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Clone Koakuma by Daniel9999999GMC updated 8/27/13 (Read 13952 times)

Started by Ricepigeon, June 02, 2013, 04:19:14 am
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Clone Koakuma by Daniel9999999GMC updated 8/27/13
New #1  June 02, 2013, 04:19:14 am
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<<-- Updated 09/14/14

You limit yourself so badly when you try to avoid variables. When you get over your fear of the "complexity" of variables, you will find yourself in a better place: A beautiful world where coding is actually fun.
Last Edit: August 28, 2013, 06:00:07 am by Ricepigeon
Re: Clone Koakuma by Daniel9999999GMC released
#2  June 02, 2013, 10:34:42 am
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Uhm...what's up with the stars? Or that 1UP Baloon from Donkey Kong Country? Or that HUD?
And what exactly makes this Koakuma a clone?
I make characters RP-styled (Current WIP: Marisa):
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Re: Clone Koakuma by Daniel9999999GMC released
#3  June 03, 2013, 12:37:02 am
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Uhm...what's up with the stars? Or that 1UP Baloon from Donkey Kong Country? Or that HUD?
And what exactly makes this Koakuma a clone?

Some silly backstory from her readme.

Also, all of her normals have the exact same frame advantage (+2) on hit and block with the exception of her crouching hard kicks.

<<-- Updated 09/14/14

You limit yourself so badly when you try to avoid variables. When you get over your fear of the "complexity" of variables, you will find yourself in a better place: A beautiful world where coding is actually fun.
Re: Clone Koakuma by Daniel9999999GMC released
#4  June 03, 2013, 04:37:44 am
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Also, all of her normals have the exact same frame advantage (+2) on hit and block with the exception of her crouching hard kicks.

Hello, this is Daniel speaking. Can I ask a question regarding said frame advantages? Which numbers would you consider fair on them? (For all Kicks and Punches) For all this time I've been thinking the normals should be the safest, but I never got a numeric answer regarding those. Thanks in advance!

By the way, this is an update that addresses a stupid oversight from my part. http://www.mediafire.com/?sgdfdth2p8tv3o7
Last Edit: June 03, 2013, 04:58:32 am by Koa-Devil
Re: Clone Koakuma by Daniel9999999GMC released
#5  June 03, 2013, 05:42:45 am
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Depends on the attacks mostly. If you want a rough guideline, lighter attacks are usually safe on both hit and block, while heavy attacks tend to be unsafe (frame adv wise) on both hit and block, with medium attacks somewhere in between.

Again, it depends mostly on the character as well as game system you're trying to emulate. Some games have identical frame advantage for both hit and block (SSF2T to name one). Also deviates depending on how fast or slow the startup time for the attack is.

Also I'm only noticing now that all of C.Koa's normals have no priority to them. I'm not talking about the priority values in the hitdef, those should all be set to 4,hit or removed entirely unless its a grab move. I'm talking about her hitbox placement. It looks like you're trying to emulate CF63&1/3's system and while I'll admit I haven't touched the game, I doubt the hitboxes for the character's normals were like that.

     Posted: June 03, 2013, 05:44:21 am
Updated the link in the first post since you mentioned it just now.

<<-- Updated 09/14/14

You limit yourself so badly when you try to avoid variables. When you get over your fear of the "complexity" of variables, you will find yourself in a better place: A beautiful world where coding is actually fun.
Re: Clone Koakuma by Daniel9999999GMC updated
#6  June 03, 2013, 06:35:22 am
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Depends on the attacks mostly. If you want a rough guideline, lighter attacks are usually safe on both hit and block, while heavy attacks tend to be unsafe (frame adv wise) on both hit and block, with medium attacks somewhere in between.

Again, it depends mostly on the character as well as game system you're trying to emulate. Some games have identical frame advantage for both hit and block (SSF2T to name one). Also deviates depending on how fast or slow the startup time for the attack is.

Also I'm only noticing now that all of C.Koa's normals have no priority to them. I'm not talking about the priority values in the hitdef, those should all be set to 4,hit or removed entirely unless its a grab move. I'm talking about her hitbox placement. It looks like you're trying to emulate CF63&1/3's system and while I'll admit I haven't touched the game, I doubt the hitboxes for the character's normals were like that.

