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Grappling Vs Combo Making (Read 23435 times)

Started by TempesT, February 23, 2008, 12:23:52 pm
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Grappling Vs Combo Making
#1  February 23, 2008, 12:23:52 pm
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There are quite a few games that I have in mind where the resident grappler (or grapplers) interests me more than the entire cast. Alex and Hugo from Street Fighter 3 is an immediate duo that comes to mind. I never really liked Zangief though for some reason, he seemed so limited in moves (Hugo's Giant Palm Bomber > that stupid blue/green energy thing). Orochi Yashiro, in any game that he's been a part of also strikes my fancy. Something about grabbing someone who's trying to combo you and tossing them, squishing them or generally making them flop around just appeals to me on a completely different level.

Although some people aren't really too keen on grapplers since they would seem to have limited movement, a limited moveset, or just plain ol' limited options when it comes to setting up an opponent for damage. Actually, I don't think that's the case, I think that grapplers are an amazing way to counter that person that's trying to rush you down, or cross you over.

Anyways, do you guys prefer grappling or standard combo making and cross ups?
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Last Edit: February 23, 2008, 12:41:41 pm by Franziska von Karma
Re: Grappling Vs Combo Making
#2  February 23, 2008, 12:55:11 pm
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I prefer mind games and timing. Grapplers, through complex commands and my lack of (and no desire to own) gamepad means i tend to leave them alone. Combo's are only fun for me in the VS games where they're pretty button mashy. And i tend to get bored doing them even then.

Anyway, grapplers don't suit. Cept maybe ramon who's about 50% grappler and quite interesting if you can get moving.


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Re: Grappling Vs Combo Making
#3  February 23, 2008, 01:48:38 pm
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Personally i'm a combo man that likes to fight a good grappler lol

Alex from SF3 really does interest me and always made me think "if they made him right, he'd be bad ass" since then GM coded him (brilliantly!!) and he is bad ass but I wouldn't play as him, however I really like fighting against him!

Zangeif doesn't really interest me either, he just seems too slugish but if someone know's how to use him he's also brilliant, but I never enjoy fighting him that much.

Brings me to tekken and King (IMO one of the best grapplers in a fighting game). I think this guy has been done fantastically, He's got enough grapples to use against combo opponants as well as his grapples can be combo'd with longer start up times making it hard enough to pull off but rewarding if you connect.

I dont think 2D grapplers can really become great as alot of the time if you slightly adjust your game play (and keep a certain range) its fairly easy to see what the grappler is going to do most of the time (depending on the persons skill level), its very 3D orientated style of fighting which is why you see grapplers like King being used in tekken but grapplers like zangeif rarely being used in SF.

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Re: Grappling Vs Combo Making
#4  February 23, 2008, 03:13:05 pm
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Im pretty handy with Clark Steel, Shermie, and Blue Mary in the KOF series, and there all grappler's...to the point im also good with King, Terry, and Billy Kane which are jugglers...so id say 50/50 for me.

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Re: Grappling Vs Combo Making
#5  February 23, 2008, 04:02:10 pm
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I'm not any good with Grapplers at all in 2D fighters, I don't exactly have the finger dexterity to pull off a three sixty + attack button when an opening appears
(Heck, I even had trouble pulling off Rock's Shinku Nage in CvS2).

I'd rather go for the all-out attacking method when it comes to 2D fighters. As for 3D, Armor King I can use a fair bit, but I'd rather rely on the one-hit flooring/knockback attacks of other characters to do the job.
Re: Grappling Vs Combo Making
#6  February 23, 2008, 05:20:34 pm
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don't mind either, though i might wsay i favor grapplers because they normally don't break games unloike combo characters that have a bigger tendency of being favored with infinites or just plain cheap combos.
Re: Grappling Vs Combo Making
#7  February 23, 2008, 06:42:30 pm
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my fav char in SVC is Hugo, I like the way he hurls opponents against walls and breaks their bones in many fashions...but against human foes chances taht you win are thin


in KOF, I don't use Clark against cpu although I manipulate him very well, because he's too cheap combos and I don't enjoy play when I kill opponents that easy from the moment I pull out a successful air punch especially when it's not that flashy,I may use it against human opponents but it's rare...


