question, will this shugendo be able to use the latest mp3 plugins (like winamps) ?, also could it be possible to use 2 filters at a time like scale2x and the bilinear filter ( like in mame32)?Keep up the good work
devildr1ver said, January 07, 2007, 09:58:33 pmquestion, will this shugendo be able to use the latest mp3 plugins (like winamps) ?, also could it be possible to use 2 filters at a time like scale2x and the bilinear filter ( like in mame32)?Keep up the good work Thanx man.No need for an winamp plaugin in ShugenDo is able to play mp3 and much more filesand here the answer to you filter question SakirSoft said, January 06, 2007, 01:29:19 pmMegabyt2k2 said, January 06, 2007, 06:09:51 amHmmm...so according to the pics posted so far, there is no graphic mode equal to doubleres=2? that kinda sucks...i can't stand it when the most visually appealing thing in my game is the lifebars though there are some very NICE doubleres=4 chars out there (mostly of the GG persuasion(sp?)), it would be nice to see a mode that looks as smooth as Mugen's doubleres=2 graphical mode...this is, of course, just the opinion of one individual/user ......and before someone mentions that there is a mixed mode in works for a future release of ShugenDo, I've seen the pics of this mode, and they look like painted chars with no outlines...it just looks weird to me...it would be MUCH better with a dr=2 instead...again this is just MY opinion...Okey i see you want bilinear filtering.Now i added this filterhere are the current filters,l choose which one you like Normal( doublerez = 4 )bilinear( doublerez = 2)and Scale2xAll support high rez chars at the same time
SakirSoft said, January 07, 2007, 07:57:06 pmI will try to adde also an scanline filter But what about that scale2x don't you like it ?The scale2x is ok, it's just that it takes some of the definition lines out of most characters (like KFM in the shot you posted) and it looks kinda weird...sorry for being so picky and kinda asking you to cater to me...I don't mean any harm really ...but now that it's been mentioned, maybe options to mix modes would (if possible) be the best way...like it was said, in Mame, I usually use bilinear and scanline together (about 25% usually...anything more than that is a little hard to withstand ) so if you could maybe put something like that in the options menu, that would cater to everyone...I think...as for feedback, I've been waiting to see what EXACTLY is available in the current build...when I saw that the mode that looked most pleasing to me wasn't available yet, I kinda decided to wait for the public release with all the resolution options open...I know you showed me the bilinear filter mode, but is it implemented in the current release, or was that just to show that you have work on it and it will be ready for a future release?
The scale2x mode will be aviable on the next release wich also will come with alot of fixes.Also i will try to add the biliniear scanline filter.
SakirSoft said, January 08, 2007, 09:48:42 pmThe scale2x mode will be aviable on the next release wich also will come with alot of fixes.Also i will try to add the biliniear scanline filter.So the bilinear filter isn't yet available in the current release?
I think that both shugendo and infnity cat rock and have very good features. I also think that none of them changed the way mugen works, the character coding is the same. Everyone just adds more triggers/scrtls and thats it. Why don't you change the very core of mugen?I think that states are ok but it should be somehow easier to create an attack, or make a combo wich by the way no one ever made a combo system, relying on the chars is not a healthy option. To much power is given to the character coding, there's no in-game tuning, if you want to balance a game with 40 chars you have to run trough the code of each making little fixes.States should only be used for very complex actions and not for everyday stuff. Instead of a generic state, create sub classes of it which will surely interact better. You have to make states with sound, and changeanim and wierd stuff, the whole code is sloppy. As I said, a generic state should be used only if what you are trying to do is absolutely complex and there is no already a given way to do it. Make an attack and call it attack, not state, why does everything has to be a state anyway? It's like using "goto" instead of a function or method invoke.There is no easy attack/key mapping, why do I have to make some file where I declare each possible key pressing combination and then a state where they are checked and omg!! Why can't you make it just like a move list that you see in every fight game and the engine do the rest?"Use a chareditor dude!!!"Ok, using a char editor that simplifies your life is not an option, that would be like hiding the dust beneath a carpet or using a mask if you are ugly. Relying on a 3rd party to do what the game designer should have implemented is wrong.Many other core changes should be implemented, and what we have here is yet another clone of Mugen that's just fancy and not something new. Maybe you think I'm a loser and the only thing I do is critcise (which I enjoy a lot btw) but I'm already doing what I'm saying, a few months ago I opened a thread called "Mugen++: why not?" before knowing that it was being done already. I'm coding my mugen++ all alone and it's hard, I did not even had the explanation of how sff worked, I figured it out entirely on my own with a hex editor, it was like reading the Matrix (lol).I hope all of you understand what I'm saying and start to attack the very foundations mugen is built of and only if they survive, build on top of them, else make some new foundations. If anything I said here is not true or acurrate enough please correct me and make me understand better how mugen, shugendo and infnity cat work.
