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SHADEs of Manhattan 3: City of Chaos - Opinions wanted (Read 29792 times)

Started by Sean Altly, November 21, 2013, 07:57:54 am
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Poll

Which type of fighting style/background would you like to see my new character "Elle" have? Note: This is gauge opinion and may not guarantee the final gameplay of the character.

MI6 (A) - Mix of defensive martial arts and James Bond-style gadgets/weapons
19 (35.2%)
MI6 (B) - No weapons, more elegant and complex martial arts movements (i.e. Lili, Karin, Hotaru)
24 (44.4%)
Bounty Hunter - street fighting-style attacks with non-lethal weaponry such as tasers and bean-bag guns
11 (20.4%)

Total Members Voted: 54

Voting closed: January 14, 2014, 09:46:59 pm

SHADEs of Manhattan 3: City of Chaos - Opinions wanted
#1  November 21, 2013, 07:57:54 am
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So there may or may not be some big things in the works for SHADEs of Manhattan 3, can't go into too much detail right now, but regardless of that, I want to start discussing it. The main thing I want to discuss is reducing the bloated movesets of each character.

In SHADEs 2, each character's moveset got huge, especially as far as super moves go, and I'd like to get everyone's opinions on which characters had useless moves or moves that could be cut in order to streamline the character. For example, I cut Thirteen's moveset to 4 specials, Serial Killer (his Rekka chain), Bed of Roses (the anti-air with the back spikes), Relentless (the rush-down special that hits low), and Slaughterhouse (the rapid elbow-spikes attack, which will now be done with a Lightning Kick-type command), along with 3 supers, Blood Frenzy (the super version of Serial Killer), Slaughterhouse Five (the super version of Slaughterhouse that starts with the low-hitting sweep), and Friday the 13th (his DM).

I've already decided that SHADEs 3 will be a 4-button game, and everyone will have a L1, L3, and DM super, unlike the 5-7 supers everyone had in SHADEs 2. I'm doing this to balance the game and reduce development time (especially for those characters that need new/updated sprites, such as Moses Maddigan, Snow, and Vesper).

Everyone will have a run instead of a forward hop, and there will be a universal "Defense" button, that will be used for dodge rolls and recoveries. Easy Overheads will be retained from SHADEs 2, and there will be a universal command for DMs. We (the team involved) were also considering an alternate option for DMs, where you can choose between a DM (a free, high risk/high reward super move, like in SHADEs 1 and 2) or a mode where all your specials become EX specials for free (I was thinking of calling each mode "Desperation" and "Determination", respectively). It would be something you choose at the beginning of a match.

For right now, a minimum of 3 new characters are planned, Castle and Elle (along with Dark Nation, who is already completed). If we add a fourth, it will be After Image. Chad In Black will not return (she was written out in her SHADEs 2 ending).

Byrne will become Obsydian, and the story will revolve around Kane Kelly and him attempting to destroy the city together, forcing Snow, Sabotage, Adamas and their crew to team up with Moses Maddigan and his allies to stop them.

Feel free to make suggestions here about cutting/improving the movesets of existing characters. This is still a ways off, which is why I didn't revive the SHADEs sub-forum yet. Looking forward to everyone's opinions!
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Re: SHADEs of Manhattan 3: City of Chaos - Opinions wanted
#2  November 21, 2013, 06:03:37 pm
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YEAH! A new Shades of Manhattan!

Ok Sean-san, that's my ideas:

- 4-button system
- 3 Supers (Desperation, Super(or Hyper) Desperation and Ult. Desperation)
- Guard Parry, Guard Counter
- 3-Levels Gauge Power
- Chains and Custom Combos
- Guard Gauge

Finally, I have a lot of ideas but these are the main ones.
Re: SHADEs of Manhattan 3: City of Chaos - Opinions wanted
#3  November 21, 2013, 07:11:08 pm
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Awesome new that Castle a for-sure character for SHADES 3. His design is really cool, and his sort of "Third World Militia Leader" concept is just really, really interesting. I look forward to seeing more on him!
Re: SHADEs of Manhattan 3: City of Chaos - Opinions wanted
#4  November 21, 2013, 07:14:03 pm
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I'm gonna go through the game one more time to really give you feedback. System-wise I really, REALLY, REALLY think this game could benefit from having no airblocking (or atleast limited airblocking) like SF titles because without it a lot of characters have moves that either don't make sense or are less effective. I also still suggest that if your going to have guard break, you should actually make it something that can actually be used, as it exists currently it's very difficult to get it to work. I think certain characters should have certain moves that affect the guard break gauge differently, if not then you probably shouldn't have it at all *shrug*.

