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reputation system? (Read 73657 times)

Started by Valodim, April 06, 2008, 05:56:28 pm
reputation system?
#1  April 06, 2008, 05:56:28 pm
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YES

I know we had the discussion numerous times before. Bringing it up again for... uh, no reason in particular. I just stumbled upon this smf mod, "Advanced Reputation System".

It's quite different from karma:
- reputation given depends on own reputation
- reputation is always associated with a post or thread
- reputation is logged, so a member can see what got him the "+1"
- reputation can be commented, possibly even mandatorily commented

http://www.simplemachines.org/community/index.php?topic=230676.0

I think this is quite interesting. Especially considering feedback in releases and help on the help forums, and since it's always "per post" it can be restricted to forums where it makes sense to give. There is also no negative reputation, you either do good and get rep for it, or you don't.
Last Edit: April 06, 2008, 06:00:52 pm by Valodim
Re: reputation system?
#2  April 07, 2008, 02:21:32 am
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I don't mind the idea that much. But is there any method at all of lowering it (mod/admin based)? There are people who would take it too seriously when their rep went up and would possibly go looking for methods of getting it raised by convincing other users to do it. Then act superior cos their rep was good. We all know it happens, but need to think of these things as a possible source of problems.

Workarounds or things to prevent this should be implemented.


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Re: reputation system?
#3  April 07, 2008, 11:53:50 pm
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restrict permission to give rep to n+ posts, or something. privileges may also be revoked when abused

specific rep entries can be deleted. they are associated with the posts/threads given for and possibly have a comment, so it's simple to see if it made sense or not

I'm not sure if there's a time-based limit on how often a user can give rep, but that's easy to implement if it's not already in there. Which I think it is.

also, we could make stars reputation-dependent, instead of post-dependent. if it works out about okay, that would actually make stars about quality, not quantity. we don't even have to show any numeric reputation value that way.
Last Edit: April 08, 2008, 01:12:34 am by Valodim
Re: reputation system?
#4  April 09, 2008, 02:31:19 am
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oh it would also force me to update to smf 2.0 :P

more opinions please
Re: reputation system?
#5  April 09, 2008, 02:59:32 am
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like i said in #mugen i'm neutral on this. it's worth a shot, and the way you described it i don't see it doing any harm
Re: reputation system?
#6  April 09, 2008, 05:10:41 am
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It's "meh". We got rid of visible post counts to avoid what this would achieve, only taking people seriously if their e-peen is over 9k (:D).
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Re: reputation system?
#7  April 09, 2008, 05:25:50 am
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It's "meh". We got rid of visible post counts to avoid what this would achieve, only taking people seriously if their e-peen is over 9k (:D).

yeah... but if things work as Val is saying, the only ones that would be taken serious would be the ones worth of it.

never used karma on any boards, so i can't compare.

for me, its worth a shot. if it don't work, we get back to how thing are now, give them the "fight club treatment".
Re: reputation system?
#8  April 09, 2008, 05:34:09 am
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val add the posticons and filter to the release subforums because i couldn't really figure it out ;D
Re: reputation system?
#9  April 09, 2008, 12:52:28 pm
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Yes, we must get the filters in there already. Every day without them adds more topics we will have to categorize ourselves afterwards.


It's "meh". We got rid of visible post counts to avoid what this would achieve, only taking people seriously if their e-peen is over 9k (:D).

Yes, but if those people exist, then currently they value only the number of stars. See? What can we even do about them?

Important in my eyes is this: postcount counts posts, deluded aspirants to greatness might want to post more. This mod tracks value, deluded aspirants to greatness might want to post better.

Yay for SMF 2.0!

     Make it so. :smile: Errrr...
"Several times now, Achamian thought he had glimpsed golden haloes about Kellhus's hands. He found himself envying those, such as Proyas, who claimed to see them all the time."
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Last Edit: April 09, 2008, 12:58:15 pm by Sepp
Re: reputation system?
#10  April 09, 2008, 03:18:57 pm
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Isnt this the system that infantry uses?
You have no honor!
#11  April 09, 2008, 04:51:28 pm
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Infantry uses the built-in karma system of SMF. It works like this, you'll see why we don't like it:

Each user has karma points (honor at Infantry) displayed in his profile. They can either be shown as one total number or separately as two numbers: the amount of negative and positive points you have recieved. These points can be given to you for a post; all there is to it is basically a +1 and -1 (medic and snipe at Infantry) button next to each post you make, which others (with permission) can press.

Hitting them changes the number and reloads the page. That's all. +1 and -1 buttons remain, but you are blocked from influencing that user's karma again for one hour (or another time span).

