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Buffering. (Read 7093 times)

Started by Memo, February 02, 2018, 09:52:14 pm
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Buffering.
#1  February 02, 2018, 09:52:14 pm
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Re: Buffering.
#2  February 03, 2018, 10:13:16 pm
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Re: Buffering.
#3  February 03, 2018, 10:27:58 pm
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Re: Buffering.
#4  February 03, 2018, 10:46:42 pm
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Im not gonna say its stupid but, all the years ive been playing mugen ive nevverr had a issue with commands. it may fix the doing the input backwards but i mean, is that really such a big issue? I honestly dont find a need for it.
Re: Buffering.
#5  February 03, 2018, 10:50:26 pm
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Im not gonna say its stupid but, all the years ive been playing mugen ive nevverr had a issue with commands. it may fix the doing the input backwards but i mean, is that really such a big issue? I honestly dont find a need for it.

Doing backward cmds is a HUGE issue if your wanting to play for real.

It fixes the bug but also makes all your cmd inputs feel alot smoother overall.
Re: Buffering.
#6  February 03, 2018, 10:55:09 pm
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i mean, i play my mugen against friends all the time and i play arcade all the time and its neevverr been a issue and how exactly does it make input smoother? its not like theres lag when u input commands on mugen everything comes out just fine and chars can combo just fine
Re: Buffering.
#7  February 03, 2018, 11:24:10 pm
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because explod buffering is fucking stupid
It was very brave of you to post this and then not immediately edit it to blank and delete it.

i mean, i play my mugen against friends all the time and i play arcade all the time and its neevverr been a issue and how exactly does it make input smoother? its not like theres lag when u input commands on mugen everything comes out just fine and chars can combo just fine
There are genuinely real issues with MUGEN's input system:
Is this really needed? What exactly is wrong with MUGEN's command system anyway?
MUGEN's default command system has many limitations: commands typically get broken whenever the characters switch sides, requiring players to start over any commands they've started to input if their character happens to switch sides with the opponent; there are also issues involving directional release commands, charge commands, and more. MUGEN also doesn't offer a ton of flexibility in defining commands: you can set a time limit for how long a player has to perform an overall command, but you can't define individual time limits for specific inputs/elements in those commands. With this new buffering system, all those problems are no more, all with zero input lag!
They might not be immediately noticeable for everyone, and most people will probably never feel all that bothered by them, but they do exist.
Re: Buffering.
#8  February 03, 2018, 11:37:40 pm
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i mean, i play my mugen against friends all the time and i play arcade all the time and its neevverr been a issue and how exactly does it make input smoother? its not like theres lag when u input commands on mugen everything comes out just fine and chars can combo just fine

It feels more authentic, have you played with JNPs kfm update
or the recent stuff Jmorphman put out?

Now tell me you dont feel a difference, its smooth like butter.


How come you don't use the command buffer system for your edits?

http://mugenguild.com/forum/topics/fix-all-your-command-issues-explodsive-buffering-system-180772.msg2366952.html#msg2366952

because explod buffering is fucking stupid

I would of loved to try out your system but its to damn complicated
and it uses alot of VARs my chars already use..and your terrible at
giving instructions on how to use it.

I still cant figure out how to use your cheat engine stuff with
cvs2 because the only instructions you posted where to use
Raidens grabs to get a breakpoint or whatever you didn't even
Explain how to open the script in cheat engine, all the steps it
takes to get the info so..
Last Edit: February 03, 2018, 11:44:10 pm by Memo
Re: Buffering.
#9  February 03, 2018, 11:42:04 pm
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i play with king and ken sometimes and to tell you the complete truth, i dont.
Re: Buffering.
#10  February 03, 2018, 11:47:53 pm
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i play with king and ken sometimes and to tell you the complete truth, i dont.

ken doesn't have it, you probably wont if your not a hardcore fighting
game fanatic. Ive been playing since the 90's super turbo and I can
definitely feel the difference.
Re: Buffering.
#11  February 03, 2018, 11:51:02 pm
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I actually am, been playing fighting games since i was 5 first game was killer instinct and so on and so forth i wouldnt be creating chars if i wasnt a hardcore fighting fan tbr. I just dont look at it as deeply as u do, im just in it for the enjoyment.
Re: Buffering.
#12  February 04, 2018, 12:11:39 am
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I actually am, been playing fighting games since i was 5 first game was killer instinct and so on and so forth i wouldnt be creating chars if i wasnt a hardcore fighting fan tbr. I just dont look at it as deeply as u do, im just in it for the enjoyment.

Even if it fixes the reverse cmd bug that alone should
be a reason to use it, its to easy..TO EASY lol to put
in your chars.

