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Street Fighter - General Brainstorming topic - (Read 121662 times)

Started by FeLo_Llop, March 19, 2014, 12:13:32 am
Re: Street Fighter
#41  March 22, 2014, 03:48:27 am
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What about the EX Series? The Guard Break Mechanic is similar to a Focus Attack, but works different since you need a bar to perform it, plus it's not invincible.
Re: Street Fighter
#42  March 22, 2014, 04:07:45 am
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Alpha 3 also had this odd nuance where the further a projectile hit the less damage it did, but considering how pretty much no one liked that concept it probably isn't an important oversight. :P
Re: Street Fighter
#43  March 22, 2014, 05:18:51 am
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Similar to Darkstalkers proj durability/cancelling... maybe we can borrow that just to prove it can be done.
Re: Street Fighter
#44  March 22, 2014, 05:22:52 am
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What about the EX Series? The Guard Break Mechanic is similar to a Focus Attack, but works different since you need a bar to perform it, plus it's not invincible.
I didn't think about the ex series since it isn't legit. But as a street fighter tribute that will encompass the ex series it won't hurt to add it. Can you list the mechanics for that game? I'm least familiar with it.

Alpha 3 also had this odd nuance where the further a projectile hit the less damage it did, but considering how pretty much no one liked that concept it probably isn't an important oversight. :P

I hated that too! But yeah, kind of forgot about it.
Re: Street Fighter
#45  March 22, 2014, 06:54:13 am
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What do you mean by "it isn't legit"? :D

The mechanics are pretty simple by today standards:

Super cancel (IIRC you can even cancel super into super)
Guard Break (unblockable attack, costs one super bar)
Excel (Similar to custom combos in SFA2)
Everyone has a cinematic level 3 super

At least this is valid for EX 2. Never played EX 3.
Re: Street Fighter
#46  March 22, 2014, 09:14:32 am
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EX3 Had things called (I think) Momentary Combos, it allowed you to chain special moves into eachother (ex. A Hadouken into another Hadouken, or into a Shoryuken). It was not as broken as it was in SF:The Movie (Arcade version) (though THAT'S a game we should make an effort to avoid similarities with. The same goes for EX3 by the way, that game was a disaster. EX2+ all the way (though I am not a big fan of the overly goofyness of some of the Lv3 Meteor Combos some characters had, like Pullum's hypnotizing dancing one. Screw those).

And yeah I agree we should review all system mechanics listed, and choose the best/most interesting ones. There shouldn't be Isms, it's a lot more work and to me Isms feel like 'oh we couldn't decide/kill our darlings, so here, choose whatever you want, we got everything'.

Here's my suggestions, combining elements from nearly every series;

-NO dashing.
-dodging from CvS
-air/ground recovery after knockdown (though more cinematic then the standard 'flips and floats'.
-hold back for all close range attacks.
-SFA3 juggle system
-throw attempt/whiff animation, done by fwd/bwd+2P / 2K
-safe fall/throw escape/throw recovery).
-Guard meter/guard crush.
-Stun meter.
-!NEW!-throw counter (after succesfully performing a safe fall/throw escaqe, come right back into p2's face and counter).
-SFA's Zero Counter (costs 1 bar).
-SFA2's Custom Combo (costs 1 bar, like EX's Excel Combo. No 2 bar/3 bar version).
-SFEX's Guard Break (slow, unblockable attack costs 1 bar).
-EX Specials
-Multiple Super Combos for each character, but only 1 available ingame due to a selection (similar to SF3).


Re: Street Fighter
#47  March 22, 2014, 11:10:49 am
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I'm not sure about removing dash. The dash is a risk/reward kind of movement option (since you can't cancel it), its universal, but unique on its own for each char (examples: Bison's Kara Dash, Makoto Lenghty dash). And the backdash is some sort of defensive maneuver and we are removing an option against okizeme.

The rest seems fine to me.
Re: Street Fighter
#48  March 22, 2014, 11:17:40 am
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Dodging was only in cvs? If so I don't think it'd fit either. It's roots are from snk. Not a sf game
Re: Street Fighter
#49  March 22, 2014, 11:23:28 am
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How about a very basic SF II similar gameplay at the start and a big focus on balancing the characters out so it is not like the most mugen games where some characters are uber-strong?



