and COUNTLESS other characters just changing the skin on it and morphing the general aspect of the body. Literally just 30 to 40 seconds to change the body to an all new person. I guarantee the same thing is possible with this engine.

I'd like to see talk of a png to dds team so we could get a force of characters represented.

All this talk of collision box styles and if animating 3D is harder than spriting doesnt freaking matter. It's all ART it's all going to take HOURS to do. "PotS" Isnt going to make EF-12 characters in the first day. It doesnt mean this isnt something we've ALL thought about.

I hope this doesnt go the way of the shizno fighter. I'd love to see it succeed.

all that is nice and all but we are waiting for english docs, not for whatever else you implyed we are waiting for.
Re: Project EF-12 (a free customizable 3D fighting game engine)
#105  September 30, 2013, 04:49:55 pm
  • ******
  • Portrait Prodigy EX+
    • mugenguild.com/forum/topics/saikoros-high-resolution-mugen-portraits-fatal-fury-full-set-145724.0.html

We should be talking about how to get Samsh Bros Brawl characters converted over. How to get SFxT Yoshimitsu in the game, because C'Mon, once's Yoshi's in the game it's an actual 3D fighter.


THIS. And only THIS. ;D
All of your Mugen Portrait needs may be found HERE.

I'd like to report two robots on the MFG forums: One is EXShadow. The other is Saikoro.
There should be a Saikoro plugin for Photoshop.
Re: Project EF-12 (a free customizable 3D fighting game engine)
#106  September 30, 2013, 07:25:48 pm
  • avatar
  • ******
  • Complicated.cns
    • Argentina
Thanks for the underhanded insult.
I dont think how a game determines how things are colliding is half as important as what happens AFTER it finds out.
If you only have one hit reaction, no jumping, no movements, no helpers, no projectiles, no explodes, no effects, you've got a dumbed down version of rock-em-sock-em robots.
Sure collision boxes are a big factor in fighting games, and in any game for that matter, but it's the TYPES of reactions that matter the most.
I would argue axis points of the hit reactions are just as important to the base system. Without them you just have maybe 9 hit reaction styles.

I dont see how defining an area with a box, or a pyramid, or a sphere, or a tesseract changes anything. If the geometry is covered, it's covered.

I don't know what you're talking about, I don't even know you, why would I insult you? But if you want to, I can give it a try since you have no idea how 3D games work like and why you just can't use squares to cover the collision geometry. This is all gameplay VS graphics again, which is always a dumb thing to discuss about since both are quite important to any game.
Re: Project EF-12 (a free customizable 3D fighting game engine)
#107  September 30, 2013, 07:42:28 pm
  • ******
Another impression from NeoGaf:

Quote
1) Unless you know how to use Softimage, you're probably going to have to use Maya, and then learn enough Softimage Mod Tool to export IK skeletons.
2) The convertors are buggy, but they do work eventually.

I'm using Blender; I hope the engine allows content from there to be added seamlessly (even if it isn't, it's all the same concept so it's probably not a big deal). Bugs will be ironed out so that's not an issue unless they go all Elecbyte on us.
Re: Project EF-12 (a free customizable 3D fighting game engine)
#108  October 01, 2013, 07:31:38 am
  • *****
  • Shame on you!
    • USA
SFIV's collision system is pretty interesting. Not only it uses boxes like in mugen but it also supports rotating when required (So you can draw the collision box of a diagonal limb with just one slim box and then rotate it depending of the limb's current angle, instead of using two or three boxes like you would do in mugen).
.... since you have no idea how 3D games work like and why you just can't use squares to cover the collision geometry.....
^^^^ Your words, not mine ^^^^ I mean you say Capcom does it, but then 6 hours later it's impossible... or are boxes different from squares in 3D?????  :getout:
As I've said, I've actually WORKED ON A 3D FIGHTING GAME for xbox homebrew. But you didnt actually READ what I said. This is the original thread of Shizno's Fighter.. http://forums.xbox-scene.com/index.php?showtopic=399811&st=0 I'm still friends with Shizno and knepley. knepley is one of the top 10 guys at Epic. I think we knew what we were doing back then.
And then there's my Samus, in my signature, that's 3D ripped sprites. I personally dont think they look bad but whatever. Oh, you couldnt tell the first avatar in my signature was a 3D model??
You might think 3D models converted to 2D are crappy. That's just like, your opinion man.

But back to the thread at hand.