Many thanks! Well, as of now, the f-adv. for the moves are as follows:
Standing:
Light P/K = +2 (both guard and hit); Med P = -2 (hit), -3 (guard); Strong P = -4,-6; Medium K = -3,-5; Strong K = -5,-7
Crouching:
Light P/K = +2,+2; Med P = -3,-5; Strong P = -10 (guard only is mentioned as it's a knockdown move); Med K = -4,-6 ;Strong K = -12 (guard)

I also changed the hittimes in a few specials that required the frame Advantage fixing. (Swerving Sword and Devilish Dash)

About the lack of priority.. I guess it's my fault on being paranoid with oversized attack boxes, I guess I'll try to put some more area according to her movement. In CF63&1/3 the hitboxes also lacked area coverage, sometimes even missing the target completely... I guess I should take more account into that.

Once again, many thanks!
Re: Clone Koakuma by Daniel9999999GMC updated
#7  June 03, 2013, 05:57:23 pm
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Many thanks! Well, as of now, the f-adv. for the moves are as follows:
Standing:
Light P/K = +2 (both guard and hit); Med P = -2 (hit), -3 (guard); Strong P = -4,-6; Medium K = -3,-5; Strong K = -5,-7
Crouching:
Light P/K = +2,+2; Med P = -3,-5; Strong P = -10 (guard only is mentioned as it's a knockdown move); Med K = -4,-6 ;Strong K = -12 (guard)

Not too familiar with CF's system but most fighters typically have enough frame advantage on their jabs to allow for links to her other normals: just long enough so that you can link another jab at the exact moment a jab ends and it'll still count as a combo, but short enough to avoid infinites.

Also noticing her medium and heavy attacks have something like 12/17 frames of startup as well.

Oh, also forgot to mention thats punches and kicks of equal strength (that is, standing, crouching, and jumping light punch) generally use identical hittimes. The only thing that makes the difference in frame advantage is the amount of recovery frames.

Quote
About the lack of priority.. I guess it's my fault on being paranoid with oversized attack boxes, I guess I'll try to put some more area according to her movement. In CF63&1/3 the hitboxes also lacked area coverage, sometimes even missing the target completely... I guess I should take more account into that.
Once again, many thanks!

To me it sounded more like trying to avoid the whole "infinite priority" thing, wasnt referring to the area coverage so much.

<<-- Updated 09/14/14

You limit yourself so badly when you try to avoid variables. When you get over your fear of the "complexity" of variables, you will find yourself in a better place: A beautiful world where coding is actually fun.
Re: Clone Koakuma by Daniel9999999GMC updated
#8  June 03, 2013, 08:07:41 pm
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Not too familiar with CF's system but most fighters typically have enough frame advantage on their jabs to allow for links to her other normals: just long enough so that you can link another jab at the exact moment a jab ends and it'll still count as a combo, but short enough to avoid infinites.


Neutralized all jabs F. Advantage to 0 in that case just to be sure.


Oh, also forgot to mention thats punches and kicks of equal strength (that is, standing, crouching, and jumping light punch) generally use identical hittimes. The only thing that makes the difference in frame advantage is the amount of recovery frames.


Yeah, the thing is I noticed C. Koa's strength and ease to combo mostly has to do with the kicks, so I made them slightly riskier for a quick attack to cut in.


To me it sounded more like trying to avoid the whole "infinite priority" thing, wasnt referring to the area coverage so much.


I guess this was because of what Elecbyte used to repeat often about the whole blue always over red, though I noticed things have apparently changed since actual fighting games tend to give some little uncovered Red CLSN boxes.


Is there any other little problems I could address as for the moment?
Re: Clone Koakuma by Daniel9999999GMC updated
#9  June 03, 2013, 08:23:39 pm
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Neutralized all jabs F. Advantage to 0 in that case just to be sure.

Only problem with that now is now she won't be able to link anything from her jabs, including another jab.

I'm noticing alot of her attacks seem to have taken influence from Patchouli and Remilia. Perhaps using these as reference may help?:

http://hisouten.koumakan.jp/wiki/Patchouli_Knowledge/Normal_Moves
http://hisouten.koumakan.jp/wiki/Remilia_Scarlet/Normal_Moves
http://wiki.mizuumi.net/w/Immaterial_and_Missing_Power/Patchouli_Knowledge#Frame_Data
http://wiki.mizuumi.net/w/Immaterial_and_Missing_Power/Remilia_Scarlet#Frame_Data

EDIT: May wanna look at Tenshi as well since it seems the original sprite artist used her as a base for some attacks as well.