Re: Street Fighter
#50  March 22, 2014, 11:31:19 am
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Because it'd be easier to tweak characters to be balanced in a universal system than it would to try and balance them with the intent to add more mechanics later.

Mechanics are what dictate how characters play. Not characters dictating the mechanics.
Re: Street Fighter
#51  March 22, 2014, 11:33:01 am
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I guess it all depends on what the gameplay direction would be, but having no dashing would feel really restrictive. Every game (even Street Fighter, the example of simplicity in fighting games) has now embraced dashing; it'd feel wrong to not have it.

As for Alpha counters, I believe CvS2 style would be best. One thing that a good number of people didn't like were that Alpha Counters were too strong across the entire Alpha series (since it discouraged block-string pressure). CvS2 took KoF's version (Emergency Attack) and made a nice compromise.
Re: Street Fighter
#52  March 22, 2014, 11:42:55 am
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It seems no one read this :P :

Spoiler, click to toggle visibilty

Putting -ISMs would be the best  IMHO, so any player could be confortable with any character and etc. I'm aware that it would be extra-coding and not always easy to do. I know...OR making a common system but changing executions. For example, Leap Attack could go from MP+MK to LP+LK, leaving Focus as it is in SF4. Blocking and SFZ's "parry/block" could be merged in one, since their properties are similar. Well, not that simlar. Blocking allows you to be able performing a nice combo from it while SFZ's "block" only allows you a hard hit.
- SFZ:
(yeah, Counter Attack)

Also, myyy O_O there are more replies than expcted and I'm short of time D:!! I'll reply later. Promise.

Also, for teasing...who's portrait gotta be next?


Juri and/or Decapre can't since they haven't been done in mugen(at least not THAT Decapre), so...who?

Hav a nice day!
I swear there was something cool here!!
Re: Street Fighter
#53  March 22, 2014, 11:49:52 am
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Last Edit: March 22, 2014, 12:03:56 pm by Alex Sinigaglia
Re: Street Fighter
#54  March 22, 2014, 11:50:19 am
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I don't feel like reading the full topic(I've very tired), but I suggest this before doing a full game:
-start with a small roster and work up to more later. You don't want to get half way and your project die near the home stretch due to the lack of drive
-don't add extra chains/target combos. SFXTekken sucked. Don't repeat the awkward feel
-don't water down the system. Keep it simple or it will end up being the broken unplayable mess of MX
-Once you have a system, stick with it. Do what you want to do and go from there. Don't add features to get people interested/happy.Release one or two characters to build hype
-Don't try to do the whole roster at the same time. Stick with one or two characters and finish them first. You'll get burned out otherwise
-Go for diversity for your roster. Don't add character x because someone asks. Possibly going for characters that fill "roles(grappler, shoto, charger, etc).

Etc. good luck

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http://www.Trinitymugen.net/Hosted/CFJ2/
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thanks again Vans/Jesuszilla!
Re: Street Fighter
#55  March 22, 2014, 12:04:12 pm
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Last Edit: March 22, 2014, 12:08:35 pm by Gladiacloud
Re: Street Fighter
#56  March 22, 2014, 01:01:34 pm
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I think he meant to ask which one of those in the image he is going to make next.
Re: Street Fighter
#57  March 22, 2014, 01:39:32 pm
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I know. I would like to see a Street Fighter EX character between these portraits ;)
Re: Street Fighter
#58  March 22, 2014, 07:01:14 pm
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As promised, personal replies:

- @Balthazar: it's very useful what yuo told about the leap attack. But, that could interfere with down focus' timing. That's why capcom changed it in 3rd strike. Some of the mechanic could be scrapped, if keeping a single gameplay. If we decide to go with -ISMs, they can be kept, so, anything would not interfere. Also, I would not speak about 10 characters/saga, since that would be a lot of workload. For the beta, I ould just say 2 per saga+a a boss. Also, some of you spoke about including SFEX characters. They're not part of SF canon, so they, in the begining would not have a place. UNLESS being "guest" characters. This could be like, in the begining, a dreammatch. We don't really need to put a background story, but that's always nice. I thought of something that could explain why there are dead characters and alternative characters(Killer Bee, E. Shotos, etc), but that better be kept in a box 'till the needed day.
Also, it seems we coincide about editing OR making a full sprite since its begining. It's always a bit confuse trying to see every wrong detail in a previous sprite.----Also, included your Throw Counter in the thing in the spoiler :P. That's UBBERlovely.