I'm pretty sure Jzilla is trolling since he never gave an
explanation on why the cmd buffer system
is "fucking retarded" explain your opinion please?
Re: Buffering.
#13  February 04, 2018, 12:23:42 am
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thats what im sayin, that issue, isnt really a issue, it never has been to me or my homies or have i never really seen or heard people complain about the commands before the system was made. i really see no strong reason to add it besides to say "btw this char uses the buffer system".  just my opinion on it.
Re: Buffering.
#14  February 04, 2018, 12:26:35 am
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it doesn't matter if youre a hardcore fanatic or not, the fact is that the problem is there. it is an issue and is just simply a fact.

it's up to you to implement in if you want to, I personally wish more creators did but having them not doesn't hurt anyone too much unless you're doing a full-game scenario. i noticed the buffering thing once i actually delved into the nitty gritty of how capcom fighting games work.

it got more noticeable for me once i tried out the FEXL beta and that game actually has the same issue MUGEN has when it comes to parsing inputs lmao
Re: Buffering.
#15  February 04, 2018, 12:30:49 am
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no one disagreed that it wasnt an issue, rather seems to just be a minor issue in my eyes. Maybe ill try it out in a future char just see if my opinion on it will change but for now, i dont think its necessary.

ink

Re: Buffering.
#16  February 04, 2018, 01:00:32 am
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I don’t think most people notice a problem with MUGEN.

I would imagine most people are more willing to try out Vans’ buffer system. It uses a helper and vars in a way that people are more use to seeing them. Using explods as triggers doesn’t seem to be as common.


Re: Buffering.
#17  February 04, 2018, 01:47:35 am
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If MUGEN wasn't such a poorly designed engine we wouldn't have had to use explods to keep the abitrarily limited amount of variables free! But since MUGEN is the way it is, an explod-based system is the best way to fix MUGEN's command issues, given the constraints MUGEN forces us to deal with. It's messy and inelegant, but it works, so I can't complain too much!
Re: Buffering.
#18  February 05, 2018, 03:20:22 pm
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As much as I like this and I managed to get it to work one fighter... it causes major slowdowns and frame lags even on fullscreen when I play with this on simul but 1v1 and turns mode it works just fine.
Beware the Dark Wolf once more!
Re: Buffering.
#19  February 05, 2018, 04:44:17 pm
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Are you disabling the explods being created for ai chars? Other than that I suppose it's a pc specs thing. First I've heard of issues with simul.
Re: Buffering.
#20  February 05, 2018, 08:23:09 pm
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As much as I like this and I managed to get it to work one fighter... it causes major slowdowns and frame lags even on fullscreen when I play with this on simul but 1v1 and turns mode it works just fine.

Dude I have a laptop from 2012 and never had any slowdown issues with the buffer system.
what are you running mugen on?
Re: Buffering.
#21  February 05, 2018, 10:53:09 pm
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As much as I like this and I managed to get it to work one fighter... it causes major slowdowns and frame lags even on fullscreen when I play with this on simul but 1v1 and turns mode it works just fine.
That's very, very odd, the worst that should happen is if too many explods get generated, commands should stop working, not cause slowdown. Could you upload the character(s) so we can take a look at what's wrong?
Re: Buffering.
#22  February 06, 2018, 01:51:30 am
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I think it's a PC specs issue cuz this is a brand new laptop I got with 500GB storage and Windows 10 and I ran this on full screen. Thing is when I fight the AI in 1v1, it runs perfectly fine. It's only in Simul I'm having the slowdown. Unless I need to play this on a windowed screen.
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Re: Buffering.
#23  February 06, 2018, 02:18:12 am
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I think it's a PC specs issue cuz this is a brand new laptop I got with 500GB storage and Windows 10 and I ran this on full screen. Thing is when I fight the AI in 1v1, it runs perfectly fine. It's only in Simul I'm having the slowdown. Unless I need to play this on a windowed screen.
If it's Mugen 1.0. I'd imagine MUGEN is still single threaded and since it's 1.0 it's CPU bound so GPU would be irrelevant. If the resolution is really high on 1.0 apparently it runs slower for some people depending on graphical intensity at higher resolutions (mugen.cfg resolution, if you're running resolution higher than 1080 maybe lower it to 720 in the cfg).

If it's Mugen 1.1 (in OpenGL mode). Check your videocard, if you have an Nvidia/AMD card good! Check to make sure any on-board Intel GFX card is disabled. Laptop Manufacturers, almost always use the same boards with onboard cards and just add an Nvida/AMD card on top, so you'd likely have 2 gfx cards. Problem is they don't configure Windows 10 to prioritize the Nvidia/AMD card, so it is likely using the onboard card for MUGEN rather then your real gfx card. Need to change the priorities around in Nvidia CP, or I think doing some funky stuff in device manager, been awhile since I worked on this so I forget the details.
If it's 1.1 and your using the standard onboard intel card I'm not sure, you may be able to update your drives and get some improvement.