Is anyone willing to do textures? I dont have my general models, but I can cook something up.  We could have a "tights" guy and a "shorts" guy real easy. I made Balrog for Shizno's Fighter easy with the general body too. I just ballooned his hands out and a couple other edits.
The "shorts" guy would be a Sagat type look. With the boxing gloves he could be Steve Fox. The "tights" could be a Guy, Spiderman, and a million other characters.

vVv Wheat Stage Released vVv
Re: Project EF-12 (a free customizable 3D fighting game engine)
#109  October 01, 2013, 08:20:10 am
  • avatar
  • *****
It's going to be tough to learn this I already know haha. I just learned how to make characters in MUGEN like last year or so and I still haven't released any of them even though I've made 3, cuz of school. I know for a fact that I won't be able to make much of a contribution to this engine, but I wish everyone luck who plans to take on the task.
Re: Project EF-12 (a free customizable 3D fighting game engine)
#110  October 01, 2013, 09:21:11 am
  • ****
    • Germany
Let's say this Engine will work good and members with enough talent are able to make good chars, stages and maybe fullgames with it, is there are chance that we get a Forumsection for Project EF-12 here?
Re: Project EF-12 (a free customizable 3D fighting game engine)
#111  October 01, 2013, 05:26:37 pm
  • avatar
  • ******
  • Complicated.cns
    • Argentina
SFIV's collision system is pretty interesting. Not only it uses boxes like in mugen but it also supports rotating when required (So you can draw the collision box of a diagonal limb with just one slim box and then rotate it depending of the limb's current angle, instead of using two or three boxes like you would do in mugen).
.... since you have no idea how 3D games work like and why you just can't use squares to cover the collision geometry.....
^^^^ Your words, not mine ^^^^ I mean you say Capcom does it, but then 6 hours later it's impossible... or are boxes different from squares in 3D?????  :getout:
As I've said, I've actually WORKED ON A 3D FIGHTING GAME for xbox homebrew. But you didnt actually READ what I said. This is the original thread of Shizno's Fighter.. http://forums.xbox-scene.com/index.php?showtopic=399811&st=0 I'm still friends with Shizno and knepley. knepley is one of the top 10 guys at Epic. I think we knew what we were doing back then.
And then there's my Samus, in my signature, that's 3D ripped sprites. I personally dont think they look bad but whatever. Oh, you couldnt tell the first avatar in my signature was a 3D model??
You might think 3D models converted to 2D are crappy. That's just like, your opinion man.

Are you an idiot? SFIV works like a 2D game, you don't move in a x, y and z axis, only two of them, that's the entire point of the conversation, or at least it was until you brought up your art related crap.
Re: Project EF-12 (a free customizable 3D fighting game engine)
#112  October 01, 2013, 10:11:39 pm
  • ******
  • Portrait Prodigy EX+
    • mugenguild.com/forum/topics/saikoros-high-resolution-mugen-portraits-fatal-fury-full-set-145724.0.html
Let's say this Engine will work good and members with enough talent are able to make good chars, stages and maybe fullgames with it, is there are chance that we get a Forumsection for Project EF-12 here?

Interesting thought.

I could see that pop up as perhaps a secondary thread or a sticky. Or something similar. One thing for sure is if this program takes off like Mugen did, we're in for a treat. I am very curious to see how all of this develops.

And regardless of how all of this does develop, each engine will remain uniqie as 3D and 2D both have their own characteristics that make each of them unique in their own right. Personally,  as much as I love Tekken and Street Fighter IV, theres something truly awesome about classic 2D titles.
All of your Mugen Portrait needs may be found HERE.

I'd like to report two robots on the MFG forums: One is EXShadow. The other is Saikoro.
There should be a Saikoro plugin for Photoshop.
Re: Project EF-12 (a free customizable 3D fighting game engine)
#113  October 01, 2013, 10:56:34 pm
  • *****
  • Hug Pikachus!
    • USA
I just watched the videos.

Hmm... it seems that the engine would focus on Tekken/Soul Calibur way of fighting games rather than traditional 2D style.

Interesting, but I am no good at 3D modeling in terms of actual human models instead of machinery.

But if they include support from other modeling software like Daz Studio, then I think I can try my luck.
Hug the Pikachus!

Hug A Pikachu Today!
Re: Project EF-12 (a free customizable 3D fighting game engine)
#114  October 02, 2013, 12:56:33 am
  • *****
  • Shame on you!
    • USA
I'd love to see it more along the lines of Rival Schools than Soul Calibur. The whole ring out's never been my favorite.
I'd like to see quick sidesteps and moves that use the Z axis in special moves. I've always thought about making Hyo in 2D. Weapons wouldnt be a bad thing as long as it's tasteful. Would be very easy to spam imo.

DNZRX768, I doubt they're going to have tools for anything other that what they've posted. But you can always convert file types. Back when I was making meshes for UIX/tHc I'd have to use 2 converting tools. Shizno's fighter would use 3DS but I used Lightwave. There's always a way to convert your file types. If you're good at mechanical stuff you'd probably be really good at stage creation. I made a couple MK stages for Fighter that looked pretty decent.

