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"Introduction and Guides" section is a bit of a mess (Read 10544 times)

Started by Loona, October 14, 2009, 03:11:48 am
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Loona

"Introduction and Guides" section is a bit of a mess
#1  October 14, 2009, 03:11:48 am
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The Introduction section isn't a mess because it's where newcomers are expected to drop by, introduce themselves and ask their first questions.

The problem is that other than that it contains several newbie-level tutorial topics in much earlier pages of the section, where noone who needs them is likely to find them.

A simple suggestion: since Development Help is for questions, but has a Tips 6 Tutorials subsection in it to contain tutorials, configuration Help could get one too, and the ones currently in Introduction and Guides could be moved there.

Another point in favour of this is that since currently there's an effort to clean up stickies in the forum, probably at least one or two of the ones in the Introduction section could be replaced to a link to the new configuration tutorials section, maybe some would be moved there as well.

Iced

Re: "Introduction and Guides" section is a bit of a mess
#2  October 17, 2009, 12:28:52 am
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I think this is part of the spring cleaning we need to do, the section has mutated over time, but i think it still is valuable as a "introduce yourself and see basic stuff."
There are tons of people that never go further than that section itself, because they find the info they need and they dont need the forum anymore ( not everyone gonna want to create stuff, some just want to fiddle a bit with a game they downloaded and be on their way after five minutes) .
It might require some evaluationon what sticks around there, but i think that what should be valued is this.. We shouldnt go around removing threads and discussions on introductions by new people, they are posting for the first time, most have never used a forum, and its pretty aggressive to have some mod waltz into their newly made thread in the introduction area of all places and go like "NOPE NOT HERE NOOB"

How far do we need to scrutinize? That is up for debate.

Loona

Re: "Introduction and Guides" section is a bit of a mess
#3  October 17, 2009, 12:48:17 am
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I have no issue with keeping introductions there, that became th de facto function of the place - I only take issue with the practically lost tutorial threads buried under all of that where they're unlikely to be found.

a new sub-section under configuration Help might help contain the ones not fitting for Tip & Tutorials under Development Help.

Perhaps I need to hunt for and put together a list of those buried threads...

Loona

Re: "Introduction and Guides" section is a bit of a mess
#4  October 19, 2009, 06:40:17 pm
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Just poking around the last couple of pages in "Introduction and Guides" provided this list of tutorial threads:

http://mugenguild.com/forumx/index.php?topic=7274.0
http://mugenguild.com/forumx/index.php?topic=30094.0
http://mugenguild.com/forumx/index.php?topic=34097.0
http://mugenguild.com/forumx/index.php?topic=37984.0
http://mugenguild.com/forumx/index.php?topic=48084.0
http://mugenguild.com/forumx/index.php?topic=54352.0
http://mugenguild.com/forumx/index.php?topic=66728.0
http://mugenguild.com/forumx/index.php?topic=64271.0
http://mugenguild.com/forumx/index.php?topic=61724.0
http://mugenguild.com/forumx/index.php?topic=6612.0
http://mugenguild.com/forumx/index.php?topic=68251.0
http://mugenguild.com/forumx/index.php?topic=54431.0
http://mugenguild.com/forumx/index.php?topic=6567.0
http://mugenguild.com/forumx/index.php?topic=47053.0
http://mugenguild.com/forumx/index.php?topic=49236.0

There's good and not so great stuff, some links that could use some updating, and there are rapidshare/sendspace links I didn't really test - but despite issues like these, some of these are quite good to get people started, but they're in a place where whomever benefits from them won't find them.

There's probably more in that section, but there's only so much time I'll put in hunting for those if the people in charge themselves won't care enough to do somethin about it...

Loona

Re: "Introduction and Guides" section is a bit of a mess
#5  March 26, 2010, 03:25:27 pm
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Iced said, October 17, 2009, 12:28:52 am
How far do we need to scrutinize? That is up for debate.

Debate hasn't happened in a while.

That section is stuff used to create "hi I'm new" threads despite there being a sticky for that purpose. Tutorials are still buried in later pages without a container section of their own or some other way that would make them simpler to find.

