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Zangoose Updated 13/01/2014 (Read 31147 times)

Started by The 100 Mega Shock!, December 24, 2013, 10:51:02 pm
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Re: Zangoose
#21  December 27, 2013, 02:33:23 pm
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Re: Zangoose
#22  December 27, 2013, 05:36:36 pm
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This looks fantastic and beautifully rendered.  I'll for sure give this a try when I get home today.
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Re: Zangoose
#23  December 28, 2013, 12:12:45 pm
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Played with this for a bit. Could use adjustments in quite a few places.

- Crouch Light Kick, Crouch Medium Kick and Crouch Hard Punch should specify guardtype = L. Right now they can be blocked high when they are clearly low attacks.
- Similarly, all air attacks should specify guardtype = H. These can also be blocked low.
- Jumping Light Punch will go through opponents if close up. Hitbox needs to be extended backwards some more.
- When crossing up opponent, if you land on the other side, inputs will be reversed until Zangoose fully turns. Fix this by specifying facep2 = 1 in state 52.

- Command normal ( Forward + Hard Kick ) is a pointless move because of the heavy recovery. I suggest improving the move by making it an overhead move, as well as allowing the player to control some of the momentum by holding backward to decrease it and forward to increase it. The hitstun/hittime should be increased by at least 7 - 10 frames.

The specials feel generally underwhelming and I feel each one needs some properties adjusted.

Fury Swipes:
- The startup of each of the versions is 13 frames, with only distance as the main variant. I suggest you make the light and medium versions start up faster and keep the hard version at 13. A good order would be 7, 10, 13 and 7 for the ex version.
- The final hit should be a knockdown. As of now it can be reversal punished on hit by a quick attack. If you decide to do this, you may want to remove the super cancel from the final hit, but keep it on the first two.
- Not necessary, but I think the Ex version should not have the auto-complete for the 3 swipes

Tackle:
- The width of the player needs to be adjusted as the push detection does not occur until the player is midway through the body. The push detection should be moved forward to around mid head region. To fix this use a width sctrl with this format:

Code:
type = width
trigger1 = till move ends
player = x, -x
; eg: player = 10, -10 -> this will move the push detection forward by 10. you may need more.

- I also feel that the Ex version should have some benefits, either upper body invincible or full projectile invincible until the first hitting frame.

Pursuit:
- Right now the only varying factor is the forward distance travelled. I think that the height should also vary with Ex staying the same.
- The follow-ups should have these properties adjusted:

1) Punch follow-up should be an overhead (right now it can be blocked low)
2) Kick follow-up should not hit a grounded or airborne opponent.

Iron Tail:
- I feel that the move should knock the opponent further back, at least 3/4 screen.
- The Ex version could use some invincible frames before impact

I feel the supers have the same generic issue as well

X-Scissor:
- Right now it is extremely punishable on hit ( at least -13 frames ).
- I suggest it knockdown as well as send the opponent a full screen away. You can increase the hit shaking to create a more painful/dramatic effect.
- It should also have a few invincible frames before impact.

Crush Claw:
- Although it has no invincibility whatsoever, it is fully unblockable in the air and the ground.
- This may change your entire intention of the move, but I suggest making it simply an anti-air grab move with it whiffing completely on standing and crouching opponents. This would involve changing the angle as well. If you go through with this, I suggest making a rough variation of 80, 65, 50 degrees for the light, medium and hard versions. If you didn't understand this, light should be the most steep angle and heavy should be the most forward moving. The X-Scissor has enough utility so I think you can afford to make this change.
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Re: Zangoose
#24  January 03, 2014, 05:03:28 pm
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I think I actually forgot to adjust Zangoose's width from Mewtwo's values. The width has been fixed and made slightly wider during Tackle as well; I also forgot to make adjustments to the guardflags when making each Crouch hitdef. Attacks were originally intended to be unblockable in air but I'll probably look at reversing that since the gameplay has turned into a hybrid of elements from games like Marvel.

