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ShugenDo Developer Blog (Read 87739 times)

Started by SakirSoft, May 13, 2009, 06:01:00 pm
ShugenDo Developer Blog
#1  May 13, 2009, 06:01:00 pm
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sakirsoft said:
Hi i wanted to start my first post about ShugenDo development.

So you can read about the current development progress of ShugenDo.
I also want to announce that the next beta will be to the
end of this month or the begin of the next month.

I am still working on the fixing as usual but i am also working on other parts
to increase the overall progress of ShugenDo.
Also i am promise a PSP version of ShugenDo. And i want to make my promise true.

Lets begin with the PSP version. I began to work on it. I had to setup my development environment. Btw thanks to http://ps2dev.org/
for their hard and good work with the psp sdk ;)

I was able to compile a first binary of ShugenDo for the PSP. And ShugenDo also runs on the PSP.  So you will ask what are you waiting for ?
I have to write a PSP specific renderer for ShugenDo. Some of you noticed that i abandoned the Software renderer of ShugenDo.
The reason for it was manly couse of performance and complexity issues. So the PSP version will utilize the Hardware accelerated power of the PSP.
This means that ShugenDo will run pretty smooth on the PSP. But there is on problem which i encountered with the SFF file format of mugen.
Its pretty old and not well suited for todays hardware.  For that reason i will create a new file format for the PSP and the PC version.
The new file format for images will be a container like the SFF but will suit better for todays hardware.
This will mean better loading times and less memory consumption.

The SFF format is not very optimized and takes a lot of memory in you main ram.
A SFF file get about 3 times the size in memory of the file size. Currently i have a file format which can hold 32Bit images with a less memory consumption
as standard SFF file. So you have better looking images with less memory consumption.


I will also rewrite the menu code of ShugenDo because i am not satisfied with it. This means that the current screen pack format will be also rethinked.
Currently thats it for my post about the development process.



Here you can find ShugenDo
www.sakirsoft.com
Re: ShugenDo Developer Blog
#2  May 13, 2009, 06:32:41 pm
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Wow 32bit image format ? O_O cool and less memory consumption now that's wicked  keep up to good work  Sakir
Re: ShugenDo Developer Blog
#3  May 14, 2009, 02:53:28 am
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Oh joy! From the sounds of it, a PSP version could be just a few weeks away!<3

But I have a question, Sakir. Since you will be basically abandoning the .sff file, what will happen to current MUGEN characters and stages? Will there be a converter of some sort to change .sff's to whatever file format you will be making?
Re: ShugenDo Developer Blog
#4  May 14, 2009, 06:49:12 pm
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Oh joy! From the sounds of it, a PSP version could be just a few weeks away!<3

But I have a question, Sakir. Since you will be basically abandoning the .sff file, what will happen to current MUGEN characters and stages? Will there be a converter of some sort to change .sff's to whatever file format you will be making?

Of course i will provide a converter for SFF files. I only abandoning it for the PSP version couse its not an optimal format. The Pc version will support the sff file format for legacy support.

Here you can find ShugenDo
www.sakirsoft.com
Re: ShugenDo Developer Blog
#5  May 14, 2009, 09:54:06 pm
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Ah, good!

Keep us posted then, Sakir! I can't wait to see what comes of this!  ;D
Re: ShugenDo Developer Blog
#6  May 19, 2009, 08:05:56 am
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Yes, it seems you are well on the right path, Sakir.

SofiyaCat, the developer of InfinityCat Mugen seemed to have also noticed a similar problem with .SFF file mounting to his engine port for the PSP.

I recall He/She used a .SFF to .BIN converter back then...although, well...the project got dumped pretty early on. :-\

I wish you the best of luck with the upcoming updates. I can't wait to make my own Shugendo Game on the PSP...This is indeed exciting news!!!
"We need other people in order to create the circumstances for the learning that we are here to generate" RIP Adam Yauch aka MCA
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Re: ShugenDo Developer Blog
#7  May 19, 2009, 11:38:32 am
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I do not think the sff file takes so much memory and space.
They are in fact on of the images  file format that takes less memory to load.And they very quicky to load them.
Thats why electbyte choose the pcx format instead of the jpg,png,bitmap ect.

the sff  file format is just  pcx files ( index images , 8 bits).

It takes about about 10kbs to load a 128,128 pixel image.
The only problem with the index images like pcx 8 bits is that they are not supported on new video cards.
But they can emulated using pixel shaders. But the pixel shaders effects doest not work the same way on all the supported videos.

I am not sured if you can use pixel shaders on psp undergroung dev kit

Correct me if i am wrong
Last Edit: May 19, 2009, 11:51:14 am by becoolnike
Re: ShugenDo Developer Blog
#8  May 19, 2009, 12:26:14 pm
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pcx uses dated algorithms for compression and Elecbyte used it because its free of licensing issues.


Many people risk their lives everyday by having Mugen.
Re: ShugenDo Developer Blog
#9  May 19, 2009, 02:51:11 pm
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Yes, pcx uses compression algorithm called run lenght plus index table.

pcx take so little memory,  and they are real fast to load because they their colors are in a index tables what we call a palette.



For example, if you convert a image pcx to jpeg or bmp the final image end being 2 to 5 times its orignal size.

Re: ShugenDo Developer Blog
#10  May 19, 2009, 03:52:50 pm
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becoolnike, read again. What Sakir means to do by creating a new file format to substitute .SFF should in the end display...
sakirsoft said:
better loading times and less memory consumption.

Don't tell me you've never noticed how laggy mugen can get when accessing characters with large .SFF files after the VS screen. Hopefully with the new format he wishes to implement this "loading time" will be minimal.

Also...
sakirsoft said:
Currently i have a file format which can hold 32Bit images with a less memory consumption
as standard SFF file. So you have better looking images with less memory consumption.

Damn! If that doesn't sound good, I don't know what does. I say implement the new format, and once he perfects a converter we could just run a batch file on all the characters we wish to convert. It's a beautiful thing.
"We need other people in order to create the circumstances for the learning that we are here to generate" RIP Adam Yauch aka MCA
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Re: ShugenDo Developer Blog
#11  May 19, 2009, 07:18:52 pm
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Btw i am not talking about the memsize of the images on harddist space.
As you mentioned. Pcx is a compressed format. You could also use Png or what ever.

The PC can't work with the compressed image and have to decompress it in main ram.
This leads to a bigger mem usage for your ram. Take a look at winmugen in your task manager and you can estimate how much
it take.
So it doesn't matter for the realtime memory( your ram ) how the images is compressed. Because it will be the uncompressed size in your ram when loaded.

