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Transgenders now allowed to compete in Miss Universe Pageant (Read 4771 times)

Started by Ricepigeon, April 10, 2012, 10:21:51 pm
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Jango

Re: Transgenders now allowed to compete in Miss Universe Pageant
#61  April 11, 2012, 11:44:00 pm
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Chronan

Re: Transgenders now allowed to compete in Miss Universe Pageant
#62  April 12, 2012, 12:56:47 am
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Rajaa said, April 11, 2012, 11:31:23 pm
What are you talking about? You keep trying to be so self-righteous. Why don't you just shut up for once? Nobody twisted his words.
That's not true, Caddie started it earlier, and others continued albeit in a more or less subtle manner. Maybe not by twisting his words per say but putting words in his mouth and insinuating a disdain of transgendered people. Whether it actually be the case, or whether the joke itself is funny or tasteful, "chicks with dicks" is a joke that I remember going way back in the early 90s (and so are these pageants). Sure it's a joke phrase that can be used in a very negative and demeaning context by someone who actually hates transgendered people, but the same goes for Chapelle Show back in the day, which was a funny show some of the time despite it being horribly racist.

People tried to crucify him here anyway because of the original shitty thread title though, despite his compliance to change it, apologize, and do so in a very cool manner. Also there's plenty of other people pushing their self-righteous opinions in this thread. :)

Jmorphman

Re: Transgenders now allowed to compete in Miss Universe Pageant
#63  April 12, 2012, 01:00:34 am
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Re: Transgenders now allowed to compete in Miss Universe Pageant
#64  April 12, 2012, 01:24:57 am
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I think this is a really nice step and it's pretty awesome that people pushed for this to happen. Maybe one day pure equality will exist? Hopefully, probably not when we're around though.

But are there truly grown men in this world?!

Cobra Caddie

Re: Transgenders now allowed to compete in Miss Universe Pageant
#65  April 12, 2012, 01:30:34 am
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<3Chrono_WifeXOXO said, April 12, 2012, 12:56:47 am
That's not true, Caddie started it earlier, and others continued albeit in a more or less subtle manner. Maybe not by twisting his words per say but putting words in his mouth and insinuating a disdain of transgendered people. Whether it actually be the case, or whether the joke itself is funny or tasteful, "chicks with dicks" is a joke that I remember going way back in the early 90s (and so are these pageants). Sure it's a joke phrase that can be used in a very negative and demeaning context by someone who actually hates transgendered people, but the same goes for Chapelle Show back in the day, which was a funny show some of the time despite it being horribly racist.

People tried to crucify him here anyway because of the original shitty thread title though, despite his compliance to change it, apologize, and do so in a very cool manner. Also there's plenty of other people pushing their self-righteous opinions in this thread. :)

What the hell? Where did I ever in this thread twist anybodies words? Those were all his words. He was the one who mocked a post-op transgendered person in a thread he started. He called the pageant a "sausage fest" now and said that he laughs at the contest because of this, and then later in the thread said that he DOES have a view on transsexuality shaped by a traumatic experience. It wasn't just because of the thread title either, he didn't apologize for it and instead said he was "sucking up to demands".

I don't think it's a good idea to start a thread that's whole messaged appeared to be "haha this is sick look at what these people let into their pageant what a joke let's laugh at them". Though to be honest I don't really like any thread which basically is just a slanted topic title and a link to a news story. RicePigeon I'm not nor would I ever mock you for having a traumatic experience in your past, nor do I blame you for having a certain viewpoint based on that experience. But I wasn't gonna sit by and see someone being mocked for these non-harmful life decisions, not when I'm friends with several transgendered people myself who have been great friends to me. I know they see things like this and it effects them. What is supposed to be something that is a huge step in progression and acceptance being tainted by people saying it's a bad decision or a step in the wrong direction and mocking them and saying hateful things about them.

Btw I also think that no one's reputation is tainted by this. What I think it would take to taint your reputation, RicePigeon, would be actively targeting people on this forum to intentionally mock, humiliate, or demean them. I don't think you're malicious or that any of this was intentional so I don't think you would do something like that.
Last Edit: April 12, 2012, 01:48:44 am by Caddie

kakkoii superhero

Re: Transgenders now allowed to compete in Miss Universe Pageant
#66  April 12, 2012, 02:17:48 am
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I'm still against this idea.
in this level of beauty pageant should also about what you're born with, and not the end result of plastic surgeries, collagen and implants padded person,

and about equality? we are not equal by nature, some of us are born beautiful, some are not that lucky, so we who don't have beauty pageant material looks know our place not to force ourselves into the show by altering our appearances,

the same with a person who was born in wrong body, woman who was born with penis and no breast.
so she changed herself into corrected body through operation, now she looks like a woman, thanks to the skillful plastic surgeons.
should she now enter herself into beauty miss universe pageant contest?
IMO she should fly to Thailand and enter the transgender queen contest, because that is what she is, although she has a slim chance to win there against thai's transgenders.

of course if it is about voting she has a potential to win, because even though they are minority but together they can unite and cast more votes than the majority of world population, who care to watch and cast their vote for a beauty pageant contest, and plus people who just picked her for the heck of it.   

