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Megaman (Classic) for CvTW (Read 175962 times)

Started by Sean Altly, July 08, 2013, 04:27:37 am
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Megaman (Classic) for CvTW
#1  July 08, 2013, 04:27:37 am
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Megaman!



So my Megaman will be based somewhat on DG's version, but more basic. DG's Megaman is great and very thorough, but if I included all the stuff he did, it wouldn't really fit in.

Anyway, Megaman gets his own thread unlike some of the other recent additions because I'd like to discuss his Special Weapons.

Megaman's UT will be his robot helpers, Auto, Beat, and Eddie. It was his Megabuster and Special Weapons, but nobody liked that idea. So Special Weapons are back to being a Special Move like in the MVC games.

Anyway, I'd like to have 6 different Special Weapons to choose from. I don't have time to go play every Megaman game over again to figure out which ones would be the best, so I'm aksing for your guys' opinions on this. I'd like them to be varied in usefulness (so no obvious repeats). Two of them will definitely be Tornado Hold and Leaf Shield, so I need help deciding on the other four.

Changed it to a Weapon Set system, with two sets, one representing MM 1-5, the other MM 6-10. Changes his other L1 Super as well.

Here are some early screens (more in the spoiler) and a brief move list:


Spoiler, click to toggle visibilty

UT

-Robot Helper
     -Beat - UT
     -Auto - B+UT
     -Eddie - F+UT

COMMAND MOVES

-Mega Buster - F+HP
    -His classic projectile.

-Charge Mega Buster - Hold HP
    -Charges up his Mega Buster. Release to fire a charged shot.

SPECIAL MOVES

-Mega Upper - DP+P
    -His Dragon punch, obviously.

-Mega Slide - QCF+K
    -Too good to be a cr.HK or a command normal, IMO (at least in this game). Will have great range and knocks the opponent into the air for follow-ups.

-Weapons Switch - D,D,P
    -Megaman starts with Special weapons from MM 1 through 5. Using this switches to weapons from Megaman 6 through 10. Using it again switches back.

WEAPON SET A - Megaman 1 through 5

-Metal Blade - QCF+LP
    -Fast, straight forward, single hit projectile. Metal Man's weapon from MM2.

-Rolling Cutter - QCF+HP
    -Boomerang-style projectile. Cutman's weapon from MM1.

-Magnet Missile (EX Only) - QCF+2P
    -Homing projectile. Magnet Man's weapon from MM3.

-Leaf Shield - QCB+LP
    -Leaf Shield weapon from MVC. Wood Man's weapon from MM2. Repeating the command fires the shield forward.

-Napalm Bomb - QCB+HP
    -An explosive weapon that has a delayed detonation. Napalm Man's weapon from MM5.

-Skull Barrier (EX Only) - QCB+2P
    -Basically a more damaging Leaf Shield. Skull Man's weapon from MM4.

WEAPON SET B - Megaman 6-10

-Silver Tomahawk - QCF+LP
    -Spinning blade that curves out and upwards. Tomahawk Man's weapon from MM6

-Tornado Hold - QCF+HP
    -Same weapon he has in MVC. Tengu Man's weapon from MM8.

-Danger Wrap (EX Only) - QCF+2P
    -A bubble that moves similarly to Silver Tomohawk. It captures the opponent momentarily, and then the bomb inside explodes. Burst Man's weapon from MM7.

-Chill Spike - QCB+LP
    -Short range ice projectile. If it makes direct contact, it freezes the opponent but inflicts no damage. If it lands, it turns into a small ice spike trap that lasts a few seconds. Chill Man's weapon from MM10.

-Thunder Claw - QCB+HP
    -Mid-range weapon that latches onto an opponent and pulls them to Megaman while damaging them. Holding forward when it hits will instead pull Megaman to them. Clown Man's weapon from MM8.

-Black Hole Bomb (EX Only) - QCB+2P
    -Mid-range projectile that implodes after a short distance, creating a black hole that damages the opponent. Galaxy Man's weapon from MM9.

SUPER MOVES

-L1 - Rush Drill - QCF+S
    -His Rush Drill super. May just be a rushing attack rather than something you take control of.

-L1 (Weapon Set A) - Atomic Fire - QCB+S
     -Surrounds Megaman in a shield of flames, and shoots a large fireball forward at the same time. Fire Man's weapon from MM1.

-L1 (Weapon Set B) - Astro Crush - QCB+S
    -Calls down a rain of large meteors. Astro Man's weapon from MM8.

-L3 - ???