Doesn't have to be exact but the overall feel should still be the same. Also I can't think of any fighting game that uses the whole "wrongblock" system since Touhou fighters use this instead of overheads & low attacks.

Quote
I guess this was because of what Elecbyte used to repeat often about the whole blue always over red, though I noticed things have apparently changed since actual fighting games tend to give some little uncovered Red CLSN boxes.

Rule of thumb is if you're able to get hitbox data from the source game to use that instead of anything else. Since Koakuma obviously wasn't in any fighting game, you can approximate the hitboxes of similar attacks she shares with Patchy and Remi since they do exist in actual fighters.

If all else fails, then you can judge the hitboxes for the attacks on a case-by-case basis.

<<-- Updated 09/14/14

You limit yourself so badly when you try to avoid variables. When you get over your fear of the "complexity" of variables, you will find yourself in a better place: A beautiful world where coding is actually fun.
Re: Clone Koakuma by Daniel9999999GMC updated
#10  June 03, 2013, 10:57:32 pm
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Only problem with that now is now she won't be able to link anything from her jabs, including another jab.


She still can, as her jabs can be cancelled into themselves, this is something I forgot to document in the readme. I tested her out and she's able to still chain attacks just fine.


Doesn't have to be exact but the overall feel should still be the same. Also I can't think of any fighting game that uses the whole "wrongblock" system since Touhou fighters use this instead of overheads & low attacks.


Changed some of the matching attacks' hitboxes in these cases.


Rule of thumb is if you're able to get hitbox data from the source game to use that instead of anything else. Since Koakuma obviously wasn't in any fighting game, you can approximate the hitboxes of similar attacks she shares with Patchy and Remi since they do exist in actual fighters.


Understood and in mind for every next creation I may make from a game.


Well I have been playing around with most of these suggestions and put them up as I'd still need a second opinion regarding them:

http://www.mediafire.com/?d4yajb82yer81mf

Update list:
   Changed a few frame advantages here and there, mainly for her normal and strong moves. As well as her aerial moves.
   Some special moves are slightly quicker in execution.
   Added a bit more of initial velocity displacement on Continum Charge.
   Added a tiny bit of more physical priority to some moves. Mainly trying to do similar hitboxes on some moves to her other counterparts with similar attacks.
   Added victory port (9000,2) by yours truly
   Fixed Air vels and juggling regarding Triple Aura.
   Moved Insane Combo's command detection lower than all the other super moves.
Last Edit: June 03, 2013, 11:27:28 pm by Koa-Devil
Re: Clone Koakuma by Daniel9999999GMC updated
#11  June 17, 2013, 03:06:12 am
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C. Koa has been Updated Today:

Updated:

   Decided to get rid of the "KI" system, everything else in the character such as the insane combo stays though.
   Projectile is less safe the farther you throw it.
   Weak Aerial Aura is not safe anymore.
   Added a provisional AI.
   Cropped All Sprite Work.
   Added Super Portraits.
   Some Velocities Changed.

Link:

http://www.mediafire.com/?xru3j75bed0agy2



Also sorry for asking this again, but does someone have a good voice for her? Besides the voice that was on the original Koakuma by Som that is. I'd be glad if you guys gave me a good voice for her, thanks in advance.

I'd also be glad the topic could be moved to the main WinMUGEN releases board. Could somebody do that please? :)
Re: Clone Koakuma by Daniel9999999GMC updated
#12  June 17, 2013, 03:30:48 pm
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Also sorry for asking this again, but does someone have a good voice for her? Besides the voice that was on the original Koakuma by Som that is. I'd be glad if you guys gave me a good voice for her, thanks in advance.
Som's Koakuma has a voice? Did I missed an update or something? The version of Som's Koa that I have doesn't have a voice at all.
I make characters RP-styled (Current WIP: Marisa):
http://mugenguild.com/forum/topics/marisarp-150600.0.html
Touhou database (by Ryouchi):
http://mugenfreeforall.com/index.php?/topic/8257-touhou-project/
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Re: Clone Koakuma by Daniel9999999GMC updated
#13  June 17, 2013, 07:09:33 pm
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Som's Koakuma has a voice? Did I missed an update or something? The version of Som's Koa that I have doesn't have a voice at all.

