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"Vampire" Mugen characters..!? (Read 43140 times)

Started by "Bad News" Hoffmann, January 07, 2010, 04:47:21 pm
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Re: "Vampire" Mugen characters..!?
#41  January 09, 2010, 01:44:13 am
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So...Heidern is a vampire.
Re: "Vampire" Mugen characters..!?
#42  January 09, 2010, 01:51:27 am
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In a broad definition, yes.

If you want to know if he fits into a specific criteria, I'ld ask you first what do you define as 'Vampire'.  The african Adze, latin american Civateteo, arabic Ghul, greek Strix, etc. etc.?

Re: "Vampire" Mugen characters..!?
#43  January 09, 2010, 02:01:06 am
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Q : Are those mentioned vampires undeads of some kind?
Last Edit: January 09, 2010, 02:15:57 am by Satan's Three Headed Piñata
Re: "Vampire" Mugen characters..!?
#44  January 09, 2010, 02:12:18 am
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This just turned into an interesting thread.
Re: "Vampire" Mugen characters..!?
#45  January 09, 2010, 03:03:34 am
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Q : Are those mentioned vampires undeads of some kind?
Yes.

But first, please define 'undead'. You mean undead as in 'evil spirit inhabiting a dead corpse' (Ch'iang Shi) or 'empty dead corpse puppet animated by an evil wizard' (Caribbean Zombie type).

LOL cultural differences which share same ideas.

Re: "Vampire" Mugen characters..!?
#46  January 09, 2010, 03:14:37 am
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Wait, by undead, do you consider something like the Krasue as well? They were too vampires but they were alive.
Re: "Vampire" Mugen characters..!?
#47  January 09, 2010, 03:20:19 am
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Haven't we had this discussion before ?
If I struggled to the end of my determination, to the end of my way of life with my followers, if the result is ruin, then this ruin is inevitable. Grieve. Shed tears. But you cannot regret.
Re: "Vampire" Mugen characters..!?
#48  January 09, 2010, 03:24:22 am
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A vampire needn't be undead in my personal 'broad' notion. Nor do undeads need to be vampires, again, in my personal broad definition of undead.

If Krasue are ghost-inhabited floating heads, though it's kinda complicated.

Now that we are asking questions about what is being 'undead', how about asking questions about what is being 'alive'? Do mere biological processes of a given set of organs define a whole being as 'alive'? Is Robocop an undead, considering he is mostly an inanimated carcass fueled by an external power source? ;P

Re: "Vampire" Mugen characters..!?
#49  January 09, 2010, 03:27:24 am
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Robocop is a cyborg, even if his cyborg parts include a life system, would you consider Tony stark a undead since he is would be dead without an external power source?
Re: "Vampire" Mugen characters..!?
#50  January 09, 2010, 03:29:37 am
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cyborgs vs robots ?

dr house is a cyborg ina  broad definition, while a calculator is a robot by that.
Re: "Vampire" Mugen characters..!?
#51  January 09, 2010, 03:38:34 am
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would you consider Tony stark a undead since he is would be dead without an external power source?
I probably wouldn't, but a ton people of other cultural backgrounds and other eras would, probably. :D

Witchcraft-ridden aberration-life-support armor! To the fire with him!

And, by most canons, Vampires feed of life energy - be it blood or breathe. Robocop has none, actually. So...

PS: Robots are evil puppets of Satan that must be destroyed.

Re: "Vampire" Mugen characters..!?
#52  January 09, 2010, 03:38:53 am
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A vampire needn't be undead in my personal 'broad' notion.
Your broad definition sucks very hard. A cat is a feline, but it's not reason enough to decide that you set up a broad definition of "cat" that include every single other felines. You're talking about undeads, and vampires is one type of that. I don't give a shit if you have other DIFFERENT creatures that have similar things.
You can have a loose definition, but you need some kind of limits, otherwise you'll just say, whatever, I'll just call all of these things "creatures" and I'll just say "can plants be considered creatures ? Well it depends on your definition of 'creature' !"
In this case, even Dracula didn't die under the sunlight so it's loose to a degree, but there IS a limit to the definition. If you don't like it and want to be a smartass, it's your problem.
If I struggled to the end of my determination, to the end of my way of life with my followers, if the result is ruin, then this ruin is inevitable. Grieve. Shed tears. But you cannot regret.
Last Edit: January 09, 2010, 03:43:30 am by Byakko
Re: "Vampire" Mugen characters..!?
#53  January 09, 2010, 03:50:26 am
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So, if I disagree with your notion and believe it sucks hard, how do we deal with it, considering, for instance, that I toss average human serial killers who drink blood into the mix?

I'm not saying that everything is the same. I'm saying, let's agree with which taxonomy we are working with BEFORE trying to fit what we see into categories.

You want to consider vampires to be undead? Make your friggin' case on it. Give me reasons why your criteria that excludes a number of killed-by-sunlight-blood-drinking-evil creatures that are alive is BETTER than others.
If we agree that Vampires are undead (let's suppose that), then we could define a bigger branch which englobes all these as 'Supernatural Parasitic Beings', which encompasses living and non-living entities, right?
What would you do if you ran into someone who said: 'what I think you define as Supernatural Parasitic Beings are Vampires to me, and I divided them into undead and alive'? I don't see any practical disadvantages in that!