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Last Edit: July 16, 2013, 11:33:44 am by Sean Swanson
Re: Megaman (Classic) for CvTW
#2  July 08, 2013, 04:35:49 am
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Re: Megaman (Classic) for CvTW
#3  July 08, 2013, 05:12:11 am
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I'd suggest using UT+different directions being different special weapons.  Different weapons could also be used when in the air. 
Examples would be:

Idle - Leaf Shield Activation.  Hold F+UT while active to shoot
F+UT - Tornado Hold.
B+UT - Black Hole Bomb.  Press once to shoot, press UT again to detonate.
D+UT - Super (Guts) Arm.  Press over a downed opponent to pick them up, press again to toss them.
Diagonal+UT - Metal Blade.  Would also work in air.
Idle (in air) - Top Spin.
F+UT (in air) - Flame Sword.
B+UT (in air) - Magnet Missle.  Shoots out a magnet that follows the opponent.
D+UT (in air) - Hard Knuckle.


Of course, you might have to change the buster shot to a QCF+P input.  Perhaps pressing P 3 more times would send out 3 more shots, and holding it down would charge.  I think this might be better as his mobility with his buster shot is a big part of his gameplay, and having that and his special weapons assigned to UT might mess with that.

Last Edit: July 08, 2013, 05:37:28 am by davismaximus
Re: Megaman (Classic) for CvTW
#4  July 08, 2013, 05:19:15 am
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I personally think it's better to come up with an hyper move that's either custom or inspired in the games rather than going for the Beat Plane. It's good to make an hyper that's actually based on the Megaman games, at least IMO.

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Last Edit: July 08, 2013, 05:27:18 am by MotorRoach
Re: Megaman (Classic) for CvTW
#5  July 08, 2013, 05:57:56 am
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Wheel Cutter from MM10 has the ability to scale walls and shit, so that might be a consideration.
Re: Megaman (Classic) for CvTW
#6  July 08, 2013, 07:18:13 am
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I would say with those added sprites that DG added, put them to work and maybe use them for the level 2, like the flying sprites. For me personally, because I've seen that Hyper Megaman moved so much, it would be nice if you did something else, like you did with Jill. Either way, it all sounds quite promising.

Some ideas going by this 1 for each game up to 8 from that list. As for sprites, I couldn't find any in a quick search but you may be able to use sprites from Megaman The Power Battles 1 and 2.
1- Gutsman's rock throw
2-Leaf Shield
3-Gemini Laser
4-Rain Flush
5-Gravity Hold
6-Flame Blast
7-Slash Claw
8-Tornado Hold

Although I know in the recently released game Project X Zone they used Megaman X, as an idea at least you could do a barrage based special similar to his special move seen in the video below.
Spoiler, click to toggle visibilty
Re: Megaman (Classic) for CvTW
#7  July 08, 2013, 01:16:01 pm
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Whoo, been waiting for this!

In all honesty, though, I'm not entirely sure that making Mega Buster his UT is a good idea. It basically cuts down on his movelist somewhat, and he could potentially be quite gimped because of that. I would suggest making Mega Buster his QCF, but keep the weapon change to the UT and have the weapons replace it. It'd add a bit of variety to his gameplay as well as filling out his movelist somewhat. For weapon changes, I'd suggest this:

Idle UT: Leaf Shield. Good defensive tool.
F + UT: Slash Claw. Think Wolverine's Beserker Barrage or Berserker Slash - either a good physical attack for closing distance or a projectile punish.
D + UT: Tornado Hold. Does whatever Tornado Hold does (OTG?).
B + UT: A good zoning weapon. Not sure if it should be Metal Blade or THunder Beam, but ideal it should do mutiple hits.
U + UT: Top Spin/Super Arm. Oddball weapon for variety - TS functions like a Tatsumaki or Bushinsenpuukayku, SA could be a grapple move.

Pressing the same combination again would restore the Mega Buster.

If neither of these appeals, you could always take a gander at Beximus's Mega Man and Roll from his Capcom Fighting Revolution project. Hopefully one of the moves he's got there might inspire you.

Looking forward to seeing what you can do with Mega Man! :)
Last Edit: July 08, 2013, 01:19:18 pm by Steel Komodo
Re: Megaman (Classic) for CvTW
#8  July 08, 2013, 01:28:42 pm
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I agree with the above guys, making his buster the UT is not a good idea.  Instead, map out the different buster powers to his UT.  Also, the above guys gave great UT ideas, so I'll just throw this out there: make the UT a level 1, since there will be eight different UT's to play with.