Yes she does, it's activated by fiddling on her -2 State in Koakuma_05_WatchDog.st:

Code:
[State -2, VarSet]
Type       = VarSet
Trigger1   = RoundState = [0,1]
Trigger2   = (var(15)=1)
var(5)     = 0 ;[‰Šú’l0] <--- Setting this to 1 turns on her voice.
Re: Clone Koakuma by Daniel9999999GMC updated
#14  June 19, 2013, 09:25:01 pm
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Updated C. Koa again fixing a glitch that nobody noticed, even me with the AI (required pressing two buttons at once other than x+y):

http://www.mediafire.com/?dudhzcvd1a78nca

The glitch was just an oversight with the Winane AI template by my mistake.
Re: Clone Koakuma by Daniel9999999GMC updated
#15  June 20, 2013, 12:42:11 am
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<<-- Updated 09/14/14

You limit yourself so badly when you try to avoid variables. When you get over your fear of the "complexity" of variables, you will find yourself in a better place: A beautiful world where coding is actually fun.
Clone Koakuma by Sanae63 updated 19/07/13 (Check Last Post for the update)
#16  July 20, 2013, 02:14:04 am
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Whoa it's been a LONG while since I ever updated something recent, but here it is, I've continued updating this character and here's what it's been done:

Spoiler: The Update's contents in a nutshell (click to see content)

Screenies: (Courtesy of @C.A.N)

Spoiler: How do I put the game in? (click to see content)

The link:

http://www.mediafire.com/?le445qj0lwhxm7r

@Ricepigeon: Hope it's not so much to ask if I ask you to update the first post :)

Xan

Re: Clone Koakuma by Daniel9999999GMC updated 6/19/13
#17  July 20, 2013, 02:31:33 am
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Nice to know you finally got around to releasing her update. :)
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Re: Clone Koakuma by Daniel9999999GMC updated 7/19/13
#18  July 20, 2013, 03:52:08 am
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1st page updated as requested, plus the little extra thing we discussed on Skype.

<<-- Updated 09/14/14

You limit yourself so badly when you try to avoid variables. When you get over your fear of the "complexity" of variables, you will find yourself in a better place: A beautiful world where coding is actually fun.
Re: Clone Koakuma by Daniel9999999GMC updated 7/19/13
#19  July 20, 2013, 09:11:46 am
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Maybe it's me, but it does seem that she gains meter at a rather quick rate.

Send me a PM if you decide to add me on PSN, so I don't mistake you for a random Friend whore.
Re: Clone Koakuma by Daniel9999999GMC updated 7/19/13
#20  July 20, 2013, 09:19:22 am
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Maybe it's me, but it does seem that she gains meter at a rather quick rate.

She kinda does now that I notice, in the game I originally had in mind when making her gameplay, 7 special moves gave out 1 bar, regardless of variant. I guess I should make it 9 or 10
Re: Clone Koakuma by Daniel9999999GMC updated 7/19/13
#21  July 21, 2013, 10:38:16 am
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You gave blocking restrictions to her item throws? You don't do that with projectile moves.

Send me a PM if you decide to add me on PSN, so I don't mistake you for a random Friend whore.
Re: Clone Koakuma by Daniel9999999GMC updated 7/19/13
#22  July 21, 2013, 11:00:19 am
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You gave blocking restrictions to her item throws? You don't do that with projectile moves.

You mean how you can't block the projectile low and how you can't block the barrel variant while rolling down high? Dunno, it makes sense to me since the projectile attacks from air and the barrel sweeps down opponents.