If you want to see how much your sff will take in mugen or ShugenDo .You can extracting the pcx files from your SFF and convert them to 8bit bmp files.
And then look of how much it will take


A example of evilryu form Reu.
Sff size 4.8 mb.

Real size in ram 17.7MB.

Thats quite alot for one char.
 
Here you can find ShugenDo
www.sakirsoft.com
Re: ShugenDo Developer Blog
#12  May 21, 2009, 11:17:50 pm
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It depends on how you code it, some libraries support run lenght compressed sprites so they are actually optimla, or you could load the compressed sprite and only decompress (since run lenght is pretty simple) the sprite that's going to be shown.
Re: ShugenDo Developer Blog
#13  May 22, 2009, 02:20:55 pm
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On the fly run length decoding is not a option because of performance problems.
In the past i tryed it out it has poor performance.
Here you can find ShugenDo
www.sakirsoft.com
Re: ShugenDo Developer Blog
#14  May 29, 2009, 08:06:04 pm
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Would it be too much to ask when you plan on making the PSP version public?  :)
Re: ShugenDo Developer Blog
#15  May 29, 2009, 11:03:57 pm
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Here you can find ShugenDo
www.sakirsoft.com
Re: ShugenDo Developer Blog
#16  May 30, 2009, 07:58:46 am
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 :sugoi: Well, that's a better answer than I expected...!
Re: ShugenDo Developer Blog
#17  May 30, 2009, 08:02:06 am
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Re: ShugenDo Developer Blog
#18  May 31, 2009, 07:48:23 pm
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Here you can find ShugenDo
www.sakirsoft.com
Re: ShugenDo Developer Blog
#19  May 31, 2009, 08:41:05 pm
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Sounds like it's almost ready then. I can't wait, I hope you fix the bugs soon!

EDIT: Hey Sakir, I have a quick question I forgot to ask: does ShugenDo support hi-res characters, stages, and lifebars?
Last Edit: June 01, 2009, 03:32:50 am by NickyP
Re: ShugenDo Developer Blog
#20  June 02, 2009, 06:45:16 pm
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Here you can find ShugenDo
www.sakirsoft.com
Re: ShugenDo Developer Blog
#21  June 05, 2009, 09:22:22 pm
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Not to be pushy, but what's the status on the PSP build, Sakir? It's been nearly a week since you made the announcement.  :-X
Re: ShugenDo Developer Blog
#22  June 05, 2009, 09:53:58 pm
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Chill out, in extensive and long development so many things can go wrong or not like it's planned. Delay should be expected. Only one thing is 100% sure in life: Death.

I mean Sakir will explain proably delay when he feels like it. I prefer this way, so I'm sure I get quality product, not rushed, unifinished thing, released just because to keep promise.
"If our lives are indeed the sum total of the choices we've made, then we cannot change who we are. But with every new choice we're given, we can change who we're going to be." The Outer Limits S04E04

"If knowledge is power and power corrupts... how will human kind ever survive?" The Outer Limits S04E16
Re: ShugenDo Developer Blog
#23  June 06, 2009, 02:21:08 am
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Chill out, in extensive and long development so many things can go wrong or not like it's planned. Delay should be expected. Only one thing is 100% sure in life: Death.

I mean Sakir will explain proably delay when he feels like it. I prefer this way, so I'm sure I get quality product, not rushed, unifinished thing, released just because to keep promise.
+1.

Let's just give him all the time he needs. There's enough of pressure on his shoulders already. We've been waiting, and we can wait some more. Some little delay won't hurt us.
Re: ShugenDo Developer Blog
#24  June 06, 2009, 02:41:15 am
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In all fairness, I asked what the status was because we hadn't heard from him about it in a little while. I didn't say: "WTF sakir y u don releaz psp shugendo u suck n take slow gtfo  >:( >:( >:("

Sheesh.
Re: ShugenDo Developer Blog
#25  June 06, 2009, 06:10:25 am
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In all fairness, I asked what the status was because we hadn't heard from him about it in a little while. I didn't say: "WTF sakir y u don releaz psp shugendo u suck n take slow gtfo  >:( >:( >:("

Sheesh.
|
|
V
Not to be pushy, but what's the status on the PSP build, Sakir? It's been nearly a week since you made the announcement.  :-X
This very part just gave you away.

He can make announcements and still delay stuff without announcing it, you know?

But anyway, you paraphrased your previous statement, so we're clear here.

Let's just wait. It will happen. We will have that PSP build soon.
Re: ShugenDo Developer Blog
#26  June 06, 2009, 12:36:38 pm
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Not to be pushy, but what's the status on the PSP build, Sakir? It's been nearly a week since you made the announcement.  :-X

In all fairness, I asked what the status was because we hadn't heard from him about it in a little while. I didn't say: "WTF sakir y u don releaz psp shugendo u suck n take slow gtfo  >:( >:( >:("

Sheesh.

Right guys lets keep cool please.
He just asked frankly a question and thats okay.

I also wanted to post some status report of ShugenDo and the PSP build.
Since the last release i did a lot of fix as usual. Thanks again here for the help of the beta testers.
All those fixes will be in the change log file of the next release.

So i announced a psp release around the end of may + some days. Good that i added some extrax days for me ;)
So what the status of the PSP version?

I was able to port the base code of ShugenDo to the PSP. That means i have a working version on the PSP.
But currently you do not see anything because the renderer of the psp version is not done yet.
I am writing a optimized rendered for the psp. I came to the conclusion that the SFF format is not very suitable for the PSP
and wrote a new file format with a sff to the new file format converter.

So whats wrong with the SFF format ? It uses to much memory in realtime. The pcx file in the sff have to pe unpacked to a raw hardware format.
The new fileformat decrease memory usage alot.

The PSP owns 32MB ram but about 24MB are useable for a game. So i have to be careful with the memusage.
And need a better format with less memory usage.
The converter is already done and i am about to write a module to render the new file format on the PSP.
As soon as the render is showing some thing i am almost done with the psp port.

But i also did a important change to the coordination system of ShugenDo.
Mugen uses two different coord system for the main fight engine and the menu.

You can see it on the origin of the coord system. 0,0 mean upper left corner in menus.
But in fight it means the middle of the screen.