Also, I'd map out LK+LP for the helpers, just seems more like a command move to me.  Map out something like an auto-combo for QCB+P/K instead.
Re: Megaman (Classic) for CvTW
#9  July 08, 2013, 02:04:45 pm
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Condensing all the above suggestions + making use of 1.0 palette change + even closer to the actual game's gameplay :

QCF+P as the buster (doesn't consume any UT)
Direction+UT changes the weapon
By itself, it doesn't consume any UT, but the palette changes
use QCF+P to use the weapon currently selected
This is when it consumes some UT, depending on the weapon you're using
Repeat same direction+UT, or just UT without any direction, to restore the buster

Downsides :
- can't use any weapon on the fly, have to switch and then qcf
- palettes will be tougher to manage since it'll have to account for the weapon palettes (unless the palette for a given weapon is the same regardless of selected palette)
- if all weapons share the UT bar, their usage will be very limited in a match to strategic usage so it'll require each weapon to be really special ; but then again that's also where all other possibilities were going

Upsides :
- just like the game
- won't use the wrong weapon by mistake just because you got confused with directions and won't waste UT which is common for all your weapons
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Last Edit: July 08, 2013, 02:23:18 pm by DKDC
Re: Megaman (Classic) for CvTW
#10  July 08, 2013, 03:34:09 pm
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you could add the bubble gun from Megaman 2. it would act like Onslaught's Hypergrab or Abyss' second form bubble attack. perhaps it would do no damage but trap the enemy opening them up for devastation.
Re: Megaman (Classic) for CvTW
#11  July 08, 2013, 04:28:46 pm
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If you make all the other weapons take super, you should give megaman a few more special moves. Like an ariel one or some sorta comboing one. He seems limited with only three.
Re: Megaman (Classic) for CvTW
#12  July 08, 2013, 05:00:11 pm
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Have each weapon being from a different game, that way it will have more variety. Since you'll already use Leaf Shield and Tornado Hold, this covers Megaman 2 and 8. My suggestions:

* Rolling Cutter (Megaman): Boomerang projectile, hits twice
* Search Snake (Megaman 3): Ground projectile, can be fired in sucession
* Dive Missile (Megaman 4): Homing projectile
* Napalm Bomb (Megaman 5): Bouncing projectile
* Silver Tomahawk (Megaman 6): Arcing projectile, goes up after being fired
* Freeze Cracker (Megaman 7): Aimable projectile
* Magma Bazooka (Megaman 9): Triple projetile, fires three shots that go in different directions
Re: Megaman (Classic) for CvTW
#13  July 08, 2013, 07:32:55 pm
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He's only going to have 6 different weapons, including Tornado Hold and Leaf Shield, so I only need 4 other weapons. Also, I just don't see the problem with having his Mega Buster be his UT. Several of you have said it's a problem, but then your alternate suggestions don't really seem to solve the problem IMO. Making Megabuster QCF+P makes it a special move with an actual command to enter, which makes it more complicated to shoot it, which seems like it'd be an issue since his mobility with his buster shot is supposedly a big part of his gameplay. DKDC's idea just seems like a more complicated version of my own, since his essentially removes the Megabuster whenever you're using a special weapon, which in turn would supposedly be bad.

As for his moveset being limited, in MVC the only specials he had were his Special Weapons (calling for them and using them) and his Mega Upper. I've increased on his specials count here by making his Mega Slide a special and including the Helpers from DG's version. I'm not interested in creating new sprites for him outside of new Special Weapons.

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Re: Megaman (Classic) for CvTW
#14  July 08, 2013, 07:51:05 pm
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Making his slide a special is like making Claw or Sim slide a special unless you'd give it special properties like making it as stupid as MK9 Sub-Zero EX Slide or something practical like OTG shenanigans or followups. If you're not gonna do anything special with the slide, turning it into a special seems rather pointless.

Having his Mega Buster as a command special like qcf+P would make it no different from Jill's charge; weak shot could be faster and smaller, heavy shot could be as large as it is right now but slower and chargeable.

I'm gonna go with the majority and say that having multiple weapon options as his UT would be the better course of action, preferably the MVC selection, but a few special weapons as well. Those could cost meter to make appear. Possibly some of the more effective weapons in the series such as Metal Blade or Wheel Cutter, I dunno. As for that missing super, why not just give him Flash Man's Time Stopper, doing a two second time freeze for combo extensions and projectile pressure setups?

There's so much you can do with this Megaman but it seems like you want to restrict yourself to stuff that would make him more basic that what he could potentially be. Which seems like a damn shame, but hey.
Re: Megaman (Classic) for CvTW
#15  July 08, 2013, 08:01:38 pm
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Lots of useful suggestions for his Special Weapons have been given already, so I just want to leave a note that it will be appreciated if you didn't include the Hyper Megaman, personally I always found it dumb and out of place. I'd make his Super Moves from some (other) Special Weapons as well, and drop both Rush, Beat and Hyper Megaman; I don't think they'll fit as well in this setting.

The Supers could still put Megaman in a temporary 'alt mode' like the Rush Drill etc. did, but with a Special Weapon instead.