Crush Claw would probably work better as anti-air now that X-Scissor has slightly more reach and gains knockdown properties, and I'll make other changes to special moves to improve/diversify them

Known issues / current changelog, aiming to get an update ready sometime in the week -


AI:
(Behaviour changes apply to higher difficulty levels; lower difficulty may perform actions at random)

Should be able to get around fireballs easier
Shouldn't try to guard cancel fireballs unless the enemy is very close
No longer attempts Pursuit attacks before it's possible for the player to use them.
Shouldn't try and combo into Crush Claw when startup is too long
Shouldn't try and combo into Tackle when startup is too long
Shouldn't try and use X-Scissor when the opponent is too high up
Checks both player's facing when choosing the appropriate ground recovery
-

Width adjusted to fit the sprite.
Tackle width made larger. Hurtbox made larger around the head and elbow, hitbox pushes out slightly further and not as tall.
Crouching LK, MK and HP cannot be guarded high.
Reduced EX Fury Swipe damage to reasonable levels.
Fixed Tackle, Close HK, and Jump LP missing when next to very thin opponents
EX Iron Tail reduces opponent's defence for a short period of time.
EX Pursuit followups now unique.
Pursuit width increased
Close MK reaches much further.
f+HK recovery changed.
Ground Recovery faces player 2 when standing up.
X-Scissor knocks down opponents, hitbox made slightly taller.
Several EX moves / supers given small invulnerability periods
Character-specific winquotes enabled.
Minor animation & velocity changes.
Last Edit: January 07, 2014, 12:23:13 am by The 100 Mega Shock!
Re: Zangoose
#25  January 03, 2014, 05:48:32 pm
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You know what I like the most? The palettes! And you used them as advantage for keeping Zangoose's asymmetrical appearance from being mirrored.
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Re: Zangoose
#26  January 03, 2014, 07:31:02 pm
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Excellent Zangoose release there man. I will try him out and reply about it.
Re: Zangoose Update 13/01/14
#27  January 13, 2014, 11:39:26 pm
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- When crossing up opponent, if you land on the other side, inputs will be reversed until Zangoose fully turns. Fix this by specifying facep2 = 1 in state 52.

This state has been changed to be more in line with real games; Zangoose immediately turns around once he regains control during the landing animation (which has much shorter recovery) now. This still allows you to input commands in reverse as you hit the ground, but from playing Marvel and Vampire Savior they appear to have a buffer that makes it a lot easier to pull off attacks as soon as you hit the ground by entering the command in the direction you were jumping. I want to emulate this behavior even if the Mugen input system isn't as sophisticated.


Update Time:



http://www.mediafire.com/download/i8fialcpsodscw0/zangoose.zip
http://www.mediafire.com/download/iif1ulvm1fp7kip/zangoose.7z

For the benefit of the new page; Mediafire URL is always the most recent version.

This update fixes several bugs and oversights in the AI and character code and makes general improvements to most of the character, including more variance to the special attacks:

AI:
(Behaviour changes apply to higher difficulty levels; lower difficulty may perform actions at random)

Might get around fireballs a little better.
Shouldn't try to guard cancel fireballs unless the enemy is very close.
No longer attempts Pursuit attacks before it's possible for the player to use them.
Shouldn't try and combo into Crush Claw when startup is too long.
Shouldn't try and combo into Tackle when startup is too long.
Shouldn't try and use X-Scissor when the opponent is too high up.
Checks both player's facing when choosing the appropriate ground recovery.
------------------------------------------------------

Palette select off by default. Times-out after a period of inactivity, should retain values between each round.
Width adjusted to fit the sprite.
Recovery time from jumping significantly reduced.
Turning animation takes precedence when Zangoose jumps over the opponent.
Fixed HK throw using the wrong variable in a trigger.
Close MK reaches much further.
Crouch MK hitbox slightly lowered.
f+HK recovery changed.
Ground Recovery faces player 2 when standing up.
Crouching LK, MK and HP cannot be guarded high.
Jumping normals cannot be guarded low.
Most moves can now be blocked in the air.
Fixed Tackle, Close HK, and Jump LP missing when next to very thin opponents.
EX Iron Tail reduces opponent's defence for a short period of time.

