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Character - Stage interaction  (Read 84850 times)

Started by VIB, April 11, 2004, 01:17:59 pm
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VIB

Re:Character - Stage interaction
#21  April 28, 2004, 05:17:34 am
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I suspect it might occasionally cause some problems with some characters, due to the characters not being where they expect to be for one tick
yea, I thought about this, but I consider that much like a bug on the character, I think you shouldnt move the screen in your intro pose because that could also affect the enemy intro pose. So I don't mind much about this one, but it is an issue indeed.

or due to one of the characters freezing the stage as soon as the round starts, but probably not often.
I am not sure what you mean with this one, how can the character freeze the stage but not the enemy? If a pause controller is used than the enemy's variables would freeze too, so it shouldn't be problem. I don't get what your saying ^^

It might be good to also make the characters check whether their opponents and partners are compatible with the stage
if you take a look inside my example, you'll see that I used isHomeTeam to avoid conflict when simulating the crashing net sound. This would be particularlly perfect for arcade where you usually set one stage for each character, if a character is set for it's home stage, like: ryu,stages/ryustage.def

If anyone volunteers to modify any of their characters to be compatible, I'll go ahead and make patches for my Charlotte, Gen-An, Cammy, and/or Shrine stages (if I can find the time).  But I'd rather wait for confirmation that at least one character will use this before I bother.
Sure, please do that, I want to make my characters (old ones and upcomming ones) compatible with the most stages I can. I also intend to update all of my own stages with this method, and a brief information on how to use each one.
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Re:Character - Stage interaction
#22  May 03, 2004, 03:47:20 am
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So I think it would be perfect to make it per game, with 10,000 IDs each game. Now we need to choose each ID, I think 10,000 to 19,999 could be ssf2 and 10,001 is my Vega stage =)

I'll update the 1st post... ok, start posting your stage IDs here so I can update the list =) should do fine for now..
It would be wise to use IDs in the 100,000+ range(outside of MCM anim range) so that we could use anims that mirror their stage IDs.  This would be used to detect player compatibility with stages.


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Last Edit: May 03, 2004, 03:48:19 am by Messatsu
Re:Character - Stage interaction
#23  May 05, 2004, 07:26:08 pm
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I do prefer the way that Chon Wang done in his Subzero interacting with my Sub's Cave.

VIB

Re:Character - Stage interaction
#24  May 05, 2004, 08:35:35 pm
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It would be wise to use IDs in the 100,000+ range(outside of MCM anim range) so that we could use anims that mirror their stage IDs.  This would be used to detect player compatibility with stages.
But wouldn't that possibly conflict with other methods of using anims to tell char type? To avoid this kind of conflict it would be necessary to limit the range of stage numbers, which doesn't sounds like a good idea.

Quote
I do prefer the way that Chon Wang done in his Subzero interacting with my Sub's Cave.
That makes no sense, ChonWang used the arcade match number to detect the stage. It only works on full games and even so it doesn't allow you to change the order of the stages in story mode, you need to used fixed stages. There is no advantage on it.
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Re:Character - Stage interaction
#25  May 05, 2004, 11:05:17 pm
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To avoid this kind of conflict it would be necessary to limit the range of stage numbers, which doesn't sounds like a good idea.
Why not?  This way the numbers coincide.

Quote
But wouldn't that possibly conflict with other methods of using anims to tell char type?
Who uses anims over 99,999?  If nobody does, we are okay.


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Last Edit: May 05, 2004, 11:07:00 pm by Messatsu
Re:Character - Stage interaction
#26  May 06, 2004, 01:19:56 am
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Some suggestions:

- Creators can include in their stages a standard fightfx.sff with the sprites that could include graphic effects like water, bombs, etcetera...

- Someone could gather all the new sprites added in multiple stages and compile them into a new standard fightfx.sff, which can be freely distributed as Elecbyte states in their license agreement term #2.