One Super could be "Metal Man mode" where all your other special weapons are disabled but instead, you can spam Metal Blades into any 8-way direction for a limited amount of time.
Another Super could be 'Crash Man mode" where you can shoot out a bunch of Crash Bombs, that'll stick to the ground/wall/the enemy and after a short while, detonate.

That's just my 2 cents, it's all up to you ofcourse but I just highly dislike the Rush Drill/Beat Plane/Hyper Megaman,
and with this you'll set the character apart from other (MvC) Megamans a great deal.

ps. If you need new animations of Megaman himself, you should contact Diepod, I know he made some (some new medium/heavy attacks).
Re: Megaman (Classic) for CvTW
#16  July 08, 2013, 08:03:22 pm
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@ Shwa

When I said in the first post he was going to be more "basic," I meant he wasn't going to include all of the extra stuff that DG's had (the Rush Armor stuff, the extra supers, etc.). I'm already including more than Capcom thought to give him in their own fighting game. I'm only "restricting" myself to what I feel works within the context of this game, though like I said, I don't see how it's "restricted" when it's more special moves and more Special Weapons than Capcom gave him in the MVC games.

I said in the first post that the Megaslide would be a special because in the setting of this game, it would be too good for a cr.Hk or a command normal. In MVC it was fine, but here, It moves very far and very fast, which seems more like a special move to me. I don't think it needs any extra properties besides doing a little more damage than it would if it were a normal. Maybe wait and see how it feels before calling it pointless. It worked out fine turning Jin Saotome's HK and cr.HK into specials.

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Re: Megaman (Classic) for CvTW
#17  July 08, 2013, 08:54:06 pm
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Yeah, after reading all that, Sean, I'm not sure I'm looking forward to this anymore. There's so much you could do with him, and I understand you want to cut down on the stuff DG did, but I think you're playing it too safe here in comparison to what could be done. I understand that his mobility with the Mega Buster was supposed to be his thing, but who said you had to stick to that? The problem with keeping his Mega Buster his UT is that in the end he'll play too similar to his MvC version, and on top of that this will gimp his special move list something fierce and potentially render him low-tier. Poor Megs needs more specials, darn it :(

So yeah, not so enthused on this anymore. Think I'll stick with Skullo as my main.
Re: Megaman (Classic) for CvTW
#18  July 08, 2013, 09:16:40 pm
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You could replace one of his punches with his Buster, IIRC that's what they're doing with him in the new Smash Bros.  I disagree with you Komodo, more specials doesn't necessarily mean better gameplay.
Re: Megaman (Classic) for CvTW
#19  July 08, 2013, 09:17:38 pm
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I think having the Megabuster as a command move would make more sense typically, since normally Megaman doesn't have access to his normal Megabuster if he has a special weapon equipped anyhow. You could in turn make it so pressing left or right + UT would scroll through the weapons he has, and just have the UT represent the bar for the sub-weapons, with some draining more and some less. Having said that if Megabuster was a command would mean that light + command could be a single shot, hard + command would be double, and EX + command could be like a double or charge shot.

Also, I guess if anything you can take some inspiration from the Smash Bros footage of him too.
Re: Megaman (Classic) for CvTW
#20  July 08, 2013, 09:19:06 pm
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Yeah, after reading all that, Sean, I'm not sure I'm looking forward to this anymore. There's so much you could do with him, and I understand you want to cut down on the stuff DG did, but I think you're playing it too safe here in comparison to what could be done. I understand that his mobility with the Mega Buster was supposed to be his thing, but who said you had to stick to that? The problem with keeping his Mega Buster his UT is that in the end he'll play too similar to his MvC version, and on top of that this will gimp his special move list something fierce and potentially render him low-tier. Poor Megs needs more specials, darn it :(

So yeah, not so enthused on this anymore. Think I'll stick with Skullo as my main.

How can it "gimp" his Special Move list when he has MORE special moves than in MVC? Am I missing something here? At what point did it become expected of me to be better and more creative than Capcom? When did that become a thing? When did expanding a character's moveset become gimping someone's moveset? Those are the opposite of each other.

More specials + More Special Weapons + Custom Super in Place of Beat Plane != Gimping.

You're not looking forward to him anymore? I'm not really looking forward to making him anymore. Something about people telling you your ideas are bad and your changes pointless and your LARGER moveset being somehow SMALLER that really saps motivation. This is a full-game. He needs to fit in. I wasn't setting out to revolutionize Megaman in Mugen. I wasn't setting out to replace him in anyone's roster. I wasn't setting out to do this better than the actual company who created him. I wanted to know which Special Weapons you guys wanted him to have.

Before anyone gives me shit about not being able to take feedback, I ask you to reread this thread. Look at all the contradictions and premature judgments and especially the quoted post, and if you still feel like I'm overreacting, then we'll simply have to agree to disagree. Thanks.

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