Fury Swipes:
   Reduced EX damage to reasonable levels.
   EX doesn't automatically attempt the 3rd attack.
   3rd hit now causes knockdown, can't be cancelled into super.
   2nd hit recovers much faster if not continued.
   Damage and startup reduced for Light and Medium variants.
Pursuit:
   EX followups now unique.
   Width increased.
   Grab no longer reaches crouching opponents.
   Angle of jump adjusted for each strength.
Tackle:
   Width made larger.
   Hurtbox made larger around the head and elbow.
   Hitbox pushes out slightly further and not as tall.
X-Scissor:
   Knocks down opponents.
   Hitbox made slightly taller.
   X Velocity increased.
Crush Claw:
   Attack sequence no longer uses hitdefs, so characters with odd hitboxes or a strange mid pos won't be stuck in the air.
   Hitdef now active from the correct frame when the hitbox appears
   Can't grab crouching opponents.
   X Velocity decreased; Y increased.
   Hitbox moved higher and further inside Zangoose's sprite
   Grab hitbox isn't active for the entire animation while falling
   
Several EX moves / supers given small invulnerability periods
Character-specific winquotes enabled.
Minor animation & velocity changes.
Re: Zangoose Updated 13/01/2014
#28  January 13, 2014, 11:42:46 pm
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Re: Zangoose Updated 13/01/2014
#29  January 15, 2014, 06:59:34 am
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-EX Fury Swipes' second hit is +6 on hit, so you can loop into and out of it pretty easily.
-His damage scaling doesn't have a cap, so it'll eventually start giving P2 health back if a combo goes on for long enough.
Spoiler: Put those two together and you get... (click to see content)
-It seems weird that he can combo into Pursuit's grab. Especially since it does more damage than Fury Swipes (at least within combos).
-I feel like there should be some sort of indication that EX Iron Tail lowers P2's defenses.
-Fury Swipes' third hit is +3 on block. Should be a bit less safe imo.
-Maybe make Iron Tail more safe as kind of a compromise and to actually give it use outside of the EX version.
-Weird how his grab inputs have more priority over his special inputs.
-I'm not really sure about punch throw tossing P2 all the way across the screen. Seems a bit excessive.
-Also silly personal preference thing but maybe switch the punch and kick throws around? IDK I'm prob too used to KOF and how its throws work.
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Last Edit: January 15, 2014, 07:33:22 am by Ceded Time Nook Fourteen
Re: Zangoose Updated 13/01/2014
#30  January 15, 2014, 12:55:22 pm
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Two dumb mistakes; I didn't remember that EX swipes recovers so fast without the third autocombo and the damage scaling limit has never actually worked

I've quickly reuploaded the file to correct EX Swipes, the damage limiter and make HP throw look nicer.
Last Edit: January 15, 2014, 04:30:21 pm by The 100 Mega Shock!
Re: Zangoose Updated 13/01/2014
#31  January 16, 2014, 07:20:51 pm
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Is it me or Crush Claw NEVER hits?
Re: Zangoose Updated 13/01/2014
#32  January 16, 2014, 07:27:34 pm
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It's unlikely to hit anyone standing unless you're fighting somebody the size of Hugo or Raoh.
Re: Zangoose Updated 13/01/2014
#33  February 04, 2014, 06:47:06 pm
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I think you should give Mewtwo a winquote for when he beats Zangoose.
Re: Zangoose Updated 13/01/2014
#34  February 18, 2014, 09:21:59 am
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Played a while with it.
Nice and good quilaty charactor! I'll keep it even I know nothing about pockmon