I like Shermie, she's got moves for every situation and the chance they can hit the foe are large, and it encourages me do the non flasy crap because sexiness FTW


when I feel the lust to play some grappler other than shermie, I choose Goro


I prefer to pick Yashiro rather than O.Yashiro...


so the chars I can play with that often are Iori, Angel, Yashiro, Shermie,Takuma, Billy, Whip, Kyo, and Vice


in SFA3, I prefer to play either with Guy, Rolento, or Zangief when I want to change a bit


in SF3, I enjoy playing Urien, Necro, Alex, Yang and Yun


all in all, I like to experience the maximum number/variety of combos I can in a fight, grappling based play is more necessary when opponents are hard to throw moves(combo starters) on
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Re: Grappling Vs Combo Making
#8  February 23, 2008, 08:25:34 pm
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I can see why you'd like grapplers: They are the characters who can stop the combo spammers before they begin a two hit combo. Personally I love 'em and think they are underrepresented in fighting games. If it were up to me I'd have the grappler characters equal to the number of other characters.

Because any idiot can make five different striker characters, but it takes alot of skill to make five different grapple characters.

Personally I wish more characters like Gen existed. Gen can combo in two different fighting styles and perform an anti air grapple.

But back to the topic, grappling characters are so underrepresented. I wish there were more of a variety of different fighting styles and movesets in fighting games. KOF is the only one who even got close to a fraction of my ideal. Fighting games in general need less "guys wearing a karate gi" and more guys and gals who have specific fighting traits that make their movesets unique.

For example look at Yang and Yun. One fights like Gen while the other fights like Lee. Two characters with their own style of fighting. And even if they fight the same they wouldn't mirror Gen and Lee's movesets. This is what I am talking about.
Re: Grappling Vs Combo Making
#9  February 23, 2008, 08:45:19 pm
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I kinda like both, but more of striking. If my opponent is blocking too much of my striking and stuff, I'll grab them to panic them, then start striking again.
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Re: Grappling Vs Combo Making
#10  February 23, 2008, 08:46:09 pm
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I don't like grapplers in 2D fighting games but I do like them in 3D fighters. 2D grapplers' control scheme has (and still is) always been difficult for me. I could never time my 360 degree rotations right, which always left me vulnerable.

some people aren't really too keen on grapplers since they would seem to have limited movement, a limited moveset, or just plain ol' limited options when it comes to setting up an opponent for damage.

That's another reason why I don't like them. Direct combo-ers and fighters that require some kind of charging are more of my forte.

Re: Grappling Vs Combo Making
#11  February 23, 2008, 09:18:52 pm
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I like grapplers, although I fail when it comes to using them. R.Mika comes to mind. King was one of my favorite characters as well. I even enjoyed having my ass handed to me by a King player (even if it also installed some fear into me.)
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Imagine a zanguief runing to attack ryu, ryu does a quick+kind of weak fast punch and hit the chest of zanguief, will this punch be enough to zanguief say/think \"oh no, this punch hurted a little, I better stop the attack and put my hand on my chest to help contain the pain while ignoring if ryu is going to make other attacks now"


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Re: Grappling Vs Combo Making
#12  February 24, 2008, 02:26:52 am
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One thing I don't like, is projectile spammers. It's a bit easier in SF3 to get to them, because of parry, but the other earlier games, if someone decided to spam projectiles against a grappler, it was almost guaranteed that the grappler would lose.

I absolutely cannot play as someone that has a projectile. It just erks me to throw them, I guess I'm old fashioned like that!
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Street fighting is all about analysis, prediction, and reaction. That's it.

Re: Grappling Vs Combo Making
#13  February 24, 2008, 02:39:13 am
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im 75 combo 25 grapple

only grappler i am good with is Wolf Hawkfield from VF. Reached Master rank with him and i am pretty damn confident

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Re: Grappling Vs Combo Making
#14  February 24, 2008, 02:41:01 am
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I'm a jack of all playstyles and because of that I want more diverse grapplers.