QuoteI think that states are ok but it should be somehow easier to create an attack, or make a combo wich by the way no one ever made a combo system, relying on the chars is not a healthy option. To much power is given to the character coding, there's no in-game tuning, if you want to balance a game with 40 chars you have to run trough the code of each making little fixes.The engines are made to give complete liberty to the creators who actually made characters, not to the hobbists who collect them and want to make a "OMG KOF CHARACTOR MUGEN".QuoteStates should only be used for very complex actions and not for everyday stuff. Instead of a generic state, create sub classes of it which will surely interact better. You have to make states with sound, and changeanim and wierd stuff, the whole code is sloppy. As I said, a generic state should be used only if what you are trying to do is absolutely complex and there is no already a given way to do it. Make an attack and call it attack, not state, why does everything has to be a state anyway? It's like using "goto" instead of a function or method invoke.Again, you have the liberty to do what you want in mugen; "precoding" some things will cut liberty to the creators. And... How will a finite state machine function without states?Quote"Use a chareditor dude!!!"Ok, using a char editor that simplifies your life is not an option, that would be like hiding the dust beneath a carpet or using a mask if you are ugly. Relying on a 3rd party to do what the game designer should have implemented is wrong.AND RELYING IN THE ENGINE TO DO WHAT YOU DON'T KNOW HOW TO CODE ES EITHER WRONG.QuoteMany other core changes should be implemented, and what we have here is yet another clone of Mugen that's just fancy and not something new. Maybe you think I'm a loser and the only thing I do is critcise (which I enjoy a lot btw) but I'm already doing what I'm saying, a few months ago I opened a thread called "Mugen++: why not?" before knowing that it was being done already. I'm coding my mugen++ all alone and it's hard, I did not even had the explanation of how sff worked, I figured it out entirely on my own with a hex editor, it was like reading the Matrix (lol)....The format description is detailed at Winane's site (with ammends).In the end, what you want is something like KOF91 or fighter maker. The already exist, so go and download them.
Attack categorization could help balance things out, but then you have to allow "engine-level" programming. As states, "attacks" as you are wanting to call them, are categorized, the engine can delegate what combo options are possible. This would require existing character and engine programming to change. Many things can stay the same coding-wise within Mugen, but existing characters won't be able to be converted through some magic program.
I understand that is a bit hard to code an char but this state modelis very common in most games like Doom3 and any other modern game.But mugen gives you a great flexiblity.See what all those chars can do.It seem like nothing is impossible.Okey i understand that some things should be added to make it a bit more comfortable to code a char.But the basic idee behind it is good.
Quote I think that states are ok but it should be somehow easier to create an attack, or make a combo wich by the way no one ever made a combo system, relying on the chars is not a healthy option. To much power is given to the character coding, there's no in-game tuning, if you want to balance a game with 40 chars you have to run trough the code of each making little fixes.The engines are made to give complete liberty to the creators who actually made characters, not to the hobbists who collect them and want to make a "OMG KOF CHARACTOR MUGEN".Reply:Ok, let's supose for a second I'm not a hobbit and I made my very own 40 characters. I want to tune them since the first character I made a year ago wasn't conceived with my newest super-powerful character in mind. That so called liberty is annoying.What if I want to add "grooves" and I want all my old chars to be able to use different grooves? Different groove usage is only possible if character states could be modified at runtime. Maybe I want to make a custom groove at runtime, in which I can add my favourite "skills" and have a char which wasn't created with them in mind use them anyway. Pretty much like Capcom vs SNK 2. If it's possible to change what a character can do at runtime interesting behaviors could be achieved.When I said "To much power is given to the character coding.." I meant that there is a heavy load on character coding. Almost everything has to be harcoded in each character making it very cumbersome.Quote States should only be used for very complex actions and not for everyday stuff. Instead of a generic state, create sub classes of it which will surely interact better. You have to make states with sound, and changeanim and wierd stuff, the whole code is sloppy. As I said, a generic state should be used only if what you are trying to do is absolutely complex and there is no already a given way to do it. Make an attack and call it attack, not state, why does everything has to be a state anyway? It's like using "goto" instead of a function or method invoke.Again, you have the liberty to do what you want in mugen; "precoding" some things will cut liberty to the creators. And... How will a finite state machine function without states?Reply:Liberty is over rated. Imagine you are floating in an infinit whitespace. You can float arround and since you want liberty there is nothing but you in this universe. Then imagine we add a bottom and gravity to your world, I've taken out a degree of libery from you but now you can do thing you couldn't like running or