      Posted: July 21, 2013, 11:23:28 am
Disregard that, just changed it to be blocked low, what stays is the barrel, due to 1/4th chance, use of weaker version to get it rolling, and advantage that it has to be blocked low, exposing opponent for an airbone attack. I'm probably not releasing this little fix for the moment though, will have it next on a meatier update.
Last Edit: July 21, 2013, 11:24:40 am by Sanae63
Re: Clone Koakuma by Daniel9999999GMC updated 7/19/13
#23  July 21, 2013, 11:26:12 am
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Who the real author this char ? Sanae63 or Daniel999999 (Now i`m so confuse)
Re: Clone Koakuma by Daniel9999999GMC updated 7/19/13
#24  July 21, 2013, 11:27:31 am
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Re: Clone Koakuma by Daniel9999999GMC updated 7/19/13
#25  July 21, 2013, 11:29:34 am
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Ok! Sanae ,Can u make it to 1.0 version? I can`t play it with 1.1 .(Sorry if something wrong!)
Re: Clone Koakuma by Daniel9999999GMC updated 7/19/13
#26  July 21, 2013, 11:30:10 am
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Re: Clone Koakuma by Daniel9999999GMC updated 7/19/13
#27  July 21, 2013, 11:34:35 am
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I`m refer to 1.0 not 1.1.
Re: Clone Koakuma by Daniel9999999GMC updated 7/19/13
#28  July 21, 2013, 09:22:27 pm
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You gave blocking restrictions to her item throws? You don't do that with projectile moves.

You mean how you can't block the projectile low and how you can't block the barrel variant while rolling down high? Dunno, it makes sense to me since the projectile attacks from air and the barrel sweeps down opponents.

So does Ryu's hadouken and you can block it low or high. Terry's power wave travels on the ground and can also be blocked low or high.

I`m refer to 1.0 not 1.1.

It works on 1.0

Send me a PM if you decide to add me on PSN, so I don't mistake you for a random Friend whore.

Xan

Re: Clone Koakuma by Daniel9999999GMC updated 7/19/13
#29  July 21, 2013, 09:33:12 pm
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@Darkflare:
Disregard that, just changed it to be blocked low, what stays is the barrel, due to 1/4th chance, use of weaker version to get it rolling, and advantage that it has to be blocked low, exposing opponent for an airbone attack. I'm probably not releasing this little fix for the moment though, will have it next on a meatier update.
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Re: Clone Koakuma by Daniel9999999GMC updated 7/19/13
#30  July 21, 2013, 09:36:26 pm
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So does Ryu's hadouken and you can block it low or high. Terry's power wave travels on the ground and can also be blocked low or high.

I was more refferring to the trayectory it flies, but after discussing it to my other friend I decided to change it.

I`m refer to 1.0 not 1.1.

My characters are compatible up to 1.0: I don't plan on to give compatibility to 1.1, given its alpha state and the fact that people still use Win here and there like Basara-Kun. I've yet to know how to make a Win and a 1.0 .def; but as of the moment I'd rather be fixing issues than worrying about compatibilty with the upcoming engine.
Re: Clone Koakuma by Daniel9999999GMC updated 7/19/13
#31  July 21, 2013, 10:03:32 pm
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Somebody calls me?? :P and well, I'm not the only one, DivineWolf, Antagonist, Mouser, Cybaster, DanielALOTOF9S (of course) and other creators we're still developing MUGEN stuff under WinM

Finally I played with the last version of Koa, I've to say it's more than I expected, great job with the lil' redhead :D I got some suggestions for her (and for Sanae, in extention):
-I would like to see a system more like in CF63 1/3, but you already stated you won't use that. But anyway I would like to see a Combo Opener move on Koa (charge <-, -> + punch/kick) as a normal move that allows you to get the opponent closer, in Sculptor's Cut (or 63 1/3 update), Interplay get off the KI combos, but still mantain the Combo Opener, it's a good move in general (Jim has the Dashing Elbow and works like heaven), you could add it to her (and Sanae) in a future ;)
-Apart of Combo Opener, a Combo Breaker could be useful, I made it in Jim when you got more than 4-5 hits and you can't get out (like super combo moves or against other KI chars), it's just the uppercut move doing that job
-More Muchael Buffer (the announcer) in the intros, wins or moves in general (not just with combo counter) would be awesome :D
-Maybe compatibility with other ClayFighters, like special states. I based my Jim in Shadowtak's CF chars, they got some special things to be considered ;)

That's all for now, I've to discover some other things in the char, but about her features not about bugs, the char it's just lovely. Keep going with her and Sanae :thumbsup:
Re: Clone Koakuma by Daniel9999999GMC updated 7/19/13
#32  July 21, 2013, 10:29:55 pm
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Somebody calls me?? :P and well, I'm not the only one, DivineWolf, Antagonist, Mouser, Cybaster, DanielALOTOF9S (of course) and other creators we're still developing MUGEN stuff under WinM