The change allows me also wide screen support for ShugenDo.
Here a example of it








Here you can find ShugenDo
www.sakirsoft.com
Re: ShugenDo Developer Blog
#27  June 06, 2009, 08:29:02 pm
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Great work on the PSP version Sakir. Your effort is amazing.

And the Widescreen version looks great!
Re: ShugenDo Developer Blog
#28  June 07, 2009, 04:38:33 am
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Well that's sounds like something else. It's good to hear things are coming along well. I wanted to test out some Basara X characters with the PC version of beta build 309, but for some reason after I installed everything it told me it couldn't run.  ??? Would someone else like to test those chars?

And on a last side note, thanks Sakir for sticking up for me.
Re: ShugenDo Developer Blog
#29  June 09, 2009, 11:59:26 pm
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Sakir,

To know that you will implement widescreen compatibility on the PSP port sounds very refreshing. Only God knows how much I hate what Capcom has done with the sprites from Darkstalkers and Street Fighter Alpha 3 Max...even though I can't help but play them again and again...It's good to know Shugendo will not suffer from the same graphical stretching.

A word of advise though...I see you have a huge black bar on the top of the screen consisting of a Height of 16 pixels. Why don't you center the graphics and have two bars consisting of 8 pixels each on the top and bottom...then you would have true widescreen. I got this idea from playing a BOR mod today called "A Tale of Vengeance", since this is also how it was implemented for the BOR engine....also, this way the graphics will be centered and this way you can barely notice the black bars while playing on the PSP.



Looks and sounds good so far...Can't wait!  8)
"We need other people in order to create the circumstances for the learning that we are here to generate" RIP Adam Yauch aka MCA
www.instagram.com/tanooki_ninja

Ashurex

Re: ShugenDo Developer Blog
#30  June 10, 2009, 01:30:44 am
sweet! btw, you know that MugenPlus can hold 320 of color right? Will ShugenDo have 720, so that we may make BlazBlue characters?
Re: ShugenDo Developer Blog
#31  June 10, 2009, 09:32:32 am
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You can downscale any sprites.


Many people risk their lives everyday by having Mugen.

Ashurex

Re: ShugenDo Developer Blog
#32  June 10, 2009, 06:55:58 pm
even if I were to downscale BlazBlue characters to the size of Guilty Gear characters, they still have 720 bits of color. Thats why I want to know if ShugenDo will have 720 bit compatibility.
Re: ShugenDo Developer Blog
#33  June 10, 2009, 09:04:13 pm
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voiai@e#r$n3???

What are you talking about?  BlazBlue likely doesn't have sprites over 64 colors.  Mugen's default resolutions are in a 4:3 ratio with 240 and 480 pixels vertical.  IIRC, ShugenDo defaults to 480 and can go anywhere upward.  The increase in overall size for BlazBlue sprites really doesn't seem to matter and downscaling wouldn't be noticed in that case.


Many people risk their lives everyday by having Mugen.
Re: ShugenDo Developer Blog
#34  June 10, 2009, 09:08:46 pm
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My shitty mugen stuff:
Re: ShugenDo Developer Blog
#35  June 11, 2009, 12:17:32 am
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voiai@e#r$n3???

What are you talking about?  BlazBlue likely doesn't have sprites over 64 colors.  Mugen's default resolutions are in a 4:3 ratio with 240 and 480 pixels vertical.  IIRC, ShugenDo defaults to 480 and can go anywhere upward.  The increase in overall size for BlazBlue sprites really doesn't seem to matter and downscaling wouldn't be noticed in that case.
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Re: ShugenDo Developer Blog
#36  June 11, 2009, 03:55:07 am
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What's all the fuss about psp port.To be honest I can care less about a psp port, I rather see new features from the suggestions before any kind of port. BEcause when I think about it, right now it's still the same old standard mugen when it comes to features as of now. What's the point in me going through the trouble playing it on psp. Ports should come last. But, it's saki project so much respect in what you decides to do.

But thats just me.
Re: ShugenDo Developer Blog
#37  June 11, 2009, 03:57:11 am
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I'm more about making characters work correctly in this god-foresaken bug-ridden program. :S

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My MUGEN shit:
MvC2 Tron Bonne, MvC Kim Kaphwan, Barns (Destruction Desire),
and Burai Yamamoto (Arranged)
Re: ShugenDo Developer Blog
#38  June 11, 2009, 05:13:36 am
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What's all the fuss about psp port.

 :-\...I assume you do not own a PSP.

What's the point in me going through the trouble playing it on psp.

Well, just to point out the most important feature here, dev-wise...Once he gets it running like it should, he could test the engine for bugs while away from his PC. Then every next beta build would be released on both consoles at the same time for testing.
"We need other people in order to create the circumstances for the learning that we are here to generate" RIP Adam Yauch aka MCA
www.instagram.com/tanooki_ninja
Re: ShugenDo Developer Blog
#39  June 11, 2009, 10:13:14 am
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well, I have read about Psp port...
but I want to know about the Xbox port... I remember you showed a video a lot of time ago of Shugendo on xbox...
 ???

what's the status?
any progres on it?

I'm interested cause I play mugen on my xbox, and probably will play Shugendo there too.

            Zorf Giudecca

Ashurex

Re: ShugenDo Developer Blog
#40  June 11, 2009, 04:05:36 pm
well, I have read about Psp port...
but I want to know about the Xbox port... I remember you showed a video a lot of time ago of Shugendo on xbox...
 ???

what's the status?
any progres on it?

I'm interested cause I play mugen on my xbox, and probably will play Shugendo there too.


Hmmm, I think I should try that. I wonder if its possible to play on the PS2.
Re: ShugenDo Developer Blog
#41  June 11, 2009, 04:35:31 pm
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What's all the fuss about PC port.To be honest I can care less about a PC port, I rather see new features from the suggestions before any kind of port. BEcause when I think about it, right now it's still the same old standard mugen when it comes to features as of now. What's the point in me going through the trouble playing it on PC. Ports should come last. But, it's saki project so much respect in what you decides to do.

But thats just me.
Re: ShugenDo Developer Blog
#42  June 11, 2009, 04:41:30 pm
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PC port?...
Re: ShugenDo Developer Blog
#43  June 11, 2009, 07:21:19 pm
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Let's do not forget that, before making port  to something Sakir need bought it. I can't imagine that he could buy PS2, PS3, XBOX, WII etc just only to make ports.