I'm just guessing. Never used the cmd buffering even though I kind of want to try it, especially when i start messing around with charge commands.. Which is after I figure out how to play a charge character without injuring my thumb(curse you SFA3). :)
Re: Buffering.
#24  February 06, 2018, 02:49:18 am
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I think it's a PC specs issue cuz this is a brand new laptop I got with 500GB storage and Windows 10 and I ran this on full screen. Thing is when I fight the AI in 1v1, it runs perfectly fine. It's only in Simul I'm having the slowdown. Unless I need to play this on a windowed screen.
Does the slowdown happen when only one character is being used that implemented buffering, or does it only happen when all four characters use it?

And again, it would really help if we could see the character(s) code to see if there's anything else going on.
Re: Buffering.
#25  February 07, 2018, 03:46:21 am
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I can post the entire .cmd lines of text in a pastebin if that helps. and in 1v1, I used the fighter with the implemented buffering on both sides and neither of them caused any problems. I'll have to check and as for the gfx card thingy... I don't want to tinker around with this laptop I paid a lot of $$$ for to replace my other defected one. I only run 1.1 on OpenGL. I don't use 1.0 anymore.
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Re: Buffering.
#26  February 07, 2018, 04:38:34 am
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I can post the entire .cmd lines of text in a pastebin if that helps. and in 1v1, I used the fighter with the implemented buffering on both sides and neither of them caused any problems. I'll have to check and as for the gfx card thingy... I don't want to tinker around with this laptop I paid a lot of $$$ for to replace my other defected one. I only run 1.1 on OpenGL. I don't use 1.0 anymore.

Don't worry about the gfx stuff I doubt that has anything
to do with it at all, but you should probably send a copy
of the entire char to one of the guys so they can see if its
anything else in the char interfering with the cmd buffer.
They wont be able to find out by just looking at the cmd file.
Re: Buffering.
#27  February 07, 2018, 04:44:22 am
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Yeah, pretty much. It's hard to pinpoint what the issue might be, so looking at the entire character might be the only way to find out what's going on.
Re: Buffering.
#28  February 07, 2018, 09:45:59 pm
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Beware the Dark Wolf once more!
Re: Buffering.
#29  February 08, 2018, 05:49:29 am
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Huh, weird. I can't seem to get the slowdown to happen on my end.

Let's try to figure out if it's something related to your system. Try adding this (temporarily) to a character without the buffering system, and see what happens:
Code:
[State 0, Explod]
type = Explod
trigger1 = numexplod < 1000
anim = 1
removetime = 1000
Re: Buffering.
#30  February 08, 2018, 06:11:48 am
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Be sure to increase the explod limit so the stress test happens accurately.
Re: Buffering.
#31  February 10, 2018, 02:43:50 am
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I did and the only problem it gives me is that I can't see hitsparks, projectiles etc for moments of time. It does give me some lag but not like with Charizard with the buffering. Probably my laptop ain't strong enough. It ain't one of those gaming PCs.
Beware the Dark Wolf once more!
Last Edit: February 10, 2018, 02:57:39 am by DarkWolf13
Re: Buffering.
#32  February 25, 2018, 09:18:13 am
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Hi chance upon this thread and learned something interesting.
Other than this CMD explod buffering system, are there other systems or subsystems.that i should be aware of in the creation of new char?

I noticed there are alot of scrtls for this explod buffer system. Can check if there is any hard limitations that CMD can support? Cuz my current char has around 400+ commands already. And i read up somewhere AI coding will use ard 300+ commands and there is a cap (not specified in the reddit post)

2nd Qns:
Quote
Be sure to increase the explod limit so the stress test happens accurately.

Can share how to increase the limit of explod? And if there is any hard limitations?
Most of my moves for my current WIP char has more than7 explods per move.
Re: Buffering.
#33  February 25, 2018, 09:20:35 am
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Hi chance upon this thread and learned something interesting.
Other than this CMD explod buffering system, are there other systems or subsystems.that i should be aware of in the creation of new char?

I noticed there are alot of scrtls for this explod buffer system. Can check if there is any hard limitations that CMD can support? Cuz my current char has around 400+ commands already. And i read up somewhere AI coding will use ard 300+ commands and there is a cap (not specified in the reddit post)

2nd Qns:
Quote
Be sure to increase the explod limit so the stress test happens accurately.

Can share how to increase the limit of explod? And if there is any hard limitations?
Most of my moves for my current WIP char has more than7 explods per move.

You must be doing Ai commands the old fashion way, no need for
Ai to have 400+ commands lol go check out a 1.0 mugen chars ai

Edit* 

Go check out JNP's new kfm update it has new mugen standards
and a read me that will help you out.
Re: Buffering.
#34  February 25, 2018, 11:18:00 am
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Thankalot memo. Downloading in progress
Re: Buffering.
#35  February 25, 2018, 01:49:54 pm
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I thought there was a maximum of 256 commands in mugen, at least in DOS mugen... did 1.0 expand this limitation??
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