That's nice to hear to be honest. I thought i was the only one xD Also the guy in bold sucks. :3

-I would like to see a system more like in CF63 1/3, but you already stated you won't use that. But anyway I would like to see a Combo Opener move on Koa (charge <-, -> + punch/kick) as a normal move that allows you to get the opponent closer, in Sculptor's Cut (or 63 1/3 update), Interplay get off the KI combos, but still mantain the Combo Opener, it's a good move in general (Jim has the Dashing Elbow and works like heaven), you could add it to her (and Sanae) in a future ;)

Well if I recall correctly Sculptor's Cut removed some of the chars' opening moves, like Taffy's Sugar Rush or Bad Mr. Frosty's SNOW BLOWER. Save for the air attacks, which are universal openers. If I am to implement those I have to make sure of them only being used once per variant (strong, med, and weak), nothing too complicated though. I may consider another charge move for Koa to extend the combos. =)

-Apart of Combo Opener, a Combo Breaker could be useful, I made it in Jim when you got more than 4-5 hits and you can't get out (like super combo moves or against other KI chars), it's just the uppercut move doing that job

I think that should work via state detection (opponent not in states 3000 to 4999) and/or via hitattr detection (hitdefattr = SCA,NA,SA,NP,SP). I'll probably have to look on your Jim and borrow a few pieces of code if I can't get it to work though.

-More Muchael Buffer (the announcer) in the intros, wins or moves in general (not just with combo counter) would be awesome :D

How come I forgot about LET'S GET READY TO CRUMBLEEEEEEEEEE!!!!!! I reallu need to add that one of these days and You Win and Sorry, You lose one of these days.

-Maybe compatibility with other ClayFighters, like special states. I based my Jim in Shadowtak's CF chars, they got some special things to be considered ;)

I need to pay a bit of attention to that, and I still need to do a claytality, I need to really sit down one of these days and think of a way to get them dizzy for the Claytality without the use of the MK chars' method (The one with the big hitbox that gets them dizzy) because I remember it bugging out on me every once in a while XS. Perhaps targetstates on -3 with every hit-id should do the trick.

That's all for now, I've to discover some other things in the char, but about her features not about bugs, the char it's just lovely. Keep going with her and Sanae :thumbsup:

Thanks a lot once again man. I hope I can keep her up with not many problems. And good luck on your Scott Pilgrim char as well! :)
Re: Clone Koakuma by Daniel9999999GMC updated 7/19/13
#33  July 21, 2013, 11:05:42 pm
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@Darkflare:
Disregard that, just changed it to be blocked low, what stays is the barrel, due to 1/4th chance, use of weaker version to get it rolling, and advantage that it has to be blocked low, exposing opponent for an airbone attack. I'm probably not releasing this little fix for the moment though, will have it next on a meatier update.

And? Projectiles don't (normally) have guard restrictions

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Re: Clone Koakuma by Daniel9999999GMC updated 7/19/13
#34  July 21, 2013, 11:29:02 pm
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And? Projectiles don't (normally) have guard restrictions

Which is why I changed the guardflags on the main projectile to MA. What's not changed is the barrel (once it rolls on the ground) that spawns in a 1/4 chance having to be guarded low. Reason why is due to it's mentioned 1/4th chance and it's advantage on the player.
Re: Clone Koakuma by Daniel9999999GMC updated 7/19/13
#35  July 22, 2013, 12:17:16 am
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That's better.

Now fix the animation for standing to crouch and vice versa. They don't fluid right.

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Re: Clone Koakuma by Daniel9999999GMC updated 7/19/13
#36  July 22, 2013, 05:34:32 am
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Last Edit: July 24, 2013, 11:14:31 pm by Sanae63
Re: Clone Koakuma by Daniel9999999GMC updated 7/19/13
#37  July 24, 2013, 11:14:37 pm
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Re: Clone Koakuma by Daniel9999999GMC updated 27/8/13
#38  August 28, 2013, 02:13:38 am
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Xan

Re: Clone Koakuma by Daniel9999999GMC updated 7/19/13
#39  August 28, 2013, 02:18:53 am
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Nice to see you released this update. :)
MY YOUTUBE || MY TUMBLR

Xan is always lovable
Is finding MUGEN to be more enjoyable to play when you're not wearing clothes an underrated opinion?