I can be wrong, but he choosed to make PSP port so soon, to test how it would be work on different machine than PC. I asked about ports and he have plans to make them but this is far future. He can correct me if I'm wrong, but as far I know, some ports will be done. When ? No idea, but don't expect it very soon especially, because it's still WIP so overall compatibility, stability and funcionality will be improved.

I rather would like to see new features, or increased compatibility with Mugen stuff. Ports will be useless if engine will have bugs. That remind's me the fact, Bug Section on MFG wasn't used for long time. I'm wonder why...
"If our lives are indeed the sum total of the choices we've made, then we cannot change who we are. But with every new choice we're given, we can change who we're going to be." The Outer Limits S04E04

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Re: ShugenDo Developer Blog
#44  June 11, 2009, 07:43:15 pm
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That's why I said he should not waste time coding a pc port.
Re: ShugenDo Developer Blog
#45  June 11, 2009, 08:30:02 pm
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Hmmm, I think I should try that. I wonder if its possible to play on the PS2.
It's possible on anything.  Problem is you run into hardware limitations the older the hardware is.

Quote
I'm more about making characters work correctly in this god-foresaken bug-ridden program.
Mugen or ShugenDo?  Mugen's code base does not have enough to properly emulate fighting games.


Many people risk their lives everyday by having Mugen.

Ashurex

Re: ShugenDo Developer Blog
#46  June 11, 2009, 10:20:03 pm
honestly, I play mugen on the computer. I own a PSP so Im not rejecting the idea of ShugenDo on the PSP.
Re: ShugenDo Developer Blog
#47  June 11, 2009, 10:56:40 pm
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What's all the fuss about PC port.To be honest I can care less about a PC port, I rather see new features from the suggestions before any kind of port. BEcause when I think about it, right now it's still the same old standard mugen when it comes to features as of now. What's the point in me going through the trouble playing it on PC. Ports should come last. But, it's saki project so much respect in what you decides to do.

But thats just me.

The most important part of the engine is stability and right working.
ShugenDo has alot of new feature to offer. I post some vids about them on Youtube in the past.
But those are experimentations and not yet ready for the public yet. No one will care about a feature which is not working right.
Or about a new feature with a bugged engine.

In the last time i worked hard on bug fixing the core of ShugenDo which include the mugen compatibility.
Its important to have a bug free core engine before you can introduce new stuff. And thanks to beta testers like Jarek i was able to improve ShugenDo alot.
Just look at the changelog from beta 162 to beta 309 and you can see how much get fixed.

Currently most bugs are very small and comsetic stuff right now. And alot of bugs are coused by faulty cns files which can be easy fixed.
I am quite happy with how the compatibilty increased. You will see it in the next release.
Btw one of the big feature/change is the corrd system. ShugenDo will get rid off the static screen coords of Mugen.
Where the char is allways between -160 and 160.


I saw the question "Why a PSP port?". Its to show the possibility and the reality of it. Do not worry the PSP port is not that
time consuming becouse my code base is easy to port.
I am also working on the Net code of ShugenDo and have send some stuff to my beta testers.


Btw Jarek mentioned a good point. Some of you do not like the bugs in ShugenDo. Yeah me too.
You can help in testing your creations. The author will know the best how it works and how it has to work in ShugenDo.
Most time i have to understand what the code wants to do.  It would go faster if the author could tell me where to look at.

I will continue looking and posting to this thread.
Here you can find ShugenDo
www.sakirsoft.com

Ashurex

Re: ShugenDo Developer Blog
#48  June 11, 2009, 11:46:07 pm
alright, I guess I could test it. besides, I haven't played MUGEN in 3 months.
Re: ShugenDo Developer Blog
#49  June 12, 2009, 12:44:36 am
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Quote
I'm more about making characters work correctly in this god-foresaken bug-ridden program.
Mugen or ShugenDo?  Mugen's code base does not have enough to properly emulate fighting games.

I'm talking about making characters work as they do in MUGEN, which XNAMugen is currently doing much better than ShugenDo and is even less active.

But I know I just did a baaaaaaaaaaad ting [sic] so let's not talk about clone wars.

Point is characters (especially mine) are really broken in ShugenDo right now.

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My MUGEN shit:
MvC2 Tron Bonne, MvC Kim Kaphwan, Barns (Destruction Desire),
and Burai Yamamoto (Arranged)
Re: ShugenDo Developer Blog
#50  June 12, 2009, 02:56:02 am
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I'm talking about making characters work as they do in MUGEN, which XNAMugen is currently doing much better than ShugenDo and is even less active.

Even if this is true so what ? From what I've seen on Guild XNAMugen get MUCH more bug reports  and overall support than ShugenDo. I didn't complain before, but since you mention it... You can't expect from creator of engine who is busy enough to test all chars and fix every bug in every character. If you post reports at least about your chars, it will be get fixed eventually. All bugs (who was fixable ATM) are now fixed, so you can't say that Sakir do not care about compatibility. Still it wouldn't be possible without our support, because without reports there will be less bugfixing = less mugen compatibility.

And last thing. XNAMugen is a mugen CLONE. ShugenDo emulate mugen formats, but have much bigger ambitions than emulate every code that is in Mugen.

Point is characters (especially mine) are really broken in ShugenDo right now.


Ok, point taken. Now post all bugs in your characters and they will be fixed hopefully (if they are because ShugenDo flaws).
"If our lives are indeed the sum total of the choices we've made, then we cannot change who we are. But with every new choice we're given, we can change who we're going to be." The Outer Limits S04E04

"If knowledge is power and power corrupts... how will human kind ever survive?" The Outer Limits S04E16
Re: ShugenDo Developer Blog
#51  June 12, 2009, 06:31:52 am
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Can't. Pixel shader 0.0 and my dad doesn't want me on his computer. >:P:

                  ~*The Last Quincy*~         ~Sig by [TempesT]
My MUGEN shit:
MvC2 Tron Bonne, MvC Kim Kaphwan, Barns (Destruction Desire),
and Burai Yamamoto (Arranged)
Re: ShugenDo Developer Blog
#52  June 12, 2009, 11:49:11 am
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Quote
I'm more about making characters work correctly in this god-foresaken bug-ridden program.
Mugen or ShugenDo?  Mugen's code base does not have enough to properly emulate fighting games.

I'm talking about making characters work as they do in MUGEN, which XNAMugen is currently doing much better than ShugenDo and is even less active.

But I know I just did a baaaaaaaaaaad ting [sic] so let's not talk about clone wars.

Point is characters (especially mine) are really broken in ShugenDo right now.