This is flawed and almost completely useless except for fun; the only effect anybody can see from the karma system in use is karma points in each user's profile. There is nothing else. You don't know who gave you plus or minus points for which post or why, and it does not help forum experience so that you might be able to see the ratings a post got next to the post, for example. It's always just anonymous I LOVE THIS USER or DIE DIE DIE. This was the origin of "+1" posts: because you had no other visible way to inform the world of which user you were giving ups or downs for which post, you would often hit KARMA UP button and then additionally make your action known by also rewarding a good post with an otherwise empty "+1, thumbs-up!" message in a thread.

I think---since the buttons don't go away---you can even just wait one hour and then give the same user negative karma again for the same post. Administrators can set karma points directly in this system, that's how you get people with over 18,000. What you also get, just from normal use, is profiles like his, who's been there for a long time and currently has total honor of 1. That's data, not information. Doesn't say anything. It could mean: this user has gotten 200 minus and 201 plus points, or 2 and 3 respectively. Perhaps the number was set by an admin. Even if you could know which is the case, that still doesn't really help. Maybe he posts sensible all the time but has half a dozen enemies who snipe him every hour, maybe it's the other way round, or perhaps it's balanced between friends and foes. And so on.

Certainly it could be employed with a little less focus on fun, and we could try to encourage more serious use of it... but the system itself is too flawed for that, I say. It's good either with an emphasis on fun like Infantry does it, or not at all. Of course some of these issues, especially "Okay, but what, really, is the actual value of such a number? What can we tell from it?" remain with the mod Val linked to---but the system sounds about as good as it could get from the sois great! I love itare [opposite of hardware] side.
"Several times now, Achamian thought he had glimpsed golden haloes about Kellhus's hands. He found himself envying those, such as Proyas, who claimed to see them all the time."
--R. Scott Bakker
The Thousandfold Thought (2006)
Last Edit: April 09, 2008, 05:08:03 pm by Sepp
Re: reputation system?
#12  April 09, 2008, 11:04:26 pm
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Re: reputation system?
#13  April 09, 2008, 11:05:29 pm
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I would like to point out an immense failing in titiln's censor of F_T_W as it causes the highly common word on this forum soft_ware to stuff up. And make Sepp's last sentence look odd  ;P


In M.U.G.E.N there is no magic button

They say a little knowledge is a dangerous thing, but it's not one half so bad as a lot of ignorance.
Re: reputation system?
#14  April 09, 2008, 11:07:51 pm
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Eh, I see it all as a sort of Soft report section. "I dont like you but you havent done anything technically wrong." .
I find it uneeded, go for it if you want to have fun, but I dont see much of a point to it.
Re: reputation system?
#15  April 09, 2008, 11:12:34 pm
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...what? Either I didn't understand or you completely missed the point.
Last Edit: April 09, 2008, 11:15:43 pm by Valodim
Re: reputation system?
#16  April 09, 2008, 11:18:20 pm
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Think about it this way, most people would use the karmic system to either praise someone they like "oh always great feedback as usual!" or to berate someone they dislike dont know "Useless feedback/ taste/ideas"
We have seen tons of reports where the people reporting do it for the most vague of notions, the same would be done with a karma system, the change would be that they would feel less unjustified to judge someone else.
Re: reputation system?
#17  April 09, 2008, 11:28:14 pm
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But with that system we could at least see it happening. And worst case, if that's really what most people will do (have some faith!) and if it doesn't add anything, it can be deactivated again. Hm. This is future either way. First everything else here needs to be upgraded to forum version 2.0 before we try another addition. = /


wait I don't get it, was sepp's vote a yes or a no? :thinking:

Yes to the suggested reputation mod, no to the inbuilt karma system I explain to Iced.
"Several times now, Achamian thought he had glimpsed golden haloes about Kellhus's hands. He found himself envying those, such as Proyas, who claimed to see them all the time."
--R. Scott Bakker
The Thousandfold Thought (2006)
Re: reputation system?
#18  April 09, 2008, 11:32:56 pm
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Think about it this way, most people would use the karmic system to either praise someone they like "oh always great feedback as usual!"

yes.

Quote
or to berate someone they dislike dont know "Useless feedback/ taste/ideas"

can't give negative rep.
Re: reputation system?
#19  April 09, 2008, 11:42:19 pm
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vReportBoard Mod
vPostBoxResize Mod      trivial
vMulticolor-Stars Mod      done
vMoveTopic Notify by PM   trivial
vMessageIcon Filters
Googlebot & Spiders Mod      not sure
GeSHiSmf         trivial
Spoiler Tag         trivial
cbi            trivial
SMFChess         ugh.
Re: reputation system?
#20  April 15, 2008, 02:59:32 am
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You always have the option to write negative comments, but I think that would be few and far between.  It's much more useful to have a comment than the only-for-play karma systems out there.


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