In SFIICE I play gief (along with everyone else) and I can say that fireball spammers in that game are only annoying if they spam very intelligently if they stupidly spam they are going to eat a cross up splash crouching jabx2 standing light kick sweep then walk up and okizime mind games.

KOF grapplers feel more like assault vehicles that just happen to be able to grapple other than grapplecentric which I fully enjoy as well.

Hugo is probably my favorite grappler because of the clap + ultrathrow combos.

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Re: Grappling Vs Combo Making
#15  February 24, 2008, 03:02:56 am
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I'm personally a combo guy.  I find performing combos more convienent rather than try to get close and try to throw people for a majority of a fight.  But that's probably because my fighting style is usually limited to performing combos rather than trying to go in for a massive throw.

Although grapplers have the ability to breakthrough some combos, I think they are a pain to perform and are a waste of time, especially for an aggressive fighter such as myself.  Either that, or a fighter (either human controlled or AI) who is so aggressive that you can't get close to grapple or you don't have the time to perform a grappling move when close as they are beating you to the punch before then.

As for the small subject of projectile-spamming, I hate being caught against it, and will only use it in totally desperate situations.

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Re: Grappling Vs Combo Making
#16  February 24, 2008, 04:16:00 am
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One thing I don't like, is projectile spammers...if someone decided to spam projectiles against a grappler, it was almost guaranteed that the grappler would lose.

I absolutely cannot play as someone that has a projectile.

I hate being caught against it, and will only use it in totally desperate situations.

An eye for an eye against cheap opponents (....if it isn't the constant proj barrage then it's the footsweeping  --;)
Re: Grappling Vs Combo Making
#17  February 24, 2008, 09:08:13 am
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Re: Grappling Vs Combo Making
#18  February 24, 2008, 11:02:32 am
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I'm more of a button-masher, myself.
Re: Grappling Vs Combo Making
#19  February 24, 2008, 03:13:35 pm
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Only time I use grapplers outside of Vice mind games is when I get Geif in CvS2 randoms.  I was playing against a combo happy Hibiki and I had K groove.  I just ended up jammed in the corner trying to mash 360's i had about 5% life left Hibiki had like 90% out of no where I pull a final atomic buster to win with a finest KO...that's what I don't like out about Geif in that game even the worst players with him (like me) can pull off an ego crushing victory
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Re: Grappling Vs Combo Making
#20  February 25, 2008, 03:57:07 am
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well some people dont play some characters right since most try to rushdown people with a grappler. you cant  pull it off good. just today when i went to the arcade i saw a match with alex and yun. sure its a hard fight but the yun was garbage, so i see the alex trying to go in and get the half circle back throw on yun without setting it up. its just to hard you have to time those things. gief all you need is for them to block your down roundhouse and you get your free throw. but yea stupid people try to rushdown with throwers instead of baiting.
as for kof o. yashiro is waaaaaay better but hes a mix of poking and throwing but hes so godlike. same for clark and daimon. but kof is a thing of its own.
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Re: Grappling Vs Combo Making
#21  February 25, 2008, 04:16:52 am
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No need to apologize for bumping my awesome topic. Recently, I've started to learn to buffer the Gigas Breaker on keyboard a bit easier. I also like how Hugo's LK Shootdown Backbreaker is effective enough to use as a wake up to jump ins.
you can't mixup a blind man, and you can't out think a brick ~skisonic
Street fighting is all about analysis, prediction, and reaction. That's it.

Re: Grappling Vs Combo Making
#22  February 25, 2008, 09:51:46 am
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then it's the footsweeping
Nothing wrong with foot sweeping, learn to block ;P.

I find some things you just can't get your head round defending. You know EXACTLY whats about to happen, yet you walk straight into it. I tend to do that VS O.yashiro's DM. I know it's unblockable, yet i still try to block it.


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Re: Grappling Vs Combo Making
#23  February 25, 2008, 12:43:37 pm
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LOL ALMANAC!!! You and your brooms!