Lastly, are you retaining the EX characters or incorporating those movesets into just one character? Will any of the new characters have EX versions? I know you're re-designing certain characters so I wanted to know.

EDIT: I just paid attention to the fact that the game will indeed have dodge rolls. You should further explain it's properties, because I have a idea for how it should work but maybe it clashes with how you want it. I could be over thinking things, perhaps, but I just want this to be amazing is all.
Last Edit: November 21, 2013, 07:22:51 pm by Cazaki
Re: SHADEs of Manhattan 3: City of Chaos - Opinions wanted
#5  November 21, 2013, 07:24:46 pm
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Desperation/Determination sounds nice. Not as complex as CvS grooves affecting entire play styles, not as simple as selecting an Ultra and basing your game around it, and a comeback mechanic that doesn't feel broken. Plus, a sweet naming choice.

With run replacing the dash/hop, what's the plan for the dash attacks I enjoy so much? Running attacks?
Re: SHADEs of Manhattan 3: City of Chaos - Opinions wanted
#6  November 21, 2013, 08:19:29 pm
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@gui0007

Most of that will be implemented.

@TheSnackist

Thanks, he's my favorite of the new designs, and a must for the game. He was going to be an edit of Mr. X, but I've decided I like him too much and instead he'll get totally unique sprites.

@Cazaki

Yes, I'll definitely be limiting the air blocking to the way it works in SFA/Z, specials and supers won't be blockable in the air. Air blocking will be reserved for blocking other air-borne attacks. Making it this way is one of the reasons dodge rolls will be implemented, and they'll work pretty much like they do in KoF, a few frames of hittable start-up and recovery, invincible during the actual roll to everything but throws.

I'm on the fence about the guard gauge, and instead thinking about giving everyone a guard crush-type move that uses power (like in SFEX). If I keep the gauge, I will make it so that different moves effect different amounts of damage to the guard gauge.

EX characters are a possibility but not a priority, but right now I'm looking to reduce everyone's movesets to their essentials and trim the fat, especially as far as super moves go. So, if you're going to go back to the game, I'd like to know which specials and supers you think are the least useful for each character, keeping in mind the new mechanics of the game (run, dodge roll, limited air-blocking), and which ones are the most essential (along with any other feedback you want to provide, of course).

@Judas

Thanks for the compliment on the naming. For runs, everyone will be able to do their normals during their run, along with their Easy OH (unless that's too cheap).
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Re: SHADEs of Manhattan 3: City of Chaos - Opinions wanted
#7  November 21, 2013, 08:27:32 pm
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glad to see your still feeling creative looking forward to this and your other projects
Re: SHADEs of Manhattan 3: City of Chaos - Opinions wanted
#8  November 21, 2013, 09:11:55 pm
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I'm already going over the characters, but as far as the system goes. Here's what I think.

Spoiler, click to toggle visibilty

This all my opinion though. After you see what I suggest for individual characters though maybe you'll see why I think this. I'm also not gonna go over EX characters. I almost don't think you need them anymore because there's enough playstyles to the point that they aren't needed. If anything, if you want to retain those moves, you should incorporate them into the main character or give new characters moves that function similarly.
Re: SHADEs of Manhattan 3: City of Chaos - Opinions wanted
#9  November 21, 2013, 09:13:57 pm
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I was just about to suggest something similar as a focus attack
Re: SHADEs of Manhattan 3: City of Chaos - Opinions wanted
#10  November 21, 2013, 09:55:20 pm
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This is for the good guys.

Sabotage
Spoiler, click to toggle visibilty

Snow

Spoiler, click to toggle visibilty

Adamas

Spoiler, click to toggle visibilty

Bloodtide

Spoiler, click to toggle visibilty

Det. Laurel

Spoiler, click to toggle visibilty

Zenith

Spoiler, click to toggle visibilty

Wyldestar

Spoiler, click to toggle visibilty

Ruckus

Spoiler, click to toggle visibilty

Edit: Here's the bad guys for sake of being a completionist.

