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Jin Kazama by SeanAltly (w/sprites by CVSNB) (Updated 9/5!!!) (Read 28915 times)

Started by Sean Altly, September 05, 2011, 01:09:26 am
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Re: Jin Kazama by SeanAltly (w/sprites by CVSNB)
#21  September 05, 2011, 04:52:47 am
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Now to add to my private sp, oh wip I mean. I have played many of your previous works to know this one is a winner, as well.
Re: Jin Kazama by SeanAltly (w/sprites by CVSNB)
#22  September 05, 2011, 04:57:07 am
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That's just it, there's no problems to address.  :P The character plays perfectly to how you made him, and there's no bugs either. Keep in mind that I also play MUGEN with friends so balance actually is a big deal to me, because I'm not just fighting AI all the time. I don't want you to make new moves but very small things can make the character atleast a little bit better. Besides, I'm supposed to be in the mechanics right? Since I'm all in that beta testing biz.

I'm not saying shit tier as an insult to the character, trust, but the character struggles to do well against many opponents due to the design of the character and the functionality of the moves. Against CM Punk for example he's outclassed by those fast, long reaching rekkas due to lack of invincibility on his moves and a reliable high priority move. He's got no answers for those counters except for airborne attacks like the lift kick and the spinning round house. Against Squall he's got no far reaching attacks that can punish those long-reaching sword slashes or a long-reaching invincible attack, except lift kick that can get through to Squall. God Hook also isn't an option because he's hit out of it 24/7, so I mean, what can he do? The Corpse Thrust is the only chance Jin has of ever getting in on him. The invulnerability can be subtly added, some moves do look like they make sense to have invincibility frames, like the beginning of the duck-dash of god hook, or the start of the roundhouse spinning kick, to me anyway. I don't know, I'm just talking. Don't wrap your head around it too much I guess but in the final product he's not going to be so great in matchups with certain types of characters, of course. Rorschach is his only match from what I've seen.
Re: Jin Kazama by SeanAltly (w/sprites by CVSNB)
#23  September 05, 2011, 05:00:05 am
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Dude!!  You made my day!! Great release.... Ive always wanted more Tekken characters in my Mugen. Keep up the great work. Happy Birthday. :sugoi:
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Re: Jin Kazama by SeanAltly (w/sprites by CVSNB)
#24  September 05, 2011, 05:13:48 am
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Well, I'll take a look at him more closely. Invincibility on his God Hook sounds like a good idea. I want him to be competitive. By the way, I also play with friends. Two of my best friends (one is also my roommate) are huge into fighting games too. They help a ton with balance, especially on SHADEs 2. They haven't checked out Jin yet, but they'd probably tell me the same thing you did. Trust me, I'm going to wrap my head around it because I want him to be better. Thanks again, I'll start implementing some tweaks and changes soon, and have an updated version later this week, maybe sooner.
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Re: Jin Kazama by SeanAltly (w/sprites by CVSNB)
#25  September 05, 2011, 05:40:01 am
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Well Happy birthday Sean!
Re: Jin Kazama by SeanAltly (w/sprites by CVSNB)
#26  September 05, 2011, 05:45:49 am
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(delayed) Happy B-day and thanks 4 this one, tekken chars r very rare

Re: Jin Kazama by SeanAltly (w/sprites by CVSNB)
#27  September 05, 2011, 06:25:37 am
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Hope am not to late to wish you a happy birthday but you got the wrong concept my friend, we are supposed to give you something on your day and ot you to us, anyway thanks a lot for this character and for do it a version compatible with the Win Mugen  :sugoi:

PS. Send my piece of cake to Cancun Mexico cause right now am at the beach  ;D

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Re: Jin Kazama by SeanAltly (w/sprites by CVSNB)
#28  September 05, 2011, 06:30:08 am
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Well since you are open to talking changes...here's what I'm thinking.

- Extend range of Tidal Wave slightly. Trust me when I say this will be a huge thing for Jin if you do it.
- Reduce recover of lp Demon's Paw slightly, but reduce damage just a little bit, and then lower how harsh it affects the damage dampener. (In which case I am commending you on making the dampener less strict with Jin.)
- Since we already talked about it, I'm just gonna say it again, invincibility on God Hook. You might even want to mess around with the distance of lp God Hook because it whiffs alot, but that's entirely optional.
- Work on the juggle ability of some of Jin's normals. That's not to say make him super juggle happy, because that's not what I want at all, but something like lp God Hook -> Light Punch -> Fierce Lift Kick should be possible. Alot of Jin's attacks don't lift up the opponent at all when they are hit, they just descend more once attacked, so some of the moves should have that property, which would lead into some juggles.
- Spinning Flare Kick should OTG just like in the Tekken series. Just make it a low damage thing that you can tack onto the end your combos after a close knockdown.
- Perhaps invest in a wakeup roll like in Tekken, but don't make it go too far.
- Heavy attacks that don't knockback too far when landed off a launch.
- Reduce recovery on the second kick of light Savage Sword, make it super safe on hit but still unsafe on block.