Comparing ShugenDo and XnaMugen is not easy to do and i would avoid it.
Because they have a different char set for testing. You will notice that some chars are working better in xnaMugen and
some other in ShugenDo.
The same chars will not even load on the one engine and will work great at the other engine.

That enough for comprarism.
Btw why do you say that ShugenDo is not good. Did you test it?

Here you can find ShugenDo
www.sakirsoft.com
Re: ShugenDo Developer Blog
#53  June 12, 2009, 01:57:58 pm
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I tested my characters with the last build, and my characters were hardly even playable.

I don't know about the current build, as I can't test it ATM.

                  ~*The Last Quincy*~         ~Sig by [TempesT]
My MUGEN shit:
MvC2 Tron Bonne, MvC Kim Kaphwan, Barns (Destruction Desire),
and Burai Yamamoto (Arranged)
Re: ShugenDo Developer Blog
#54  June 12, 2009, 08:23:03 pm
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I tested my characters with the last build, and my characters were hardly even playable.

I don't know about the current build, as I can't test it ATM.

Until now i did not test one of your creations. Ok right they were unplayable.
After an houer of searching i fixed some bugs and your tronBonne is playable in ShugenDo now.
The rootdist trigger was not working like in mugen.
As you can see fixes do not take long as soon as i have infos.

I am also working on a shader less version of ShugenDo but i really recommend a at least Shader 2.0 card.

Btw how does you ai activation code works? I see that some where you set var(58) = 1. Currently the AI of tronBonne is activation some times


Here you can find ShugenDo
www.sakirsoft.com
Last Edit: June 12, 2009, 08:26:20 pm by SakirSoft

Ashurex

Re: ShugenDo Developer Blog
#55  June 13, 2009, 02:56:49 am
Are you saying that we should create characters specifically for ShugenDo? If so, I wouldnt mind making a simple character specially for ShugenDo.
Re: ShugenDo Developer Blog
#56  June 13, 2009, 03:01:03 am
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I think you need to stop posting in the engine forum section, lad. :kid:


Many people risk their lives everyday by having Mugen.

Ashurex

Re: ShugenDo Developer Blog
#57  June 13, 2009, 03:12:54 am
I think you need to stop posting in the engine forum section, lad. :kid:
Ouch. I mean, i may not know what coding or whats needed to create a 2D fighting engine but you can help me. Dont leave me in the dark. Teach me.
Re: ShugenDo Developer Blog
#58  June 13, 2009, 11:01:10 am
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I tested my characters with the last build, and my characters were hardly even playable.

I don't know about the current build, as I can't test it ATM.

Until now i did not test one of your creations. Ok right they were unplayable.
After an houer of searching i fixed some bugs and your tronBonne is playable in ShugenDo now.
The rootdist trigger was not working like in mugen.
As you can see fixes do not take long as soon as i have infos.

I am also working on a shader less version of ShugenDo but i really recommend a at least Shader 2.0 card.

Btw how does you ai activation code works? I see that some where you set var(58) = 1. Currently the AI of tronBonne is activation some times

I figured out and ai is not randomly activating anymore. You tronBonne is playable now. Not 100% but playable.
Here you can find ShugenDo
www.sakirsoft.com
Re: ShugenDo Developer Blog
#59  June 13, 2009, 12:12:56 pm
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Good to hear. Think you could try out Burai and Barns as well, as they were big troublemakers, too?

                  ~*The Last Quincy*~         ~Sig by [TempesT]
My MUGEN shit:
MvC2 Tron Bonne, MvC Kim Kaphwan, Barns (Destruction Desire),
and Burai Yamamoto (Arranged)
Re: ShugenDo Developer Blog
#60  June 13, 2009, 04:15:36 pm
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to be honest saki, what's the point in trying to get this old mugen characters to work with shugendo. Just my opinion but since shugendo is going to support sprites like png and hi res stages/chars, and have features like zoom in and out,and wide screen. Why not just request everyone to make new characters and new stages. For god sake,shugendo is a new engine,what's the point in people trying to get their recycled characters/stages to work?  That way you don't have to waste a year trying to get old outdated characters to work,especially when noone truly going to care about the old chars  after seeing the the uptodate characters made specifically for shugendo.

To sum it up, I think people should make characters/stages specifically for shugendo. Hell, the majority of the mugen characters & stages are low res and glitchy & broken anyways. Either way it goes people trying to slide by with a simple conversion isn't going to cut it. That's just plain laziness.


Good job saki with the psp port. But I have to agree with some of the fellas when they said psp/ netplay should come last after most of the suggestions are done. Ports, and especially netplay should come last after engine is complete enough , that it will be worth buying a psp to play shugendo.

Good job saki, you're the best.  :sugoi:
Last Edit: June 13, 2009, 05:06:00 pm by JaseSRK
Re: ShugenDo Developer Blog
#61  June 13, 2009, 07:01:54 pm
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It would do a community split to abandon compatibility.  Arguably, ShugenDo might lose all support if goes in that direction since it isn't open source yet.  By being able to emulate Mugen, you know have a baseline of features supported as well.  Having standardized (original Mugen) things always works out the best.

I would also agree, but it's too late into the project to abandon Mugen support.


Many people risk their lives everyday by having Mugen.
Re: ShugenDo Developer Blog
#62  June 13, 2009, 07:36:35 pm
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actually that would be pretty bad for shugendo, as it already has relatively poor creator suppor, so demanding characters to be made specifically for it would just make matters worse.
Re: ShugenDo Developer Blog
#63  June 13, 2009, 10:23:23 pm
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to be honest saki, what's the point in trying to get this old mugen characters to work with shugendo. Just my opinion but since shugendo is going to support sprites like png and hi res stages/chars, and have features like zoom in and out,and wide screen. Why not just request everyone to make new characters and new stages. For god sake,shugendo is a new engine,what's the point in people trying to get their recycled characters/stages to work?  That way you don't have to waste a year trying to get old outdated characters to work,especially when noone truly going to care about the old chars  after seeing the the uptodate characters made specifically for shugendo.

To sum it up, I think people should make characters/stages specifically for shugendo. Hell, the majority of the mugen characters & stages are low res and glitchy & broken anyways. Either way it goes people trying to slide by with a simple conversion isn't going to cut it. That's just plain laziness.


Good job saki with the psp port. But I have to agree with some of the fellas when they said psp/ netplay should come last after most of the suggestions are done. Ports, and especially netplay should come last after engine is complete enough , that it will be worth buying a psp to play shugendo.