- Neogeo games have a unique ID, which can be used to classify NG games. For example, KOF97 has an ID=232, so we can use the ID of 232xxxx for every stage from that game. There are 10000 possible variations, which gives enough room for alternate versions

- Non neogeo games need to define their IDs, but I suggest that we can set a standard using the rom name (parent) and replacing letters by numbers (as in a dial phone), in a way as Loona suggested. For example, SSF2 (romname ssf2.zip) can be converted to ID= 7732xxxx (S=7, F=3, 2=2)

Just my 2 cents.
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Re:Character - Stage interaction
#27  May 06, 2004, 01:37:25 am
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Some suggestions:

- Creators can include in their stages a standard fightfx.sff with the sprites that could include graphic effects like water, bombs, etcetera...

Might as well just provide the PCX files, the text file to feed to SPRmaker and a fightfx.air or whatever's the name of the file that usually defines those animations - that'd make it simpler to update your own fightfx if you're using several different stages that take advantage of this...

Quote
- Neogeo games have a unique ID, which can be used to classify NG games. For example, KOF97 has an ID=232, so we can use the ID of 232xxxx for every stage from that game. There are 10000 possible variations, which gives enough room for alternate versions

I think this also applies to GBA games... if it applied to other consoles like Megadrive/Genesis it'd be excellent, as there could be a number code for the console, one for the game and one for the stage... But then again, we'd still need a considerable number range for original and edited stages...

Quote
- Non neogeo games need to define their IDs, but I suggest that we can set a standard using the rom name (parent) and replacing letters by numbers (as in a dial phone), in a way as Loona suggested. For example, SSF2 (romname ssf2.zip) can be converted to ID= 7732xxxx (S=7, F=3, 2=2)

The dial method seems unreliable - Final Fight and Double Dragon would have the same code, for example (D=3=F)...
Re:Character - Stage interaction
#28  May 06, 2004, 02:07:02 am
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Some suggestions:

- Creators can include in their stages a standard fightfx.sff with the sprites that could include graphic effects like water, bombs, etcetera...

Might as well just provide the PCX files, the text file to feed to SPRmaker and a fightfx.air or whatever's the name of the file that usually defines those animations - that'd make it simpler to update your own fightfx if you're using several different stages that take advantage of this...

Yes, that could be better.

Quote
Quote
- Neogeo games have a unique ID, which can be used to classify NG games. For example, KOF97 has an ID=232, so we can use the ID of 232xxxx for every stage from that game. There are 10000 possible variations, which gives enough room for alternate versions

I think this also applies to GBA games... if it applied to other consoles like Megadrive/Genesis it'd be excellent, as there could be a number code for the console, one for the game and one for the stage... But then again, we'd still need a considerable number range for original and edited stages...

There are enough room for original and edited stages. Moreover, I believe it's better to group the stages by games and not by console (stages from SF2 for SNES will share the same ID prefix than the Genesis and CPS1 versions) Plus, how many games can you count that would require stage interaction??

Quote
Quote
- Non neogeo games need to define their IDs, but I suggest that we can set a standard using the rom name (parent) and replacing letters by numbers (as in a dial phone), in a way as Loona suggested. For example, SSF2 (romname ssf2.zip) can be converted to ID= 7732xxxx (S=7, F=3, 2=2)

The dial method seems unreliable - Final Fight and Double Dragon would have the same code, for example (D=3=F)...

Unreliable? It's a first come, first served basis. The first guy who makes an interactive stage from X game, sets its ID, according to a number standard. If you make a stage from another game and happens to have the same ID as another existing game, then you will have to add a "1" at the end of the ID suffix to differentiate it from the other game. I choose 1 because there's no letters assigned to number 1 in a phone. For example:

Creator A makes a stage from game A and sets the ID to 4567xxxx
Creator B makes after a stage from game B but has the same ID as another previous game -> the ID becomes 4567 + 1 + xxxx -> 45671xxxx
Obviously, you need to keep a database with all interactive stages that are being converted to mugen, so you don't pick an already existing ID

Btw, Double Dragon is ddragon=3372466 while Final Fight is ffight=334448. You can use the MAME naming standard for arcade games.  