These changes will definitely put Jin up there, though he'll have a high learning curve. All I can ask is that you make all these changes pretty subtle and contained, because some of these suggestions if overdone will break Jin, and turn him into a monster.

EDIT: I might want to revoke the Demon's Paw recovery suggestion because I've learned that lp Demon's Paw can link into jab even though the timing is absurd, reducing the recovery would make it even easier, and can lead to infinites.
Last Edit: September 05, 2011, 06:41:57 am by Cazaki
Re: Jin Kazama by SeanAltly (w/sprites by CVSNB)
#29  September 05, 2011, 07:25:58 am
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Thanks alot! I was waiting for this release for a long time! Wait worth it!
Re: Jin Kazama by SeanAltly (w/sprites by CVSNB)
#30  September 05, 2011, 07:26:21 am
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So, after a bit of a test drive, I have to say that this Jin is VERY good. It plays like I'd expect a Tekken Character to play as in a Capcom setting to an extent.

He's a pretty good close-range character, so I suppose he'll be tricky to use, but deadly once mastered. It'll be interesting to see how his AI is handled, and how he'll be in the full game later on.

All in all, it's a good job and I can't wait to see more from you.
Re: Jin Kazama by SeanAltly (w/sprites by CVSNB)
#31  September 05, 2011, 07:40:42 am
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Did these for him, hope you like him, guess it's my way of saying happy birthday :)
Last Edit: September 05, 2011, 07:44:17 am by ChocolateGiddyUp
Re: Jin Kazama by SeanAltly (w/sprites by CVSNB)
#32  September 05, 2011, 09:56:53 am
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Cazaki gave some very nice insight about the juggling problems and moves lacking some special properties, so I won't say more about this. I'll be waiting for the update to see the nerfs. :)

Apart from that :
- Can't do crouch attacks when running.
- He can jump over downed cornered opponents.

GOH

Re: Jin Kazama by SeanAltly (w/sprites by CVSNB)
#33  September 05, 2011, 11:27:23 am
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I'll try him out as soon as I can. Thanks for the release Sean and happy belated birthday. ;)
Re: Jin Kazama by SeanAltly (w/sprites by CVSNB)
#34  September 05, 2011, 11:51:45 am
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I really enjoyed that character, hope nobody keep pestering in the project of NxC Jin now.
But anyway, he use the same command type of Tekken series.
I don't saw any bugs and he plays pretty solid, congrats and happy late birthday^^
-Toshio Tenma
Re: Jin Kazama by SeanAltly (w/sprites by CVSNB)
#35  September 05, 2011, 12:23:06 pm
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I've been playing a lot of Batman Arkham Asylum lately so my pad is not readily available, but I'll play with him as soon as I can.  A lot of people are saying he feels low tier and needs a buff, but I kind of thought the same thing about CM Punk until I went deeper into what he could do and learned some cool tricks with him.  I'll post some feedback when I can.

Happy birthday and congratulations on the release.
Re: Jin Kazama by SeanAltly (w/sprites by CVSNB)
#36  September 05, 2011, 12:53:06 pm
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AWESOME CHARACTER!
Re: Jin Kazama by SeanAltly (w/sprites by CVSNB)
#37  September 05, 2011, 01:02:30 pm
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Yeah, forgot about that when writing my feedback : HAPPY BIRTHDAY MAN !!! I hope you're having (or had) a good time today.
Re: Jin Kazama by SeanAltly (w/sprites by CVSNB)
#38  September 05, 2011, 01:26:41 pm
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Awesome releaaase!! (but I thought that you'll be release Shades of Manhattan 2 ;D) Anyway, it's a great new, also, Happy B-Day (a bit late now) like I say days before in YouTube, thanks for sharing, and also to CVSNB for do this sprites! :sugoi:
Re: Jin Kazama by SeanAltly (w/sprites by CVSNB)
#39  September 05, 2011, 03:22:25 pm
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Ok here's my feedback.

IMO he really isn't that bad at all.  Compared to Punk and Squall he isn't as air combo intensive, but he's a Tekken character, Tekken characters are known for on the ground combos, which Jin has plenty of.  I do, however, think his damage payoff should be a little bit higher, and I'm surprised that you can't connect with a launcher after Demon's Paw.  Other than that I don't see why people say he' s so weak, you just got to be a little experimental.
Re: Jin Kazama by SeanAltly (w/sprites by CVSNB)
#40  September 05, 2011, 04:30:17 pm
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Sure he CAN do good combos. But the key is getting in, which is difficult in his current state.