In this case, even Dracula didn't die under the sunlight so it's loose to a degree
No, he didn't. A ton Hollywood renditions show Drac dying in sunlight. As do Castlevania games. Some novels don't. Vlad Tsepesch didn't die from sunlight exposure, so you are not even being historically accurate. It's just YOUR MADE UP CRITERIA (which you took, I guess, from Bram Stoker's book and/or Francis Ford Coppola's movie). You can't say 'this is the canon version' in this, there isn't a church of Vampirism with the true gospel, nor any empirical scientific studies. :P

So, which Dracula are you talking about?

My point here being we should try start using more 'I statements' in this place. :P

Last Edit: January 09, 2010, 04:00:13 am by Lasombra Demon
Re: "Vampire" Mugen characters..!?
#54  January 09, 2010, 04:01:06 am
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The original idea of Dracula didn't die in the sunlight.
+
It's also widely accepted that vampires die in the sunlight because it's been very widely spread pretty early and it has been so for ages.
=
Both versions can be called vampires.

Some loser couldn't find a better word when translating a completely foreign concept of spiritual possession of a dead body which was completely unrelated to an other concept that he nevertheless was more familiar with.
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in the 2000s, some emo douche decided to write a book about vampires without reading anything about vampires, and decided that her vampires would sparkle in the sunlight.
=
This is just made up shit.

Now if that concept of sparkling somehow got much more widely spread for, say, more than half a century at the very least, and everyone starts calling that a vampire, then the definition will probably change.
But right now, this is not the case.

See the difference ?
If I struggled to the end of my determination, to the end of my way of life with my followers, if the result is ruin, then this ruin is inevitable. Grieve. Shed tears. But you cannot regret.
Last Edit: January 09, 2010, 04:04:45 am by Byakko
Re: "Vampire" Mugen characters..!?
#55  January 09, 2010, 04:12:02 am
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Yes. One is older and more widespread among certain audience. Probably not Asian, nor African, Latin American, or from the Middle East.
It is also based on the interpretation of one of the first guys who got successful at selling a book based on a culturally-old popular folklor myth from a land he wasn't from (sup Bram Stoker).

Does that mean one notion of 'Vampire' is better? Or the truth?

When I see 15 year olds watching Twilight crap I, too, say 'those aren't vampires, dammit!'. Just like I say 90% of the stuff Hollywood makes aren't movies. But I'm not being literal about it. o_O

Re: "Vampire" Mugen characters..!?
#56  January 09, 2010, 04:14:23 am
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Quote
Does that mean one notion of 'Vampire' is better? Or the truth?
I just said that there can be vampires that do this and vampires that don't. But there is no vampire that sparkle in the sun in any popular culture that isn't under 5 year old.
Quote
It is also based on the interpretation of one of the first guys who got successful at selling a book based on a culturally-old popular folklor myth from a land he wasn't from (sup Bram Stoker).
Yeah, that's pretty much exactly that. He got successful. It stuck. For over a century. That's why the definition can include his version. That's exactly what I'm saying. If you don't like that I don't know what else you need more than being part of popular culture for over a century. If Twilight lasts more than 70 years, maybe it'll be part of the definition. But not before that. As it is, under 5 year old and written by a person who actually refused to learn about actual vampires, this is bullshit.
If I struggled to the end of my determination, to the end of my way of life with my followers, if the result is ruin, then this ruin is inevitable. Grieve. Shed tears. But you cannot regret.
Last Edit: January 09, 2010, 04:18:26 am by Byakko
Re: "Vampire" Mugen characters..!?
#57  January 09, 2010, 04:19:35 am
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There is no vampire that sparkle in the sun in any popular culture that isn't under 5 year old.
That's all I wanted. Now that's a first step, a frame we can share to talk. A criteria.

Now, I'ld like to see your sources and anthropological sampling methods to back such a bold statement (specially in countries like Malaysia, Thailand, Vietnam, Korea, most Central America, and some portions of Northern Europe), because I seriously don't know if NO ONE EVER did think this. I would tend to agree with you, but only from a common sense standpoint, and I only tend to sustain such positions when it comes to scientifically-proven facts.

Re: "Vampire" Mugen characters..!?
#58  January 09, 2010, 04:20:56 am
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:omg: Now you're just trolling.
It's called popular culture for a reason. If no one knows about it, then it's not popular culture and that's fucking it. And don't ask me if I checked everyone on Earth to see if really no one knows about it, the Devil's proof is not valid. You want to prove something exists, you show it, not the other way around.
If I struggled to the end of my determination, to the end of my way of life with my followers, if the result is ruin, then this ruin is inevitable. Grieve. Shed tears. But you cannot regret.
Last Edit: January 09, 2010, 04:26:41 am by Byakko
Re: "Vampire" Mugen characters..!?
#59  January 09, 2010, 04:25:32 am
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It's definetly not popular culture in my town. That's why I only trust studies with huge samples in this kind of matters; my grandmother still says 'everyone hates the jews!'. ::)

Now, let's define popular culture.[size=5pt]LOL, now I'm trolling.[/size]

The only kinda thing I'm trying to do here is asking people to keep their minds a bit more open to more than the average vampire image most of us are used to. That's all. :)

Re: "Vampire" Mugen characters..!?
#60  January 09, 2010, 04:26:58 am
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Uh lasombra, is it really worthy to do such a complex taxonomic division of fictional creatures?