Dcat

Re: Transgenders now allowed to compete in Miss Universe Pageant
#67  April 12, 2012, 02:29:47 am
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Sir, said, April 12, 2012, 02:17:48 am
I'm still against this idea.
in this level of beauty pageant should also about what you're born with, and not the end result of plastic surgeries, collagen and implants padded person,
ARE YOU SERIOUS? The merits for beauty in these pageants concerning some socially constructed  feminine ideal are all based around artifice. If it were down to a natural beauty, no alterations decision I doubt any of the contestants would be eligible...

On a related note, I'm very proud to be a member of this forum after reading Caddie, Rajaa's and Jmorphman's posts. Its good to know that our generation isn't as small-minded as it once was when it comes to issues of inequality.

 

Jango

Re: Transgenders now allowed to compete in Miss Universe Pageant
#68  April 12, 2012, 02:32:49 am
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Navatsea went for sexism AND racism in his post. Wow.


And to ChronoWifeXOXOetcetc, Dave Chapelle isn't racist because HE'S A NIGGER
Last Edit: April 12, 2012, 02:35:53 am by Chekhov's NERF Gun

Cobra Caddie

Re: Transgenders now allowed to compete in Miss Universe Pageant
#69  April 12, 2012, 02:34:44 am
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Sir, said, April 12, 2012, 02:17:48 am
Spoiler, click to toggle visibilty

But beauty pageants have featured plastic surgery, collagen, implants, make up, tape, and body altering and concealing techniques for decades. She doesn't look how she looks just from surgery either. It takes hard work and a bit of genetic luck to look like that. I would imagine her looks are just as 'natural' as a LOT of the women in the contest.

If she is legally a woman now, and she's beautiful, why not enter a beauty pageant for women? Why be forced to fly to Thailand? I personally don't even like the concept of beauty pageants, but it's not for me. It's for women who work hard on their appearance and want to reach the peak of that hard work; being judged as "most beautiful" in competition. This woman just wants to be a part of that, too.

Though I gotta say I understand why there are people who are against this, this subject is justifiably open to differing opinions. Just why does she need to be insulted and degraded just because the decision went in her favor?

kakkoii superhero

Re: Transgenders now allowed to compete in Miss Universe Pageant
#70  April 12, 2012, 02:53:21 am
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when I said beauty pageant I specifically typed miss universe, and when I said plastic surgery, please use your sense about how much is too much.

I don't insult her, or being sexist, it just, there is another more fitting place for her to compete against without being mocked or being suspected of riding the current hot LGBT issue,
she could have asked the reporter to hide her face, but instead she smiled to the camera, she is not stupid, she will use the exposure to her advantage.

and I'm serious about saying she has a slim chance to win against Thai's transgender queens.


btw, Cad
flying to USA for miss universe pageant is ok
but flying to Thailand for transgender queen pageant is not ok?
why,
is Thailand < USA?
is she not a transgender?
Last Edit: April 12, 2012, 02:58:20 am by Sir,

Cobra Caddie

Re: Transgenders now allowed to compete in Miss Universe Pageant
#71  April 12, 2012, 03:01:04 am
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So plastic surgery is fine everywhere but the groin? And when I asked if she should be insulted or degraded, I didn't mean that it was coming from you. Just that it's happening.

I'm sure that she wants to be accepted as a woman. As much as she can be. I'm sure that the publicity could help or hurt her extremely and good luck to her, it had to have taken a lot of courage to go through with this. This is still a world where you can be killed for being this public about being a transsexual.

I don't get why you would suggest she should give up a contest where you think she could win and compete in a competition in which you think she would lose, btw.

Edit:

Sir, said, April 12, 2012, 02:53:21 am
btw, Cad
flying to USA for miss universe pageant is ok
but flying to Thailand for transgender queen pageant is not ok?
why,
is Thailand < USA?
is she not a transgender?

No, I didn't mean that. I meant why should she travel to Thailand to compete in a different contest when that's not her desire? Besides, traveling to the US from Vancouver is a lot different than traveling all the way to Thailand.

Edit 2: Apparently she already HAS competed in a Thailand beauty pageant:
Quote
Talackova has never hidden her status and in fact took part in the 2010 Miss International Queen competition in Thailand
Last Edit: April 12, 2012, 03:12:55 am by Caddie

CF7

Re: Transgenders now allowed to compete in Miss Universe Pageant
#72  April 12, 2012, 04:30:58 am
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Caddie said, April 12, 2012, 03:01:04 am
Edit 2: Apparently she already HAS competed in a Thailand beauty pageant:
Quote
Talackova has never hidden her status and in fact took part in the 2010 Miss International Queen competition in Thailand
...so it really is a marketing ploy...!

Cobra Caddie

Re: Transgenders now allowed to compete in Miss Universe Pageant
#73  April 12, 2012, 04:34:00 am
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No because Miss International Queen is a transgender/transsexual only competition.

...I had to look all this stuff up, it's not off-hand knowledge to me. Really!