I wish 2002 Orochi Yashiro had that cool awesome throw he had in 97. Actually, I used to this Orochi Yashiro 2002 was pretty badass until I played his 97 counterpart, which was, by definition, much more badass.
you can't mixup a blind man, and you can't out think a brick ~skisonic
Street fighting is all about analysis, prediction, and reaction. That's it.

Re: Grappling Vs Combo Making
#24  February 25, 2008, 07:44:13 pm
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then play maxima  :P j/k

I agree with the rox throw, but look at the frames of his stance  :-X
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Re: Grappling Vs Combo Making
#25  February 25, 2008, 10:09:47 pm
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then it's the footsweeping
Nothing wrong with foot sweeping, learn to block ;P.

I find some things you just can't get your head round defending. You know EXACTLY whats about to happen, yet you walk straight into it. I tend to do that VS O.yashiro's DM. I know it's unblockable, yet i still try to block it.

Sounds like me in a game of Tekken 5. I hate those three kicks Xiayou puts on a opponent to knock them in the air. The opponent has no time to recover on the ground and roll away..

Re: Grappling Vs Combo Making
#26  February 26, 2008, 02:19:09 am
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hugo on keyboard. holyshit temp you good or you just messing around?

be careful with that wakeup since they coudl bait you

like cars in reverse ,  ya better back up
Re: Grappling Vs Combo Making
#27  February 26, 2008, 03:05:14 am
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I'm OK with Hugo on keyboard, but Gigas can be a pain at times. I'll usually just spring for Hammer Mountain/Frenzy.
you can't mixup a blind man, and you can't out think a brick ~skisonic
Street fighting is all about analysis, prediction, and reaction. That's it.

Re: Grappling Vs Combo Making
#28  February 26, 2008, 03:11:38 am
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I was awesome with 97 O yashiro, he had the kind of gameplay I can only point a couple of characters with, the kind that is deadly on the hands of the AI but takes really good skill and is chalenging in the hands of a human player.
Jedah is like that too.
Re: Grappling Vs Combo Making
#29  February 26, 2008, 03:11:44 pm
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Re: Grappling Vs Combo Making
#30  February 28, 2008, 04:15:35 am
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What do you guys think is the worst grappler ever?
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Re: Grappling Vs Combo Making
#31  February 28, 2008, 04:42:07 am
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Zangief immediately comes to mind. But I'm sure there are worse grapplers in other people's heads.
you can't mixup a blind man, and you can't out think a brick ~skisonic
Street fighting is all about analysis, prediction, and reaction. That's it.

Re: Grappling Vs Combo Making
#32  February 28, 2008, 06:00:16 am
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Re: Grappling Vs Combo Making
#33  February 28, 2008, 10:52:49 am
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I just can't use Zangief properly...nor Sodom nor R.Mika...Actually, I suck with grapplers in SFA (and MvC) :/ But I rock with Zangief in SF2 and SFEX.
Re: Grappling Vs Combo Making
#34  February 28, 2008, 11:36:44 am
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Re: Grappling Vs Combo Making
#35  February 28, 2008, 11:46:06 am
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Re: Grappling Vs Combo Making
#36  February 28, 2008, 07:23:09 pm
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Clark :steal: was a beast in KOF 98. Un-Sto-ppa-ble.

Then they watered him down when they changed his outfit in 99.
Re: Grappling Vs Combo Making
#37  February 28, 2008, 07:26:31 pm
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worsat grappler is tizoc. zangief does not suck at all

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Re: Grappling Vs Combo Making
#38  February 28, 2008, 09:25:39 pm
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iunno, something about Zangief's grappling style just seems so bland to me. Meh. Alex makes up for it in his design and other moves, and Hugo makes up for it with his HUGE chest.
you can't mixup a blind man, and you can't out think a brick ~skisonic
Street fighting is all about analysis, prediction, and reaction. That's it.