-Red- are you serious? Like I said to begin with, the collision boxes/spheres dont really matter.  Hell, the best system would be to activate bones, and what ever pollys it controls, for the collision detection. But I guess me bringing up rigging, meshes, animation, and texturing shows a complete lack of understand of how 3D games are made. Up until I jumped in the thread it was a couple arguments about 3D is harder than 2D, and collision detection. The only thing collision detection systems really factor into is processing power, not game play. The game play is the most important factor of a 3D fighting game. It's why Virtua Fighter, Tekken, Soul Calibur, Samuria Showdown, DoA, and the rest of them are unique. Or do you honestly think that those games all use independent hit detection systems? and that, and only that, factors into game play? and also controls what's possible through out the game? Like if Soul Calibur used Tekken's collision system, ring out wouldnt be possible??? Because this is what you're saying. I'm saying once the hits are made, THEN comes the entirety of the game and what's possible.
Kinda like how Mugen has 4 types of collision boxes and a whole long list of "Type = ". That's what makes up the game play. The clsn boxes activate the hitdef, they dont control it.

and maximilianjenus, I never implied anyone was waiting on anything. I said stuff I thought we should be discussing.
Stuff like,
In the video they show something of an extended punch. Like the person's arm becomes disjoint and gets larger. I like this possibility. Like those SFEX punches, Dhalsim's regular moves, and a plethora of other possibilities come out of this. If the arm can morph, you'd be able to morph the whole body. You could possibly make teleport moves if there isnt another system.

One thing I like, it seems to be using a lot nicer meshes than SFEX/Rival Schools level of polly count. Hopefully a character's mesh can be in the tens of thousands.
vVv Wheat Stage Released vVv
Re: Project EF-12 (a free customizable 3D fighting game engine)
#115  October 02, 2013, 03:03:50 am
  • ******
  • [E]
    • Mexico
you did not imply it, you outright said it.

also saying that collision boxes don't matter to gameplay, well, you are just ridiculing yourself along with saying mugen has 4 types of colision boxes , only someone with a very shallow understanding of mugen/gameplay  would say that.
Re: Project EF-12 (a free customizable 3D fighting game engine)
#116  October 02, 2013, 03:08:18 am
  • avatar
  • ******
  • Complicated.cns
    • Argentina
Are you really saying that CLSN boxes are not an integral part of the system in a fighting game? See? THIS is the reason why you and your "top 10 guys at epic" friends were never able to complete a commercial fighting game with all of your "knowledge" and probably never will (Or you may end up doing it anyway and end up with a really awful game).
Re: Project EF-12 (a free customizable 3D fighting game engine)
#117  October 02, 2013, 04:01:20 am
  • ******
  • Complex
    • Panama
    • Skype - lopezantispam@hotmail.com
Awful CLSN work means an awful fighting game. Period.
Re: Project EF-12 (a free customizable 3D fighting game engine)
#118  October 02, 2013, 04:08:39 am
  • ******
I'm saying once the hits are made, THEN comes the entirety of the game and what's possible.

Exactly!
What do you think they're trying to say?  :wall:
You can't have gameplay without a proper way to detect contact...

Go play Skullgirls and look at the CLSNs and how they're implemented...
Then go play a more typical 2D fighter.

If you think the way collision is handled has no effect on Skullgirls gameplay, then you probably don't know as much as you think.

Up until I jumped in the thread it was a couple arguments about 3D is harder than 2D, and collision detection.

And this is nonsense how?

Some people are discouraged from spriting and would rather use computer graphics. The pros and cons of 3D vs. 2D were being discussed. I didn't agree with the guy, but I think it was productive dialogue. If you want to encourage people to make content for this engine, it's not as simple as "let's find out how to make great characters." :D

Finally, are you going to make all of the great characters when your animation skill sucks? Maybe you should talk about animation and discussing techniques to improve instead of trying to win petty arguments.
Re: Project EF-12 (a free customizable 3D fighting game engine)
#119  October 02, 2013, 04:21:01 am
  • ******
  • Fuck You.
im liking the sound of this, seems dope


at least my 3d modelling and ik experience gets put to good use
i cant count the reasons i should stay

one by one they all just fade away...


http://nero-blanco.deviantart.com/
Re: Project EF-12 (a free customizable 3D fighting game engine)
#120  October 02, 2013, 09:44:23 pm
  • avatar
  • *****
I know it sounds like a silly question but since it's a new engine I have to ask.

Does anyone know if this will have any sort of online functionality? Atleast maybe for full games? Just asking.