Chronan

Re: Transgenders now allowed to compete in Miss Universe Pageant
#74  April 12, 2012, 04:42:34 am
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Jmorphman said, April 12, 2012, 01:00:34 am
<3Chrono_WifeXOXO said, April 12, 2012, 12:56:47 am
but the same goes for Chapelle Show back in the day, which was a funny show some of the time despite it being horribly racist.
Uhh... what?
Seriously? Really offensive racist jokes. It was still funny as hell. I'm not sure why there's any confusion here.

Chekhov's NERF Gun said, April 12, 2012, 02:32:49 am
And to ChronoWifeXOXOetcetc, Dave Chapelle isn't racist because HE'S A NIGGER
Yeah, I'm a big Michael Richards fan too. I never said he was racist because of his jokes btw, that was my point. That he makes horribly racist jokes and it's good. RicePigeon or whoever the OP was may have been trying to do the same thing, but his execution blew dick.

Jmorphman

Re: Transgenders now allowed to compete in Miss Universe Pageant
#75  April 12, 2012, 04:51:06 am
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<3Chrono_WifeXOXO said, April 12, 2012, 04:42:34 am
Seriously? Really offensive racist jokes. It was still funny as hell. I'm not sure why there's any confusion here.
:stare:

I don't think anyone would ever say that the show is racist. It uses racial humor yes, but that in and of itself is not racist.

kakkoii superhero

Re: Transgenders now allowed to compete in Miss Universe Pageant
#76  April 12, 2012, 05:09:04 am
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There are other ways to celebrate her new self as a legitimate woman, without being controversial and attention seeking to the whole world, trying to force other people to deal or modified the rule of some event for personal satisfaction, it is one thing to be a post op transgender to get accepted in society and try to push herself into miss universe, it won't bring her nowhere other than being highlighted as a "that transgender who tried to be miss universe" instead, while being quietly blend into society with a new start, nobody would have guessed.
So saying this is for the sake of being accepted by society as a woman is bullshit, this way she only want to prove that as a transgender she could be better than real woman, she is proud to be transgender that can compete in the same stage as real women, not because she want to be acknowledge as real woman.

Somebody has to be extremely naive, ignorant or idiot for not expecting the miss universe organization won't check her background, especially when she also entered transexual pageant several years before, and that it won't bait the media, and that the whole world would forever see her as transgender, a controversial one.

appearing in a tv talk show like Oprah or whatever would be million times better if being accepted as a woman is what she truly seeking for.   

Cobra Caddie

Re: Transgenders now allowed to compete in Miss Universe Pageant
#77  April 12, 2012, 05:33:57 am
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....She got the rules changed. How could she have gotten nowhere when she broke ground and changed rules? Now transgendered women can compete in Miss Universe. What she did benefits others who now can follow in her footsteps.

Both of us have spoken for her intentions though, and I think we're wrong to do so. But I spoke about it based on my experienced with transgendered women, and they have wanted to be accepted as women. And are discouraged when they're constantly reminded that they never will be because of people like you.

You're right though. No one should ever follow their dreams or attempt to become famous or successful. ::)

kakkoii superhero

Re: Transgenders now allowed to compete in Miss Universe Pageant
#78  April 12, 2012, 06:18:14 am
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Caddie said, April 12, 2012, 05:33:57 am
....But I spoke about it based on my experienced with transgendered women, and they have wanted to be accepted as women. And are discouraged when they're constantly reminded that they never will be because of people like you.

You're right though. No one should ever follow their dreams or attempt to become famous or successful. ::)

Quote
So saying this is for the sake of being accepted by society as a woman is bullshit, this way she only want to prove that as a transgender she could be better than real woman, she is proud to be transgender that can compete in the same stage as real women, not because she want to be acknowledge as real woman.

Somebody has to be extremely naive, ignorant or idiot for not expecting the miss universe organization won't check her background, especially when she also entered transexual pageant several years before, and that it won't bait the media, and that the whole world would forever see her as transgender, a controversial one.

Quote
appearing in a tv talk show like Oprah or whatever would be million times better if being accepted as a woman is what she truly seeking for.
seems like I have to repeat myself since you choose not to read before accusing "people like me"


Cobra Caddie

Re: Transgenders now allowed to compete in Miss Universe Pageant
#79  April 12, 2012, 06:23:51 am
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I did read that and was explaining, based on my experience, why I think you're wrong about that. That transgender women, from my experience, want being a transgender woman to mean that they are a full woman.

Plus she and all transgendered women can now compete in the biggest beauty pageant in the world, in a contest designed for women. Thanks to her. So...I guess that's kinda like being accepted as a women. But nope, it's all selfish and she just wanted to be a star, right? And wanting to be a star is a bad thing I guess.

And yes, people like you. People who think she should just go compete in some transgendered competition with her OWN kind instead of forcing themselves into places where they don't belong and ruining things for everyone!
Last Edit: April 12, 2012, 06:51:20 am by Caddie

Rajaa Retired

Re: Transgenders now allowed to compete in Miss Universe Pageant
#80  April 12, 2012, 06:40:58 am
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According to Navetsea, no one should fight for their rights. We should all let shit happen for the sake of blending in and not causing too much trouble.
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