TempesT

Re: "Introduction and Guides" section is a bit of a mess
#6  April 05, 2010, 02:41:37 am
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Loona said, October 19, 2009, 06:40:17 pm
Just poking around the last couple of pages in "Introduction and Guides" provided this list of tutorial threads:

http://mugenguild.com/forumx/index.php?topic=7274.0
http://mugenguild.com/forumx/index.php?topic=30094.0
http://mugenguild.com/forumx/index.php?topic=34097.0
http://mugenguild.com/forumx/index.php?topic=37984.0
http://mugenguild.com/forumx/index.php?topic=48084.0
http://mugenguild.com/forumx/index.php?topic=54352.0
http://mugenguild.com/forumx/index.php?topic=66728.0
http://mugenguild.com/forumx/index.php?topic=64271.0
http://mugenguild.com/forumx/index.php?topic=61724.0
http://mugenguild.com/forumx/index.php?topic=6612.0
http://mugenguild.com/forumx/index.php?topic=68251.0
http://mugenguild.com/forumx/index.php?topic=54431.0
http://mugenguild.com/forumx/index.php?topic=6567.0
http://mugenguild.com/forumx/index.php?topic=47053.0
http://mugenguild.com/forumx/index.php?topic=49236.0
TempesT said, April 05, 2010, 02:30:50 am
[...]I find that they're either a) Too old to matter which section they're in; b) Can fit just fine in Introductions and Guides

Thanks for the enthusiasm though.


Loona said, October 19, 2009, 06:40:17 pm
There's good and not so great stuff, some links that could use some updating, and there are rapidshare/sendspace links I didn't really test - but despite issues like these, some of these are quite good to get people started, but they're in a place where whomever benefits from them won't find them.

There's probably more in that section, but there's only so much time I'll put in hunting for those if the people in charge themselves won't care enough to do somethin about it...
The same could be said about dead links and valuable content in Releases too. Information is, for the most part, already quite readily available.

The FAQ in that section also covers quite a bit already, so updating a bunch of demi-guides isn't as necessary as one would think. It creates work where work doesn't need to be, however I will get around to merging all the "HEY SUP LOL" topics to the Introduction thread, for the sake of cleanliness, as that aspect is definitely ignored without cause.
you can't mixup a blind man, and you can't out think a brick ~skisonic
Street fighting is all about analysis, prediction, and reaction. That's it.

Loona

Re: "Introduction and Guides" section is a bit of a mess
#7  April 05, 2010, 02:50:10 am
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TempesT said, April 05, 2010, 02:41:37 am
The same could be said about dead links and valuable content in Releases too. Information is, for the most part, already quite readily available.

Except released cretions are in a section where people expect to search for and find them - while tutorials are spread in two, leading to people possibly failing a search on a particular issue because they only look under Tips & Tutorials, while the issue in question may actually have its own topic in Introduction & Guides.
There's a difference between the information beig available and being intuitive to find, which is pretty much at the core of my concerns regarding topic (mis)placement.

TempesT

Re: "Introduction and Guides" section is a bit of a mess
#8  April 05, 2010, 02:51:35 am
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Tips, Tricks and Tutorials is in Dev Help, which is a section I'd like to consider separate from simple stuff like installing screenpacks and new characters.

Entering the Development Help section at all, if your problem or question is about what I said, is overwhelming just by looking at the names of the threads, not to mention actually clicking on them.
you can't mixup a blind man, and you can't out think a brick ~skisonic
Street fighting is all about analysis, prediction, and reaction. That's it.

Loona

Re: "Introduction and Guides" section is a bit of a mess
#9  April 05, 2010, 02:59:00 am
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Loona said, October 14, 2009, 03:11:48 am
A simple suggestion: since Development Help is for questions, but has a Tips & Tutorials subsection in it to contain tutorials, configuration Help could get one too, and the ones currently in Introduction and Guides could be moved there.

TempesT

Re: "Introduction and Guides" section is a bit of a mess
#10  April 05, 2010, 03:01:47 am
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Like I said before, the FAQ covers a huge amount of stuff already. Going beyond that would be when you would go into Dev Help.
you can't mixup a blind man, and you can't out think a brick ~skisonic
Street fighting is all about analysis, prediction, and reaction. That's it.

Loona

Re: "Introduction and Guides" section is a bit of a mess
#11  April 05, 2010, 03:04:36 am
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The fine point of having a section for this sort of thing is that people can make topics for stuff not (yet) covered in FAQs, IMO.

TempesT

Re: "Introduction and Guides" section is a bit of a mess
#12  April 05, 2010, 03:05:54 am
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I need to see an example of a topic where the question wasn't covered in the FAQ before I can agree to that.
you can't mixup a blind man, and you can't out think a brick ~skisonic
Street fighting is all about analysis, prediction, and reaction. That's it.

Loona

Re: "Introduction and Guides" section is a bit of a mess
#13  April 05, 2010, 03:24:33 am
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TempesT said, April 05, 2010, 03:05:54 am
I need to see an example of a topic where the question wasn't covered in the FAQ before I can agree to that.

If you need only one check the very first one from the list you even quoted - like hell I'll go through all of them this late into the night.