jumping. Now we add things and your liberty ends where theirs begin, I have taken out many more degrees of liberty. Now you actually do stuff since you are not alone anymore and start interacting with things. I could continue but it's not worth it.Let's think about some childish toys. Clay. Totally amorphous which gives you absolute freedom to do what you want. A Lego set. Rigid bricks which can't change in any possible way since they are "final". But wait, you can put together a lot of rigid preconceived bricks and make things that weren't possible with raw materials. I'm not much of an artist so I can't making nothing out of clay, but I can make some cool stuff with Lego, just like most people who create their own chars are not professional programmers, they are just gamers who want to have fun.Sometimes freedom becomes inactivity or an impediment and a few rules and restrictions become fundamental tools to build something.You can't say at this point that anything I plan to do will restrict anything that's possible at the current time with Mugen. You don't know how the bricks will be."How will a finite state machine function without states?" :What I'm saying is that you don't need a completely amorphous state to do simple tasks, use specialized ones. This is attemped by the use of stctrls but the whole State whith substates build is not comfortable enough. I don't know, maybe we don't need to use finite state machines at all. If you check the code of any char you will find an excessive usage of the "if" which is intrinsic to state machines linear programming. Why don't we use Events! "When" and not "if" which is the next step I modern languages. I know that events hold "if's" internally but the whole point of the events is to hide them. Think about Object Oriented Programming which is ideal to the Mugen universe since it's made of user-defined elements that have to fit together.Quote "Use a chareditor dude!!!"Ok, using a char editor that simplifies your life is not an option, that would be like hiding the dust beneath a carpet or using a mask if you are ugly. Relying on a 3rd party to do what the game designer should have implemented is wrong.AND RELYING IN THE ENGINE TO DO WHAT YOU DON'T KNOW HOW TO CODE ES EITHER WRONG.Reply:It's not about not knowing, it's about not wanting. Why should I harcode everything when most characters are pretty much the same? It's easier to find what's common in every char and add some sort of templates. Then add some wiggle-room for excpetional states where there is no way to do it without absolute freedom. Quote Many other core changes should be implemented, and what we have here is yet another clone of Mugen that's just fancy and not something new. Maybe you think I'm a loser and the only thing I do is critcise (which I enjoy a lot btw) but I'm already doing what I'm saying, a few months ago I opened a thread called "Mugen++: why not?" before knowing that it was being done already. I'm coding my mugen++ all alone and it's hard, I did not even had the explanation of how sff worked, I figured it out entirely on my own with a hex editor, it was like reading the Matrix (lol)....The format description is detailed at Winane's site (with ammends).I alreadty knew that, but I didn't back then when I began to work on Mugen++.In the end, what you want is something like KOF91 or fighter maker. The already exist, so go and download them.??Until now your only arguments where: liberty, liberty again, your lack of imagination on how to make a fighting game not with finite state machines, the assumption that I don't know how to do stuff and some weird thing about KOF91 and fighter maker.Non of them ‘real’ arguments.You didn't argue against:-Mugen annoying script-Lack of innovation in the new Mugens-Lack of char modifing outside it’s code-Lack of easy attack/key mapping-No easy way to tune groups of chars-Excessive amount of knowledge needed to make a char-Excessive amount of time needed to make a char-Excessive coding needed to make chars-Abuse of States (combos are defined through states instead of rules, sorry but ‘juggle’ var doesn’t cut it)Also you didn’t bother to question anything you already knew, you just assumed a defensive position.In reply to the other people who posted:“Many things can stay the same coding-wise within Mugen, but existing characters won't be able to be converted through some magic program.â€
Programming for mugen is as easy as it gets. If you're a complete noob and don't know jack, then I suggest you jump on the noob wagon, or you can decide start reading up and experimenting with code. If Sakir makes the engine so basic and noob friendly, then it takes away the flexibility.And the idea that elecbyte had when they created mugen was infact "infinite possibilities". so you're clearly missing the point.And if you're creating this "mugen++" then why don't you do what you are asking, on your own engine?
Can't read the response to my post without any format... anyways, I didn't want to assume a defensive position.I won't continue arguing since It will screw this thread, dedicated to what ShugenDo should be, not to what It isn't.
This has probably already been answered, but is ShugenDo compatible with original MUGEN files, (DEFs and such)?
MekkMUGEN Technologies said, January 21, 2007, 03:56:20 amThis has probably already been answered, but is ShugenDo compatible with original MUGEN files, (DEFs and such)?Yeahh it is but for menus,,stages and settings i use xml files for defintion.But chars are working as usualyou can take a look of this document to get a picture of ithttp://mugenguild.com/forumx/index.php?topic=48552.newOhh it came to my attention that nobody replaye to my screen pack threadhttp://mugenguild.com/forumx/index.php?topic=48905.0