Good job saki, you're the best.  :sugoi:


I see your point. Do not worry i will not support faulty coded chars but i will help the authors to fix them. Fixing them will mean they
will have clean cns code. Which can be read by mugen as well. Also i will not support mugen bugs. But char testing helps me also to find bugs.
Some time some triggers are not working 100% as they should and i noticed that because a char is not doing what it should do.

Good news is that fixing chars is easy in the most cases. But i need the support of authors.
I am still supporting mugen creations. But i will not support dos mugen creation. Even winmugen has problems with it.

I hope that more authors will get interested and will help me with ShugenDo.
Here you can find ShugenDo
www.sakirsoft.com

Ashurex

Re: ShugenDo Developer Blog
#64  June 14, 2009, 12:01:55 am
I have a question for character creation. i mean, im working on my own personal Ryu character. Does the sprites of Ryu have to be pcx., bmp., or png. to go into ShugenDo? Should i use fighter factory to create a character for ShugenDo or do you have tools so that I may create it? Honesty, I would like to help you on this.
Re: ShugenDo Developer Blog
#65  June 16, 2009, 07:37:11 am
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I rather would like to see new features, or increased compatibility with Mugen stuff. Ports will be useless if engine will have bugs. That remind's me the fact, Bug Section on MFG wasn't used for long time. I'm wonder why...

I have to agree fully with this post. I must rather see things from the suggestion list, I highly dout half the community with be rocking shugendo on  PSP like everyone thinks, then again maybe saki is trying to test it on PSP to open up opportunities to other ports. But honestly, it will suck to have a year go by with PSP port standing in the way of things. I'm seriously surprise PSP,and online play are even in the works already when it should be the finishing touch ups on the engine after everything else.

Just my 2 cents
Last Edit: June 16, 2009, 07:40:42 am by JaseSRK
Re: ShugenDo Developer Blog
#66  June 16, 2009, 03:26:03 pm
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I rather would like to see new features, or increased compatibility with Mugen stuff. Ports will be useless if engine will have bugs. That remind's me the fact, Bug Section on MFG wasn't used for long time. I'm wonder why...

I have to agree fully with this post. I must rather see things from the suggestion list, I highly dout half the community with be rocking shugendo on  PSP like everyone thinks, then again maybe saki is trying to test it on PSP to open up opportunities to other ports. But honestly, it will suck to have a year go by with PSP port standing in the way of things. I'm seriously surprise PSP,and online play are even in the works already when it should be the finishing touch ups on the engine after everything else.

Just my 2 cents

Do not worry the PSP port is not standing in the development way of SugenDo. I am still working  on the main engine. Also the PSP port is only about the GFX code.
Everything else is the same. So when the render is complete i have just to compile the code base and voila you have a psp version.
Every fix and change will effect each port.
The PSP port will be just a proof of concept.

Some of you are underestimating the status of ShugenDo. The main engine is pretty stable and works with a good performance.
Also most of the triggers and controllers are working. Only just a few things are bugged and with your testings you can help me to find them
and fix them.

Try out the next beta release and you will see what i mean.


I have a question for character creation. i mean, im working on my own personal Ryu character. Does the sprites of Ryu have to be pcx., bmp., or png. to go into ShugenDo? Should i use fighter factory to create a character for ShugenDo or do you have tools so that I may create it? Honesty, I would like to help you on this.

Currently its just the same as in mugen. You can use FF. I appricate every help.
In the feature there will be some tools.


Here you can find ShugenDo
www.sakirsoft.com
Re: ShugenDo Developer Blog
#67  June 16, 2009, 04:32:31 pm
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I get what ya saying bro, thanks for getting back at me. Shugendo is a very worthy engine and I used to make mugen chars and throw them out the window because mugen was so shi**ty it was a waste of time. Reason why I'm honored to test engine. So don't worry I'm not throwing any shoes at ya, and being impatient, just trying to know whats up. So I'll know what to look for and to bring up in the future.

Btw, will it me some sort of program to activate and deactivate the features that's already in shugendo and the new features coming too shugendo? Or will it be edited in .txt.



Re: ShugenDo Developer Blog
#68  June 26, 2009, 09:23:04 pm
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I get what ya saying bro, thanks for getting back at me. Shugendo is a very worthy engine and I used to make mugen chars and throw them out the window because mugen was so shi**ty it was a waste of time. Reason why I'm honored to test engine. So don't worry I'm not throwing any shoes at ya, and being impatient, just trying to know whats up. So I'll know what to look for and to bring up in the future.

Btw, will it me some sort of program to activate and deactivate the features that's already in shugendo and the new features coming too shugendo? Or will it be edited in .txt.


The feature will be available in ShugenDo and its up to you to use them or not.
For example if you want to have zoom support in your stage use the zoom feature.
If you do not want it you simple do not use it.
Here you can find ShugenDo
www.sakirsoft.com
Re: ShugenDo Developer Blog
#69  July 21, 2009, 04:13:44 pm
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I see your point. Do not worry i will not support faulty coded chars but i will help the authors to fix them. Fixing them will mean they will have clean cns code. Which can be read by mugen as well. Also i will not support mugen bugs. But char testing helps me also to find bugs.
Some time some triggers are not working 100% as they should and i noticed that because a char is not doing what it should do.

Good news is that fixing chars is easy in the most cases. But i need the support of authors.
I am still supporting mugen creations. But i will not support dos mugen creation. Even winmugen has problems with it.

I hope that more authors will get interested and will help me with ShugenDo.

So you won't fix the assert special bugs such as music playback during the pause in "nomusic" flag and lifebar blink during the pause in "nobardisplay" flag?

Also, are those cheap authors/editors included in your support?
Re: ShugenDo Developer Blog
#70  July 23, 2009, 02:43:40 pm
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I wouldn't be so sure that the PSP version won't get any attention. On the contrary, from the very first post on this topic, this was a major story on a couple of major PSP news sites. That is how I came across the thread and I have, as I'm sure other have, been keeping up with the progress of this project. Once Sakir says that the project is halfway, or even nearly done, I'm sure it will be news all over again. The PSP homebrew scene is fairly large, once this is translated to the PSP it will be hosted and featured and many major sites and would have tens of thousands of downloads in just a couple of hours. Keep up the work Sakir! Can't wait to try this on both my PC and PSP!
Re: ShugenDo Developer Blog
#71  July 23, 2009, 07:05:38 pm
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I wouldn't be so sure that the PSP version won't get any attention. On the contrary, from the very first post on this topic, this was a major story on a couple of major PSP news sites. That is how I came across the thread and I have, as I'm sure other have, been keeping up with the progress of this project. Once Sakir says that the project is halfway, or even nearly done, I'm sure it will be news all over again. The PSP homebrew scene is fairly large, once this is translated to the PSP it will be hosted and featured and many major sites and would have tens of thousands of downloads in just a couple of hours. Keep up the work Sakir! Can't wait to try this on both my PC and PSP!