Re: Grappling Vs Combo Making
#39  February 28, 2008, 10:23:34 pm
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Re: Grappling Vs Combo Making
#40  February 28, 2008, 11:36:58 pm
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dunno, zangief is pretty cool.
Re: Grappling Vs Combo Making
#41  February 29, 2008, 12:03:19 am
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Re: Grappling Vs Combo Making
#42  February 29, 2008, 12:05:59 am
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Against my friend I have actually been doing pretty well with grapplers.

I hated them until SF3 when I noticed how awesome Hugo was. Started going back and learning more.

Me and my friend normally play Alpha 3. My favorite grapplers in it are Zangief, THawk, and Sodom.

I don't do well with Birdie, I really dislike that grappler. He seemed more effective in SFA1. I don't like RMika either. I seem to win quite a bit with her though, but I still hate it when she gets picked.

I have no preference really if I know how to play the game. A new game I won't go straight for the grapplers, that's for sure.

I play using random select cause I never know who to pick and generally don't mind, I hate it when a game has no random select. >:(

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Re: Grappling Vs Combo Making
#43  February 29, 2008, 12:14:28 am
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the character that got me into grappling was kof97 blue mary, she was a real bitch in that game.

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Re: Grappling Vs Combo Making
#44  February 29, 2008, 01:43:26 am
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Re: Grappling Vs Combo Making
#45  February 29, 2008, 01:51:25 am
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Re: Grappling Vs Combo Making
#46  February 29, 2008, 03:07:03 am
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I must say that I'm much more of a combo based player.  Give me a fast, weak character and I can spend a load of time poking away at someone's life bar.  Having said that, I'm very interested in learning how to play with grapplers considering that I'm pretty bad with them.  Guy in SFZ3 is the perfect example.  I would LOVE to learn to play with him better, but for the most part, I stick with Cammy.  But in MVC2 or and of the VS-styled games, Cammy and other quick players, such as Hiryu, dominate as my players most of the time.
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Re: Grappling Vs Combo Making
#47  February 29, 2008, 03:15:44 am
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Re: Grappling Vs Combo Making
#48  February 29, 2008, 03:41:35 am
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hmm i take back in kof ix. but 03 garou tizoc is bad. adn your saying t hawk is the worst :o

like cars in reverse ,  ya better back up
Re: Grappling Vs Combo Making
#49  February 29, 2008, 04:15:32 am
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Clark Steel and Goro Diamon = The most annoying team to fight if you are a striker.
Re: Grappling Vs Combo Making
#50  February 29, 2008, 07:17:26 am
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Re: Grappling Vs Combo Making
#51  February 29, 2008, 08:03:49 am
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Re: Grappling Vs Combo Making
#52  February 29, 2008, 08:50:43 am
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T.Hawk was recently elevated to B-Tier for super turbo thanks to negative edge 360 and such. That places him leaps and bounds ahead of Zangief =p

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Re: Grappling Vs Combo Making
#53  February 29, 2008, 09:25:29 am
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you can't mixup a blind man, and you can't out think a brick ~skisonic
Street fighting is all about analysis, prediction, and reaction. That's it.

Re: Grappling Vs Combo Making
#54  February 29, 2008, 10:02:56 am
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Re: Grappling Vs Combo Making
#55  February 29, 2008, 11:30:05 am
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Ha, i cheated in that challenge. Set up a command for the move. 1 button for 2hcb+BO made it rather simple.

Thats a good way of getting through the geese challenge, and the Shen woo projectile reflect one too.

Wish i could use clark, but i can't. The ability to use his moves properly goes away if i'm playing a human.

Admittably, it's possible to win with him using jump kick>foot sweep cos noone expects the attacking clark of doom. Only works once though.


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Re: Grappling Vs Combo Making
#56  February 29, 2008, 06:20:12 pm
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clark is about jumping a against ground oponents, since it overprioritizes most gorund attacks.
Re: Grappling Vs Combo Making
#57  February 29, 2008, 09:04:39 pm
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Re: Grappling Vs Combo Making
#58  March 01, 2008, 12:16:35 am
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like cars in reverse ,  ya better back up
Re: Grappling Vs Combo Making
#59  March 01, 2008, 12:25:23 am
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I have no idea what sort of professional tier THawk falls under. I just like playing as him. I only have 1 person to play against as well. He wins with THawk a lot and so do I.

