Alpa-San said, June 22, 2012, 08:53:08 pm

Or perhaps it's because I know the difference between a good and a bad marvel vs capcom character and you don't.

No, you're just being picky.

Alpa-San said, June 22, 2012, 08:53:08 pm

You know, since, I actually have a good enough idea as to how Marvel vs Capcom works to know that using the EoH template guarantees that your character cannot be good you are seriously better off making your character from scratch.

Okay, then. Tell us what exactly is WRONG with it, then. Saying "it sucks" or "It uses a template" doesn't say anything.

Alpa-San said, June 22, 2012, 08:53:08 pm

I also know my basic fighting game fundamentals enough to know this is not how you do a super

So a Mugen Character doesn't do a quarter life-bar's worth of damage every super, so that means it's poorly coded. This character's got enough moves and combo-potential to make up for his lack of power without being cheap.

Alpa-San said, June 22, 2012, 08:53:08 pm

"Not perfect" does not excuse that it's poorly coded in my opinion.

Also, constantly saying it's poorly coded without post WHY it's poorly coded won't help someone get better at making MUGEN characters. Have you ever tried criticism?

MugoUrth said, June 22, 2012, 09:17:13 pm

Alpa-San said, June 22, 2012, 08:53:08 pm

Or perhaps it's because I know the difference between a good and a bad marvel vs capcom character and you don't.

No, you're just being picky.

Alpa-San said, June 22, 2012, 08:53:08 pm

You know, since, I actually have a good enough idea as to how Marvel vs Capcom works to know that using the EoH template guarantees that your character cannot be good you are seriously better off making your character from scratch.

Okay, then. Tell us what exactly is WRONG with it, then. Saying "it sucks" or "It uses a template" doesn't say anything.

Alpa-San said, June 22, 2012, 08:53:08 pm

I also know my basic fighting game fundamentals enough to know this is not how you do a super

So a Mugen Character doesn't do a quarter life-bar's worth of damage every super, so that means it's poorly coded. This character's got enough moves and combo-potential to make up for his lack of power without being cheap.

Alpa-San said, June 22, 2012, 08:53:08 pm

"Not perfect" does not excuse that it's poorly coded in my opinion.

Also, constantly saying it's poorly coded without post WHY it's poorly coded won't help someone get better at making MUGEN characters. Have you ever tried criticism?

Take it from me. Just give up now. Look up Rogue's topic here to see how well this works out. I'm sure someone will give useful critique soon enough.

It has more to do with the fact that he doesn't have any GOOD reason as to why it sucks so bad?

What are my counter-arguments? Well, sue me, I like it. I think it's well balanced, it's fun to play as, it's not overpowering yet you can still kick butt with it, yet it still takes skill to use. Sure, you COULD spam projectiles if you're a noob, but they're not infinite trapping projectiles. I thought his gameplay, overall, was pretty well made.

Also, in a lot of forums I go to, the people their complain that the people at Mugen Fighters Guild aren't exactly the Mugen Exports they claim to be. I've made several reasons as to why I like the character, but I have yet to hear any actual reasons as to why Alpa doesn't like it.

The hell you talking about? Arpa clearly showed GOOD reason why it sucks so bad.

Would these forums happen to be CvG or IMT?

Seriously, respect to be respected, MugoUrth. If you find that character is good, no problem. If someone else find it bad, okey, too. You can't make someone likes the character you like. Also, Arpa is well-known for make good critics to characters...

Unless you're MugenPlayer21 and don't want to hear criticism about your character

I can say you by personal experience: EoH template not just isn't accurate to MVC games, also plays bad in MUGEN, has a lot of infinites, overuses MVC2 elements (A LOT) and has other major flaws that make everything created under this template in a big NONO. In YouTube there're a lot of videos about characters with this template (since IMT's MVC fullgame to new creators making chars with this) showing how bad they are, even various users here got videos about that, Arpa included... who also made a joke character (MVC EoH C.Evil Ryu) who reveals all the flaws it has this template.

Resuming, EoH is simply bad and any char made with this template is a good reason to stay away from it

MugoUrth said, June 22, 2012, 10:26:47 pm

Because "it uses a quote-on-quote flawed template" and "it's not real MvC style" are real reasons.

Well, it's just that at this point the EoH template has been so picked apart that no one really sees the need to restate exactly why it's bad. Basara did a pretty good job here explaining why.

MugoUrth said, June 22, 2012, 10:13:02 pm

Also, in a lot of forums I go to, the people their complain that the people at Mugen Fighters Guild aren't exactly the Mugen Experts they claim to be.

I don't think anyone is claiming to be a MUGEN expert; instead I think what we have here (in this particular thread) are people very familiar with MvC, people who know how MvC plays and how characters based on that style of gameplay should play like if they are to be labeled "MvC". Characters made using the EoH template are, more often than not, pretty bad. They play somewhat like MvC, but only on the surface. If one probes deeply, they'll find EoH characters very lacking. MvC is probably one of the hardest gameplay styles to emulate, because there are so many things going on at once.

MugoUrth said, June 22, 2012, 10:26:47 pm

Actually, no. MFFA, for starters.

Mugen Free for all? Isn't that the place with the little kids who worship any character based on a cartoon regardless of how bad it is?