Psp will get attention but not like you think, . The tens and thousands of psp users you speak of will prefer shugendo on PC with tons of hard drive space,better surround sound, and able to plug in their arcade stick or joypad which most fighting game player prefer the most are more comfortable with. I think the idea of a psp port is just to open up more doors for shugendo. Pc users will always outnumber any console port. Also, people are not going to drop over 1 bill for a psp to play just a fighter when alot of players prefer fighters on anything other then hand held consoles.Psp is a nice concept but it won't be big as you think. Psp is more for casual gaming.

 Psp port is cool and all, but people are really waiting for ideas in the suggestion section.

Mvc2 player!
Last Edit: July 23, 2009, 07:38:55 pm by Jill Val
Re: ShugenDo Developer Blog
#72  July 23, 2009, 07:14:32 pm
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Jill Val you have some right but people expecting that things will be work all right without any help. I may wrong but I think that overall stability and performance is most important over implementing new features. Just look at InfinityCat case. I wish that more people would test chars and post bug reports in respective section.

Still it's progress because few guys posted some of it recently (previously it was just dead) which make Sakir very happy.

Sakir proably working on few suprises but from what I know he is focused on bug fixes so don't expect nothing new soon, at least nothing major. 
"If our lives are indeed the sum total of the choices we've made, then we cannot change who we are. But with every new choice we're given, we can change who we're going to be." The Outer Limits S04E04

"If knowledge is power and power corrupts... how will human kind ever survive?" The Outer Limits S04E16
Re: ShugenDo Developer Blog
#73  July 23, 2009, 08:09:20 pm
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Jill Val you have some right but people expecting that things will be work all right without any help. I may wrong but I think that overall stability and performance is most important over implementing new features. Just look at InfinityCat case. I wish that more people would test chars and post bug reports in respective section.

Still it's progress because few guys posted some of it recently (previously it was just dead) which make Sakir very happy.

Sakir proably working on few suprises but from what I know he is focused on bug fixes so don't expect nothing new soon, at least nothing major.  

True, but not trying to be mean to some of the creators but the reason why a large variety of characters are not tested is because their not worth testing because of bad art,bad coding, or it being another knock off, there like 500-1000 ryus most of the are the same but have different gimmicks. No need to for people to go through all 500-100 ryus,all 500 kens, all 500 magnetos. etc.....

The years I been playing mugen 90% of the time I see incomplete unfinished characters and most of the bugs are within the characters alone. Also, there is thousands of mugen characters, most people are going to take the time and download characters that's worth downloading. I understand you want mugen characters compatible, but I hate to say it but most the characters will come with bugs within the character alone that has poor coding, it's going to be up to the creator to update there character for shugendo.


 I tested alot of characters in the past and most the bugs came for the character not the engine. Note: most characters haven't had an update since dos.
Mvc2 player!
Last Edit: July 23, 2009, 08:12:46 pm by Jill Val
Re: ShugenDo Developer Blog
#74  July 23, 2009, 08:58:07 pm
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No offence but your post looks like lame excuse. There are buggy chars but mind that last Winmugen was buggy/beta/hacked version and it skipped some bugs. So people should test quality chars in ShugenDo, its simple as that, besides if you test char and came across on bug caused by engine, it should be fixed. So far I've seen thousand of sugesstions and only few bug reports, so excuse me if I sound bad. 
"If our lives are indeed the sum total of the choices we've made, then we cannot change who we are. But with every new choice we're given, we can change who we're going to be." The Outer Limits S04E04

"If knowledge is power and power corrupts... how will human kind ever survive?" The Outer Limits S04E16
Re: ShugenDo Developer Blog
#75  July 23, 2009, 09:35:50 pm
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No offence but your post looks like lame excuse. There are buggy chars but mind that last Winmugen was buggy/beta/hacked version and it skipped some bugs. So people should test quality chars in ShugenDo, its simple as that, besides if you test char and came across on bug caused by engine, it should be fixed. So far I've seen thousand of sugesstions and only few bug reports, so excuse me if I sound bad.  


Naw,


yo, I know where you coming from, it suppose to sound like a excuse but look past that. Yes, there should be bugs found, but I'm telling you theres no need find 500 clones of the same character. Testing quality chars are a smarter way to go. I dout people going to take the time to go through 100s of clones,and characters that look like they came from a nes or really bad art, which don't mean anything,but people going to take the time to look for something pleasing to the eye, or unfinished betas

btw, I'm testing characters mostly mvc style and sfa style.  :sugoi: :sugoi: :sugoi: Cause those characters I can relate too.
Mvc2 player!
Last Edit: July 23, 2009, 09:47:04 pm by Jill Val
Re: ShugenDo Developer Blog
#76  July 23, 2009, 09:57:35 pm
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Testing quality chars are a smarter way to go.

Look out what I wrote ealier:

So people should test quality chars in ShugenDo, its simple as that,

you sound like everyone will be test clones of same chars, but how you can be sure ? I'm always trying to choose chars with different gameplay, coding and features so much more stuff will be tested. It should be obvious for everyone that if chars is buggy in Mugen, it will be far more buggy in ShugenDo.

In simple words: You assuming worst possible scenario and that all people are stupid and do not know how to test things properly while you should be opposite and what its most important give example.

I don't like people who want stuff, suggest stuff, without contribution. Sakir said thousand times he is very open for reports, yet only few guys answered, that what piss me off the most. 

 
"If our lives are indeed the sum total of the choices we've made, then we cannot change who we are. But with every new choice we're given, we can change who we're going to be." The Outer Limits S04E04

"If knowledge is power and power corrupts... how will human kind ever survive?" The Outer Limits S04E16
Re: ShugenDo Developer Blog
#77  July 23, 2009, 10:53:04 pm
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Testing quality chars are a smarter way to go.

Look out what I wrote ealier:

So people should test quality chars in ShugenDo, its simple as that,

you sound like everyone will be test clones of same chars, but how you can be sure ? I'm always trying to choose chars with different gameplay, coding and features so much more stuff will be tested. It should be obvious for everyone that if chars is buggy in Mugen, it will be far more buggy in ShugenDo.