Moses Maddigan

Spoiler, click to toggle visibilty

Kane Kelly

Spoiler, click to toggle visibilty

Vesper

Spoiler, click to toggle visibilty

Apollo

Spoiler, click to toggle visibilty

Specialist

Spoiler, click to toggle visibilty

Exile

Spoiler, click to toggle visibilty

Bryne

Spoiler, click to toggle visibilty

Fray

Spoiler, click to toggle visibilty
Last Edit: November 21, 2013, 10:50:06 pm by Cazaki
Re: SHADEs of Manhattan 3: City of Chaos - Opinions wanted
#11  November 22, 2013, 05:00:48 am
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- 6-button system
- 6 Supers (3DMs, 2HDMs and 1HSDM + different version on hp<333 )
- Guard Parry, Guard Counter
- 3-Levels Gauge Power
- Guard Gauge
Re: SHADEs of Manhattan 3: City of Chaos - Opinions wanted
#12  November 22, 2013, 06:16:00 am
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@Cazaki

Tons of stuff here, my responses in bold, spoilered because huge.

Spoiler, click to toggle visibilty

- 6-button system
- 6 Supers (3DMs, 2HDMs and 1HSDM + different version on hp<333 )
- Guard Parry, Guard Counter
- 3-Levels Gauge Power
- Guard Gauge

That seems like the opposite of streamlining the movesets. I've already decided it's going to be a 4-button system, and 6 supers for each character seems like overkill.

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Re: SHADEs of Manhattan 3: City of Chaos - Opinions wanted
#13  November 22, 2013, 07:05:54 am
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Responding to responses by PM because it's hard to do this all in thread IMO.

Did you think anything of what I thought for rolls, combo system, etc.?
Re: SHADEs of Manhattan 3: City of Chaos - Opinions wanted
#14  November 22, 2013, 07:21:23 am
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Will you be running the game on 1.1?

I'm very excited to see a new chapter in the series, even though I was predicting a sort of 2.5 ver before a third part.  Still I'm glad to see this continued in any way.
Re: SHADEs of Manhattan 3: City of Chaos - Opinions wanted
#15  November 22, 2013, 07:25:02 am
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Responding to responses by PM because it's hard to do this all in thread IMO.

Did you think anything of what I thought for rolls, combo system, etc.?

Oh yeah, doing a sort of Darkstalkers series for the faster/weaker characters is a great idea to extend their combos. The dodge rolls I don't see an issue with, KoF has had evasive/dodge rolls for years and there are still plenty of projectiles in those games that aren't rendered useless.

Will you be running the game on 1.1?

I'm very excited to see a new chapter in the series, even though I was predicting a sort of 2.5 ver before a third part.  Still I'm glad to see this continued in any way.

Not sure, haven't looked much into 1.1 yet to be honest. I know the stages have zooming and all that, but I'm not really sure what else has been added/changed.
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Re: SHADEs of Manhattan 3: City of Chaos - Opinions wanted
#16  November 22, 2013, 07:32:27 am
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Adamas' slide needs to be toned down a bit, it has really good range and the fact that it can knock someone over you is a God damn pain, that's really my only issue with him.

Would have preferred a 6 button layout but hey, whatever works better.


Yo let's not do 1.1 by the way, that thing is unstable currently.
Re: SHADEs of Manhattan 3: City of Chaos - Opinions wanted
#17  November 22, 2013, 07:38:54 am
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Cool. Fair enough as far as rolls go. I'm just worried about them is all.
Re: SHADEs of Manhattan 3: City of Chaos - Opinions wanted
#18  November 22, 2013, 08:16:37 am
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Hmmn.......  you did have some pretty neat intros for your characters Sean.
But I already have seen them
 
Spoiler, click to toggle visibilty

but why not make some new intros as well especially for Fray,Rukus etc. and I was hoping that you would make story structured fights this time.
And Why not you add ask Wizzy for the score of it instead of using different soundtrack from different places. Since you are triming the movesets maybe you can think of adding less Ex versions of characters this time...
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Re: SHADEs of Manhattan 3: City of Chaos - Opinions wanted
#19  November 22, 2013, 09:01:23 am
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Wizzy's music wouldn't fit with that environment, really. I'd prefer if he stuck to music he chooses as it can fit well.
Re: SHADEs of Manhattan 3: City of Chaos - Opinions wanted
#20  November 22, 2013, 09:40:43 am
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The plan for the music is for it all to be done by CVSNB, though it's been a while since we discussed it.
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