- @Renzo: That list of mechanics is pretty nice! :D! It resumes everything pretty good. Now that I think about it, are these options compatible? I mean, if you have bloocking, you can't have parry/etc. If deciding a single gameplay instead of an -ISM system, some characters can have X and others, Y. This could be used for, for exemple, differenciating the shotos: Ryu could use Blocking, while Ken a Parry. Also, your skills are pretty good. I still remember having fun with your pocket characters and Gen(even incomplete). Also, the Guard Break from SFEX sounds pretty interesting, specially for turtles that keep themselves in a corner and whatever :P

- @Just No Point: Making this as a way to learn coding, spriting, whatever, seems very good to me. I, personally, think that just few of the new generation mugeners are interested in creating, mostly because they can see this as very abstract(me, for example...I tried and tried learning coding but...I'm VERY clumsy for learning it T_T). I would suggest, however, making "basic standar" character coding, I mean, a template: shotos could share a common base, "charging type" with charging type, etc. This could make an easier way to do things and coding similar characters(ehem, ryu, ken. sakura, etc) would just need tweaks from the original coding. Substituting, for example, Blocking for Parry, or Just Defense. Or making an empty of this stuff and then just adding these features, leaving a line(in an etc colour, for those interested in coding) in the place where this should be coded. It's a more visual way to know WHERE to put things. Also, don't worry. I don't feel being a director or else. This could be a community project where everyone contributes, so we can complement each other, no one is superior to others. I can sprite, making sheets and/ or completing characters, also making quite CRAZY colour separations (exemple in the Spoiler) that could make someone looking as another character, or whatever.
Spoiler, click to toggle visibilty
About SF1 characters, what if...we center them into a combo like characters? Something a la Tekken, long combos that doesn't need to be very powerful, but not that weak. And, characters from this game(or -ISM) could have a limit of, for example, 5 projectles(hadokens), because that attack was so damm powerful in that game. I still remember and hate Ryu's and Sagat's...half of lifebar? Please...

- @Bad News GBK: That's awesome!! I have some ideas for intros//endings, but unfortunately, I'm not that good. I thouht making rough sketches, scan them and translating them into pixels(as the portraits I put)

- @Niitris: That's a good new :D! Which characters do you like? I'm preparing some CS ready for the project. Also, I agree with you about keeping the dash :D

- @ExShadow: Because of what Titiln said :P. There's quite a lot of awesome KoFs(Z, Wing, etc), but seems SF is a bit broken hearted of its fans :(

- @Caddie: my apologizes. You're right, I totally missed that jewel.

- @Alex Sinigaglia: Everyone's welcome :)

- Chazzanova: You're totally right. I missed the FF characters. It seems they're part of the real SF canon after all.

- @Iced: Oobrigado! I guess I know who's your choice ;)!

- Lost_Avenger: That was said :P

I guess it's everything. Huu!! I'm tired!!
 
I swear there was something cool here!!
Re: Street Fighter
#59  March 22, 2014, 07:04:24 pm
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Re: Street Fighter
#60  March 22, 2014, 07:14:08 pm
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@ FeLo

I am going to keep an eye on this thread. As soon as you or everyone else "in charge" have ideas about an intro and also endings for characters, i can share the info on dA and see if there are artists who are interested. And i bet there will be some.

Same counts for character select screen /vs screen portraits ..maybe background images for the screenpack as well.

ps: would love to see a SFEX character as well. ..maybe one of the "underdogs" like Darun or Jack?