I used to utterly hate THawk and any grapplers. But As I said, Hugo brought me over and now I enjoy the different way that they play.

I just now started getting my friend into SNK games. I bought him Neo Geo Battle Coliseum (wishes you could turn the timer off), so I hope I start getting into the snk games more.

1 player just isn't very fun for me like it was when I was younger.
Re: Grappling Vs Combo Making
#60  March 01, 2008, 12:37:36 am
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of course 1 player isnt fun, you need to go out and come to toruneys :D or some group of buddies haha. super turbo doesnt really have a legit tier( well it does) but its always argued since theres counter characters and such so each one has a good playability. t hawk has unbelievable tick throws but he is really hard to use.
whoa neo geo battle coliseum game is gay i dont like it. well casuals its  fun i take that back. but mr big and kim teams dominate that game.

like cars in reverse ,  ya better back up
Re: Grappling Vs Combo Making
#61  March 01, 2008, 12:43:40 am
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I would have to go out of state for tournaments =p

And finding 2d fighting game friends isn't easy in this age. Maybe I'll walk around asking random people if they play KOF XD

I live in a very small town in Arkansas of all places. Nothing ever happens here cept meth busts.
Re: Grappling Vs Combo Making
#62  March 01, 2008, 01:15:29 am
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ohhhh disamn that sucks hardbody. let me think fortsmith i think has/had a small arcade.
THERE was the pine bluff arcade but someone told me it shut down, the last time i went there was in 05 ive been there around 5 or 6 times.  but i do know there are mvc2 players in the capitol. sorry thats off the top of my head but yea it is pretty dead. haha. you could try oklahoma i think. :D

like cars in reverse ,  ya better back up
Re: Grappling Vs Combo Making
#63  March 01, 2008, 01:24:28 am
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Yeah, I could play some MVC2 around here... *cringes teeth  :-\

With gas prices my best option would be online. But I never wanted to become an online player either. Figured I may become addicted and I don't need more addictions =p
Re: Grappling Vs Combo Making
#64  March 01, 2008, 01:35:15 am
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COME OVER TO THE DARK SIDE!!!
you can't mixup a blind man, and you can't out think a brick ~skisonic
Street fighting is all about analysis, prediction, and reaction. That's it.

Re: Grappling Vs Combo Making
#65  March 01, 2008, 02:00:36 am
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Addiction will only occur if you start playing random people. If you insist on playing people you at least partially know you'll just get the fun of playing. Mostly because in order to have a game, you'll need to find a second party and they aren't always available.

Nevertheless, online is fun, and cheaper than feeding in money.

p2p is good and cuts down on about 95% of the lag.


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Re: Grappling Vs Combo Making
#66  March 01, 2008, 02:09:49 am
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What I don't like about playing grapplers is that whenever you do, your opponent tries extra hard not to get thrown.  :'(

that's actually an advantage if you know the other guy is scared of throws. i hit a lot of guys using clark's jump d because they always jump thinking i am going for a throw.

Re: Grappling Vs Combo Making
#67  March 01, 2008, 02:13:31 am
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standing d or jumping throw ?
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Re: Grappling Vs Combo Making
#68  March 01, 2008, 02:39:01 am
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Yeah, I could play some MVC2 around here... *cringes teeth  :-\

With gas prices my best option would be online. But I never wanted to become an online player either. Figured I may become addicted and I don't need more addictions =p
my dude. mvc2 players from arkansa sucked so bad it wasnt even funny. well since third strike is online you could try your grapplers in that. in fact i could give you alex advice since i main him. though it aint easy. idk your chances of winning in mvc2 is high since you May become their best player :P dont go to the DARK SIDE!!!!!.

like cars in reverse ,  ya better back up
Re: Grappling Vs Combo Making
#69  March 02, 2008, 02:57:22 am
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Re: Grappling Vs Combo Making
#70  March 02, 2008, 03:50:57 am
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