Those guys have no right to be calling out people as not being Mugen experts(which quite honestly, is rather amusing in itself), because they sure as hell aren't.

I know I recall MFFA from somewhere and usually when I do, it's somewhere bad.

At any rate, I'm actually quite interested in these other places you mention.

I know you said not to derail but I have to call darkflare out on this.

DF the amazing roster critic. I'd seriously like to know why you care what this guy thinks and why it's alright for you to poke at other people's standards, but when they poke at yours it's not good. I think "Great standards bro." goes both ways at this point.

Also, out of curiousity, I'll try this out. Look for feedback here in a minute.

I'm not going to bend my words just to look nice, I'm not going to sugarcoat anything I say. I say what's on my mind and I say it how it is. I don't care if I look like a hypocrite, irrational, rude, etc when I do.

I think most people know by now that, as an IMT forum member, I tend to stand up for them. I really only have a few things to say on this one though:

First, I understand what MugoUrth is getting at but also what everyone else is talking about. I too feel that the character is acceptable to a degree and on the right path. I've gotten plenty of bad 'MvC-styled' characters in the past that DIDN'T use the IMT template and were worse off than anything using the template thus far (CvG's Nova for instance...though I'm sure a lot of MFG usuals will say that they are equally as bad...)

This, however, brings me to my second point/suggestion/inquiry...I think we all take the 'MvC' titling too seriously. Well, at least I know I don't. When I see 'MvC' I basically expect loose comboing, airial raves and two button hypers (d,df,f+PP for example)...now maybe that is just me but I think if more people looked at it like that it would cause a lot LESS arguments (especially here and at IMT) over the acceptability of MvC titles creations. Now I'm not saying that one shouldn't have their own judgements on such things, just a suggestion to maybe look at it in a different light. This is probably what most other mugen players think of when they see MvC and why they get on the defensive of said characters and creators...just an observation. This also goes for other character titlings: GG, MK, CvS, MvC...the list goes on. If you look at it as a general playstyle and not a specific playstyle you may see what other people are seeing and how these arguments can maybe go differently.

What do you guys think? Does this make sense at all? Cause this is how I see things...

P.S. Forgot the inquiry...it was simply an add-on to my above theory...if you feel a character should be PRECISE to MvC gameplay, what should one label the char as then, if it is in fact as I stated above, a general MvC-styled char? Custom maybe? I think it's labeled as such more to appeal to those looking for chars that PLAY similarly to MvC (generally I mean)...like I am putting a game together for some friends of mine that don't know jack about Mugen...they like MvC so I am getting characters that play similarly to that series. Doesn't have to be precise, just similar to the style (like Infinite's creations). My only stip. on them is that they not be broken and OP...so for instance Xslaught's Sentinel had to go...did too much damage and I don't know how to fix attack damage. So I opted to get ER's instead which is much more balanced. Kong's creations are definitely a NO-NO...but I like SD's chars as they are nice additions to the comic universe in Mugen...even though some are unfinished...CvG has made a few DC chars that are actually OK so I've added them...but you see where I'm going with this. What should one title a char that isn't EXACTLY MvC but uses it's basic theories? This is mainly to those that really feel that the title be applied only to those that strictly stick to the MvC standards and gameplay...

This, however, brings me to my second point/suggestion/inquiry...I think we all take the 'MvC' titling too seriously. Well, at least I know I don't. When I see 'MvC' I basically expect loose comboing, airial raves and two button hypers (d,df,f+PP for example)...now maybe that is just me but I think if more people looked at it like that it would cause a lot LESS arguments (especially here and at IMT) over the acceptability of MvC titles creations. Now I'm not saying that one shouldn't have their own judgements on such things, just a suggestion to maybe look at it in a different light. This is probably what most other mugen players think of when they see MvC and why they get on the defensive of said characters and creators...just an observation. This also goes for other character titlings: GG, MK, CvS, MvC...the list goes on. If you look at it as a general playstyle and not a specific playstyle you may see what other people are seeing and how these arguments can maybe go differently.

What do you guys think? Does this make sense at all? Cause this is how I see things...

P.S. Forgot the inquiry...it was simply an add-on to my above theory...if you feel a character should be PRECISE to MvC gameplay, what should one label the char as then, if it is in fact as I stated above, a general MvC-styled char? Custom maybe? I think it's labeled as such more to appeal to those looking for chars that PLAY similarly to MvC (generally I mean)...like I am putting a game together for some friends of mine that don't know jack about Mugen...they like MvC so I am getting characters that play similarly to that series. Doesn't have to be precise, just similar to the style (like Infinite's creations). My only stip. on them is that they not be broken and OP...so for instance Xslaught's Sentinel had to go...did too much damage and I don't know how to fix attack damage. So I opted to get ER's instead which is much more balanced. Kong's creations are definitely a NO-NO...but I like SD's chars as they are nice additions to the comic universe in Mugen...even though some are unfinished...CvG has made a few DC chars that are actually OK so I've added them...but you see where I'm going with this. What should one title a char that isn't EXACTLY MvC but uses it's basic theories? This is mainly to those that really feel that the title be applied only to those that strictly stick to the MvC standards and gameplay...