Edit: turn out for that particular thread there's a sort of equivalent topic,  but the one in I&G is better illustrated.
Last Edit: April 05, 2010, 03:32:14 am by Loona

TempesT

Re: "Introduction and Guides" section is a bit of a mess
#14  April 05, 2010, 05:11:34 am
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Tell you what. I will put in the good word for you down at HQ if you stop reporting posts from 2004. (or just reporting in general)

Deal? Deal.
you can't mixup a blind man, and you can't out think a brick ~skisonic
Street fighting is all about analysis, prediction, and reaction. That's it.

Loona

Re: "Introduction and Guides" section is a bit of a mess
#15  April 05, 2010, 11:28:32 am
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Mod work isn't just banhammer wielding, it involves some maintenance too - just because someone neglected stuff years ago doesn't means it has to stay neglected.

c001357

Re: "Introduction and Guides" section is a bit of a mess
#16  April 05, 2010, 12:54:45 pm
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maybe we could have ttt be its own board?
some of the concerns are outdated, with mugen1.0 and all.. a new thread could be made to address the new mugen
Last Edit: April 05, 2010, 12:59:56 pm by c001357

Cyanide

Re: "Introduction and Guides" section is a bit of a mess
#17  April 05, 2010, 10:35:11 pm
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Users's can move their own topics. Users can lock their own topics.

The forum has worked well for the past 4 years without any real issue with those threads where they are. The do not impact the use or readability of the forum.

Stop being pedantic.


In M.U.G.E.N there is no magic button

They say a little knowledge is a dangerous thing, but it's not one half so bad as a lot of ignorance.

Loona

Re: "Introduction and Guides" section is a bit of a mess
#18  April 05, 2010, 10:51:30 pm
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Cyanide said, April 05, 2010, 10:35:11 pm
Users's can move their own topics. Users can lock their own topics.

Thing is, for the most part they don't.

Which is OK when several other people can.

Quote
The forum has worked well for the past 4 years without any real issue with those threads where they are. The do not impact the use or readability of the forum.

What they may impact is the "searcheability" of the forum, not its readability - and that's more important to newcomers than veterans who already know where to find things.

So when I do find something out of place the immediate reaction tends to be to use the one option immediately available as a regular user - report so it gets moved and ceases to be a concern.

Every time one such topic happens to be particularly old topic I hope/expect it's the last time, otherwise I'd just start compile a list and create a topic for that sort of thing.
It's an option I'm starting to take more seriously considering the "OMG OLD" reactions from the staff - something not unlike the hall of fame topic, only for listing misplaced topics that are too old. Maybe if I find half a dozen more or so. Not like I'll be searching for them or something.

Then again, considering how long a topic like this one was left with no reply... heh...

JustNoPoint

Re: "Introduction and Guides" section is a bit of a mess
#19  October 16, 2014, 02:57:37 pm
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I'm bumping this back up because I think there is merit to this idea of a sub forum to MUGEN Configuration Help.

My 1st thought reading through this thread was that these posts should be either added to the FAQ or simply linked to from the FAQ. However that does not encourage new activity and a FAQ that needs constant updating is much mess likely to be kept up to date.
Another thing I noticed were conversations due to the thread and in many cases repeated information/posts. Much is added in conversation and I feel it's a good thing to have repeat information. Different people explain things in different ways and where 1 explanation may fail a user another may succeed.

In short, is there a strong reason against adding this? It looks like it was almost added 5 years ago.

Loona

Re: "Introduction and Guides" section is a bit of a mess
#20  October 16, 2014, 03:12:40 pm
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Just No Point said, October 16, 2014, 02:57:37 pm
In short, is there a strong reason against adding this? It looks like it was almost added 5 years ago.

I get the impression that most mods and admin end up expecting somebody else to do it, so ultimately nobody does - case in point, nobody has bothered to move all those topics I listed above almost 5 years ago, despite the fact that all the searching's already done, and it only takes about 2 or 3 clicks to take care of each of them.

JustNoPoint

Re: "Introduction and Guides" section is a bit of a mess
#21  October 16, 2014, 03:13:56 pm
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Well, right now there isn't a good place to move them. If/when I make this board I'll move them then of course =)

Loona

Re: "Introduction and Guides" section is a bit of a mess
#22  October 16, 2014, 04:50:16 pm
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Just No Point said, October 16, 2014, 03:13:56 pm
Well, right now there isn't a good place to move them. If/when I make this board I'll move them then of course =)

It's called Tips, Tricks & Tutorials - out of the current sections, it's the most adequate. If a new section for config tutorials eventually gets created, topic like these can be moved from the existing section to the new one.
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