In simple words: You assuming worst possible scenario and that all people are stupid and do not know how to test things properly while you should be opposite and what its most important give example.

I don't like people who want stuff, suggest stuff, without contribution. Sakir said thousand times he is very open for reports, yet only few guys answered, that what piss me off the most.  

 
Yes I read what you said the first time, I was just pointing out that's what I was stating.

Dude, I never said no one is stupid, don't make me the bad guy. First of all, don't take my opinion in a bad light, and hell no I'm not calling anyone stupid, I was throwing the idea out there's plenty of characters that are being made by the new heads that's never made a character before and some characters some authors dropped from lack of interested and might not even be 30% complete.

That's all. I really have no idea while you are getting heated at me. I'm just trying to help geeeezz.


Also, before I leave I have an idea for the bug report section. How about making different sections for characters with different play styles. Like this, sfa style, mvc, cvs, kof, and Guilty gear. Reason why I say this is because different play styles comes with different gimmicks. That way if shugendo have problems reading super moves, supers jumps, or burst from guilty gear, it can easily be pointed out.

Now, I'm going to say it once again, I trying to help I'm testing and going to test more mvc and sfa characters. I will report when I can. I want to try to test stages also, and experiment with the animations, I heard it hi-resolution  so give me time on that because I'm still trying to learn fighter factory U, the program changed alot plus I busy with school. Give me time, and stop jumping to conclusions trying to kick people in the nuts, you are not getting any support like that.

Mvc2 player!
Last Edit: July 23, 2009, 11:13:29 pm by Jill Val
Re: ShugenDo Developer Blog
#78  July 23, 2009, 10:58:27 pm
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Psp will get attention but not like you think, . The tens and thousands of psp users you speak of will prefer shugendo on PC with tons of hard drive space,better surround sound, and able to plug in their arcade stick or joypad which most fighting game player prefer the most are more comfortable with. I think the idea of a psp port is just to open up more doors for shugendo. Pc users will always outnumber any console port. Also, people are not going to drop over 1 bill for a psp to play just a fighter when alot of players prefer fighters on anything other then hand held consoles.Psp is a nice concept but it won't be big as you think. Psp is more for casual gaming.

 Psp port is cool and all, but people are really waiting for ideas in the suggestion section.



Yea man, I totally agree. I only have 8 gigs on my PSP and on my laptop my Winmugen folder dominates my HDD. Still, people would like the ability to carry a couple of their favorite chars around with them. I didn't mean be giving off some illusion, I just wanted state that it will be big news for the PSP scene because there isn't anything happening right now and the last attempt at something like this we all know didn't work so well.

Anyways,  I'm going to get out of the discussions here because I am in WAY over my head, Sakir and you guys are the ones with all the knowledge... I just click download and then edit my def! Like I said, can't wait to try both out cause I'm still rockin Winmugen EVE!
Re: ShugenDo Developer Blog
#79  July 24, 2009, 02:12:50 am
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Also, before I leave I have an idea for the bug report section. How about making different sections for characters with different play styles. Like this, sfa style, mvc, cvs, kof, and Guilty gear. Reason why I say this is because different play styles comes with different gimmicks. That way if shugendo have problems reading super moves, supers jumps, or burst from guilty gear, it can easily be pointed out.

That's up to Sakir I guess.

Now, I'm going to say it once again, I trying to help I'm testing and going to test more mvc and sfa characters. I will report when I can. I want to try to test stages also, and experiment with the animations, I heard it hi-resolution  so give me time on that because I'm still trying to learn fighter factory U, the program changed alot plus I busy with school. Give me time, and stop jumping to conclusions trying to kick people in the nuts, you are not getting any support like that.

Nice you want to help. Not all my post was directed to you. I was more saying things as general... and if you feel offended in any way, I'm sorry.

One last thing I want to add. People just seems to be think, that you need specialist knowledge to test chars. If course if you can code, that's nice, but it's not necessary. I'm a random player, I have no clue about programming but I still can test it but compare char how it react in ShugenDo and Mugen.

So if you think you are too nooby for testcharacters or stages, think again, if you want help, post suggestion, bug report or donate money to Sakir. Every help will be apperciated. Thanks in advance.
"If our lives are indeed the sum total of the choices we've made, then we cannot change who we are. But with every new choice we're given, we can change who we're going to be." The Outer Limits S04E04

"If knowledge is power and power corrupts... how will human kind ever survive?" The Outer Limits S04E16
Re: ShugenDo Developer Blog
#80  July 24, 2009, 02:59:18 am
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When i read the last 4, i remember something that want to say

I can report bugs of characters when i have time (damn work  :-\); I posted in the bugtesting yesterday.

The only thing i need to know if is right post a report of a char that are not mine. I dont want have problems with creators because the links or something like that.

I really want to help to make this thing better. Because?, i really want a fresh engine that supports winmugen stuff and brings some new features. I think full backward compatibility (for winmugen)  is essential to make this.


My english is not too good, sorry.



Re: ShugenDo Developer Blog
#81  July 24, 2009, 02:16:45 pm
  • ****
    • Poland
When i read the last 4, i remember something that want to say

I can report bugs of characters when i have time (damn work  :-\); I posted in the bugtesting yesterday.

The only thing i need to know if is right post a report of a char that are not mine. I dont want have problems with creators because the links or something like that.

I really want to help to make this thing better. Because?, i really want a fresh engine that supports winmugen stuff and brings some new features. I think full backward compatibility (for winmugen)  is essential to make this.

My english is not too good, sorry.

Yes I noticed your report, Sakir proably too. You are one of those few, which I have mentioned in previous post. I have same opinion as yours about compatibility. Yes you can test any char you want from any creator, that's the whole point of testing. If you have problem with english and description of errors, maybe you should try make bug report videos, upload them somewhere (like Youtube) and post them instead of write text. I fully support your help, and I hope you post more soon. :D
"If our lives are indeed the sum total of the choices we've made, then we cannot change who we are. But with every new choice we're given, we can change who we're going to be." The Outer Limits S04E04

"If knowledge is power and power corrupts... how will human kind ever survive?" The Outer Limits S04E16
Re: ShugenDo Developer Blog
#82  July 25, 2009, 06:22:04 am
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Good!!!  :D , tomorrow i have free day  8) and i ll test some chars and i will make a new report. Thanks!!.