To sum up, it doesn't matter what IDs you choose for a game, as long as it doesn't match with another already existing. My suggestions are to keep a standard, but if there are exceptions that fail, then they are welcome to have their own ID. And last but not least, I don't expect to have more than 100 interactive stages, because actually few stages from available games include these features
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Last Edit: May 06, 2004, 02:13:08 am by XGargoyle

VIB

Re:Character - Stage interaction
#29  May 06, 2004, 07:09:05 am
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Why not?  This way the numbers coincide.
[...]
Who uses anims over 99,999?  If nobody does, we are okay.
No one may use an anim over 99,999 today, but what if someday someone want to use one of them to tell char type as in KFM's thread?

New games will come, new ideas may came for using more stage IDs. What will you do with the stage limit then? Im not saying it is not possible. It's just that this should be considered before deciding anything.

and use StrikeThrough when correcting me instead of red, since it's easier to see ^^

- Neogeo games have a unique ID, which can be used to classify NG games. For example, KOF97 has an ID=232, so we can use the ID of 232xxxx for every stage from that game. There are 10000 possible variations, which gives enough room for alternate versions
I think this also applies to GBA games... if it applied to other consoles like Megadrive/Genesis it'd be excellent, as there could be a number code for the console, one for the game and one for the stage... But then again, we'd still need a considerable number range for original and edited stages...
this is great news.. where those the numbers came from? How can someone quickly check that?

- Non neogeo games need to define their IDs, but I suggest that we can set a standard using the rom name (parent) and replacing letters by numbers (as in a dial phone), in a way as Loona suggested. For example, SSF2 (romname ssf2.zip) can be converted to ID= 7732xxxx (S=7, F=3, 2=2)
Isn't there any other way of using the mame game list? Like ordering the games by date?
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Re:Character - Stage interaction
#30  May 06, 2004, 03:26:57 pm
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No one may use an anim over 99,999 today, but what if someday someone want to use one of them to tell char type as in KFM's thread?

New games will come, new ideas may came for using more stage IDs. What will you do with the stage limit then? Im not saying it is not possible. It's just that this should be considered before deciding anything.
If someone wants to choose numbers that already exist for something else, that is their fault.  We really can't do anything to prevent it.


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Re:Character - Stage interaction
#31  May 06, 2004, 03:38:29 pm
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Isn't there any other way of using the mame game list? Like ordering the games by date?

date???  :o  Care to develop why do you want to group games by date??? It's pretty useless imo
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Re:Character - Stage interaction
#32  May 06, 2004, 03:44:59 pm
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Release dates are unique to the game in most cases. :huh:


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Re:Character - Stage interaction
#33  May 07, 2004, 09:13:05 am
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And they already use numbers...
Re:Character - Stage interaction
#34  May 07, 2004, 10:21:12 am
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this sounds interesting has anyone tried this yet.
Re:Character - Stage interaction
#35  May 07, 2004, 10:45:00 am
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If you had read the thread you'd see that VIB's Spain stage has something like this implemented - I'm also planning something using this principle for a could of stages I'm working on.
Re:Character - Stage interaction
#36  May 07, 2004, 05:35:37 pm
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i have just tried it out i must say its pretty impresive.
just by having theses little bit of coding you can do the stuff on the "what can be done" list.
Re:Character - Stage interaction
#37  May 07, 2004, 06:17:20 pm
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Any screenshots, christopher?  I can host it if necessary. :wink: :cool:


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Last Edit: May 07, 2004, 06:29:32 pm by 8055
Re:Character - Stage interaction
#38  May 10, 2004, 05:26:40 pm
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no, none at all ill try next time.
have you tried the stage yet 8055.
Re:Character - Stage interaction
#39  May 10, 2004, 05:42:41 pm
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I was going to try it if someone had PROOF that it works.  I was hoping you had some F12 screenshots.


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VIB

Re:Character - Stage interaction
#40  May 11, 2004, 09:47:51 am
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Isn't there any other way of using the mame game list? Like ordering the games by date?

date???  :o  Care to develop why do you want to group games by date??? It's pretty useless imo
Like messatsu said, it would be unique. For example, if you have this games:
- SSF2
- SFA
- SFA2
- SFA3
ordered by date they would be 0001, 0002, 0003 and 0004 respectivelly. But then what if a new games come? Say SF3? Then its 0005. If can get the mame game listing and easily order it by date, we would have an effiecient way of having unique game IDs.
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